Is it racist to fire a teacher for antisemitism?

[FrodosPet]

I am about to dive into some uncomfortable territory here. I would really appreciate some dialog, as opposed to auto-reactions.

Studies (as well as personal experience) indicates antisemitism is widespread in African American and Hispanic communities - even more so than the population in general.

http://www.adl.org/presrele/asus_12/4109_12.htm

For example, The Nation Of Islam, led by Minister Louis Farrakhan, is quite infamous for saying the same things said by recently fired Los Angeles teacher Patricia McAllister.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7123.shtml

Communities that should be united in the struggle for economic and social growth are divided and set against each other, to no one's advantage except those who gain power and privilege from this division.

My question is: rather than firing a teacher who holds views that are widespread among African Americans, and which could conceivably be used against many other teacher and other leaders, shouldn't we be engaging in a process of education and dialog?

[RZM]

1. Absolutely not

You don't get a pass for being an asshole just because of the color of your skin.

Education and dialogue are fine. But they aren't substitutes for calling somebody on their bullshit.

[Chorophyll]

4. +1

[applegrove]

26. +100

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. Several threads along these lines here recently an opinion is clearly divided

Unfortunately, they have already rolled off my log.

The teacher expressing anti gay sentiments outside of class is still employed. The one that expressed anti Jewish beliefs has been let go.

Most contracts have a "morals/community esteem/good behavior" clauses. There was a really good post about that recently that I can not find. Their unions do not appear to have not been fighting these firings. It is also interesting to note that schools are increasingly doing the same thing to students, claiming long arm jurisdiction over them as well.

There are those that are claiming its a violation of the teachers rights to be judged on outside legal activities. However, most contracts have a "morals/community esteem/good public behavior" clauses. Their unions do not appear to have not been fighting these firings. It is also interesting to note that schools are increasingly doing the same thing to students, claiming long arm jurisdiction over them as well.

I personally have mixed feelings on this

[slackmaster]

3. Only if the teacher happens to be African-American

:dunce:

[ZombieHorde]

6. Is that a joke? I can't tell anymore. nt

[Kurmudgeon]

5. Fire them for incompetence instead. They 're paid to teach the curriculum.

[MADem]

11. Naaah. Fire 'em for being racist fucks. You don't give out passes

because people happen to come from a minority group. Would you give an Asian a pass for behaving the same way?

[ZombieHorde]

7. Firing a teacher for antisemitism is not racist.

If someone is too dumb to figure out antisemitism is based on illusion, then they should not be teaching anyone anything.

views that are widespread among African Americans

Is there any evidence for this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Actually it has increased which is ironic given the history

Of the two communities.

Alas it is not just among AA... It is on the way up, it is in the air.

[FrodosPet]

14. This article is 4 years old, but nothing newer refutes it

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/5159_12.htm

African-Americans

The number of African-Americans with strong anti-Semitic beliefs continued to remain high and stable since 1992. The 2007 survey found that 32% of African-Americans hold strong anti-Semitic beliefs, more than three times more than the 10% for whites. In 1992 it was 37%; 1998 – 34%; 2002- 35%, 2005 – 36%. (graph)

"We continue to remain troubled and somewhat at a loss to understand why African-Americans consistently have such strong anti-Semitic propensities," said Mr. Foxman.

-------------------------------

This teacher's views, while repugnant, are not an outlier of what I have heard over the years. Spend some time on public transportation and you will hear similar comments.

[ZombieHorde]

18. 36%? That seems extremely high.

What would be causing so many people to be imbeciles? I would like to see a breakdown based on income. Perhaps the desperation of poverty is making people dumb.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. That's a good point. Anyone teaching who professes anti-semitic

beliefs clearly had a college education wasted upon him or herself. Certainly should prove that person is ipso facto unqualified to be teaching anyone anything, other than maybe Idiocy for Dummies 101.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Funny that you said that

You know who we're the allies of both during them civil rights movements? Them filthy Jews. :sarcasm:

So while on the one hand we need education I'd have to question whether this was the excuse used and there is more to the story. But education, definitely, needs to happen. But since the current POTUS was sworn in something happened and over racism is in vogue.

[MADem]

10. No, a racist is a racist. You don't get a "pass" if you're some race other than pale Euro pink. nt

[kiva]

12. Is is racist to fire a teacher for anti-African American statements?

Same thing.

Using your logic, if a white teacher made bigoted statements about blacks or Hispanics or Asians or another group it could be argued that since there are white leaders and teachers who are also prejudiced the teacher should not be fired or punished. Nope.

[snooper2]

13. Only if he or she is Finnish

:)

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Is it racist to fire a teacher for homophobia?

Homophobia is widespread in African American and Hispanic communities - even more so than the population in general.

[Gamow]

17. absurd.

[AngkorWot]

19. I'd say it's racist to think of black people as anti-semites.

[slackmaster]

21. That's not an answer to the question asked in the OP

Please try again.

[AngkorWot]

22. No.

[Major Nikon]

20. Tolerance doesn't require one to tolerate bigots

Patricia McAllister has a right to stand up and say whatever she wants. She also must live with the consequences of those statements. She got fired and she deserved to get fired, even more so since she is an educator. It's that simple. Her race makes absolutely no difference.

[SoDesuKa]

24. McAllister on "Zionist" Jews

Once again we see the equation between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. McAllister denounced "Zionist Jews" and was fired for it. She did not denounce Jews as such. This is not a trivial distinction, especially in view of the disgraceful way that Zionists have treated Palestinians over the years.



Don't say Zionism is racism

[Kurska]

27. No dice, if she had just said "zionist" she would have been fine.

It isn't right to call out an ethnic group for special criticism, no matter what adjective you throw in front of it. If I made a statement about "uppity blacks" or "radical homosexuals" would you defend me?

Of course not.

[Major Nikon]

29. There is no defense for her statement

Here it is in case you didn't see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMjm4LxFa1c

Just because she didn't use a racist word, doesn't mean her statement wasn't racist. Imagine if a teabagger gave an interview and said "those welfare queen blacks need to be run out of the country."

The statement would be equally racist for the same reasons.

There's no way her statement wasn't racist. This woman has no business teaching in any school until she gets her head screwed on straight.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Defending anti-Semitism.

Disgusting!

[SoDesuKa]

39. Defending Zionism

There is a track record here. Zionists have persecuted the Palestinians for decades.



Zionist track record in Gaza - disgusting!

[Behind the Aegis]

41. You obviously have no idea what Zionism is, which explains your defense of anti-Semitism.

I am not surprised.

ETA: Learn the difference between "zionist" and "Israeli." Also, take a further look at that teacher's comments and you will find, like most anti-Semitic POS scum, she is talking about JEWS. You do realize THAT is anti-Semitism, don't you?

[TheKentuckian]

23. Hell no it isn't racist to be rid of racist scum, whatever their race.

At some point inclusiveness slides into being amoral and devoid of any actual principles.

No way in hell this argument would be made if some neonazi was up to the same shenanigans.

Moral consistency and core values aren't flaws.

[Nye Bevan]

25. No. But it's racist to force a Jewish kid to be taught by an anti-Semitic teacher (nt)

[McCamy Taylor]

28. Dunno, but I do know only racists call Judaism a "race". It's a religion.

[Major Nikon]

30. She didn't say "Judaism", she said "Jews"

If someone calls Judaism a race that wouldn't be racism, that would be ignorance.

[Honeycombe8]

31. No, it's not racist to fire someone for bigoted statements. Regardless of

the teacher's race (white or black or Asian or whatever). And regardless of the group the person is bigoted against (white or black or Asian or whatever).

A person can believe anything he wants. He cannot SAY anything he wants, in any location he wants. Only SOME speech is protected by the First Amendment. But in addition to that, any business or profession or industry has the right to set certain standards about statements and behavior. For teachers, especially, who hold a special place in influencing youth, those standards are more rigorous than in some other professions. Teachers know this going into the profession.

It is not a defense to a bigoted statement to say, well, most other people I know of my race believe that same thing. I'm sure white people in the south who wore white sheets could've said the same thing.

[Starry Messenger]

32. Why is this POS thread still open?

[FrodosPet]

33. Because it is an important question

Various oppressed groups are pitted against each other. The roots and effects of these divisions need to receive attention in order to be corrected.

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

[Starry Messenger]

37. The question you led off with is bizarre and has nothing to do with oppression.

"Is it racist to fire someone for antisemitism? " The answer is no. And although it is certainly unfortunate that there is not uniform support among oppressed groups for each other, the majority of bigots are white straight people. The root and cause of the divisions is our economic system which pits all working people against each other in a fight over a tiny slice of pie.

I just don't get why you led off with the question of "Is it racist to fire someone for antisemitism?" What does that have to do with this other topic? Virulent bigots don't get a pass because of their racial identification.

[Downwinder]

35. Would you fire them for speaking against Muslims ?

Catholics?
Baptists?
Mormons?

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Yeah, if they're making bigoted statements publicly while identifying themselves as school district

employees.

Absolutely. You have the right to be a bigot in this country, you don't have a right to demand that a school district not fire you for making public statements to that effect.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. Racist no; but wrong if those views were kept of the classroom.

Teachers have a right to hold whatever opinions they choose, bigotted or otherwise, provided they keep those opinions strictly out of the classroom.

I don't know whether your claim that antisemitism is widespread among African-Americans and Hispanics is accurate, but either way it's irrelevant.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. If you make a public statement on camera and identify yourself as a school district employee

as this woman did, you're setting yourself up to be canned.

Same as if she was making vicious homophobic or racist statements.