Third U.S. Citizen Killed by Obama’s Yemen Drone Strikes was a 16-Year-Old Boy

[Bonobo]

Abdulrahman al-Awlaki

The United States has now killed three of its citizens in Yemen in the past month as a result of unmanned aerial strikes carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Following the deaths in late September of Anwar al-Awlaki, the U.S.-born cleric, and Samir Khan, an al-Qaeda propagandist from North Carolina, an American drone strike on October 14 killed Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, the 16-year-old son of the cleric. At the time, the U.S. government led the media to believe that Abdulrahman was at least 21 years old.

The al-Awlaki family released to the media a copy of Abdulrahman’s birth certificate, which shows he was born in Denver, Colorado, in 1995, to disprove the Obama administration’s assertion that he was a twenty-something militant. Relatives claim the son was killed while “barbecuing under the moonlight” with other teenagers, including his 17-year-old cousin, who was a Yemeni citizen.

Back on November 5, 2002, a CIA drone strike in Yemen killed another American citizen, Buffalo-born Kamal Derwish, because he was traveling in the same vehicle as the intended target, Abu Ali al-Harithi, a Yemeni accused of being part of the October 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole.

http://boingboing.net/2011/10/21/awlakis.html


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/family-hits-out-at-us-in-fury-at-fate-of-anwar-alawlakis-slain-son-2372514.html

Family hits out at US in fury at fate of Anwar al-Awlaki's slain son

The family of a American teenager killed in Yemen during a US attack – a week after his terrorist father also died in a US strike – has lashed out at reports that the young man was a militant.

Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, 16, who was born in Denver, was the son of Anwar al-Awlaki, one of America's most-wanted men, whom an unmanned drone obliterated with a rocket in Yemen last month.

Yet this week the young man's family, who said Abdulrahman left the US in 2002 when he moved to Yemen with his father, released a statement lashing out at the American media. The teenager's family "watched with surprise" as several newspapers and TV channels "twist the truth" about the young man," according to the statement. On the night of 14 October, the day Abdulrahman was killed by a US drone, he had "gone barbecuing under the moonlight" with his friends.

During his 2009 inaugural address, Barack Obama said that America must "reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals".

[Divine Discontent]

1. That's just awful........

Get it here now, or one of a million other designs! http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128659602907896843?rf=238107662556833486eping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128659602907896843?rf=238107662556833486

[Cid_B]

73. I agree.... dragging your son into a potential warzone is awful...

[WinkyDink]

80. So you think every Yemeni should leave his nation?

[Puregonzo1188]

81. "Potential warzone" is that the entire world since the US reserves the right to start

bombing any country at random?

[Divine Discontent]

84. I'm glad you look at the father's sins, and choose to specifically be callous and ignore the death.

the death of a boy with flippant sarcasm. Obviously, his dad's actions were horrible, but where is the compassion about a boy dying? Have you lost your sense of that?

[Cid_B]

87. Meh...

For me.. It's the same as if the father drug him across a major highway..

I don't blame the car that hit him. I blame the father...

[TheKentuckian]

105. According to official neocon doctrine adopted by the President, there is no place

on Earth that does not fit that definition.

[sabrina 1]

2. What have we become?

Rec'd to zero. How shameful. That poor family. I can understand their fury. These politicians have children of their own. I can only hope that the current uprisings against all of this around the Globe will finally put a stop to this tragic insanity.

:cry:

[Mimosa]

3. Some want us to become desensitised to the drone strikes.

And all the violence.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. What do you mean "politicians"

There's only one person under US constitutional law that can order a military attack.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

6. where is the evidence that his 'father took him to Yemen for jihad'?

I'm told it is 'secret'. Many people have been asking to see this evidence. This is beyond un-Constitutional. It is a crime. There are NO excuses for it.

Are in favor of the death penalty, now for a minor, without charges, without trial or conviction? What did this teenager do? Where are the charges, and do we give the POTUS the power to execute, even children now? It gets worse every day in this country.

As I said, 'what have we become'? All to protect one politician's reputation.

This is infuriating and frightening. Do you have children?

[bread_and_roses]

10. evidently all that and making jokes about the killing of minors too

"Besides, he gets an early crack at the virgins." saith the poster to whom you responded.

Unutterably depraved remark.

[sabrina 1]

13. I am glad I did not see that. Disgusting and depraved as you

said. There are no words. This place is beginning to remind me of those rightwing boards which so disgusted me I finally stopped even reading them, let alone participating on them. And to think when I came here it seemed like an oasis away from all that despicable cheering for death, torture and destruction!

[Mimosa]

22. Sabrina1, I'd missed you over the past few months

I've been here. I missed you. I thought you might have been TSed or just left. I felt better earlier tonight when I saw you were back.

YES, D.U. is reminding me of a certain right wing board I used to look at. Things have changed radically over the last year.

[sabrina 1]

82. Hi mimosa,

I have been around! But thank you, it's always good to see your intelligent comments! Things have changed, but in many ways for the better. I think maybe that is why we are seeing so much desperation. The American people are making me feel so hopeful and the polls supporting them are overwhelmingly in favor of what they are trying to do. Which only goes to show that it is a liberal country after all and the minority is not happy I guess. :-)

[Bonobo]

15. Depraved and as stupid and ignorant a remark as you ever will hear.

Sounds like Jersey Shore meets FR.

[Odin2005]

102. "Deleted" said WHAT!?!

:puke:

[Bonobo]

9. This. This is what we have on DU now. nt

[GreenArrow]

49. We've had it for a long time.

The above poster is a newbie, but there are posters -- some long timers -- with thousands of posts who make the same sort of comments daily. This place is increasingly a sewer.

[Youth Uprising]

50. I guess assholish comments like this are the new normal on DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x684498#684521

:puke:

Too bad I didn't join earlier when rational, compassionate, sane people where the majority on here.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

17. Just noticed your compassionate remark about the murder of a

US teenager. 'He gets an early crack at the virgins'. Do you listen to Rush Limbaugh by any chance? He too makes fun of people's religious beliefs, well of the beliefs of minorities.

I used to listen to him back when Bush was president until his disgusting remarks, like this one, which his ditto heads thought were hilarious, until I could not stomach it anymore.

But then again, why should we worry about an innocent teenager? Those drones of Obama's have been slaughtering children much younger than that.

[coalition_unwilling]

26. I'm putting you on my Ignore list for being such a racist douche - n/t

[xocet]

42. Your remarks are reprehensible. n/t

[AngkorWot]

5. Remember the Branch Davidians?

Clinton's Texan Tank Strikes ended up with a bunch of minors killed.

I myself blame the Branch Davidians, rather than Clinton.

Your mileage may very.

[LAGC]

7. I don't think that was ever Clinton's fault, more like Janet Reno's.

Reno in congressional testimony stated that she authorized the FBI assault on the Branch Davidians because of reports that Militia groups were enroute to Waco during the standoff "either to help Koresh or to attack him."

Those deaths are on her hands.

[Nevernose]

74. Well, hers and the people who soaked the building in kerosene

If we're going to blame people for the fire, we should probably start with the cult members who followed their orders to soak the building in gasoline in order to make sure everyone died rather than surrender. Janet Reno's culpability is somewhat less than that.

[Honeycombe8]

83. It was mainly the fault of the loony leader of the Davidians...the one who had sex with the kids....

and his loony followers.

[sabrina 1]

8. I blamed and still do, Clinton.

Another horrible crime committed against innocent children and you defend it? Soon it may be your neighbors, or who knows, if a Republican wins the WH and doesn't like you or your family, all he has to do now is call you a 'terrorist', no evidence, no charges, no trial.

You know what, we will deserve it if we do not oppose it now before it happens to someone WE love.

[AngkorWot]

11. My goodness.

In retrospect, I guess I should have known you would.

"before it happens to someone WE love."

Luck for me, none of my loved ones are cop-killing pedophiles and/or terrorists. You?

[sabrina 1]

20. Little children are cop killing pedophiles and/or terrorists?.

There simply are no words for what has been posted on this board in a futile attempt to defend the murder of American Citizens, including children today.

And thank for the compliment. I would hope that everyone would expect me to stand up for human rights, especially when they are innocent children. If you thought otherwise, I would be seriously worried about myself.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[coalition_unwilling]

33. Are any of your loved ones terrorists disguised as children? -n/t

[Bonobo]

12. Stupid, stupid analogy.

This kid was HUNTED by the US. He was killed weeks after his father was killed.

He was hunted down. A US citizen guilty of nothing.

[AngkorWot]

14. Actually no, they were targeting a senior Al Qaeda operative.

Also killed in the attack.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Exilednight]

38. The WH is tight lipped on who, exactly, they were targeting. They neither confirm no deny

that the kid was the target.

[sad sally]

41. The secrecy in this administration is incredible. Did you see this?

Two weeks after the U.S. killed American citizen Anwar Awlaki with a drone strike in Yemen — far from any battlefield and with no due process — it did the same to his 16-year-old son, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, ending the teenager’s life on Friday along with his 17-year-old cousin and seven other people. News reports, based on government sources, originally claimed that Awlaki’s son was 21 years old and an Al Qaeda fighter (needless to say, as Terrorist often means: “anyone killed by the U.S.”), but a birth certificate published by The Washington Post proved that he was born only 16 years ago in Denver. As The New Yorker‘s Amy Davidson wrote: “Looking at his birth certificate, one wonders what those assertions say either about the the quality of the government’s evidence — or the honesty of its claims — and about our own capacity for self-deception.” The boy’s grandfather said that he and his cousin were at a barbecue and preparing to eat when the U.S. attacked them by air and ended their lives. There are two points worth making about this:

(1) It is unknown whether the U.S. targeted the teenager or whether he was merely “collateral damage.” The reason that’s unknown is because the Obama administration refuses to tell us. Said the Post: “The officials would not discuss the attack in any detail, including who the target was.” So here we have yet again one of the most consequential acts a government can take — killing one of its own citizens, in this case a teenage boy — and the government refuses even to talk about what it did, why it did it, what its justification is, what evidence it possesses, or what principles it has embraced in general for such actions. Indeed, it refuses even to admit it did this, since it refuses even to admit that it has a drone program at all and that it is engaged in military action in Yemen. It’s just all shrouded in total secrecy.
---
(2) Every now and then it’s worth pausing to reflect on how often we talk about the killing of people by the U.S. Literally, the U.S. government is just continuously killing people in multiple countries around the world. Who else does that? Nobody — certainly nowhere near on this scale. The U.S. President expressly claims the power to target anyone he wants, anywhere in the world, for death, including his own citizens; he does it in total secrecy and with no oversight; and this power is not just asserted but routinely exercised. The U.S., over and over, eradicates people’s lives by the dozens from the sky, with bombs, with checkpoint shootings, with night raids — in far more places and far more frequently than any other nation or group on the planet. Those are just facts.
---
UPDATE: Those who believe evidence and transparency in such matters are unnecessary because the government under Obama — unlike under Bush — would never issue false claims about such things and can be trusted without accountability should review this and this.

http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/?du

[Exilednight]

43. Yep, read that this morning.

[Bonobo]

48. This DESERVES its own OP. Will you or should I? nt

[quickesst]

59. "The secrecy in this administration is incredible. Did you see this?

....reality check. I don't care if Kucinich becomes president, there will be secrecy concerning his administration, and their will be outrage if it is exposed. The observations and the feelings/opinions on the Obama admin will be repeated by mostly good well-intentioned liberals no matter who we call president. Such is the complexity, and at the same time, the absurdity of what the US government has become. Thanks.
quickesst

[sad sally]

61. I don't disagree with your conclusion - the US government has always

kept things from "we the people" for our own good - doesn't make it right. Some secrets are worse than others though - like secret hit lists.

[Tx4obama]

21. The TERRORISTS that he was hanging around with were the targets of the drone.

Moral of the story is, if you don't want to be blown up then do not hang around with Al Qaeda terrorists that have declared war with the USA.

[Bonobo]

23. So then your claim is it was a mistake? Then where is the apology?

Where is the regret? Where is the admission of error? Sounds like they are boasting of it if you read the air force times, etc.

[sabrina 1]

24. And where is the proof everyone has been asking for that

Al Awlaki was a terrorist? I noticed that WH spokesperson could not answer that question, but the question has not gone away. Now, it appears, it is 'secret'. Although there have been some revelations regarding how the POTUS became a judge, jury and executioner which are extremely disturbing to anyone who claimed that during the Bush years, that Constitutional rights were being destroyed by Bush.

I guess you supported Bush's claim that the President has the powers of a King then?

Is this what the Democratic Party now represents? No concern for the rule of law, for children they kill and then lie about their ages?

You DID see that the US lied about this teenager's age, didn't you? So clearly even they knew how wrong it was to kill a US teenager and try to use the excuses you just tried to use to justify it.

[Swede]

44. And what was the menu for the barbecue?

:shrug:

[kas125]

51. Where did you read or hear that he was "hanging around with

TERRORISTS" who were the real targets? Please provide links so we all can see who they were and why they deserved to be killed in our names.

[themadstork]

54. The terrorists, in this case,

are those who deployed the drone.

[MNBrewer]

16. Let's talk about current events

and not get distracted by red herring rhetorical tricks.

Shall we allow this type of behavior to happen going forward? I say no. Obama is making it very difficult for me to rationalize a vote for him in November so far.

[sabrina 1]

25. You and millions of other people of conscience.

These are the reasons I would never have considered voting for Bush.

[AngkorWot]

36. Anybody with a conscience is a proud Obama supporter.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

46. Anyone with a conscience does not allow themselves to

be led to support criminal activities regardless of who the leader is.

[Ikonoklast]

66. That goes for Al Qaida members, too, I take it?

[sabrina 1]

68. No, I love terrorists, didn't you know?

What an utterly ridiculous question usually asked only by Bush supporters long ago when he was doing what this administration is now doing and we on the left used to oppose it all.

Take whatever you want, I am not responsible for what foreign terrorists or foreign governments do. We are responsible for what is done in our name. Why has that become such a difficult concept all of a sudden for the 'left'? They used to get it back when Bush was president.

[GreenArrow]

57. nt

[AngkorWot]

58. Anybody with a conscience quickly deletes their posts?

Way to speak truth to power.

[GreenArrow]

60. Anyone with a conscience may delete his or her posts

when they don't accurately reflect what he or she believes, or offer an incomplete line of thought.

Of course, it's sometimes just a question of not wanting to waste time throwing pearls before swine.

[AngkorWot]

35. "Let's not talk about things I don't have a counterargument for"

"And lets talk about how much I hate Obama"

[sabrina 1]

47. Any comment on the subject of the OP? What were the charges

against this American teenager who received the death penalty, ordered apparently by the POTUS?

[Bonobo]

53. Sabrina, why do you waste your time?

You are speaking to a robot.

[sabrina 1]

56. You are right, Bonobo. I guess I am an eternal optimist hoping

that people will eventually see the difference between right and wrong, but thanks for the reminder. I tried with Rightwingers also, and eventually had to give up. It's just that this is a Democratic Board so I always assume that Democrats do care about justice. But sadly, I have to accept, as I did before, that the 'd' really doesn't really make much difference. :-)

[coalition_unwilling]

31. I blame the FBI and its gung-ho assault forces. Flame suit donned. - n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

18. So the US government just summarily executed a16 year-old boy who was a citizen?

No charges and no trial?

Just....bam?

This is getting ridiculous. What happened to the Constitution?

"No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

[MNBrewer]

27. some people here equate "whatever Obama does" with "due process"

[Poll_Blind]

28. Such a line of thinking is, without a doubt and unquestionably, Nixonian.nt

PB

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ncteechur]

32. Shit happens when you grill out with terrorists in Yemen.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

62. We know he was grilling out with terrorists like we know he was 21

because the Pentagon said so. Oh, wait.

[otohara]

65. The last place I'd want my son to be

With his terrorist father, knowing the American military was tracking his every move !
His father put him in danger.

[EFerrari]

67. Um, he wasn't with his father. But nice try at offloading responsibility.

[Bonobo]

72. You have to love that. We send an unmanned missile-laden drone attack aircraft...

with millions of dollars of cameras and other equip and we blow up dozens of people and THEY get the blame for being near "senior Al Qaeda operatives". As if the killing of his father a week or two earlier was only tangentially related. snort.

[snagglepuss]

107. Given the father's rhetoric, I wouldn't put it past him that he took his son over

hoping he would be martyred in some way or other. This is not to say I support the use of drones.

[Youth Uprising]

39. Wow...

This is tragic. How can people continue to deny that we live in a fascist nation? Our civil liberties continue to erode while the lines between government and corporations blur. When we peacefully assemble we are met with police violence, government agencies continue to spy on us, our voting rights continue to be curtailed, and now we can be assassinated at will without a fair trial. Christ.

[Bonobo]

40. Yup, that is about the long and short of it. nt

[whatchamacallit]

63. Welcome to the New World Order... n/t

[Bonobo]

52. New Yorker article -Link and excerpt!!! By Amy Davidson.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2011/10/an-american-teen-ager-in-yemen.html

Here is a birth certificate, for a boy who was born in Denver, Colorado, on September 13, 1995. (Via the Washington Post.) He turned sixteen a month ago, and a few days ago he died, killed when one of his country’s drones hit him and a number of other people in Yemen. His name was Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. His father, Anwar al-Awlaki, who, as the birth certificate notes, was himself born in New Mexico, and was twenty-four years older than his son, was killed a couple of weeks ago, in a separate attack. The father was targeted for assassination. He was an American citizen, and there were no judicial proceedings against him, just, reportedly, a White House legal opinion that concluded that it would be fine to kill him anyway, because the Administration thought he was dangerous. Anwar al-Awlaki was a member of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and wrote angry and ugly sermons for them. The Administration says that it had to kill him because he had become “operational,” but so far it has kept the evidence for that to itself.

Was the son targeted, too? The Yemeni government says that another person, a grown man, was the target in the attack that killed Abdulrahman. Maybe he was just in the wrong place, like the Yemeni seventeen-year-old who reportedly died, too. Abdulrahman’s family said that he had been at a barbecue, and told the Post that they were speaking to the paper to answer reports said that Abdulrahman was a fighter in his twenties. Looking at his birth certificate, one wonders what those assertions say either about the the quality of the government’s evidence—or the honesty of its claims—and about our own capacity for self-deception. Where does the Obama Administration see the limits of its right to kill an American citizen without a trial? (The last time I wrote about Awlaki, a reader commented that “Awlaki was a citizen in name only”; but that name is the name of the law, and is, when it comes down to it, all any of us have, unless we want to rely on how charming our government finds us.) And what are the protections for an American child?

You can, in many ways, blame Abdulrahman’s death on his father—for not staying in Colorado, for introducing his son to the wrong people, for being who he was. That would be a fair part of an assessment of Anwar al-Awlaki’s character. But it’s not sufficient. He may have put his child in a bad situation, but we were the ones with the drone. One fault does not preclude another. We have to ask ourselves what we are doing, and at what cost.

It may be that we are paying the price here for not coming to terms with the legacy of Guantánamo, or thinking, in a systematic way, about children and the war on terror. (Can something that is still open have a “legacy”?) We held children there: look at the cases of Mohammed Jawad and Omar Khadr. Are there are other children who have been in the wrong place for a drone strike, whose names we don’t know?


Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2011/10/an-american-teen-ager-in-yemen.html#ixzz1bTVEQlVD

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2011/10/an-american-teen-ager-in-yemen.html#ixzz1bTUxlfUG

[woo me with science]

55. K&R. While the Supercommittee reaches "consensus" to preserve war spending,

while making Obama's deep cuts in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

This is what we have come to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2161681

[PhoenixAbove]

64. This shouldn't even have to be said...

on a board like DU but... if I were a child, I shouldn't have to pay for the crimes of my parents.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harun]

71. Me as well.

[Starry Messenger]

70. k&r

[opihimoimoi]

75. Mama always said to stay home....never ever go where them drones can kill yo ass.

[sabrina 1]

77. You don't have to go far if you are American citizen and

someone calls you a 'terrorist' anymore, not even to a court of law. The drones will find you.

[opihimoimoi]

86. He was a dumb shit...sorry....

[sabrina 1]

88. Yeah,, American teenagers are often called that, but they do grow

out of it most of the time. They were just having a party, teenagers do that. Killing all the 'dumbshit' American teenagers who go to parties in this country wouldn't leave us with too many adults. :eyes:

[opihimoimoi]

89. sorry, smart kids far outnumber dumb ones who put themselves in Harms Way

[whatchamacallit]

92. What does that even mean?

Some sort of Darwinian thing???

[opihimoimoi]

96. smart kids stay outta harms way.....away from drone prone areas...

[sabrina 1]

94. I'm sure these American teenagers went looking for a US

Drone to stand under and signaled their whereabouts to make it easier for it to find and kill them. That would be pretty dumb of them.

Unless of course it was the drone that sought them out at their teenage party.

That would make the operators of the drone dumb, because the US does NOT kill its own citizens without charges and convictions and certainly this country's laws do not permit the murder of Americans, teenagers or adults.

So, I have concluded that the 'dumb' label belongs to those who actually think the US has any right, under any law, to murder its own citizens based on the wishes of one individual. I'm sure you agree. Almost everyone else does.

[opihimoimoi]

95. I am assuming the drone guy did not yet know of the victims citizenship

fatality was unintended.....as I see it.

[sabrina 1]

108. Of course he didn't, its just a video game to him.

But those in charge of the program certainly know and they are being sued by the families of those they have killed, babies, disabled people, innocents who were in their countries at weddings, at parties doing what citizens of any country has a right to do. Our government does NOT get to say 'we did not know'. They know better than anyone and they don't care.

Clearly killing all these people is only increasing the threat the US as formerly peaceful people become radicalized when they see their three-year-old blown to smithereens and can't even find enough remains of their little bodies to bury.

People have been documenting the civilian deaths, their individual stories are being told, museums are being built to remember them. And here in the US there is a total apathy over these crimes being committed in our names.

This American teenager is not the first child by any means the US has killed by Drone. There is outrage around the world over the use of those cowardly weapons. The US still pretends their program is secret so 'we can't discuss details' Well no one cares what they can discuss, people have taken these matters into their own hands are making sure the victims are not dismissed with the inhumane phrase 'collateral damage'. They are all human beings, with names and lives and loved ones. And no attempt to dehumanize them will work anymore.

Shame on this administration and the one before it for their complicity in this.

[rug]

76. I'm surprised supporters of his murder are not questioning his birth certificate.

After all, it's only an abstract.

[BOG PERSON]

78. so the best way to prevent anti-americanism

is to identify potential future anti-americans and then to kill them before they become that? ingenious!

[Octafish]

79. Whatever happened to Due Process?

Whatever happened to Justice?

Whatever happened to America, anyway?

[Bragi]

85. Due Process has been sent on a decade-long time out /nt

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkana]

90. And Obama personally went out there and finished the job himself.

That BASTARD.

[JoeyT]

91. Were they grilling over yellowcake?

And cooking the missing WMDs?

Anyone that believes any government with no evidence other than "We have evidence, but we're not going to show it to you." is pretty much hopeless.

Maybe we should just apply the "What if Bush had done it?" rule. Had Bush done this, the very people defending it would be screaming bloody fucking murder. Remember when they were all mad when Republicans kept saying you shouldn't question a president while we're at war? Wasn't that the stupidest thing you ever heard? It's still just as stupid.

[whatchamacallit]

93. + brazilians n/t

[chill_wind]

97. Agree. I found the neofascist freeper lovefest for the authoritarian national security state

stupid. Frightening. And dangerous to democracy.

[Bonobo]

98. kickleedeedodah.

[KoKo]

99. K&R

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

100. America: You Are Better Than This!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2171815

[Odin2005]

101. OMG in Heaven!

:grr:

[sandyj999]

106. They should be ashamed, I know that I am. nt