How to Piss Off Customers, or... "It's Really Symptomatic of the Whole Deal, isn't it?"

[TygrBright]

For a number of years, now, I've been using a laundry product. I'll call it "Brand X." Its function is to pre-treat stains, and I kept using it, after an initial trial, because it worked very well, was convenient to use, didn't contain anything overwhelmingly toxic, and was reasonably priced. Every few months I'd go to Target and buy four or five bottles, and stash them in the shelves in the laundry room, and when I got down to one bottle, I'd put it on the list for the next Target run.

This was easy, effective, and satisfactory, and it gave me a positive impression of the company that makes Brand X. Call it "Acme." At one point, when Acme came out with a new product, I tried it, because of that positive impression. It turned out not to be something I needed, but I did give it a try. So far, Acme was doing well by me and with me.

A couple of months ago, I went to Target and noticed that Acme had put out a "New!" version of Brand X: "Ultra-Brand X, for the most stubborn stains!" It was a few cents more expensive than the old Brand X.

Well, up to that point, Brand X had dealt successfully with every stain I'd thrown at it, so I gave "Ultra" a pass,and bought more plain Brand X.

A few weeks ago, I noticed something: Brand X wasn't working so well anymore. Some items were coming out with remnants of the original stain still faintly visible. Odd.

Last week I was cleaning out the laundry room and found an old bottle of Brand X. Based on the location, I knew it had to be at least a year old. So, just for fun, I thought I'd run an experiment.

I took two cleaning rags of identical content (in fact, torn from the same old white sweatshirt.) I rubbed a spot of ketchup well in to each rag, and let it dry, and then brushed the residue off. I treated one with the Brand X from the year-old bottle. I treated the other with a new bottle of Brand X.

The year-old Brand X worked just fine. The ketchup stain was completely gone.

The recent Brand X had left a slight shadow of the stain.

I was forced to the conclusion that the formula for "plain" Brand X was adulterated slightly, in order to convince consumers that they really "need" the few-cents-more-expensive "Ultra" Brand X.

I, however, shall be switching to Brand Y, made by a different company.

When I mentioned this, with bitter cynicism, to my esposo, he just shrugged, and said, "Well, it's really symptomatic of the whole deal, isn't it? They think they can get away with anything. No one gives a rat's ass about a "relationship" with customers anymore, no matter how much they advertise that they do. We're just cattle to be milked until we run dry, and then slaughtered."

And I think he's right.

Granted, there have always been attempts by companies to screw consumers, and there have always been companies who believe in short-term profits over long-term sustainability. But I do seem to recall back in the dusty dark ages of the mid-20th Century that in those days such companies were frequently outlasted by companies that had a better balance between their grasping exploitation of customers for short term profit, and their willingness to actually throw us a few bones of reasonable service, quality, and price in order to maintain long-term sustainability.

Such companies have become few, and far between. And yes, I think that's symptomatic of the whole deal, really.

observantly,
Bright

[DesertFlower]

1. i've tried "shout" and "resolve" and they

both suck. i've poured them on full strength and they still don't work.

[Cassandra]

5. If you have an oil-based stain...

try oily hair shampoo. Suave works fine.

[GoCubsGo]

10. Dawn dishwashing soap also works on oil-based stains.

Dawn is one of the few products I am brand loyal to. I just buy the blue, original stuff. It' great at cutting grease, including the grease in cloth. I have heard the reason that it's so good at cutting grease is because it has some petroleum derivative in it. Somebody pointed out that irony during the Gulf oil spill, when it was noted that Dawn was the preferred substance for cleaning oil out of the fur and feather of wildlife.

[LiberalEsto]

14. It's good for killing fleas

A dog breeder told me that many breeders swear by it.

[ejpoeta]

133. kills ants too. and if you want to get rid of fruit flies, put cider vinegar in a small bowl

with a couple drops of dish soap to break the surface tension.

[Aerows]

157. It's REALLY good for killing ticks

I know that much. I can't speak for fleas.

[emilyg]

22. I'm never without theoriginal Dawn.

[SharonAnn]

85. Until they change the formula.

Which they could do to make it cheaper for them to manufacture.

[cui bono]

94. Is Dawn bio-degradable? n/t

[izquierdista]

116. Given enough time

There are fungi that will break it down and eat it.

[Warpy]

71. You and most fiber artists

It's the one thing that will take all the grease out of a Merino fleece in the washing machine. Everything else but Power Scour and driveway degreaser (yes, I got desperate one time) poops out completely, and Dawn is cheaper in huge bottles from Costco.

If they ever screw that one up, they're going to anger women who are strong enough to wrestle sheep and that's not a good idea.

I always use Dr. Bronner's for stain treatment, it even works on dried blood, the nurse's bugaboo. I've never found any pretreater that worked well enough to justify the cost.

[cui bono]

93. Is Dawn bio-degradable? n/t

[diane in sf]

105. I use a citrus based detergent, Lifeline, I just scrub it into greasy stains with a

toothbrush and then wash. If the oily stain doesn't come out on the first wash it will when you do a second wash--even after drying (at low temp). This detergent is actually healthy for your plants if you want to reuse your gray water. It was developed by a chemist from UC Berkeley after the prolonged drought we had here in CA in the 80s.

[dddem]

121. or dish soap - like dawn

I made the mistake of using dishWASHER soap - and bleached the color out of a brand new red shirt. grr.

[Habibi]

2. "for a few cents more."

Yes, there it is.

I like Zout but it's a matter of time before they change their formula too. And it ain't cheap.

I think maybe it's time to go back to old-timey methods of stain removal--Borax, club soda, bleach, etc. And then dye a garment when you can't hide the stains. :-D

[femrap]

55. I really like Simple Green....

it's NON-TOXIC!!! I used it to clean cat pukies...so if it can get bile out of carpet, it can do anything. I wash the floors with it and clean my canvas shoes as well.

And to top it off, it's made in the US. I don't know what I'd do without it.

[dana_b]

76. me too

and I don't mind the way that it smells either. I haven't tried it for stains yet but I should. I have a bottle of Shout and that stuff is worthless.

[femrap]

88. I have Stain Stick...

worthless. I'm going to try Simple Green on my clothes as well. It really cleans up my canvas shoes. I kinda like the smell...chlorophyl?

[dana_b]

112. It could be

and that would make sense. Will we smell like Simple Green then? Haha!

[cloudbase]

3. That Acme stuff never worked.

Every kid who watched cartoons knows that.

[hlthe2b]

4. I'm frankly curious what brand ( s)

Since I've yet to ever find one that worked that
well. That said, I am not surprise-- the old bait &
switch

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Pyrex dishes didn't used to explode in the oven, too

that's before someone else bought the "pyrex" name and decided they could make "pyrex" with a cheaper glass.

Agree that it's symptomatic of the whole deal. A million rip off artists all trying to out rip off each other.

[dixiegrrrrl]

21. I am now resorting to buying "used" old Pyrex from 2nd hand places.

Just replaced a 3 cup measuring cup I broke, have had it for years.

and "vintage" sheets..the real cotton ones.
They are cheaper by half of new sheets and better material.

[femrap]

59. In the past year,

I have noticed that practically ALL sheets are made in China and towels are either made in China or India.

And they're crappy.

I had bought several sets of sheets that were in the Clearance Area of TJ Maxx...I knew it was only a matter of time before they would all be made in China. I wish I had bought more towels.

You're right...off to 2nd hand stores and garage sales.

[zalinda]

70. Not all towels made in India are crap

I know because I had some made there once for my business. I tried using American towels, but when I called to complain about how they were sewn, they had no idea what I was talking about. They told me, "No one else is complaining". I sold 400 dozen of the Indian made towels, and they were my best seller. Unfortunately, some companies don't care what they are buying, because they will sell, no matter what. It cost a lot of money (to me) to find a company that would make the towels to my specification, and they were great to work with. If I were healthier and the economy was better, I would be ordering and selling those towels. But, arthritis is a bitch, and towels are too heavy to keep lifting day after day.

When you get crap towels from a store, it's because they don't care. Imported towels can be great. But, I wish companies here would start making them again, and cared about their product. Hell, I wish every company would care about their customers.

Any one remember dishes or dish towels given free in detergent boxes? Those were the good old days.

zalinda

[femrap]

75. I guess I should have said the ones I

see in stores were crap. I'm sure those Indian manufacturers were following the American manufacturer's specs.

Very few care about providing a quality product at a good value. Those days are over.

I don't remember the dish towels in detergent boxes....but I remember getting silverware sets for every $25 I deposited to my savings acct. back in college. I still use them!

[DebJ]

104. I bought what were supposed to be high quality sheets at a

half-off sale from a well-known department store chain. The second time I put one set on, the corner ripped top to bottom.
After 6 months use of both sets, they were crap and are an embarrassment (even though I was rotating them with 4 other sets I already had). When I was married in 1975, I was given 6 sets of sheets, and TEN YEARS later, they were still looking almost perfect. As a matter of fact, I didn't even open one set until 8 years had passed, because there was no need to do so.

So, do I want to go out and buy more sheets because the 'new' ones look embarrassing? No, I feel like what is the point?

[demigoddess]

127. same here, don't feel like buying crap in the stores

the sheet thing is that they started making them on a wider loom and cutting what size they want, so sheets are on the cross grain these days, so the strain is on the weak are of the fabric. and those 400 thread sheets are practically made of lint.

[quakerboy]

107. China, India, pakistan, egypt

99% of the towels you will find in any local store come from these places.

I walked through a mall, and of all the major stores, only one part of one line in one store came from anywhere else. That exception was made in mexico.

I did find one exception online. at Amazon, you can buy 1888 mills towels. They have a line of US towels. Decent quality, reasonable price.

[femrap]

117. Think of the

price margins these corporations are getting from having towels/sheets made overseas? Greedy.

I have a set of sheets from 1979 that I still use...so soft. Got them at Sears.

[dixiegrrrrl]

135. 3/4 of the "stuff" in my house is from 2nd hand stores, but you could never tell.

Wool, cashmere sweaters for under 5.00
solid oak, double drop leaf dining table, under 200.00
mirrors, dishes, pots and pans, a HUGE rattan screen, a gorgeous hallway leather and oak chair,
and lots of fabrics, sheets, towels, all for exceptionally cheap dollars, all excellent quality, all have lasted for years and years.

My favorite item is the heavy waffle iron I got for 25 CENTS at a thrift store 40 years ago,
I still make waffles in it!
(Had to replace the cord 15 years ago.)

the "old" stuff lasts.

[femrap]

146. I just

love OLD stuff. I still have my stereo/radio/tape deck unit from the mid-70's.

New stuff is junk....I pray my coffee maker keeps going. I found a Paul Revere pan at a flea market...I was so happy. I had been looking for a small one. I still have the one that my mom gave me when I left for CA and that was '77....who knows how long she had it.

There used to be crafts(wo)menship, too.

[april]

63. you are right about the sheets...

[pmorlan1]

68. Buy Vintage

I too buy vintage. The items are truly made better. Take a look at new furniture. It's shoddy. I much prefer vintage. I have a toaster from the 1930s that still works great. I only buy new if I have to do so.

[eilen]

95. My dad had all vintage appliances

mostly because he never bought new. Eventually they do give up the ghost. However, if a company could make that toaster he had that died after 45 years.... It lowered the bread automatically, the openings were not too narrow and not too wide and toasted perfectly. Plus it had style. I think he purchased it with Raleigh cigarette coupons.

[dana_b]

77. we do that too

we recently bought two sets of Pyrex - one from the 50s and one from the 70s for myself and my daughter (when she leaves home). They are great and were not any more expensive than brand new sets. Actually the 70s set was cheaper.

She received a new set a Christmas ago and already there are chips in a couple of the bowls.

[xmas74]

79. All my Pyrex is second hand.

It holds up better and is much cheaper. My cast iron is the same-it's better.

I also buy "vintage" sheets. I have them on my bed (my bedroom is a shabby-chic look), I've made curtains and throw pillows out of them, and am now making skirts/dresses out of them. I love the old prints. They lend themselves beautifully to mixing and matching. Now I'm looking for old curtains, like what were in motels in the fifties. I want to cover an old chair in my bedroom and I've found some great patterns to make bike bags out of them. Who knows-maybe I'll make another skirt out of them too or even a dust ruffle, depending on the pattern.

Ten years ago I wanted everything new and shiny. Now I prefer second hand and sturdy, with lots of character.

[dixiegrrrrl]

136. I get my vintage sheets/fabrics from Etsy.

Etsy dot com. Has TONS of what they call "vintage" stuff. Plus sellers have a good rep backed by Etsy.
I have never had a problem, always get fast delivery.

[myrna minx]

38. This link to Snopes about Pyrex is very informative - I had thought the same thing.

Most of the Pyrex products are made in the USA.

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/pyrex.asp

[xxqqqzme]

86. Thank you for that link.

When my grandmother reached a point where it was not possible for her to travel for holiday dinners, my kids and I would fix Thanksgiving dinner ahead and take it over to her place and celebrate w/ her. It gave her live-in caregiver the day off and there were left-over I could leave for her for the next few days (she loved my rolls).

In order to give her place the 'smell' of home cooking, I would put the dressing in the oven to bake. The 35-45 minutes it would take would give us time to visit, set the table w/ her linens, china, crystal and silver. She loved seeing all her table finery on display again. The last year we did this, I had prepared the dressing in a pyrex casserole dish. It had been in the oven maybe 20 minutes when it exploded all over the oven.

Until just 5 minutes ago I thought because she rarely used her oven, the thermostat was not good and the oven had not turned off when it reached 350.

Now I know it was not her oven but the casserole dish that was maybe a couple of years old at the time. I have a Corning casserole dish I received as a wedding gift 43 years ago. Time to get it out of the back of the cabinet.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. There was an extensive Consumer Reports piece on it

apparently, the change in glass composition HAS had an effect on the ability of the dishes to withstand temperature changes.

[eppur_se_muova]

109. I posted a link to the CR article earlier ...

together with some other info (Wiki, personal anecdotes):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=223289&mesg_id=223289

[Warren DeMontague]

124. thanks for that.

it's unconscionable the lengths corporate Merka will go to save a buck.

[iris27]

125. The Snopes article mentions the CR report - they were using temperature extremes far beyond what

can be reached with a normal freezer and a normal oven.

Still...this has me researching cast iron bakeware...

[lillypaddle]

54. It happened to me

Just as I removed a Pyrex dish from the oven and set it down, it literally exploded. There were glass shards everywhere - big ones. I felt lucky not to have been hit in the eye or an artery. Cleanup was a bitch, too. I am very leery of my remaining glass baking dishes, but sometimes metal just doesn't work. Any suggestions?

[Contrary1]

92. Cast iron skillets work great for many casseroles...

You may have to experiment a bit with the oven temp. I've used mine for cakes, cobblers, breads, all kinds of things.

[lillypaddle]

122. That's a new one

I'll have to experiment. Thanks.

[Cassandra]

100. Ceramic?

I prefer Denby but others swear by Emile Henry.

[lillypaddle]

123. Ceramic?

I don't know, haven't tried it. Maybe ...

[xmas74]

126. Buy used online.

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Pyrex-8--Glass-Dish-with-metal-Serving-Tray-8754565.html

It's a Goodwill auction site but they have plenty of Pyrex and some of it is a good deal. They also have lots of cast iron.

[KT2000]

7. probably diluted

I remember when someone did an analysis of a "new and improved" toothpaste over time. Sometimes it was a bigger hole so people would use more, sometimes it was the print on the package had changed.
I once bought a gallon of stain remover from the manufacturer - small business in Seattle. It worked great. They actually sold it to people who would repackage it with their brand name. The cheaper the brand, the more it was diluted - to the point where it did not work at all.

Now, all they want is the money from the initial purchase - they don't even think about the customers they are pissing off.

[elehhhhna]

39. When Jof got "more peanutyy taste" they actually just added more HFCS.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

60. JIF doesn't contain HFCS.

http://www.jif.com/Products/Details?categoryId=64&productId=325

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

67. Ben and Jerry's/Unilever

I want someone to agree with me that the actual "brownie" in BJ Choc fudge brownie ice cream, now sucks, unlike like it did for years and years prior.

[woo me with science]

154. Ben & Jerry's......UNILEVER?????

Say it isn't so!


I am still recovering from the fact that those ghouls wrecked my Breyers!

[woo me with science]

155. posted wrong place - delete

[ejpoeta]

8. i used to buy an oxy stain remover. can't remember the name now but

it had stuff in two sides. worked great! even on stains i had washed already. Well, they don't make it anymore. Can't find it can't buy it. I was willing to pay extra because it worked. Now it's gone. Tide works ok, but nothing beats that oxy stain cleaner. I've tried many stain removers and none of them gets everything out. And my kids are good at staining everything.

[dionysus]

16. try this stuff;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fels-Naptha

my bar has lasted me 3 years and theres still 80% of the bar left...

[hlthe2b]

42. Do you grate it into the wash as the Wiki article suggests?

Do you find it to work on all stains? Ink, coffee, wine, makeup and the usual "around-the-collar" grime are my usual issues.... :shrug:

[dionysus]

47. i have, but usually apply it directly to a stain. I use it mostly for grease stains, but it

should work on damn near anything (ink though, i doubt).


something else to try is "pet spray" it's in the pet aisle, comes in a spray bottle. it's for cleaning up urine\vomit. that got a months old cognac stain out of a white rug :)

[PatSeg]

99. I use it too

It is a classic and works really well. Smells good too.

[elehhhhna]

40. oxy fabric spray in the silver pump spray...

works on EVERYTHING

[Dont call me Shirley]

151. I make a liquid out of the powdered oxy-clean and it works for most stains.

Grease needs several applications. 1 and a half scoop of oxy to 32 oz warm water, careful to only pour a two or three oz of warm water or it will foam out of bottle. Doesn't work in a spray bottle, only one that pours.

[NEOhiodemocrat]

118. I have been using a stain remover that I read about

It works great! I get a $1 box of dishwasher detergent from the dollar tree store. I either make a paste of it with warm water or if have a load of my husband's filthy jeans I just sprinkle some in a load of hot water with detergent and wash. Probably form 1/2 to 3/4 cup in a load. It has done a wonderful job for me. And cheap.

[chervilant]

9. Another of my pet peeves:

I discovered whilst shopping for groceries today that the "2 cup" package of the shredded cheese I buy now contains only "1 3/4 cup" of cheese and it's only 8 cents less than the bigger package (of which there were a few still on the shelf).

I will not be buying that brand of cheese anymore...

[NICO9000]

13. That's happened a lot the past few years

My wife likes Dannon yogurt and a few years back they downsized the container and lowered the price by basically nothing. She complained to the company and was told their customers requested the smaller size. Sure they did...

[roody]

57. Haagen-Dasz did the same.

[femrap]

61. I don't know of a food

manufacturer that has NOT downsized their product and still charging the amount of money. Candy bars. Frozen veggies. Cheese. It's a damn racket...and they think we're too stupid to realize their 'tricks.'

I hate Corporations. OWS!!! Occupy the World!

[eilen]

97. Byrne Dairy Ice Cream is still 1/2 gallon.

the price is probably a little higher though, but they put it on sale often enough.

[femrap]

98. I don't think it is available

in my part of the country.

[eilen]

111. It's local to central NY, come and visit! nt

[femrap]

114. We have Graeter's Ice Cream Stores....

Wonder which one is better. Probably depends on one's tastes. I'd like to visit....was in central NY a few years ago. Very beautiful countryside.

[ejpoeta]

132. lt's $3.33 at walmart. and it is actually a 1/2 gal!! when i buy 1/2 gal i buy that

[eilen]

96. There are these muffins at work that literally shrank

50% in size (they are packaged). The price however decreased by 15cents. I do not buy them anymore.

[Raine]

18. Orville Redenbacker microwave popcorn has less in it

than the other brands, I NEVER buy it anymore. x(

[Duke Newcombe]

26. Ah, yes...the product "Shrink Ray"

Same labeling, slightly smaller package, higher cost. Yey, capitalism!

[UnrepentantLiberal]

I walked up to the local market last night and bought Aunt Jemima

corn bread mix so we could have cornbread with our chili. After my girlfriend mixed in the eggs and milk we ended up with four muffins. They got us this time but we won't be buying Aunt Jemima corn bread mix again.

This whole thread should be titled a tribute to Andy Rooney.

[demigoddess]

149. buy cornmeal and use the recipe on the box. cheaper and

you always get a great result.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

I walked up to the local market last night and bought Aunt Jemima

corn bread mix so we could have cornbread with our chili. After my girlfriend mixed in the eggs and milk we ended up with four muffins. They got us this time but we won't be buying Aunt Jemima corn bread mix again.

This whole thread should be titled a tribute to Andy Rooney.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

91. I walked up to the local market last night and bought Aunt Jemima

corn bread mix so we could have cornbread with our chili. After my girlfriend mixed in the eggs and milk we ended up with four muffins. They got us this time but we won't be buying Aunt Jemima corn bread mix again.

This whole thread should be titled a tribute to Andy Rooney.

[chervilant]

115. Now,

you're gonna get me started about hydrogenated oils. I will not buy any products that are made with hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils. Research has shown that these oils are most likely to become plaque in your bloodstream, leading to blockages and other health issues.

Here is a great recipe for cornbread from scratch, just as easy as the mix and better for you. Plus, you'll get more than four muffins:

(from Crescent Dragonwagon's Dairy Hollow House Soup & Bread cookbook)

Skillet-Sizzled Buttermilk Cornbread

1 cup cornmeal
1 cup flour (all purpose)
1 T baking powder
1/4 t salt
1/4 t baking soda
1 and 1/4 cups of buttermilk
1 large egg
1/4 cup butter, melted
2-4 T butter (optional--to melt in a cast iron skillet, if you have one)

Ms. Dragonwagon has a series of steps to mix the cornbread, but I just dump it all in one bowl (dry ingredients first so I can whisk them together), mix a wee bit, then pour it in the hot skillet (swirl the melted butter around to coat the sides and bottom of the skillet). Bake at 375 degrees for 25 minutes. Yum!!

If you're interested in a great recipe for jalapeno cornbread, let me know.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

129. My girlfriend likes your recipe.

We're going to try it.

[chervilant]

130. Great!

Let me know if you two want the jalapeno cornbread recipe. It makes a bread that has the texture of a fine polenta.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

139. Yes. We would love to try that.

She's a big fan of the Food Network. She's in the kitchen right now using the food processor :-)

[icarusxat]

11. Business always provides the best solutions

I won't be surprised when the business model proposed for education works out as well as your cleaning products, not as good and just a few cents extra. Then, when they have milked the education cow dry, the business model advocates will cut and run and keep the change. I can already hear them laughing all the way to the bank.

[destes]

35. Complain too much and you may get to stay in for-profit prison

First hand experience of capitalism in full bloom. I wonder how many prison "developers" have paid off their mortgage.

[Sal Minella]

84. The kids who get screwed over by "For Profit" education

will become illiterates who will get sent to prisons where they will have "jobs" at 13 cents an hour -- and the corporate overlords can save a lot of money on trans-ocean shipping-handlng costs.

I have no doubt that "For Profit Education" will work for us just as well as "For Profit Health Care" has. And the corporate money currently being poured into school board elections is all about privatizing education.

I bet Barbara Bush's sons have all sorts of helpful "educational materials" ready to sell to the private schools.

[DRoseDARs]

12. Take samples of both versions of "plain" X to a chemist or lab, see if they'll test them.

Then, stir up a shitstorm against the company in the court of public opinion. Shame them into knocking it off because Lord knows nothing else will.

We've noticed similar shenanigans in the cookies we buy. Kellogg's Chips Deluxe: Chocolate Lovers have shrunk in diameter over the years and Nabisco's Double Stuff Oreos aren't so "double stuffed" anymore. Same thing has happened for eons with potato chips. The bag says "sold by net weight" but of course really means "HAHA you're buying a bag half-filled with air, you stupid pleb!"

[dionysus]

15. even better, go old school; get a bars of fels naptha soap. wet the stain, lather it up with fels,

and you're golden. However, immediately wash hands; it's a strong base. not as strong as lye, but do wash your hands or use gloves.

[kittykitty]

143. I second this, Also use Fels-Naptha on skin after Poison Ivy exposure!

Great for stain removal. And wash skin well immediately after exposure to PI.

[kittykitty]

144. Also, my grandmother used to grate bars of Fels-Naptha and use the flakes in the washing machine.

[kestrel91316]

17. I have a recipe for homemade laundry pre-spot somewhere that I

couldn't live without. I buy the ingredients and MAKE MY OWN, which is just as effective now as it was 20 years ago.

I can look the recipe up if you want, lol.

Better Living Through Home Chemistry (TM).

[zalinda]

74. I would love to have that recipe.

I am rewashing clothes that were donated (I can't believe how dirty they really are) and I would love to be able to get some of the stains out, so they can be given out. I won't put clothes in the system that have stains on them, or rips. I mend the clothes that can be mended, but stains are a different matter.

zalinda

[lunatica]

19. I've been wanting to use this gif for ages!!

Is there something besides the ACME brand that I can use?

[OneGrassRoot]

44. ...

:applause:

:hi:

[rosesaylavee]

20. There are alternatives to chemical stain removers

I am now selling, as my second job, a direct sale all natural line of cleaning products that includes a natural/non chemical stain remover. It is good stuff and am always surprised by what it removes with little effort... grease, black shoe polish, spaghetti stains, stains that remain after having been washed and starched over - they're gone. Not wanting to go all shamwow on you so PM me if interested.

[cyglet]

23. They never

look past their nose for their profits, really. It's all quarterly profits and share price. And when even CEOs are short term employees, who bothers? They have no interest in creating a long term customer base because they're not long term.

Everything in American business describes this. It's no different here. If you can dilute formulas and lessen the volume, and charge the same, then more quarterly profit and more share price. If you can lessen the number of bloodsuckers you have on the payroll (sorry, but that's the way they regard us), then more quarterly profit and more share price. If you can rename something and claim it does more, and then charge more, then more quarterly profit and more share price. It's too much effort to retain a happy customer base. It's easier to claim everything is new and improved and grab a few suckers.

[Odin2005]

24. I've noticed this in many products when an "extra strength" version comes out.

[zentrum]

25. Why are you protecting them?

Why won't you name names? Brand X? Acme?

Brand Y?

If they really are ripping us off, tell us who they are.

And too, Brand Y gets blamed for Brand X behavior.

[necso]

27. I like to have frozen

(prepared) food for when I don't feel like cooking; and so there are certain products that I've bought with some regularity in recent years (although I've bought less and less over time because of price increases, other changes).

And within the last two weeks, I bought a well-known brand of tv "dinners" for $.69 a pop (still overpriced, imo; and sales sometimes herald other changes).

Now, I knew better than to buy anything with "meat" in it, so this left me with the option of macaroni-and-cheese*. Notably, the actual product was down to eight ounces (the manufacturer changed the plastic "dish" so that it slopes in from the sides, creating a little pool of product); but the biggest change for me (this actually took place some time ago) was the drop in quality (in many other cases, to the point of inedibility). The sauce is watery, sparse**; and in a 260 calorie product, 60 calories are from fat... not a lot of cheese there.

But certes, I'm sure this is all due to customer demand. Indeed, I envision hordes of customers phoning, emailing, etc, to demand ever smaller portions of ever crappier product.

...Or maybe not.

*: There was a only a little of this left, so I tried the (micro) pizza "meal"... it's no worse.

*: I strip off the plastic wrap, cook the product long enough to drive off the excess water, and then put ketchup on it... nothing great, but passable.

[bongbong]

28. A couple of suggestions

1) avoid Target if possible - they are big right-wing donors...Costco is much better if you can afford a membership

2) there are simple-to-make chemical recipes for stain removers on the net if you're up to that

[femrap]

62. I avoid Target as well....

nearly as bad as Walmart with regard to treating their employees.

Now that Walmart will not offer Health Benefits to PT employees, no one will. Walmart sets the stage...and I believe we will all find ourselves as PT help down in the Orchestra Pit.

I like Costco.

Simple Green is a great cleanser and is non-toxic and made in the US....sometimes it's hard to find in the store...once I found it in the Automotive Section.

[blackspade]

29. +1000

Spot on.

[petronius]

30. Yeah, "spot on" - that's the problem...

:P

[demigoddess]

150. I use oxy clean or there is a natural product Bi-O-Kleen

for stain removal. You would not believe what oxyclean has gotten out for me. and I never use bleach.

[SixthSense]

31. you're noticing the removal of phosphates

They got removed from detergents of all kinds over the past year for environmental reasons, but the consequence is that all your detergents (not just laundry, but also dishwasher) that used to be good will now suck. Try a tri-sodium phosphate booster to make up the difference.

[Chipper Chat]

49. Wow. You made me flash back to the 80s.

Indiana banned phosphates and Mom made me drive 55 miles over into Ohio to buy original Tide. I came back loaded with about 50 boxes. She said the new Tide didnt get clothes clean.

[JuniperLea]

140. Yep...

TSP is an old time product that's sometimes hard to find, so stock up when you see it!

The dishwasher itself is getting mucky these days due to a lack of phosphates.

[Tsiyu]

32. This reminds me of the lines in

tinkers by Paul Harding,
lines I read a few nights ago:


“Where’s the soap?

This is the soap.

The box is different.

Yes, they changed it.

What was wrong with the old box?

Nothing.

Why’d they change it?

Because the soap is better,

The soap is different?

Better.

Nothing wrong with the old soap.

Of course not, but this is better.

Nothing wrong with the old soap. How can it be better?

Well, it cleans better.

Cleaned fine before.

This cleans better-and faster.

Well, I’ll just take a box of the normal soap.

This is the normal soap now.

I can’t get my normal soap?

This is the normal soap; I guarantee it.

Well, I don’t like to try a new soap.

It’s not new.

Just as you say, Mr.Crosby. Just as you say.

Well, ma’am, I need another penny.

Another penny? For what?

The soap is a penny more, now that it’s better.

I have to pay a penny more for different soap in a blue box? I’ll just take a box of my normal soap.”







Extras din Paul Harding, Tinkers(Pulitzer Prize), Bellevue Literary Press, 2009.

http://salavin.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/e-la-fel-dar-mai-bun-si-costa-mai-mult/

[wakemewhenitsover]

43. ty for posting

Interesting story behind the publication of the novel (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/19/books/19harding.html?pagewanted=all), too -- especially in the context of the Big Soap vs. DIY soap ethos emerging within this thread.

[Tsiyu]

56. Yeah, he is the classic Cinderella of publishing

I didn't add above that I have switched to a totally organic/phosphate-free soap because of my greywater "system." It does not clean as well, but I know it's safer for my farm.


The changes being made to products are sometimes only cheap changes; other times it's to help the environment.

[Contrary1]

33. Soap isn't the only thing...

I've been using the same brand of egg noodles for years. About six months ago, they started cooking up differently.

I'm a pretty good cook, so there's no way the technique in fixing them has changed...and yet the noodles don't cook up or taste the same. Canned soup, tuna, you name it...they just do not taste the same.

Good news for the lucky spouse, though...he gets even more "from scratch" meals.

Unfortunately, it does cost more, and there is extra time involved, but there is some self-satisfaction, along with the much better taste...probably worth it.

[femrap]

66. Nothing like

homemade noodles....had them as a kid when Grandmother made them.

Maybe I should get out the rolling pin and try it.

Do call them and complain though....I always email or call when I dissatisfied. Just stayed at a Red Roof Inn that was HORRID and I got all of my money back!

I tried Glass Plus Wipes to clean the windows inside my car (very difficult job and hard on the back) and they just smeared the dirt. I emailed and got coupons for $5.00....thankfully the company makes Lysol and I like their Toilet Cleanser.

I had to do the windows again using Windex. I really should just mix up some vinegar and save myself some money!!!

Regarding the tuna: I think the supply of tuna is running low in the ocean...I wish they would just call a moratorium on fishing them until they let a few generations grow and reproduce. Never mind the mercury in them.

[catrose]

78. Yes, like Bath and Body Works scents

When they came out with their plug-in-the-wall scents, the whole room smelled nice for a long time. I invested in the wall outlet geeagaws and stocked up on refills at the half year sales. Now they don't smell at all unless you lean over and touch your nose on the hardware. Last time I was in BBW, a clerk admitted that most of the scents had been "reformulated." She told me which ones hadn't; naturally, those are not my faves.

So now I have more money to spend on other things, like pizzas for OWS.

[DesertFlower]

34. remember the expression "soap and water are cheap"?

not any more. a bar of soap used to last months -- now it lasts about a month. my husband calls it "planned obsolescence". doesn't matter what it is from soap to computers. it's not going to last as long as it used to.

[baldguy]

36. You can include people in that, too.

[Chipper Chat]

50. Caress fades into oblivity after about 4 days in the shower.

However, the same bar of Lava soap had been by the kitchen sink for over a year!

[DesertFlower]

103. i use aveeno cleansing bar on my face. it

lasts for months.

[zalinda]

72. If you want soap to last longer

let it dry. Most soap still has a lot of water in it, but if you take it out of it's package and let it air dry it will last longer. On top of that, it will give your bathroom a pleasant scent. Some people put it unwrapped in their linen closet.

zalinda

[bengalherder]

83. I buy Dr Bronner's liquid

and olive-oil based (like Antioch's Daphne) soaps.

A few cents more up front, but a gal of DB and a couple of bars of olive oil soap will literally last us a year and a half.

[dixiegrrrrl]

137. Yes! I buy Dr. Bronner liquid and hard soaps, they last forever

as long as they are not where the shower water can hit them all the time.

[JCMach1]

37. I also remember when patio burritos and Ramen Noodles were edible too

Don't even get me started on the double-stuff oreos I opened a few days back. I haven't had them in years. Double-stuff is now what used to be 'normal' stuff.

[Odin2005]

51. Patio burritos seems to have changed for the worse a couple years ago.

A couple years ago I noticed that they had "changed", they did not have the one open end, anymore, and they did not taste as good.

[kentauros]

138. Try Newman-Os instead

I don't buy store-bought cookies very often, but when I do, that's the brand I get :D

http://www.newmansownorganics.com/food_newman-os.html

[TNLib]

41. I remember when taco bell, and Pizza hut actually tasted good

before they were bought out by I think it was Pepsico.

[hlthe2b]

45. OMG... Taco Bell... I ate there for the first time in years: WHAT IS THAT STUFF?

It surely wasn't meat. I have a feeling it is that pink-grey goo filler that includes ammonia and that is "perfectly acceptable" according to USDA/FDA. Uggg. That was over a year ago and I've not been back since. Damn, I used to love to go to Taco Bell once in a while when I was a teen and in college. UGGGH!


Yummy! Ammonia-Treated Pink Slime Now in Most U.S. Ground Beef
You're not going to believe what millions of Americans have been eating the last few years (Thanks, Bush! Thanks meat industry lobbyists!).
http://www.alternet.org/environment/144904/yummy!_ammonia-treated_pink_slime_now_in_most_u.s._ground_beef/


Oh, and don't get me started on Pizza Hut. I long ago despaired of ever finding edible pizza again, but since I like thin crust classical pizza, that is essentially a universal "truth". Pizza Hut is just cardboard burned and dried out with some fake cheese, HFCS-sweetened tomato goo and maybe (if you feel lucky) they actually include a bit of sausage or mushroom or whatever. One slice and I was up all night with indigestion.

What the hell... I know I should just cook, but there are those times when you just don't have the time. :shrug:

[femrap]

69. I go meatless at

Taco Bell....all I ever order is the 99 cent Bean Burrito El Fresco style which has no cheese. Just refrieds, onions, and tomatoes. Still tastes the same.

I'm lucky to have an Italian family in my town that sells the best pizza! Adornetto's. So good. I think frozen pizzas are better than the likes of Pizza Hut.

[Cassandra]

101. Get whole wheat tortillas...

or pitas, Trader Joe's pizza sauce or bruschetta, and some shredded real cheese and make your own pizza.

[onlyadream]

46. I have to know

Are u talking about the spray n wash stick? Bc the new stick doesn't work like the old one, which would get rid of tomato sauce.

[Texas Lawyer]

48. It is possible that "Acme" eliminated phosphates from "Brand X" for environmental reasons.

I don't mean to imply that Acme may have eliminated phosphates out of a sense of "corporate responsibility" (which is a concept that falls somewhere between the Loch Ness Monster and the Tooth Fairy in terms of whether or not it really exists), but there are growing environmental regulations that limit the uses of phosphates in detergents, and Acme may have changed the formula for Brand X in response to these regulations.

There are two things to know about phosphates: (1) they horrible for the environment and so it was a good thing that phosphates are being better regulated and (2) they clean like a motherfucker and so your cleaning products work much less well with the phosphates removed. It's sort of like lead in paint: that shit was bad news health-wise, but it made for some pretty damn good paint.

You may find that the formula for Brand X was changed to eliminate phosphates, and the costlier Ultra Brand X has some new chemical substitute for the missing phosphates which is a "new" product that Acme developed because it knew that it would have customers that noticed that Brand X no longer cleans for shit with the phosphates removed.

[izquierdista]

120. You CAN add the phosphates back in, you know

Hardware stores still sell trisodium phosphate in the paint department for washing down walls. Add some of that to the washer, and you'll notice the difference.

If you are going to do that though, be responsible and don't let the washer drain to the sewer. Catch the grey water and save it to put on the garden as phosphate fertilizer. Phosphates are NOT horrible for the environment, it's where they end up when they are discharged without thinking that makes for a problem.

[InvisibleTouch]

52. Absolutely the corporations do scummy stuff like this.

Likewise for making the package smaller and charging the same amount (or even lowering the price a bit and then advertising a "new lower price" - when in fact you're getting less product for more money if you calculate it out).

I'm also convinced that consumables manufacturers of all kinds deliberately design their packaging so you can't ever get all the product out of it - from laundry detergent to honey and everything in between. I mean, you *could* scrape or shake or melt every last grain or drop out, but that would take extra time, and the manufacturer is betting most people won't bother.

There's a whole system of advertising psychology that researches the effect of words and symbols and color on the buyer; how stores can con a person into paying more and thinking they are getting a better deal. It goes way beyond just positioning certain items at the endcaps and putting candy down at kids'-eye level.

[femrap]

53. Today, we are forced to

accept Customer Disservice.

Recently I worked in etail for a major Shoe Company that has a D in the front, a S in the middle and a W at the end.

We were told to NEVER admit that the company made a mistake. WTF? We constantly made stupid mistakes.

[Gman]

58. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

We're not supposed to be smart enough to figure those things out.

[Enthusiast]

64. In this household we have a joke about "new and improved".

"New and improved" used to be announced with much fanfare and big bright words on food products from spaghetti sauce to tuna helper. We noticed the announcement was usually accompanied by a drop in quality, a reduction in volume or both. Marketers know that consumers are now catching on to their little tricks so these 'improvements' are no longer announced.

I suspect we "Ain't seen nothing yet."

[hobbit709]

134. The brand of carbonated water I buy sometimes

Has a bright sticker that says 25% more than a 1-liter bottle. Which is true-it's a 1.25-liter bottle. Of course before that appeared that brand was sold in 1.5-liter bottles for less than the new bottle.

[Enthusiast]

141. There ya go.

We are under assault -as consumers.

After my wife gets home from work we are going to drive 25 miles to buy some ground chuck at a small grocery store. They cut the meat right in front of you there. When we brown the ground chuck in the skillet there is zero fat to drain. It is like browning ground venison. If we buy ground chuck at the local Kroger store there is more than a cup of watery fat to remove. Actual ground chuck should contain little fat. Consumers are victims everywhere they turn.

[pmorlan1]

65. Great Post

Great post TigerBright. I also like how everything keeps getting smaller. I remember buying Devils Food Cookies and was shocked at how much they had shrunk But it's not just those cookies, it's everything. The products are getting smaller but they are the same cost or more expensive. Greed is everywhere.

[Politicub]

73. Why don't you tell us what brand x is....

So we can avoid it?

[caseymoz]

80. I'm wondering if New-Ultra isn't old formula Brand X

While the currently labeled Brand-X you were buying is really the "new" weaker stuff, probably recycled from something on the shelf in, like, 1965? So, next step as they push people to "new and improved" same stuff they were buying before for a few dollars more, they phase out the "old" product which was actually an inferior formulation to the former Brand-X.

If so in the end, they'll get to hide the fact that they've raised their prices, and mislead customers that they get something extra.

You might leave a note to the FTC to look and see if "New-Ultra" is really neither, but given our Lazy Fair environment, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[jimmydwight]

81. Hydrogen Peroxide works good for

blood stains, wine and other. Similar to Oxie Clean but much cheaper.

[Hanks]

82. Companies

are notorious for doing that exact thing - changing the ingredients or watering them down in order to push their allegedly 'new and improved' product.

[theaocp]

87. I compared the ingredients in Excedrine and Excedrine Migraine

and they were the same. Why would I buy the other shit when they contain the same?

[DebJ]

Because you want to pay more for the one labelled migraine?

At least they charge more around here.

[DebJ]

106. Because you want to pay more for the one labelled migraine?

At least they charge more around here.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

89. Is Corning Glass of NY still in business?

They used to make Corning Ware and Pyrex.
I have a lot of old Corning Ware and Pyrex and I use it all the time.
Corning Ware is practically indestructible.

[WillyT]

102. Yep... K & R !!!

:hi:

:kick:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

108. Sold to World Kitchen according to Snopes

And they are using soda lime glass instead of borosilicate glass which is what real original Pyrex is.

[NuttyFluffers]

110. might be due to Wal-Mart req. price lowering or new product @ cycle

which explains the proliferation of Cheez-Its and Wheat Thins. either bring out a new product or lower your price. well then, what's the two fastest ways to circumvent this stupidity?

1) Always bring out a new "flavor" of product

2) Always bring out a "new and improved!" product

since there's only so many sellable scents in the detergent market, and changing the formula too much is risky, what's the next easiest way to deal with this problem? that's right, do exactly what happened to you. welcome to the treadmill invoked by Wal-Mart-esque policies.

solution? kill Wal-Mart dead by boycott and screw all mass retailer companies that behave similar. or suck it up and learn to like it.

[DesertFlower]

113. another one is pantene shampoo and conditioner.

they have about 8 different formulas. IMO there all basically the same. i have very long hair which tangles when i shampoo it. i used to use pantene conditioner to help untangle it. now it doesn't work anymore. what's changed? who the hell knows? i'm buying VO 5 conditioner for 69 cents instead of paying $5 or %6 for pantene.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

128. Suave is good and cheap shampoo and conditioner.

[izquierdista]

119. This thread needs a song

I think Frank had this figured out a long time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6goaqUzDNI

[Kat45]

148. Before I clicked on it, I knew it was "Flakes" that you put up.

The only thing that's changed since that song is that it's no longer all American-made. I love Adrian Belew's 'Dylan' vocals in that song. (I saw them do it live back in the late seventies.) :D

[LadyInAZ]

131. many have noticed...

prices are higher, product content reduce, quality missing... when you have loyal customers.... we come back... when we start to notice differences... we think twice about coming back...

customer services is non-existing... many young people performing jobs... they have not a clue of how to do the job or answer your questions... when ask directly... just excuses are made and inferior products are sold... you might get your money back or you might not...

[crazyjoe]

142. I'm curious why you have so many "stains" that you need 4 or 5

bottles of stain remover every few months?

[calimary]

145. Kick!

:patriot:

[lonestarnot]

147. Nearly everything corporate is a scam these days.

[yawnmaster]

152. link? eom

[lonestarnot]

158. corporatescam.com.

:shrug:

[lib2DaBone]

153. It's all about built-in obsolenscence...

Power windows in Pontiac Grand Prix were notorious for failing at exactly 50K miles.

A pound of coffee is now 12 oz. A pound of bacon is 12 oz.

If they can't alter the packaging.. they will go to watering down the product so you buy more.

[woo me with science]

156. Campbell's soups are of lower quality now.

The clam chowder is completely tasteless.



They used to make a good soup.