It's possible to eat a healthful meal at almost any fast food

[MineralMan]

restaurant. It's possible to eat an unhealthful meal at almost any ordinary restaurant. Why is there such a bias against fast food restaurants? I see that, in Los Angeles, they're trying to prohibit any new ones in part of the city. I find this odd.

A visit to any fast food restaurant's website will show you the nutritional characteristics of their menu items. A Google search for healthy fast food brings up a number of articles in reputable publications which advise you how to eat in a healthful way at a number of them.

Isn't it all really a matter of making personal decisions? If I go to McDonald's, I choose items from their menu which won't break my normal diet. If I go to El Pollo Loco, I get food that is good for me to eat. If I order food at a taco truck, I choose it based on my knowledge of what is good for me and what is not. It's my decision, not that of someone who thinks, for some reason, that everything at a fast food restaurant is designed to make people obese. That's not the case, any more than the finest restaurant in town only offers healthful choices.

As progressives, is it our job to dictate where people may eat, or what they may order? I don't think so, but many people who call themselves progressives seem to feel it is their duty to do so. I don't understand this, to be quite frank. Is it not our job to educate rather than to prohibit people from make their own choices? That's what I've always thought.

[Hannah Bell]

1. i agree.

[MineralMan]

I suspect that is a first. Thanks.

[Hannah Bell]

4. :>)

[emilyg]

2. k/r for the unrec busybodies - When

I eat at a fast food place - order a plain hambueger - nothing on it. Pat it between napkins to get any extra fat out and just put ketchup on it.

[madinmaryland]

K/ur for the busybodies whining about the unrec busybodies!

:P

[emilyg]

19. Oh no! hug.

[KansasVoter]

27. Coward

[Riftaxe]

38. Totalitarian toady...

Hey this ad hominem thing is fun! :)

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madinmaryland]

68. Nice post, Tanya Harding!

:P

[madinmaryland]

72. That's a very yellow post, my friend.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madinmaryland]

71. Uhh. Ya think we may all be busybodies in this thread??

:rofl:

[bighart]

25. What if I don't like ketchup, not even on fries?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. But it's a vegetable!

[emilyg]

85. Get mustard.

[tabbycat31]

150. I don't like ketchup or mustard

I find them both vile.

[Statistical]

3. Sodium.

Almost impossible to stay below sodium limit at most fastfood restaurants.

Getting below calories is pretty easy, getting below fat is harder, sodium is almost impossible.

Still getting unsweet tea, and no fries is an easy way to cut 300 to 500 calories from a meal.

[MineralMan]

6. Not so. You just have to know the menu.

Go look at websites. I maintain that you can eat a healthy meal at almost any fast food restaurant, including sodium intake. Food at fine dining establishments is also laden with salt. Salt tastes good to us, just as butter does.

It's up to us to decide what to eat. Make choices.

[Statistical]

10. I have looked and I have tracked my consumption.

It is rather enlightening. I recommend everyone do it if just for a couple weeks.

I am not advocating the govt should force people to eat right (I am always opposed to nanny state solutions). I am just pointing out staying below sodium limit is very difficult, far harder than calories or fat even when actively looking/planning. The amount of salt i n prepared foods is just obscene. You are right dine in restaurants are just as bad.

That being said I do support putting calories, fat, and sodium on menus. Also it should show the %.

Take Chic Fil A for example. Entrees range anwhere from 42% to 68% of daily sodium. Side items run anywhere from 10% to 28% (hell carrot and rasin salad is 10% of days sodium). Impossible to get a full lunch meal at Chic Fil A with less than 35% sodium.

[RichGirl]

33. The government....

...has never, will never FORCE people to eat right. That's crazy tea bag talk.

President Kennedy was the first, as far as I know, to encouraged people to take care of themselves through physical fitness. I'm sure it open some eyes and encouraged them. But others continued and continue to sit on their butts and get fat and sick.

We have and will always have, in this country, the right to become the 700 pound guy or drink ourselves into the gutter or hoard until we can't find our own children.

So PULEEEZZZEEE!!! Can we stop talking about what the government will force us to do. They can't and don't even force us to drive the speed limit even though 41,000 people die every year in traffic accidents.

[ThatPoetGuy]

34. And I maintain that you're silly.

No, it isn't possible to remain on a low or moderate-sodium diet at any restaurant other than a salad bar. I've checked the nutritional content at a variety of places -- a single bagel with no toppings at Einstein Bros has half a day's sodium in it. The lowest-sodium option at most restaurants has half to a third of a day's sodium -- in a small side item.

Really, you ought to get informed before posting things.

Fat and sodium aren't high at fast-food restaurants because of taste. Taste has nothing to do with it.

The fast-food restaurant was designed to serve food quickly. That's all. One of fast food's major innovations was high-temperature cooking. Frying food in fat cooks it faster than cooking it without. Adding sodium raises the boiling point, which also causes food to cook faster.

Your larger points, about controlling what is offered to us, are relevant discussion points, but you clearly haven't faced the limited options of a medically-restricted diet or done your basic homework.

[defendandprotect]

74. Is their ground beef a la natural -- or does it have added ammonia?

You know, the stuff that kills any fecal matter that may be present in the

ground beef?



:puke:

[defendandprotect]

84. There's also the charm of these fast food factories to be considered ... !!!

Yikes!

[bluestate10]

113. Totally agree.

In addition, the human body NEEDS a certain amount of sodium daily to stay healthy. A registered dietitian once stated that if a person's daily need for sodium is 1,000mg and that person has had only 400mg by the last meal of the day, they will have to get 600mg to give the body what it needs, anything less will come up short. The person went on to explain that coming up short is not bad, as long as it is not a habit.

[Liquorice]

17. I agree. It is nearly impossible to eat a full meal at a fast food restaurant if you're on a

low-sodium diet. Also, the quality of the food is so poor at these restaurants, that even something that might be somewhat healthy is made unhealthy with the inferior quality.

[defendandprotect]

75. It seems that chemicals are being added to foods all the time to make them taste ....

like foods that they merely imitate!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. +1

You are correct. And a lot of us are on low sodium diets.

[K8-EEE]

190. DING DING DING the poor quality of the food is enhanced with

LOTS of salt. I'm on a low sodium diet (prone to high blood pressure and trying to stay off the meds) and it's not like you can say Can I have that whatever without salt please? It's all pre-fab, and the more processed a food is, the higher the salt. I like El Pollo Loco too but damn it is salty!

The healthier choices are so dreary! Salad that tastes like it's been in a bag forever, waxy, microwaved baked potatoes. I don't want to walk in and smell french fries and eat something boring and overpriced.

I'm not trying to control freak people about where they eat but we sure don't have a shortage of fast food restaurants where I live! It's the real-food places that seem to be disappearing. Just the basic ma & pa vs. corporate biz that is happening in almost every sector except yoga studios, unfortunately!

[Kalyke]

5. What can I eat at McDonald's that isn't fattening?

Or full of carbs and sugar.

Even the salads have sugar in them!

[MineralMan]

8. Fattening? Everything you eat can be fattening, unless you're

strictly a vegetarian and only eat green leafy vegetables. It is not the food. It is the quantity of the food. As I said, nutritional information is available at every fast food restaurant. It's easy enough to calculate your caloric intake. Try the Italian dressing on that McDonald's salad, or leave the dressing off. Hello?

[WinkyDink]

12. If you are going to gripe about salads, do you think places that serve foie gras and caviar should

be banned? AKA, Four-star restaurants?

[Skittles]

46. I am thin and I eat McDonald's burgers

1) I don't eat them every day
2) When I eat them, I account for that in my daily calories and adjust


It's not carbs and sugar that make you fat - it's TOO MANY CALORIES

[Rhiannon12866]

48. I read an article at the doctor's office that said the chicken salads are the best choices

At fast food places... :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. My doctor told me some of their salads have more calories than the burgers

[handmade34]

55. not the salad

just the dressing...

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Yes by the time you add the dressing you're looking at a lot of calories

But who wants to eat a salad without dressing? Not me.

[handmade34]

63. just stating the facts

I should have included :crazy: or maybe :sarcasm:

[Hippo_Tron]

100. I usually use a small amount of dressing

They give you two packets usually which would drench the salad. I use less than half a packet.

[snooper2]

164. I do...

dressing jacks up the natural flavor of a good salad

[Kalyke]

64. No... it's the salad, too.

They put sugar in them. And, even with the Balsamic vinegar dressing, it still has more fat... it's the Italian cheese.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1041265.ece

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Yes the salads too

Before the dressing...

[WillowTree]

115. Bacon Ranch Salad...

....with grilled chicken and vinegarette dressing instead of ranch dressing. 300 calories, 12 gm of fat and a whopping 33 gm of protein. Delicious! One of my favorite lunches.

[treestar]

152. Can that really be true?

This doctor could be wrong.

I've heard that about taco salads (that they are fattening in spite of being a salad).

But some of those from fast food restaurants do only contain lettuce, vegetables, and maybe chicken.

[Kalyke]

57. To nearly everyone who replied.

BULLSHIT!!

I can't eat an ounce of simple carbs without gaining weight. I can't ANY fast food without gaining weight. I can't eat foix gras, either (ewwww.. why would I eat fatty duck liver? ICK).

The fact is that I'm hyper sensitive to carbs and, especially HFCS, because I'm peri-menopausal and pre-diabetic. I'm considered overweight, but don't really look it in that I still have quite a bit of the muscle I retained from years of working out (I simply have little time now as a manager, a mother, a wife, a dog-mom and no money to join a gym - I do walk the walking trails on my breaks at work instead of noshing, however).

I realize a bit of carbs are fine - but they have to be complex carbs and Mickie Dee's doesn't have 'em. They have pap they call oatmeal - that I actually tried and, for fast food, it wasn't horrid, but it wasn't good, either.

The problem in our society is that those of us who can't tolerate certain foods cannot step foot in a fast-food restaurant.

FWIW, I can't and don't eat pork. This bacon fetish is odd. I actually heard a man on "Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives" say World Peace could be achieved by a clam and bacon Po' Boy. I laughed, knowing that one of the hot-spots in the lack-of-world-peace issue is the Middle East, where virtually no one eats bacon. That's an American weirdness.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. So I couldn't interest you in THIS?:

[Kalyke]

66. It looks like a dead bee up close, but I'm sure it's some

gross piece of pork.

That's actually abusive to me, but I live in the South where everyone thinks you eat that shit, so I'm used to that abuse.

Oh - and I can't stand the fat on any meat - even those I do eat. I don't "get" that the "flavor" is in the fat. No... fat, to me, tastes like eating a bowlful of snot.

[Obamanaut]

219. Most fast food places offer a salad, and some will even offer grilled chicken

to put on it. Leave off the dressing, and there are virtually no carbs, and about the only calories are in the grilled chicken.

Edited to add these places do not force people to eat big juicy bacon burgers, so just don't order one. Stick with salads. The soda dispenses have a water spout, carry a collapsible cup with you.

[Abq_Sarah]

97. McD's

Is the only fast food place I avoid if I have to grab something in a hurry. I can low carb it just about anywhere else with relative ease. McDonalds doesn't make it easy.

[marybourg]

7. Where do we get the money to educate from? Do you really think

we can counter the billions spent by the food industry to get the public to spend and health be damned. And I think you're confusing libertarianism with progressivism.

[MineralMan]

9. No, I'm confusing nothing. Do we not have schools?

[WinkyDink]

13. It used to be called "Health Class", or even "Home Economics."

[Saturday]

11. I think your choices at fast food places

for healthy food is quite limited vs the choices for unhealthy food. Maybe having equal amounts of healthy food might help their reputations?

[MineralMan]

45. The same is true at almost all restaurants. Fast food is

just fast. Slow food can still be unhealthy, and most often is. This isn't really about the healthfulness of fast food. It's about some sort of social engineering. Fast food is also cheap, which is why people without much money eat there. My wife and I sometimes split a $5 footlong from Subway (a fast food restaurant)for dinner. We do that because it's an inexpensive meal. We choose sandwiches which are low fat and low sodium, and pile on the veggies.

The point of this is that some people think fast food should be banned, believing for some reason that it is healthier to eat in other places. That's simply not true, as long as you're careful with your menu choices.

Here's a lunch I sometimes eat at Burger King when I'm out around noon. I order a Whopper Jr., and a cup of coffee. Go look at their nutritional information.

[Kalyke]

78. I can agree with this.

But, keep in mind, that they no longer offer the non-HFCS bread. They switched that about a year ago.

The Whopper Jr. is probably about the same.

:hi:

[csziggy]

106. I was just checking out the Wendy's Jr. Bacon Cheeseburger

Which is the only hamburger I eat (less than once a month). It is actually not too bad:
330 calories, 16 grams of fat, 700 miligrams sodium.

I would not want to eat that every day, but for an occasional meal, it is not deadly. It would be better with a whole grain bun and less sodium (most of which comes from, in order, the bun, the cheese and the bacon).

[MineralMan]

50. Check the El Pollo Loco website. Fast food anyone can eat.

Even there, though, you have to pay attention. But, they do have menus that meet a couple of dietary guidelines. You can order from those and stay within whatever limits you wish. You can do the same at McDonalds, too, but your choices are bit more restricted. Still, they have lots of completely satisfactory menu items.

[Kalyke]

80. We don't have those here. Never heard of 'em.

In fact, here, our best fast foods are local, but not always easily accessible.

[RKP5637]

14. Enlightenment/education through prohibition has never made sense to me. It's

been awhile since I've been in a fast food place, maybe they do this ... I think it would be interesting that have a red, green or yellow indicator next to foods correlated to healthy choices. That way just about anyone could make healthy choices and if one choose to eat all red indicated foods, unhealthy, well, that's their choice.

I used to eat McDonald's Filet-O-Fish and fries years ago thinking that was a healthy choice, was I ever wrong.

[madrchsod]

15. yup,there are decent options at fast food places.

[grasswire]

16. it's a multi-faceted problem

1. marketing fast food to children

2. ag subsidies for cheap products -- fillers such as corn

3. greed -- corporate and local

4. education

5. economics


Some people have plenty of grocery money and spend a good portion of it on frozen pizzas, processed dinners, all kinds of horrible things. I am heartsick when I see a family doing the weekly shopping and filling the cart with crap. They just don't know better! They have jobs, house, cars, and don't know how to buy and prepare healthy diet.

We should be more upset about that aspect of the American diet than we are about fast food. Nutrition education begins at home.

[mythology]

18. I can't speak for others, but

for me I wouldn't support saying that something can't be served, but if there are substances that are unhealthy enough, banning them isn't inherently wrong. But for example restaurants have mandated health department standards.

Of course that line is incredibly tricky when it comes to things like fat content. Education is certainly a very good start, as would doing away with corn subsidies.

You can't say it's all about personal responsibility in a society. We have a social contract that is more than just the very bare minimum. We don't legally allow people to work for a dollar a day for example.

[hlthe2b]

20. "healthy" is quite relative...

While yes, you are correct that it is possible to find incredibly unhealthy fare at any type of restaurant, those restaurants that do not rely so heavily on processed foods are far more likely to have less sugar, less sodium, less preservatives and a healthier type of fat predominating than do fast food restaurants. Even the best choices at fast food restaurants are ( in almost all cases) loaded with sodium-- and usually unhealthy forms of fat and sugar as well.

So, it depends on the individual and their health concerns as to how readily they can find a "healthy" fast food meal. A restaurant can usually tailor preparation to meet an individual's dietary needs. There is the difference.

I'm not advocating any adverse policies, however. But, I do think it important to acknowledge.

[pinto]

21. Good points. I went in to a Burger King on the way to a grant meeting this Sunday.

Hadn't been in a while since new menu requirements were established. The calorie counts (at least) for each option were pretty significantly displayed. There were also listings for sodium, fats, etc. displayed on a side board - but not as prominent as the cal. counts - they're on the menu listing itself.

This requirement may be mandated by the state (CA), iirc.

The ordinance sounds as though it might be an offshoot of the discussions about diversifying food supply choices in inner city neighborhoods. Apparently many grocery chains avoid doing business in areas they deem "risky", which limits a neighborhood options to fast food, convenience stores and the vanishing "local" market.

(aside) My town prohibits fast food drive-thrus on an environmental basis, yet allows drive-thru banking. Go figure.

It all seems a mixed bag of well intentioned attempts to laudable ends.

For my two cents, I'd prefer to see more funding in our state for the Healthy Families type of programs. They're home and school based, with a big focus on nutrition.

[Terry in Austin]

22. Sure, it's *possible*

But that's not really the point, is it.

IMO, it's not about individuals taking "personal responsibility" vetting the fare every time they want to buy a meal.

Rather, it's about protecting the public at large from corporations exploiting a general level of ignorance -- or uncertainty -- about long-term toxic food. Individuals may be part of the public, but they're not the same thing as the public (fallacy of composition).

We do have public health policy and laws protecting the public from unsafe drugs and unsafe food; it's a very progressive idea, actually. Now it looks like the idea is evolving to include a more sophisticated understanding of longer-term food safety.

[WolverineDG]

23. It appears you have upset the nanny staters

the ones who want the freedom to be the sole arbiters over what is good for everyone else & force us to do it.

dg

[Odin2005]

24. The nanny statists are only happy when they choose what we eat.

[RichGirl]

35. According to the law...

Anyone who allows their dog to crap on my lawn or sidewalk in front of my house is to get a $250.00 fine. Where are the Nannies to enforce this??? I'm tired of picking up the crap and putting it in front of the offenders door.

We are not over-nannied...we are under-nannied!

If they can't enforce the dog crap laws...how the hell are they going to keep track of what we eat and FORCE us to eat better. When I see Dr. Oz knocking on my door with a citation, I'll believe it.

[Terry in Austin]

42. Bad nanny state! Bad!

Here in libertarian America, one of the most sacred freedoms is for corporations to exploit the public.

:spank:

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LisaL]

28. It's true.

This guy lost weight eating twinkies and other sugar loaded snucks. The secret appears to be is to eat less calories, not where the calories come from.
"The result? Haub lost 27 pounds in two months, proving that regardless of what types of calories you eat, the trick to weight loss is less calories."
http://www.sandiego.com/health-and-wellness/eat-junk-food-and-lose-weight

[MineralMan]

47. Bingo. Weight gain comes from calories. All you have to do is

control those and you're OK. A basic burger is not a bad thing to eat. It's only when you add jumbo fries and a 40 oz. soft drink that you exceed what you should eat. I have a burger and a cup of coffee for lunch when I go to a fast food restaurant. The calorie count is well within my limits for maintaining my weight, which has not changed for the past 10 years more than a pound, one way or another. Mostly, though, I'm not out at lunchtime, so I eat at home.

[Abq_Sarah]

102. That generalization Isn't true for everyone

[JonLP24]

29. I think so

but it isn't easy. Last fast food place was BK and I ordered a $1 salad and $1 chicken sandwich with just a water. I don't think that was terribly unhealthy for me. I noticed at other places, the salads are expensive compared to the burgers and fries.

[Sabriel]

30. A "healthful" meal isn't necessarily a filling meal

Sure, a salad's healthier, but what kid is going to just eat a salad and/or not be hungry half an hour later?

The working poor eat fast food because it's cheap and filling and fast...not because it's healthy and nutritious.

How about at the same time they ban new fast food places, they open up subsidized grocery stores in poor areas? Merely banning access isn't really helping.

I don't want to start another "the poor can eat healthy food" debate, seriously.

[customerserviceguy]

36. Which level of government should subsidize these grocery stores?

Should it be the states, where you will increase tensions between the rural poor and the city folks who have access to these subsidized stores? How about the cities that want to ban the fast food restaurants, surely they can cut a few sanitation workers here or there. The Federal government already provides food stamps, that's a subsidy to poor folks everywhere.

[Sabriel]

37. You need a store in order to use food stamps

And many inner-city areas lack stores, which have pulled out for greener (richer) pastures.

I include the rural poor, who lack grocery stores of any kind.

Where I grew up, the nearest grocery store of any kind is 15 miles away. When I lived there, the town had a grocery store. It's a story that's repeated across the nation.

[handmade34]

61. you are observant

food stamps don't go very far at the corner convience store...

Detroit and Baltimore are just two of the many large cities where I have work of late that have a real dearth of decent stores

[customerserviceguy]

116. So, we should subsidize the building of stores, too?

What tax breaks are you willing to concede to those who will build food stores in non-suburban areas?

[bullwinkle428]

145. Wait a minute - local governments give tax breaks and incentives

to big-box stores all the time, in an effort to attract them to build in that town or area!

[customerserviceguy]

206. Yes, because they want the jobs

and sales tax revenues that flow from big box stores. Being as food isn't sales taxable in most jurisdictions, that's not going to work.

Here's a practical idea: If the problem is eating healthy, then let the food stamp program incentivize that. If a recipient purchases raw vegetables, then they get 150% of the face value of their food stamp dollar. If they get the ice cream or the cookies, then they only get 50%. I'd leave most things in the 'neutral' zone, a dollar for a dollar, but we need to encourage the families that are willing to apply cooking skills to healthy food to make nutritious meals, and disincentivize the crap food, and the highly prepared stuff.

My idea would not create a new bureaucracy, and with today's UPC coded products and computerized scanner checkouts, it would be simple to administer. Put a red sticker on the shelf next to the 50% product, a green one on the 150% food, and a yellow sticker next to the 100% item.

[NNN0LHI]

31. I think it has more to to with the parents who are giving it to their kids to eat?

No one cares about me eating a Big Mac once a year I don't think. Its the parent who pour that greasy crap down their kids throats on a daily basis that has been giving a lot of people the vapors. I think some consider it akin to child abuse.

Don

[defendandprotect]

79. That's one that I find amazing ... even grandparents do it ... !!! And think they're giving the kids

"a treat" -- !!

Disgusting -- !!

[HopeHoops]

32. Yeah, brown bag it.

Even if you go by so called "nutritional information", the raw material is toxic crap.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. OK. Take a kid to McDonald's and tell him he has to order only healthy food.

Then come back here and tell us how that went. LOL

[Iris]

43. bingo. And their marketing to kids is insidious and relentless. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. It's disgusting

McDonald's was a rare event when my kids were growing up.

[Iris]

181. as it should be for all of us! n/t

[MineralMan]

49. I don't have a kid to take to McDonalds, so it's not an issue.

So, I take it you're for banning fast food restaurants because parents aren't capable of selecting food for their children? Is that it? Pretty lame, I think. I have seen parents in fast food restaurants not allowing their children to eat things they asked for. It seemed to work out pretty well for them. Some parents are perfectly capable of controlling their children's diets. Some probably are not. I see those people in the grocery store, too, giving in to their brats demands for crap that's not good for them. And then, I see the parents who don't do that, and who buy healthful food for their children. Odd, isn't it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Show me where I said anything about banning fast food restaurants

Since I do have children and know quite a bit about them, I'll give you a hint. Parents who really care about their children's nutrition and make a point to feed them healthy food rarely or never take their children to McDonald's. Why put them into a situation where the marketing gods are undermining everything you have tried to teach them about eating healthy?

I really don't care if McDonald's stays in business or not. They don't get my business very often. The sodium content in their food is deadly to my diet. My life will go on just as it has with or without a McDonald's in my neighborhood.

[defendandprotect]

81. McDonald's serves cheap food as fast food -- why would any parent

take kids there?

[Historic NY]

41. I just found out dunkin donut egg wraps ....

are the lowest calorie thing they have...at leasts it more protein. Much better than a bagel or donut. They run from 170-200 calories.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. They just built a Dunkin Donuts near me

Their coffee is heavenly. I was also impressed with their menu but I haven't ordered any food there yet.

[bluedigger]

69. DD is part of the BFEE, you know.

The Carlyle Group bought 'em during Shrub's reign. http://www.carlyle.com/Portfolio/item7440.html

Remember this?



I haven't darkened their doorway since.

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Well damn

Thanks for the link.

[Historic NY]

110. All the ones by me a franchises own by one guy from India....

he bought up the remainding ones and has opened at least 6 more including his own central bakery.

[defendandprotect]

70. Do they have anything left of real food there? Isn't it all chemicals?

Had a sherbert there about two years ago -- tasted like a NJ chemical factory

and threw it away!

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. A lot of breakfast sandwiches

I haven't tried anything on their menu but it did look good.

[defendandprotect]

95. Factory farmed eggs? Served from fast food factories?

Chemicals in the buns?

Used to be what we always said about Domino Pizza -- nothing natural in it --

all plastic!

[Warren DeMontague]

154. Actually, none of it is real.

It's all faked, on a soundstage in Area 51.

[defendandprotect]

82. What's an "egg wrap" ... ???

[Historic NY]

114. see link

http://www.grubgrade.com/2009/06/03/food-news-dunkin-donuts-new-wake-up-wrap/

[defendandprotect]

171. Thanks ... "Iced coffee not included" ---

:)

They also say if you want to cure anything "give up coffee" -- !!!

[grahamhgreen]

62. As soon as fast food is all organic, range fed, GMO free, etc., then

I may be persuaded by your argument.

[stuntcat]

167. +1

.

[flvegan]

65. "Healthful" aside, I wouldn't give 95% of those places one thin dime of mine.

The vast majority are horrible market drivers. Not only the human suffering down the chain from their production but the animal suffering directly related to the food.

Fuck them. I'll pack a lunch.

[defendandprotect]

67. I'd never go to any of these places ... especially ...

that some time ago, as corporations wanted to relive themselves of separate

cleaning teams -- and no unions to protect them -- teenagers who also prepared

and served food were also put to cleaning the johns!

[WolverineDG]

86. When I worked at a fast food joint, I had to clean the bathrooms

After 2 days, I refused to do the mens' room ever again. Seriously, guys.... :wtf:

Anyway, other than checking on soap/paper/towels, the bathrooms weren't cleaned until closing time (unless someone had an accident.)

dg

[EFerrari]

91. I worked at KFC @ 16 for about three days.

The GREASE in what was called "the kitchen" couldn't be washed out of clothes.

The work was easy, the people were okay and the wages were low but not horrible. It was THE KITCHEN that was horrendous. I couldn't keep selling food that came out of THAT. lol

[Canuckistanian]

73. This thread has to have the record

Of popping on and off the Greatest List the most times.

Someone call Guinness.

[npk]

76. Personal freedom and responsibility is starting to be discouraged in this country

And is under attack in the state of California. I suppose many people would rather have the government eliminate things that may be un healthy. It makes it easier for people who don't wish to practice individual responsibility.

[defendandprotect]

83. Don't think the government should preserve anyone's right to serve

"unhealthful food" -- basic garbage -- loaded with sugars, salts and chemicals!

Especially when these fast food factories are so anxious to sell to children!!

[npk]

98. What about video games

Video games are just as un healthy. Sony and Microsoft, as well as other companies, spend just as much time as fast food restaurants targeting children with violent games and unhealthy habits of sitting in their bedrooms for 8-10 hours a day playing video games and getting little to no exercise. fast food is the least of the problems children are going to face. How about banning Play stations. Taking Xbox's off the store shelves. They advertise to children, far more than fast food restaurants do.

Besides fast food restaurants have been around in the country for well over 60 years. You think the proliferation of fast food restaurants in he last 20 years suddenly started to make children unhealthy What's making children unhealthy is the lack of exercise and spending way too much time in their rooms playing video games. Yet I don't hear anyone pushing to have Play stations taken off the market. I wonder why. Fast food restaurants are just a cop out. They are easy targets, simply because they are far more visible than other unhealthy addictions that kids have picked up. What about grocery stores that have multiple aisles filed with chocolate bars and ice cream. Talk about garbage being served to children. And who gets to decide what is unhealthy in the future, now that we've set this precedent in motion.

[defendandprotect]

101. I've never eaten a video game .... !!! ....

:eyes:

[npk]

107. You missed the point entirely

What you and other are saying is that only a child's diet is important. But there are many things that one could quantify as unhealthy. Video games are one activity, like eating, that kids have developed an unhealthy addiction to. One of those addictions, eating, is currently being blamed by everyone in a position of power as being the sole factor that is causing obesity children. Children have been eating fast food since the 50's. So please tell me why, all of a sudden, in the past couple of decades we have seen an explosion in childhood obesity. I'll give you a hint, it's not fast food. Nor is it how fast food is marketed.

The thing is that I believe both children's diets and their other habits contribute to the problem of more and more kids becoming over weight. The problem is that parents, or many parents, don't want to do a damn thing about their kids lounging around their bedrooms for 10-12 hours a day playing video games or watching television. Because that would require the parents to become "the bad guys" with their kids. Much easier to go after the fast food restaurants, make them the bad guys, and get rid of them inside the city limits. The problem is that those same kids are going to eat the same kind of fatty foods at home. You know how I know that, because studies show that kids who eat eat poorly from fast food restaurants have poor eating diets at home. Besides as I said earlier how do regulate what is fast food and what isn't. Also what are you going to do about all the other sources of unhealthy foods, such as restaurants and grocery stores.

[defendandprotect]

135. Well, first . . .

acknowedge that you are without humor -- :eyes:

This is what YOU are saying ...

What you and other are saying is that only a child's diet is important. But there are many things that one could quantify as unhealthy. Video games are one activity, like eating, that kids have developed an unhealthy addiction to. One of those addictions, eating, is currently being blamed by everyone in a position of power as being the sole factor that is causing obesity children. Children have been eating fast food since the 50's. So please tell me why, all of a sudden, in the past couple of decades we have seen an explosion in childhood obesity. I'll give you a hint, it's not fast food. Nor is it how fast food is marketed.

First of all, a video is neither all bad nor all good -- depends upon the contents.

However, we do note "Scholar's disease" which tells us that we are overdoing the research and

quiet work and need to get up and exercise -- no matter how interesting or how intelligence-

reducing the product we are viewing!

What happened since the 1950's -- ? Pesticides thrown all over our vegetation. And, the

feeding of animals to other animals. PLUS, factory farming which increased the stress

hormones of animals which are passed on to the "eater" -- and the many drugs, hormones and

chemicals fed to the animals in factory farm situations which are also passed on to the

"eater." Note many of those chemicals passed on to the consumer were used to 'FATTEN' the

animal!!

Also chemical pesticides used as "fertilizers" also reduce the nutrition of our plants/

vegetables -- which pushes the system to continue to demand more food. People are getting

quanity but not quality -- i.e., more food, lower nutritional value.

Also involves the many bits of junk thrown into our foods -- like sugar into potato salads!

Sugar into cole slaw salads! LARD used to make Oreo cookies! Do they tell you that anywhere

in the ads?

You have a big case of trying to find scapegoats -- preferably parents and kids -- but you

also have a big case of ignoring what capitalism has done to the human diet!

And that includes the cheap foods, poorly prepared in these fast food restaurants, which

by the way have over the past decades used the same teenagers who serve and prepare the foods

to clean the johns!



Bye --

The thing is that I believe both children's diets and their other habits contribute to the problem of more and more kids becoming over weight. The problem is that parents, or many parents, don't want to do a damn thing about their kids lounging around their bedrooms for 10-12 hours a day playing video games or watching television. Because that would require the parents to become "the bad guys" with their kids. Much easier to go after the fast food restaurants, make them the bad guys, and get rid of them inside the city limits. The problem is that those same kids are going to eat the same kind of fatty foods at home. You know how I know that, because studies show that kids who eat eat poorly from fast food restaurants have poor eating diets at home. Besides as I said earlier how do regulate what is fast food and what isn't. Also what are you going to do about all the other sources of unhealthy foods, such as restaurants and grocery stores.

:eyes:

[girl gone mad]

77. If you like eating garbage..

have at it.

[EFerrari]

90. LOL. And it looks like public health policy is unnecessary!

Who knew?

:)

[defendandprotect]

137. Society pays the costs for it , however --

[WorseBeforeBetter]

87. Urban Grange: Food Concerns in Urban Cities

http://urbangrange.com/journal/nvc/market/food-concerns/

Philadelphia Food Trust
http://www.thefoodtrust.org/php/about/OurMission.php

On Oasis in a Food Desert - TROSA Grocery opens in East Durham
http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/an-oasis-in-a-food-desert/Content?oid=1434063

Panel OKs fast-food curbs
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/23/local/me-fastfood23

"Perry said she has been attempting to address the health issues associated with fast food, such as diabetes and obesity. She is trying to persuade supermarket chains and sit-down restaurants to open in her district, which has been especially hard hit with such health problems."

What's wrong with giving people more choices than fast food? I have no problem with this, and if it makes me a nanny stater, so be it.

[defendandprotect]

138. Cheers for the so called "Nanny Staters" ... of right wing propaganda ... !!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

177. It's pretty much a given that any "we progressives" OP is going to be...

bullshit.

Hip, hip hooray!

[Gregorian]

92. One simple rule- if it's processed, don't eat it.

Go back 20,000 years, before we were sick, and see what we were eating. High fat (but good fat), high protein, no dairy, no salt. If possible, lots of fruit.

It's boring. But it's the only way to avoid the health issues (that includes dental) from the modern diet.

[defendandprotect]

96. Exactly ... if I had it to do all over again, I'd eat mainly raw foods ...

celery, carrots -- fruits -- love fruits!

No cooking!!

[Odin2005]

119. Raw-foodism is dangerous and leads to malnutrition.

We have cooked for 2 million years and now rely of having at least some of out food cooked. read Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human

http://www.amazon.com/Catching-Fire-Cooking-Made-Human/dp/0465020410/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295329036&sr=8-1

[defendandprotect]

139. Nonsense ... it is raw vegetables and raw fruits which keep you healthy ....

and a primary way to reduce symptoms of high blood pressure and diabetes!

Try some celery for lunch --

[Odin2005]

165. Why don't you read the book I suggested?

And I hate celery.

[defendandprotect]

213. Why would I read a book which suggests anything so inane?

Give us re-cap of the reasoning so we can get an idea of what you're

talking about --

[Odin2005]

216. Cooking makes food easier to digest.

giving a nutritional boost needed for our large brains to evolve.

[GoneOffShore]

201. Vitalism rules!111!!!

:sarcasm:

[Codeine]

207. Celery is sorely lacking in any serious nutritive value. nt

[Scout]

215. define "healthy"

i eat very little of cooked or raw vegetables, and very little raw fruit. i can't STAND celery.

never had high blood pressure, don't have diabetes, and i'm rarely sick with even a cold. :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. And life expectancy was 35 years

So all those fancy diseases had no time to develop

Still junk food ain't good but let's keep perspective here.

[defendandprotect]

140. Check the Bible ... since then we have reduced longevity --

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. I prefer to live in reality, not in myth

[defendandprotect]

156. 1 in 3 Americans with Cancer isn't myth ....

[nadinbrzezinski]

157. You cited bible

that is myth, now I remember why I had you in the uggy list... back you go

[defendandprotect]

168. And I'm now citing health statistics ..

Bye --

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gregorian]

162. The life expectancy argument does not work.

The reasons people died young are fully explained in the research that was done by the authors of the book titled The Paleo Diet. The things that give us longer lives now are not related to diet. I'm not the kind of person who remembers what I read. And the book is nowhere near me, or I'd attempt to find the work that was done. Those who didn't die hunting or due to injuries that we can fix now days did not die young.

[nadinbrzezinski]

163. Yes, but the life expectancy does work

cancer is in many ways a problem of cell division and lost aleles. The longer you live the better your chances. Why the cure for cancer, will be... at the genetic level.

The same goes for Diabetes, which granted, even 100 years ago (before insulin) had a life expectancy of... five years best case, post diagnosis. Yes, people knew what it was. And sweet pee was not something anybody wanted to get.

The problem is that modern diet contains many elements that are just plain accelerating the appearance of these, as well as modern life styles.

I'll give you a concrete example for us. Yes we eat meat... but not a 12 oz steak per person. Right now the rib eye is cooking thank you very much, it is THE rib eye for two adults and two parrots... that comes to about oh four oz per adult and an oz per bird. That includes also some boiled brocolini and rice. In other words a reasonable meal.

Oh and 20K years ago the diet had a lot more plant material (very recent research) than we used to think... by the way. But unlike our modern diet, which has sugars, and some fats that are the result of lab techniques, also included quite a bit of aerobic exercise. Those fats are the infaous trans fats... by the way.

My suspicion is that the paleo diet should be revised, given very recent research... (the shit one learns why doing research into ancient American man for a couple classes.) We are talking last five years by the way... and we are talking the very ancient predecessors to squash and maize here. Oh and yes, humans started cooking their meat at least 100K years ago.

[Gregorian]

174. The Paleo Diet is recent research.

But some of their conclusions are based upon research that was done forty years ago. It actually contradicts the older research. But it does so because they are interpreting it differently now that they have the ability to properly analyze it.

They logically explain why the early diet was very high in animal protein. They have a multifaceted approach to the research so that it's not just some concept. It's actual fact that has been shown through discoveries. It's a great diet. It's the diet Lance Armstrong and many high level athletes have now discovered to be a big improvement. I've spent a lot of time on a sport forum, and experienced the change in people's lives. It's not an easy diet. We love our dairy and processed foods.

I've dropped dairy for fish in the morning. My food bill is way higher than it was. But I want to live right.

The other thing that is nearly impossible (aside from no added salt) is no carbohydrates, unless after exercise.

I strongly suggest everyone read this book. It's brilliant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

175. Yes and my point is that MORE recent diet is telling us

These people ate far more plant matter than originally believed.

Chemical analysis of Bone marrow points to high level of protein in diet...but recent archeology has found more plant food.

In general Amercans eat way too much processed food as is. And again recent research in dietitics tells us that www eat way too much processed food, way too much meat, and that we may be wrong about carbs for a generation.

I just don't keep up out of interest, what www have done to the food supply has done damage.

[MineralMan]

124. Go back 20,000 years and check out life expectancy.

Seriously.

[Gregorian]

161. Read the book.

They explain it all. It's called The Paleo Diet.

Decades of research went into it. I don't have the brain to recall on the spot. I read both the Paleo and the other book by the authors, and it's found that the life expectancy thing is false.

[PVnRT]

126. Nearly all food is "processed" in some way

Ever cook meat? You just "processed" it. Humans have been using fire and smoke for their foods for 10,000 or more years because it makes them taste better and makes them easier to digest. As pointed out above, a strictly raw food diet has its own health problems.

By the way, your body actually needs salt and other electrolytes. For one thing, they help carry signals through your nervous system.

[defendandprotect]

141. Your body needs "salt" which comes from natural plants ... cole slaw for instance....

NOT manufactured salt -- not manufactured sugars --

You want sugar -- eat an apple.

Anyone eating "meat" is helping to destroy nature and the planet --

and their own health.

[Codeine]

191. Cole slaw?

That's a salad - a dressed and salted salad - not a plant.

[ZombieHorde]

93. But using the government to punish those who engage in your pet peeves is so much fun!

I want the government to lock up people who use the word "literally" as a synonym for the word "figuratively." They should sterilized and so should their children. Their lineage should end.

Additionally, who ever decided the Romantic Comedy section at the video store should be as large as it is, should be punched in the thigh, really really hard. That person's thigh should not feel comfortable.

[defendandprotect]

99. If government would chase down Bush/Cheney and BP it would be "fun" ....

allowing fast food factories which dispense cheap foods with little nutrition

should be questioned not only by government, but by liberal leadership and those

who want nutritious foods!

Do you really want to eat ground chuck laced with ammonia to prevent E-coli?

On a chemical bun?

[ZombieHorde]

104. "Do you really want to eat ground chuck laced with ammonia to prevent E-coli?"

Well I am feeling a bit hungry, and I usually like to avoid E-coli. I am actually leaning towards a frozen pizza tonight, I am feeling lazy.

On a chemical bun?

All buns are made from chemicals. I don't think humans can make buns without chemicals.

[Goblinmonger]

129. Maybe an unleavened bun

Still probably baking soda in it.

[ZombieHorde]

136. Probably has water in it. nt

[Goblinmonger]

147. Doh! God damned science

and its evil chemicals.

[defendandprotect]

198. Come to NJ -- you'll enjoy smelling those lovely artificial chemicals -- !!

[defendandprotect]

142. Enjoy your ammonia and your artifical chemical bun --

Humans don't make grain -- nature does --

humans exploit grain -- and then add artificial chemicals to foods to make

them taste like real foods --

LOL

[ZombieHorde]

143. "Humans don't make grain -- nature does -- "

Does nature make humans?

[defendandprotect]

144. Probably one of nature's largest mistakes ....

so presume we are hybrids --

[Codeine]

192. "presume we are hybrids"

WTF does that even mean? Hybrids?

You are beyond laughable.

[Name removed]

195. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

196. Hybrids of what? nt

[Goblinmonger]

146. Nature makes ammonia, too.

And other chemicals.

[defendandprotect]

155. Yes -- and we all eat it for dinner -- !!!!

:eyes:

[Goblinmonger]

159. What are the sides again?

I thought you were on the side of "things that come from nature are good"? Or are you ready to admit you toss around the term "chemicals" incorrectly?

[defendandprotect]

169. You want ammonia in your food? Is that the side you're choosing ... ?

I'm on the side of sticking with debate and not creating nonsense --

There are natural chemicals and there are artificial chemicals manufactured in

factories in New Jersey --

They use those to flavor perfumes, ice creams, sherberts -- and hamburger buns among

other things to save costs for fast food companies and other manufacturers who don't

want to use the real thing.

Everything is done on the cheap now by corporations without any regard to the health

of nation -- and without any regard by our elected officials for the nation's health.

Apples are "good" -- artificial chemicals, stress hormones from animals passing into

humans, hormones and chemicals given to animals to make them grow faster and which

enter our water supply and human bodies of those eating the "meat," feeding animals

to other animals, feeding them road kill, putting ammonia into ground beef -- "bad."

[Scout]

170. self delete

[Codeine]

180. Actually, grains as we know them are entirely the product

of human intervention in the form of intensive selective breeding over thousands of years. We "made" most all modern cereal grains.

[MineralMan]

182. +1

'Tis funny, isn't it?

[defendandprotect]

199. That's like saying Monsanto has "made" nature --

Believe that and you'll believe anything -- !

Women nurtured plants -- males mainly destroyed them --

Plants are not only our nutrition, they are our medicines.

There is little "grain" in anything we produce today because grain is so exploited,

as is everything else that capitalism touches --

[Codeine]

200. You understand nothing of plant history.

Selective planting has massively changed our cereal crops from their original forms. they've grown much, much larger, with greater yields and improved ease of cultivation.

It has nothing to do with either Monsanto or your non-sequitur regarding gender.

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

217. Word salad.

[Warren DeMontague]

151. Chuck who?

Is he related to Van Allen?

[Bonobo]

94. This is entirely consistent with the mistaken idea that your personal reality

is the same reality everyone else lives in.

Completely consistent with "I have no problems at airport security. Therefore there are no problems."

I have no wish to discuss further, but it is a very myopic way of seeing things.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

176. Good point. It's up there with "Minnesotans laugh at blizzards."

Yes, I'm sure the homeless and those who can't afford to pay their heating bills find blizzards a real hoot.

[MineralMan]

183. Ah, but you managed to drop in on my thread.

Thanks for stopping by and for dropping a non-sequitur into the discussion.

Have a pleasant evening.

[Bluenorthwest]

103. Have you ever been to South Los Angeles?

30 square miles involved in this law. Over 1,000 existing fast food locations, and very little other choice. Our cities all have zoning laws and limits to the location and amount of locations for various sorts of businesses. I am certain the Twin Cities do not allow unrestrained liquor sales, for example. That's just one example. Unless you oppose all of those regulations as well, and you might, I'm not sure how you can see this law as 'odd'. It is common as can be, not unusual nor odd.
This law is designed to promote a wider set of available choices in the area, which now has the choice of which mass franchise microwave/fryer to eat at, and not nearly as many other choices as any other neighborhoods in the city. They also have a much higher obesity rate, fewer grocery choices....
But I'm sure you knew all of this stuff. Let me know if Minneapolis actually allows bars next to preschools and drive through liquor stores on every corner. Can I open a Hooter's across from the Baptist Church? A gay bar beside the Lutheran's? That would be cool!
People who lack options can not make their own choices. It is our job to make sure people do have access to the choices and options most of us actually take for granted. You certainly do.
And I say all of this as a person who just yesterday wished I could drive down to Church's Fried Chicken and pick up a Sweet Potato pie from some Nation guys on the way home to cap it off. So I'm not against fast food, but no neighborhood should have too much of even a good thing and not enough of anything else.

[bvar22]

105. I agree with Mineral man.

I quit smoking, so everybody should simply quit smoking.
The cigarette manufacturers should be allowed to continue manufacturing poisons and marketing them to children,
just like McDonalds.
.
.
.
.

[Swede]

108. I agree.

Just know what the ingredients are and order accordingly.

[fishwax]

109. a moratorium on new fast food restaurants isn't dictating where people may eat

Nobody in the area who wants a fast food meal (healthful or otherwise) will have any trouble finding one.

[bluestate10]

111. I don't have restaurant choices.

I can get a healthy meal in any restaurant. Every restaurant that I have ever visited allows me to determine what to put in a meal and what to leave out. Bias against fast food restaurants is simple, pure snobbery by people that have to feel important, some how.

[Lucky Luciano]

117. Let me guess? You live in Santa Monica near Montana Blvd?

Some other well off neighborhood?

Sounds like wealthy neighborhoods not wanting the restaurants of the underclass blighting their neighborhoods.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. Actually it is a mayor's initiative to limit

These lovely places in his food deserts.

[MineralMan]

185. What makes you think that? If you click on my profile,

you'll see that I live in St. Paul, MN. I used to live in California, but nowhere near any part of Los Angeles. Nice try, though.

[Lucky Luciano]

193. Guessed because that part of Santa Monica had it implemented

a long time ago. Other wealthy areas try to do the same becase the signage is so appalling to the sensibilities of the locals. The Hamptons and Beverly Hills have the zoning rules for the signs, but allow the restaurants. That part of Santa Monica took it a step further, but I could be mistaken. Was not meant to be any offense.

[GoneOffShore]

118. Only if you eat the containers and not the food and only drink the water.

Fast food restaurants sell "food" that's over processed, over salted and factory produced.

It's at least three or four steps away from actually being food.

It is, at best, a provider of calories, fat and salt. Not to mention the flavor enhancers, antibiotics, pesticides, hormones and assorted preservative that are in each tasty bite.

[Generic Other]

122. I am newly on weight watchers and just opening this thread

cost me points.

[Swamp Rat]

123. LOL!!

:D:hi::hug:

Screw dat fast 'food' crap! Have some berled crawfish, dawlin'! :9

[MineralMan]

125. Eat they tails and suck they heads. Yom yom!

Now I want some. But I'm going to have to wait until Spring here in Minnesota, but there's a lake just a few blocks from my house that's full of the little mud bugs. When the ice is off the lake, I'm gonna catch three or four dozen of them and have a crawdad boil!

[DirkGently]

127. Nutritional disclosure seems a reasonable middle ground.

If you're in the business of selling high volumes of cheap food across the country, and the fact is that most of your sales come from foods which, if eaten regularly, would destroy someone's health, it seems reasonable to ask you to disclose the nutritional values of your menu items.

The reason the industry has resisted this is not because the power of humans to freely discern and determine appropriate foods makes nutritional disclosure irrelevant. It is because their profits depend on the natural tendency for people to ignore, or make favorable assumptions about foods whose nutritional content they do not know.

Progressives are not in the business of telling people what they may eat; this is a red herring put forward by business interests.

As for zoning restrictions in Los Angeles or elsewhere, I think it's likewise questionable that this is a tyrannical attack on the individual's right of choice. There may be aesthetic, traffic, or other zoning considerations in play. I'd be interested in seeing the official reasoning, rather than a shorthand presumption of government intrusiveness, before decideing whether I agree.

[MineralMan]

186. Disclosure is the rule where I live. In California, too.

Elsewhere, all the nutritional information is on the web, for all to see.

[Stevenmarc]

128. I suppose, if it's your only option

I just never found them a great value especially when I have plenty of other options but that's NYC for you.

[jeffrey_X]

130. what percent of the meals sold at fast food places are healthful?

less than 1%?

[MineralMan]

173. Go do some research by looking at menus and nutritional

information. You're way, way off.

[yurbud]

131. El Pollo Loco is really the only safe fast food

[semillama]

132. If one is informed, it is rather easy to eat a healthy meal at a McDonalds.

Water for your drink. Side salad, with raspberry vinagrette dressing. Couple of plain burgers, toss the bun (make sure you ask them to leave off the grill seasoning ). Voila:


240 calories, 17 g fat, 25% daily fat, 6 g saturated fat, 0.4 g trans fat, 55 mg Cholesterol, 235 mg sodium, 13 g carbs, 2g fiber, 9g protein, 60% RDA of Vitamin A, 35% RDA Vit C, 6% Calcium, 10% Iron.

If one wanted to cut down more on the sodium, use a dribble of the dressing, or ditch all together.

Chicken is the thing to avoid at most places for people concerned with sodium.

The information is available at their website.

[nadinbrzezinski]

133. No it is not

start with sodium levels, follow to fat and sugar.

For the record food in a "regular" restaurant has very similar issues, except better quality ingredients.

Oh and don't get me started if you are a:

Diabetic.
Gluten Intolerant
or

Renal Patient.

Worst case all of the above.

If you happen to be gluten intolerant the only "advantage" at the regular place is that they modify the crap for you. Aka you can ask for the bun not to be served with the burger, for example, and just do fries. You are still looking, on average, at 800 Kcals in a meal.


Oh and salads are the WORST offenders actually.

It used to be that yes... you could find a fairly decent meal, EVEN at McDonnals, but that is literally a lifetime ago. (IT is in the portion control and size among other factors)

[MineralMan]

187. If a person has health problems that restrict his or her diet,

of course special precautions need to be taken. That's true no matter where you eat. I assume that people who have dietary restrictions know about those restrictions and act accordingly. This thread is really not about people with such restrictions or problems.

[Codeine]

194. Restaurants aren't made for people with major health issues.

The vast majority of the public has no major food issues and those are the people for whom restaurant fare is made.

[Orsino]

134. It's possible to hear an intelligent, caring opinion on Fox News...

...and to hear cruel, corporate idiocy on MSNBC.

Duers' preferences, tend strongly the other way, and that's for a reason.

[hedgehog]

148. Aside from presentation, is there real difference between what gets served

at high end chain restaurants and fast food joints? I mean, aside from the fact that the high end places microwave their frozen entrees and the fast food places generally grill or fry? This law reeek sof rampant class-ism.

[Warren DeMontague]

153. What you don't understand is that we are FORCED AGAINST OUR WILL to eat in those places.

Oh, wait, we're not.

[Taverner]

158. Wow - we agree in something...

Will miracles never cease?

[MineralMan]

188. Actually, we probably agree on far more than you imagine.

[Rex]

160. True, but people frown down upon 'fast food' as what the working poor eat.

Wereas if you go to a restaurant and pay 30 bucks for a prime rib steak and some bloomin onions...you have more calories then three fast food hamburgers. I agree, the hypocrisy is sad.

[stuntcat]

166. I just don't eat out at all :)

cause restaurants profit from getting their supplies the cheapest way possible.

If you're trying to adjust life for the current Fuckupocalypse then it's good to learn where your food is coming from and to prepare it yourself. IMHO }(

[MineralMan]

189. In that case, this thread is not about you. It is only about

people who eat at fast food restaurants.

[jdp349]

172. A quick bit of research indicates yes

A quick scan of the McDonald's menu nutrition facts (http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutritionfacts.pdf) indicates that there is sufficient selection to compose a meal that meets a reasonable criteria of healthful meal.

However sodium is consistently quite high but so long as calories are managed sufficiently throughout the day this isn't an issue.

The American Heart Association recommends that for every 1,000 Calories of food consumed, the sodium intake should be 1,000 mg and should not exceed the 3,000 mg limit.

[GoneOffShore]

179. Just say no to Mickey D's.

Eat food, mostly plants, not too much.

Michael Pollan

[undeterred]

184. If you hide it in your purse and bring it in with you.

[Lucian]

197. I wish I could unrecommend because this OP is idiotic.

[Blue-Jay]

202. Explain.

[Lucian]

205. Nobody goes to fast food places to eat healthy.

If I go to a fast food place (which is once in a blue moon), I want the greasiest, juiciest, burger I can find on the menu, something that will fill me up. Nobody goes to a fast food place to eat healthy. There is no market for healthy food in fast food.

[Blue-Jay]

208. OK. Point taken.

I enjoy an occasional grease-burger as well, but that wasn't the point of the OP. As I understood it, the OP was pointing out that healthy choices are available at most fast food joints. Certainly, if I were in the mood for a healthy meal I doubt that my first thought would be Carl's Jr (Carl's Jr... "Fuck You, I'm Eating." ), but healthy choices are indeed available at most chains.

But, no, most people don't go to Burger King for a healthy meal.

[Lucian]

209. There are no healthy foods at a fast food place.

Hell, the salads are worse than the burgers.

[Blue-Jay]

210. None? I doubt that.

Then again, I've never really given it much thought. Upon further consideration, I guess I really don't give two shits. Have you tried the new fries from Wendy's? They're not horrible.

Fast food every day = bad idea
Fast food once in a while = OK with me.

[Codeine]

211. There's a Southern California burger chain with a full vegetarian

menu in addition to all the regular crap. Once you take out the meat and use the TVP it becomes much healthier

[Lucian]

212. In Southern California.

I live in Minnesota. All we have here is Taco Bell, Burger King, McD's, White Castle, Wendy's, etc. The big names. Nothing but greasy meals.

The only place here that sells marginally healthy food is Subway or Quiznos.

[GoneOffShore]

203. More nutrition from cardboard

Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.

How many times does it have to be said?

[akwapez]

214. I guess that depends on your definition of "healthful"

If you are only looking at calorie intake, fat content, etc then maybe your are right.
However, I do not consider any processed, non-organic substance to be "healthful".
I rarely eat out at all and when I do, I assume I am ingesting unimaginable toxins.

[Taitertots]

218. Banning fast food is authoritarian bullshit

There is no reason why everyone should be punished because some people choose to eat themselves to obesity. It is attempting to impose a biased value system onto others when there is no supporting reason.

To the ban supporters: Why do you care if someone wants to be happy with what they eat and die slightly younger?

Edit: This is a long term de facto ban. Anyone who disagrees isn't being honest about the intentions of this bill.

[Obamanaut]

220. I agree with you, but it is an unpopular point of view. Too many people

only see the burgers with cheese and bacon, and don't notice salads with no dressing on top.