One Third Of Employers Say They Can't Fill Jobs Because There Aren't Enough Qualified Candidates

[FarCenter]

Staffing company ManpowerGroup reports that 52% of U.S. employers say they're having trouble filling positions — which is a huge increase from last year, when only 14% of companies said they had difficulty filling positions (via Wall Street Journal).

...

So who are these employers that are looking to fill so many jobs? The agency says the top 10 toughest jobs to fill are: 1. Skilled trades, 2. Sales representatives, 3. Engineers, 4. Drivers, 5. Accounting & finance staff, 6. IT staff, 7. Management/executives, 8. Teachers, 9. Secretaries/administrative assistants and 10. Machinists/machine operators.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/manpower-group-survey-q4-2011-10

[Skittles]

1. they are LYING about IT staff

here is the tactic they use: you have to have mega degrees, qualify in EVERYTHING and they'll pay you 10 bucks an hour and CONTRACT you so you don't get benefits - then when HUNDREDS are not jumping at that chance they say they have to look OFFSHORE for "talent" :puke:

[napoleon_in_rags]

5. Let me correct: They are FUCKING LYING about IT staff.

I programmed for years, got a CS degree, can program in 7 languages, taught Java, but can't find even the most basic job in it. Why? Because of the industry experience trap. I was talking to guys in Mumbai, they are good, but not better than me - and they charge about $15 an hour, a rate I would be happy to work at to get my foot in the door. But its almost like there is this prejudice about hiring American... This desperate need to transfer money overseas. I can't figure it out at all.

[Skittles]

11. I see the results of Mumbai "talent"

:thumbsdown:

[napoleon_in_rags]

19. Honestly, let me tell you the context of that conversation.

I was on a programming forum, trying to help out. The guy didn't understand recursive functions, which is one of those ideas anybody who takes CS in the US gets rubbed in their faces until their sick of it. I helped him with his problem, he thanked me, and I asked about his project, what he worked for. It was $15 an hour US, big pay in Mumbai, but less than programmers in the US made (at the time). But over the next few years, I saw programmers coming to the job I worked when I was in school, (where I still work) experienced database guys and the like. They were working for like $10 there per to get by, because all their jobs got outsourced to India. The irony is they would be happy to work for the same rate as the Mumbai guys, but if you go on any job board, you will find that is NOT AN OPTION. They put out a job paying $80k, demanding 10 years experience (sometimes in languages that have existed for less than 10 years) and refuse all applicants. Then the job goes overseas when they "can't find qualified people to fill it". Its the weirdest thing I've ever seen.

[GSanon]

94. I know what you mean...

...I was despised and rejected for the most ridiculous reasons imaginable when I graduated CS in 2002. My fantasy is VERY different from the typical grad. I don't aspire to become a member of the suburban-family-raiser demographic at all. If I were offered a position in CS today I would be tempted to deliver a nasty surprise speech in the Good Will Hunting tradition, for example:

I would pretend to enthusiastically take the job for a few minutes, then....

"Only one problem. I don't want it now. Different things are different to different people. I'm not looking for the marriage and the white picket fence and all that stuff that a 25+ person is supposed to pursue. Much more than this, grant me what my younger days might have been like if I were not treated wrong. The great EITLR: Persecution of the gifted is no longer just a vice of schoolyard kids and mean teachers. Since BOOSH came to power, now even company bosses and HR goons have been doing it. Find a way for us to go back in time nine years and then we'll talk."

(Slow precipitous withdraw.)

(Slam the door.)

...If I beat the lottery, I would actually go job hunting just so I can do this to as many corporations as I can. Not joking.

really, I think who they really want is the easy-to-control mediocre talent. They hate the truly gifted.

[Progressive_In_NC]

96. In Raleigh, NC I can't find experienced .NET programmers of the junior variety, they don't exist

I want a guy with C#, .NET 4.0 experience who has about 5-6 years overall experience (roughly a 26-32 year old). We have a very senior shop (average age of 44) and I need to hire and yes, train the next generation. I can't find them. I get guys with two years experience asking for 75K, and guys with 7 years of JAVA asking 6 figures to be retrained (they can get that for staying in JAVA in the RTP at this time). We are a mid-sized company and can't afford those salaries, but we don't pay poorly either.

I have never seen the job market like this (talent scarcity).

The outsourcing trend has all but eliminated the talent in the 26-32 year old range locally, in one of the highest demand technology markets in the country. I can get 10 outsourcing companies with a couple of phone calls, but our company wants to hire and train Americans, to have the talent here.

Our next step will be to hire somebody who has little experience and train them and take the 9 month hit to get them up to speed. 30% growth year over year is a good problem to have, but without a good local talent market it makes things very difficult.

[boppers]

102. People still use C# and .NET after 5-6 years..... willingly?

:evilgrin:

Seriously, there's a huge gap, but I don't think it's language specific, platform specific.... it's *sector* specific. You are looking for candidates (by age) who were entering or in college as the US tech bubble was crashing and burning. A 32 year old was leaving a four year college in 2001, amid the rubble of the tech crash. It took a while to make the field seem viable, and not overloaded, again.

That being said, you have a HUGE problem in two ways:
1. This is an ageist perspective. Consider taking on a 55 year old with 6 years of .NET/C#, if they're willing to work at your Junior wages. Likewise with a 20 year old who has been coding since they were 14.
2. Why do you need a "guy"? Genitals are not relevant in *any way* to programming.

[OhioChick]

57. I "fix" the results of Mumbai talent....

:banghead:

[Skittles]

70. gawd, OhioChick

I had to call the lone American for a rat's nest at 02:00 AM - WHERE DO I FRIGGIN' START he wailed, poor thang

[Riftaxe]

25. Sadly your probably in same boat as me

not young enough.

[napoleon_in_rags]

32. Its possible, but I'm also young enough to have been on the other side.

I was in my early 20s during the dot come boom. We talked to this venture capitalist, who said verbatim: "Something happens when you get old, you can't come up with this stuff anymore". I was flattered. In retrospect what I was programming for him was absolute garbage, but it was getting worshiped as this big thing. Of course it was just a means for him to milk money out of some naive other guy without tech knowledge, the dot com boom being the beginning of the scam culture that's broken our economy now. And of course I was too naive to see the sinister ramifications at the time. But the big thing is, nothing in computer science has actually changed, I'm 10 times better now than I was then, at least as far as the deep principles go. What has changed is I am unwilling to scam people, to be a 60 hour a week work slave to advance some assholes totalitarian wet dream to collect a bunch of private information on people which I know now will be sold out the back door to criminals, satisfied with pats on the head and being told about how smart "young people" like me are.

The "only young people can do it" narrative is total crap, I can tell you because I've been on both sides of it.

[boppers]

36. A CS degree is shit.

That's what they aren't telling you.

It. Is. Shit.

I ask people what open source programs they have worked on. What commits they made, how they have contributed so far.

Not what degree they have, because morons can buy degrees.

[napoleon_in_rags]

37. I take it you do hiring then?

If so, then seriously, help a brother out. You look for work on open source programs in what? What platforms? What skills? Are we talking a small project with a few members on Sourceforge, or larger projects where contributions require more review? If its OSS participation employers want, you got it. But what specific areas please?

[boppers]

79. I look for open source experience wherever it can be found....

Because most of the work I do is on scaling performance on PHP websites (4,000+ hits/sec per machine range), I usually look for experience in LAMP/LAPP stacks. However, when I've worked in Ruby shops they want rails/gems/(etc.) experiences. Perl shops are impressed by CPAN module work and Perl projects. Multi-stack houses like to see contributions spread out over a variety of technologies. Windows shops like to see Windows F/OSS work.

See where I'm going? The F/OSS project experience and job requirements are a way to match the two up.

In general the question "what open source projects have you worked on" is really a meta-question:
1. Have you been able to work in (often remote) teams with different people and personalities and politics? This is where experience in a large project (hundreds of developers or more) stands out.
2. What kinds of technology do you like enough to donate time/effort to improving? This exposes the technologies a person has placed personal investments into.
3. If you don't contribute, why? (Do you live and breathe code, or is it just a skill you learned in hopes of getting work)?
4. Can I see code that wasn't submitted as pristine "code samples", but working code, vetted and honed by yourself and others?
5. Can you integrate your code into, or maintain, existing code stacks? Lots of programmers re-invent the wheel all the time (at great cost), working with F/OSS requires both integration and maintenance skills.
6. Is all your F/OSS work in one place/stack/technology, even though you "learned" multiple languages, platforms, etc? Lots of folks list languages and platforms, on their resumes and applications, that they can "Hello world" in, but they don't actually like working in them (For example, I hate C# with a passion. I can fix it and maintain it, but I'd rather flip burgers than get a full time job with it, so it's not even *on* my resume). This is not a problem if a ruby shop matches up with a person who only does ruby in their off-hours, but for a PHP shop hiring a ruby advocate, it just produces problems.

As far as giving you specific areas, or specific projects, that kind of defeats points #2 and #6... it has to be areas you love, projects you love, platforms you love.

If you don't have a specific love yet, you might start out as a generalist, and figure it out from there, as you shed things you don't enjoy. If you want to know what languages to work in, maybe check TIOBE:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
...and try to get some "real world" (meaning, verifiable F/OSS) experience in the top 3-5 "popular" languages, while keeping in mind that the less popular languages have less employment opportunities, but sometimes higher paychecks. Who knows, maybe you'll "find your bliss" in C# networking, or lisp AI, or whatever.... but F/OSS gets you networking, and experience, and credentials, for the cost of your time and efforts without anybody "hiring" you.

PM me if you want to chat more, I tried to keep this brief-ish.

[Yavin4]

100. Wow. Your Post Is Fucking Brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant, and extremely helpful.

Good on you boppers.

[undeterred]

52. But if you don't have it or your degree is in something else

they use it to weed you out.

[boppers]

82. True dat.

Of course, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were both "college degree" dropouts.

It's a simple HR filter.

Or a simple "I suffered massive college debt, so you should too!" filter.

Either way, it's a filter for me: I will not work for people who value diploma mills over ability, and MIT counts as a diploma mill.

[undeterred]

51. I see lots of stuff posted for very high level jobs

and stuff for people with an infinite number of certifications. People with skills that don't usually go together. Who in the world are they looking for? 12 years of experience and people call me and want me to work for an entry level position with no benefits.

[trueblue2007]

65. they are lying about clerical jobs too. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE

WHO HAVE GREAT OFFICE SKILLS!!

THEY ARE LYING ABOUT THEY CAN'T GET SALES PEOPLE TOO.

[boppers]

80. Maybe they want people without caps-lock.

Just a thought.

[trueblue2007]

103. oh shut up.

stop being so darn critical. just a thought

[boppers]

105. How's that attitude working out?

I hope you're working, if yelling at people less.

[trueblue2007]

106. my attitude is working out just fine sweetie

you started nagging on me about having the cap lock on PART OF MY NOTE!

you need a spoonful of sugar??

[boppers]

108. I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!

(if you don't get the reference, see "Office Space")

[DainBramaged]

69. Let me correct: they are FUCKING LYING DISHRAGS about IT staff

liars.

[Samantha]

6. Could you please start a separate thread with these points

That is EXACTLY what is going on. Additionally, these employers combine two or three jobs into one, post it as "part-time" and then once someone is in the job, expect that person to work "off the clock" to finish the day's work of must-be-done asap tasks. "You should have completed all that in four hours, the time allowed, and the fact that you did not means you did not try hard enough to do so, so finish it up but don't charge me for the additional time it takes." I am amazed at how many people fall for this.

[Skittles]

9. I discovered this from laid off friends whose jobs were pimped overseas

they'd email me the "qualifications" for a certain job - they are unbelievable - yet when the job goes offshore the standards are SEVERELY lowered, as they very often seem to have trouble thinking and typing at the same time :o

[trueblue2007]

107. you are right.... ALL THE CUSTOMER SERVICE jobs in other countries

that USED TO BE HERE. Americans CAN do those jobs!!

I call customer service many times and get people who can't even speak english. THESE JOBS NEED TO BE BASED IN USA. No more "OUTSOURCED" --- after the movie and tv show.

[Posteritatis]

74. That sounds familiar; my job's FT but is basically three jobs at this point. (nt)

[defendandprotect]

8. +1 -- and over last decades many professions have been manipulated to create need

for "offshoring" -- from engineering to computer work -- on and on!

In the case of engineers -- they took in more students than needed --

and then used that to break salaries -- then after many left the profession

they argued that they needed to import workers.

[redqueen]

61. + 10^100

[Xithras]

66. Not as much as you seem to think. There's a lot of regionalism in IT availability.

I discussed this last year, but this is a good opportunity to mention it again.

I used to run an IT consulting firm, and the majority of my clients had to find a new support source when I closed the company down a couple of years ago. One of my clients went a different route, and instead decided to bring in a full time employee to handle their programming needs, as they were planning on some serious expansion. Because I had designed most of their systems, they asked me to help them hire someone and I agreed (for a price, of course).

The requirements were simple. A Java/C# web programmer with at least three years of practical experience in one of the languages and a working knowledge of the other (either way, we didn't even care which was which), and a BS or BA. They needed to demonstrate an understanding of software design, software documentation, and end-to-end project management. We needed to see at least two years of experience building commercial web applications (not design, but programming), and they needed to have at least a cursory knowledge of Facebook application integration and design and development processes for smartphone platforms (they needed NO experience with them, but simply had to demonstrate that they'd at least looked at it a little.)

After waiting seven months, opening the position four times, wading through more than 220 applications, interviewing 30 people, and skills-testing 7 of them, we finally found ONE applicant that was good enough. He didn't meet all of our qualifications, but he hit most of them, was willing to learn the rest, and demonstrated an aptitude to do it well. We hired him and immediately sent him off to training to fill in his lack of C# knowledge. Three months after completing the training, he quit and moved to the Bay Area. That company is now using consultants again.

What was the problem? Was it the pay? Nope, the pay was 50% over the median for the area. Was it a crappy company to work for? Nope, it was a relatively liberal company run by one of the nicest women you'll ever meet. Were the work expectations unrealistic? Nope, they were pretty standard for a small employer. Did the benefits suck? Not if you consider 100% paid healthcare and a matched 401k "sucking". The PROBLEM....was that the job was located in Turlock California.

"America" is more than a few dozen major urban areas. This country has thousands of towns and cities, and many of the smaller ones contain tens of thousands of employers who cannot find a decent IT person to save their lives (or, their data). If we'd opened that position in San Jose, we'd have had applicants lined up around the block. In Turlock? More than half of our applicants were the "I read a book once" types who didn't even come close to meeting the minimum requirements of the position. Many of the rest demanded San Francisco wages, even though the cost of living in Turlock is about a third of the COL in San Francisco (and frankly, many of them would have been laughed out of IT interviews in SF anyway). A huge amount had such narrow skillsets that they had no chance of being successful in a "general programming" position.

It's EASY to fill an IT position in New York, or Atlanta, or Dallas, or Los Angeles, or the SF Bay Area, or Portland. It's damned hard to fill a position like that in the less urbanized stretches of America. When you hear about employers complaining that IT positions are hard to find, it's often these more remote employers who are doing the complaining.

[Skittles]

72. NO SALE

the folk I know look for positions ALL OVER AMERICA and it is the SAME FUCKING STORY

[KamaAina]

75. Whaaa? Turlock is reverse-commutable from the outer reaches of the Bay Area

about an hour from Livermore, for instance. Indeed, many who can't afford SiliValley's sky-high housing costs commute in from the Central Valley.

[boppers]

81. FWIW, my last IT gig was three hours away.

Took 5 hours if there was snow in all the passes.

So, for an 8 hour work day, I could give 18 hours of time per day in the winter.

If you want details, I live in Portland, the gig was in Bend.

Commuting is not the solution.

[Yavin4]

99. That's The Fucking Truth. They Can't Find Employees at McD's Wages.

The typical McDonald's employee can be trained in a week or two which is paid for by McD's.

The typical ITer needs years of training, experience, and constant re-training which is paid for by the ITer.

Yet, employers want to pay both the same in wages.

[coalition_unwilling]

2. Bullshit - n/t

[Mojambo]

100% Grade A Bullshit. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

3. I hear the same thing, have for a few years, our schools are failing our children.

Our children are fine, brighter than ever.

But there's something terribly wrong with our schools.

Schools are my daily milieu, my passion, my career.

We've thrown out some of the most important classes and activities: arts, music, crafts, shop, cooking, sewing, tinkering, measuring, exploring, wondering, breaking things, fixing things, going outside, playing.

We've also got a culture that has lost all respect for the crafts and trades, blue collar craftsmen and women.

Time to fix it.

[ellisonz]

12. Too much focus on standardized testing...

...and not enough on producing intellectually curious human beings.

There should be more education in "breaking things" ;-)

[NYC_SKP]

13. Bravo: Breaking things, taking them apart, exploring, etc.

:thumbsup:

[ellisonz]

18. Chemistry.

B-)

[boppers]

84. How do you quantify "breaking things"?

Should teachers who do less "breaking things" be paid the same as teachers who do more "breaking things"?

[donco]

4. Double talk for

they are not between the ages of twenty something and forty something, willing to work for minimum wages with no benifits.

[Selatius]

30. Also, we are burning job applications so that we have an excuse to abuse the H1B visa program.

I saw IT on that list, predictably. They're lying in order to get waivers for H1B hires.

[Arctic Dave]

7. Bullshit.

In short, they want you to be über qualified and they want to pay peanuts.

[NYC_SKP]

10. Today's High School Graduates Have Far Lower Skills Than 20 Year Ago...

I will bet anything on that.

I'm seeing a lot of denial over this fact, and it's denial that's going to hurt our youth in the long run.

They need to be able to read a tape measure, trouble shoot a mechanical or electrical problem, understand human interactions in the workplace (soft skills).

I work with both high schools and employers and this article is reflective of what I'm seeing.

Denial of the problem is a condemnation of the very people who are not being served, our youth, our future.

Sad.

[CountAllVotes]

16. I couldn't agree more

As an ancient executive secretary of days long past, I find myself to be totally appalled by the level of English and overall lack of literacy I see today.

There is no more punctuation nor proper rules of grammar, etc. followed. I don't like reading things typed in all lower case letters. I find it an insult to the intent of our language which is English, not a series of letters such as r, u, and the number 4.

I was at the local Safeway a week or so ago and was told the the manager of that store doesn't know how to do simple division as he only knows how to use a calculator.

If we as a nation keep this level of illiteracy (at all levels) we'll soon be at the bottom of the list when it comes to producing quality students, educators and other qualified and highly sought after professionals. :(

:kick:

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. I think that the decline in HS workplace skills is because of cuts to voc. ed.

And I think it has caused a great many spinoff problems.

When I was in HS, you could take:
drafting
nursing
carpentry (the houses they built are still standing)
horticulture
electronics
business
offset printing
woodshop
metal shop

And this was in a little school which graduated 100 kids each year.

My kids see the world as an impenetrable black box, and tools are something you hand to dad. Since it's unfixable, if one can't download an app for it, they're at the mercy of those who went to college to learn these things.

My middle son is now in a college diesel tech class. I don't tell him this, but I'm dismayed that the skills he is learning now, I picked up through trial and error when I was 15. I can still remember sharing and learning engine rebuild tips with other students on the school bus.

[GreenStormCloud]

14. There is a shortage of OTR truck drivers.

OTR mean over-the-road, which means irregular route drivers. You don't have a route but deliver a load to a different cities depending on where it needs to go to. Most 18 wheel drivers are OTR. Companies are hiring rookie drivers, some even have their own training programs.

The life-style of an OTR driver sucks. You live out of the truck, sleep in the truck, don't have a regular wake/sleep cycle, get very little exercise, eat a LOT of truck stop food, and only get home for about three or four days a month. The rest of the month you drive everywhere in the U.S. The divorce rate of truckers is extremely high. So one can understand why there is a sortage of drivers.

[exboyfil]

46. Well they got that one covered

now that Mexican truck drivers are allowed to operate in the U.S.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. My 21yo son does this.

The training company doesn't pay all that well (but far better than min wage) but after 12 months experience he has many work options.

He's been doing it about 6 months and (because of the lifestyle issues) is now looking for a local gig, and has a high likelihood of finding one quickly.

[cherokeeprogressive]

77. I took an OTR job in Feb. Team driving. 10 on/ 10 off. I paid for my own training whereas

most of the other drivers signed an 8 month contract in exchange for free training. It was one of the best gambles I've ever taken.

I drove for 6 months then found a job driving for a local company making MORE money than when I was out on the road.

All in all though? I didn't really mind driving OTR, just hated being gone from home. I lucked out and found drivers in whose hands I wasn't uncomfortable placing my life in.

Driving commercially with no incidents/accidents for even a short while makes one a serious commodity.

[kwassa]

15. The Wall Street Journal trashed this concept today ...

but it is a subscription site.

They said, basically, that employers want to hire someone that is already very experienced and requires absolutely no training of any kind, which is neither realistic nor the way business in the US has traditionally operated. In previous years business would maintain internal training units, and management training organizations internally.

[Selatius]

28. They're only doing this because they want bigger profit margins. Naturally, they'd slash training.

And then try to outsource the training to trade schools and universities, but if there is very poor communication, the students who come out of them won't have skill sets that match up perfectly with what they want.

Worse yet, they can try to abuse the H1B visa program and get immigrants to work the jobs Americans once worked, for far less.

[SharonAnn]

35. That's a terrific goal, but not realistic. Reality bites. Everyone need some orientation.

And when it comes to IT programming, you have to learn and understand the architecture and style the organization uses. You have to learn how the development process works. You have to learn how projects are handled in the organization.

Those are actually harder for many IT people to learn, primarily because the organization thinks that only knowing how to program is necessary. Fiddlesticks! Supercoders also need teamwork, organization, and general people skills.

[brewens]

17. I can tell you we have problems getting good employees at the

blood center I work for. I'm talking about 14 or 15 bucks an hour for minimally experienced phlebotomists (people that draw blood). Anybody with real experience starts at higher wages and has a good chance of being up above $20 before too long.

The last two were a kid that didn't know how to get to bed at a reasonable hour to be ready to work in the morning and a 40 something woman that was a whining lazy ass. Neither lasted long and I wonder how they bluffed their way through the interviews.

The area I'm in is fairly low cost of living so those wages aren't bad. The medical and other benefits are good as well. You'd think we'd have more good people after the jobs. Maybe it's a real bad string of bad luck? I hope so. It really can be kind of a fun job. Blood donors are the nicest people you could hope to deal with. I'd like to get back to having a steady crew to work with. For months I've had them sending staff from our HQ to fill in.

[provis99]

21. all they need to do is post a sign saying "Jobs, $15 hour starting".

If people don't know about the jobs, they aren't going to apply for them.

[Tsiyu]

85. phlebotomists are in somewhat high demand

with all the pain management clinics, nursing homes, labs, hospitals, etc.


They've been doing two-day training here for $350, trying to increase numbers. Which is good if it's quality training.

We need to stop spending money on prisons and wars and bank bailouts and start training Americans for all these jobs they're supposedly not able to fill.


Maybe a higher wage would be an incentive to keep good help when a particular skill is in demand? The free market or something like that...?

[provis99]

20. what a bunch of lying shit.

They claim they can't find teachers? Drivers? who are they fucking kidding.

[NYC_SKP]

23. Can't find qualified people, meaning literate, able to pass basic skills tests, clean records...

...soft skills, things like that.

Not a bunch of lying shit, I live with it every single day.

It's hard to find good help, high school graduates aren't coming out with the skills they need.

No shit.

[Fumesucker]

33. Not to worry..

Arne Duncan and Barack Obama are going to fix education, the problem is we just haven't been trying the NCLB program hard enough..

Now we have RTTT, which is basically NCLB on steroids or maybe meth.

[seabeyond]

47. i look at my sons schedule, now at junior in hghschool and i have to know WHAT

they are being deprived of in their education that we got. my kids schedule is way beyond what we had three decades ago. always has been

[NYC_SKP]

62. I think the problem isn't limited to the schools, schedule, classes...

...but extends to the attitudes, expectations, and values of members in our society, and the different activities available to young ones these days.

But I'm just crotchety old farm boy who learned at an early age how to use tools and had lots of free time to explore.

We had one pair of shoes for school and church and another pair for everything else, not much of a care for consumerism.

We were scared to death of missing work at school or being late, we weren't given second/third/fourth chances and then left to graduate anyway.

I have to go to work now...

:donut:

[GreenStormCloud]

67. See my post above, #14, regarding drivers. Drivers are in short supply. N/T

[Ikonoklast]

78. Not true, there are plenty of qualified drivers in this country

That is propaganda put out by the ATA, there are currently more CDL holders in this country than there are driving jobs.

There are, however, plenty of people that got a belly full of working for starvation wages and left the industry.

The current turnover rate reported by the ATA by its members is 79% per annum.

And that's the average, there are companies out there that replace 100% OR MORE of their drivers every year.

[GreenStormCloud]

88. There were companies that had 100+% replacement when I was driving in the 1990s.

Yes, there are lots of CDLs. When someone quits the industry they rarely get their driver's liscense changed to just a regular driver. Why bother? The problem is that the lifestyle sucks. The pay of an OTR driver who is out of training is NOT starvation wages. Most companies pay a rookie out of training about 27 cents per mile. You can expect to average about 500 miles per day. That comes out to about $135 per day. You won't get rich but you won't starve either.

I currently work at a truck stop so I am well in touch with drivers and with what is happening in the industry.

[TygrBright]

22. Wait, what?!? "Sales representatives?" REALLY??

Because, seriously, I only know about two kinds of "sales representatives," and NEITHER should be in short supply.

Type 1: They CALL it "sales representative," but it's actually a basic sales position. The only qualifications it requires are patience, a reasonably cheerful attitude (or at least an excellent sense of proportion) and a willingness to be copiously shat on for slave wages. It requires very little in the way of skills, and requires fairly minimal training.

Type 2: Actual sales representation for a specific firm and/or specific product line. May involve a lot of travel, and requires a fair amount of physical stamina, decent people skills, and a moderate ability to organize and manage detail. And a willingness to be shat on for slave wages plus a possible commission. It requires little in the way of skills, but does require a certain amount of training. In a few cases where the product being represented is highly technical, technical skills may be an advantage.

hmmmm.... Looking at these descriptions, I can't IMAGINE why they'd be having trouble filling these jobs.

Unless it has something to do with the ratio of being shat on to paycheck size.

sourly,
Bright

[Initech]

24. Bullshit - the candidates are out there, these assholes just don't want to hire.

[OHdem10]

26. My eyes are rolling. I have heard this line --I cannot remember

under several Presidents and Congresses, when this
lame old line from business was not rolled out.

In todays job market, we have so many people withour
jobs, yes educated peoople of all ages, others not
as educated of all ages, why not have these businesses
with all these jobs start a few on the job training
programs. They can literally cherry pick for best
applicants. Is this too much to ask?

Knowing how much pain is in this country, it is callous
of Businesses to just hold unfilled positions when they
could make a contribution to society by training
some people.

[RegieRocker]

27. B.S. if they don't post the positions they are wanting to fill.

[lonestarnot]

29. Another corporate scam. Advertise jobs that do not really exist.

[dd2003]

31. Most jobs are outsourced to India..

I know my company is beginning to transition.. I googled the salaries in India..$3700 a year in US dollars....We all make over 70..... The worse part is we have to assist the Indians on all their mistakes.

[undeterred]

53. India is coming here to take over some American companies

like American Girl. They should call it Indian Girl.

[Yavin4]

101. 50 to 1

That's the Rupee to USDollar exchange rate. As long as it stands, IT jobs will go overseas.

[Duer 157099]

34. ...who are willing to work for peanuts

it always boils down to that

[Grown2Hate]

38. I don't disagree with the sentiments down-thread, however...

...the company that I work for has been actively trying to hire people for a while now, and we can't seem to find qualified people. Granted, what we do is highly specialized, but... we even held a job fair today (hoping to hire 10 new people for our department). And FOUR people showed up. One of whom, brought in a one-sentence resume ("I'm great at EVERYTHING."). So, at least in SOME instances, it's actually true.

[Fumesucker]

39. Is your company willing to train someone starting at an entry level?

Or is it another one wanting ten years of experience in a field that has only existed for five?

[dd2003]

40. you should list the field and what your looking for

perhaps some people here could be qualified and you meet a match

[Grown2Hate]

76. Sorry, that was a bit of a post-n-run. PM me for details, but if you are in the Phoenix AZ

area and have at least 5 years of highly skilled customer service experience (preferably in the medical field), we have some openings. For some reason I think it's not a good idea to just advertise the name of the company, but we're roughly in the medical field (however, I had no medical experience; I'm just a quick learner and have a LOT of management/customer service experience; I've been there 3 months and they seem to love me to death).

[renate]

41. I really truly don't understand why there aren't tax breaks for companies that hire U.S. citizens

I have absolutely nothing against the citizens of other countries; they have a right to make a buck (or whatever their currency is) as much as anybody else if the opportunity arises. I certainly wouldn't want to live the life of someone in a third-world country who sews discount clothing or makes athletic shoes or makes anything labeled "Made in China," and if they get a job that lets them save a few bucks to improve their lives and the lives of their families, my only wish is that their pay and living conditions could be improved.

But I honestly don't understand why there aren't tax incentives for hiring U.S. workers for jobs that would otherwise be outsourced. Wouldn't that be popular with EVERY voter in the United States?

I really would like to know. Sure, the big-donation corporate guys want to hire cheap labor, but 99% of voters would be in favor of cutting back on outsourcing. Don't the sheer number of votes outweigh the donations? Apparently not... but I don't get it.

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

44. It wouldn't be popular with the voters who matter..

The ones who vote with their checkbook far more than in the booth.

They want their cheap labor and the government is going to help them get it.

[JDPriestly]

42. Lots and lots of experienced workers in their 50s and 60s can't get jobs.

These employers just don't want to pay fair wages to qualified employees.

Unbelievable -- Drivers? Secretaries/administrative assistants? Those are precisely the jobs that many people in their 50s and 60s who have been laid off and can't get new jobs are qualified to do.

[Donnachaidh]

43. Manpower should be ashamed for flat-assed LYING about this bullshit

I don't buy this line of bullshit period.

[justiceischeap]

48. I don't know that they aren't lying but when I last used ManPower

the folks who used it weren't "professionals" at all. Most of the jobs offered (at that time) was for unskilled labor. I use a staffing agency for my job now but I went through a specialized staffing agency (I'm a web developer) that deals in IT/Design professionals and that's all they deal with. I'm sure my staffing agency isn't the only one who specializes like that.

So, companies could indeed be offering jobs through ManPower but the people that are going into MP to get jobs may not be qualified for them. I'd guess it's a problem with the HR departments not knowing to look for other agencies to increase their talent list.

Another issue too is that a lot of these companies hiring through temp agencies for professional positions won't consider people not from the area or reimburse moving costs.

[newfie11]

45. I am a registered radiological Technologist (x-ray tech)

I have worked all over America. Never had a problem finding a job. I retired 5 years ago and I am now hearing that the jobs are very few out there. Recent grads are working jobs out of the field because there are no openings.
So even in medical there are problems.

[Horse with no Name]

58. Nurses too

There is a lot of ageism involved here OR more precisely, the fact that the older medical workers cost LOTS more than the younger ones.

A lot of the younger nurses that I have worked around show no fear and if they make a mistake, oh well...even if it kills someone. There is a lot less reverence to the awesome responsibilities than there used to be.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

49. I can't speak for the nation but here

in my little world, for this construction job where I am the HR person in charge, we've had a very very difficult time finding employees who can legally work in the U.S., who have experience in industrial construction for water and wastewater treatment plants, who don't use drugs or alcohol, who show up and who don't go to jail very often.

Our pay is good (especially for this particular area) and we provide health insurance after 90 days for $18 per week as well as a 401(K) plan after 6 months which is 100% vested and the company matches dollar per dollar up to 4% of contributions.

We've been here 3 years and we are almost done, but we have no one still with us who started 3 years ago. Some of our employees ended up going to jail for various things, some turned up positive on drug and alcohol screens (FYI: not marijuana, but confirmed lab positives for methamphetamines and cocaine), some were stealing from the job, some stopped coming to work. In short, it's been very difficult for us to maintain consistency vis-a-vis the quality (or lack thereof) of the local labor force.

[Puzzledtraveller]

50. I am a state social worker

there is indeed a noticeble defecit in "skilled" and available workers in my community for the types of jobs and careers that are available.

[watercolors]

54. That is such BS!!!

[mmonk]

55. They have always said that while they outsource.

They want low wage workers.

[Horse with no Name]

56. The other half of that is....THAT WILL WORK FOR $10 hour

They want highly skilled professionals at meager wages so they can have the obscene profits they think they deserve.

Let's be honest here...IF I had a degree that the marketable wage was $50 and hour or more--I would sack groceries for minimum wage before I would give THEM my experience.
I doubt I am the only one that feels that way.

[eppur_se_muova]

63. Great thread to go with this one ... Companies are expecting the wrong things!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=634359&mesg_id=634359

[newspeak]

64. bullshite!!!!

hubby has been in telecommunications since he was nineteen. Has worked in every area except engineering. He now is working for a temp agency for cheap-his assignment now is working for a telephone company who has hired temp work. He's in his fifties and has put in numerous applications. Some say he is over qualified and since his last position was a state manager, they have reservations hiring him or is it his age? My cousin who has been an electrician since he was eighteen just lost his union job and is now working away from home in another state-he is also in his fifties.

When a job fair is in town, thousands attend. If there are openings for jobs, hundreds line up to apply. There are qualified people out there, the corporations want labor for cheap, and there are corporations doing away with benefits. They just want even more profit, while screwing labor.

[JohnnyRingo]

68. They should add: "At the wages they're offering".

It's natural for a business to desire the very best for the very least, and a recession makes it easier for employers to use the motivational statement "...and you're luck to have this job".

I think employers have gone beyond the bounds of normal greed to expect job candidates to work at a pay that rivals that of an intern.

[leeroysphitz]

89. Exactly right.

I watch the want ads. These people are asking men and women with familes who have spent 5 or 10 years learning a trade to come and work for the same wages as an inexperienced candidate in their 20s. Now they act shocked that all of a sudden there is a "shortage" of qualified applicants.

[SoCalDem]

71. What they are really saying:

They cannot find "qualified" workers who are willing to work for less than they can live on

[Posteritatis]

73. Maybe their def of "qualified" is the problem. How many refuse to hire the unemployed? (nt)

[NNN0LHI]

83. This might be bullshit but how many unemployed skilled trades workers do we have on this thread?

I am one. But I am only out of work because I am retired.

Even at my age(56), and in this economy bet I could find a job in my trade if I had to by this Friday.

Don

[boppers]

86. You (perhaps made unintentionally) make many points.

"unemployed skilled trades workers"

"Unemployed" is easy. I think we can all agree that such a thing is a social issue now.

"Skilled" is a little more complex. Our education system does not produce skills. By design. It produces knowledge (kind of). Not skills.

"Trades" is where the ivory tower falls down. Some tech colleges target trades, many don't.

"Workers" we have. People who can't write a grammatically correct email, or can't use a language in a clear way, we have in spades. We have them in such proportions that they're occupying random locations, wondering why the whole system is bullshit. They're being joined by English professors, who also see the system as bullshit.

[NNN0LHI]

95. I think the words "skilled trades", may be causing some confusion?

No one can become a skilled trades person in high school. To become a skilled trades person one must complete an 8000 hour apprenticeship. Which consists of a combination of schooling and on the job training. That takes about 4 years to accomplish. When someone completes such an apprenticeship they are issued a Journeyman card similar to this one:



Just want to make sure we are on the same page here.

Don

[Fumesucker]

87. I was skilled trade at one time and have a family member who still is..

He's your age and scrambling hard to make ends meet, I know a lot of others who are in the same boat.

It's been my experience that a good bullshit artist who is a less skilled worker will get the job over a better worker who is less socially adept. Now that person may not actually keep the job very long although that is by no means for sure if they are a really good bullshitter but they get it over the better worker very often.

My relative is top of his trade in skills but not a particularly talented at the self promoting bullshit it takes to stay working regularly in a down economy.

[NNN0LHI]

92. I wouldn't work at a place where being a "bullshit artist", can land someone a job

If they don't have the actual credentials(A journeyman's card), to do job I wouldn't want to be working anywhere near them.

Too dangerous.

There are some factories around here that hire shade tree mechanics to try and to do skilled trades work. I read about them in the newspaper when one of them screws up and either kills himself or a fellow worker and the ambulance needs to haul them away.

I wouldn't work at any of those hellholes for no money.

Couldn't get a job in the trades at the place I retired from by being a "bullshit artist", even when they were hiring. Needed that journeyman's card to get in the door. Being socially adept never came into play. They just wanted to see that card.

Don

[Fumesucker]

97. Then you wouldn't work down here..

It's really as simple as that.

Not everywhere has union positions available, union membership was never high here and has been dropping along with the rest of the country for decades as you well know.

In my experience those who don't notice the bullshit artists get hired preferentially are mostly the bullshit artists themselves.

[Tsiyu]

90. I think Employees here are saying they can't fill jobs

that don't pay enough to live on.

Could it be that many American workers are fed up with the job hunt? I won't go into what all a modern-day American job hunt entails, but those who have been there know what I mean.

If I see "$8/hr" for a clerical position where I can tell I'll be doing three peoples' jobs for less than one person's pay, well Hell No, I'm not going for that job. I'm going to laugh and move on.

American workers have really had enough all the way around. They are too fed up and exhausted to take crap wages with no benefits only to be used up by some middle management, unstable corporate creeps.

Only when their backs are to the wall are they accepting the paltry pay in the "New World O' Labor."

Manpower pays more? They get more qualified applicants.

Supply and demand, suckers....

[boppers]

91. Hey, are there any US folks who can argue x.500 vs. LDAP?

Seriously.

Americans (US) seem to be years behind technology changes. Both X.500 and LDAP are old as fuck.

Java kiddies don't know it.

They (the kids) come out of colleges totally ignorant.

We're teaching our kids based on tech from 50 years ago. Java? Ancient. C? Ancient.

Why aren't we teaching "our future" to write new languages?

[Sky Masterson]

93. "Qualified" = "Won't work for slave wages"

..

[mainer]

98. You can't outsource plumbers and electricians

I know they're pretty overworked here where I live. My plumber's been trying to find a partner for years, but can't find anyone. He can't keep up with all the house calls.

[Initech]

104. WRONG!! Employers aren't willing to PAY qualified candidates what they're worth.

It has jack shit to do with how they're hiring or not. We have to stop with this "who can make the most profit" contest. It's getting revolting.