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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 04:02 PM
Original message
US Army Assaults Its Biggest Fan
One of the most valuable benefits of putting political action into the form of nonviolent encampments is that we learn each other's stories as we occupy our public parks and squares. Here's a story from the October2011 occupation in Freedom Plaza, Washington, D.C. There are many more, and we'd like to hear yours when you join us.

Aristine Maharry is 29 years old and now lives in Freedom Plaza. She grew up in a very military family, with members of her family having participated in every major U.S. war going back to the war for independence, and with members of every generation having joined the military.

Maharry's family did not encourage her to aspire to a military career, but -- as in many such stories I've heard -- actions spoke more loudly than words. Maharry was proud of her father's military experience. She hoped from a very young age to join the U.S. Army. She grew up playing at army with her half-brothers. They would flip the couch on its side and toss pretend grenades. She loved the board game Risk. The biggest holiday in Aristine's family was the Fourth of July. She doesn't say she bled red white and blue. She says she bled green, Army green. She wanted to serve her country and other people. She was willing to die for her country. She was proud of her country.

Aristine was a good student and a good athlete. At age 7 she tested with an IQ of 185. She was placed in gifted and talented classes in all of the many public schools she attended. She got good grades, ran track, and was president of the Future Business Leaders of America at West Potomac High School in Northern Virginia, where at 16 she dual enrolled at George Mason University. She graduated from high school at 18 in the year 2000, was married the next January and pregnant in February.

Aristine knew that the military would be reluctant to enlist a mother of a child under 1 year of age. She hoped to take part in the Green to Gold program, enlisting and eventually becoming an officer. Her own father had dropped out of college to enlist and fight in Vietnam. She admired that history. However, when her first son was nine months old, Aristine became pregnant again. She headed to the recruiter's office when her second son turned one in May 2004. She had a family and a good job in management training new personnel in the pharmacy department of Liberty Medical Supply in Florida. But recruiters' job is to recruit, and Maharry didn't require any persuading.

She arranged to train at the same camp her father had trained at, Fort Leonardwood in Missouri. She headed there in December 2004, leaving behind a husband and two little boys for the holidays. Aristine says it was a very sad time for her, very difficult, and also very cold in Missouri. But, she thought to herself: "All the other soldiers have families too. They do it. I'm not different. I can serve too. I want to do my part as an American." She signed up to become a combat medic, hoping to care for injured soldiers.

The first few weeks of training in January were extremely hard, she says: lots of pushups, not a lot of sleep, but a great deal of hostility from drill sergeants conditioning recruits to face hostility in battle, struggling with their own post-traumatic stress, or simply acting out their sadism. Aristine characterized it as "ten times worse than in the movies." She was in Charlie Company, Third Battalion, 10th Unit, 4th Platoon. Her platoon had four drill sergeants, three of them male named Davis, Harris, and something like Fontana (she doesn't remember this name clearly), and one female drill sergeant named Gilliard.

The woman sergeant was not what you would call gentle and loving. Aristine witnessed Gilliard yank a male soldier across a desk and injure him. His offense had been to request a pen. Fontana (or whatever his exact name was) made Gilliard look sweet and delicate by comparison. He was shorter and meaner than the others, according to Maharry. She saw him slam a female private named Barr up against a wall.

Aristine is amazingly understanding of this abuse. The sergeants, she says, had just done tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. The training was their rest period between tours of combat. They were all, she believes, dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Aristine's understanding this is even more amazing considering what happened next.



Aristine was doing pushups along with the other privates. It was dark. Fontana came up behind her and kicked her hard repeatedly in the pelvis. The next morning, with her 50-pound rucksack, Aristine was not able to keep up on the run in her usual way. One of the drill sergeants, Harris, told her she would have to report to "sick call."

That night, Private Barr came and got Maharry. The two of them went to the military police (MP) and told their stories of abuse. The MPs sent them right back without indicating that they would do anything at all. The reports that the MPs took down may or may not still exist among their records.

The next morning Aristine reported to sick call. Before she did, Gilliard whispered in her ear that she needed to say she had slipped on ice, which was a complete fabrication. An X-ray showed a fractured pelvis. Aristine was put in the Army hospital on the base from January 8, 2005 to February 1st or 2nd, immobilized in bed with a morphine drug for pain. She was then sent on 30-day convalescent leave with heavy pain killers. If she did not return after the 30 days, she was told, the Army would come and find her. Through the course of her initial processing and training, she had already been advised repeatedly that going AWOL (absent without official leave) was punishable by anything up to death.

Aristine says she was "terrified" and "scared to death." She didn't tell her husband what had happened, as she was afraid that if he raised the issue she would be punished when she returned to the Army. When she did return, she pleaded with a physical therapist not to send her back to the same unit. It turned out that it was standard practice not to do that. Aristine worked hard, she says, to recover fast in the Physical Therapy Rehabilitation Program (PTRP) because those who did not, the "hold-overs," would be kept in separate rooms in barracks with their units' drill sergeants and would often be raped. Aristine did not use the word "rape" but indicated sex that was unwanted. "Rape" or "command rape" is an accurate term.

Unfortunately, the First Sergeant for the same Company she had been in before came and requested that Aristine return to the same unit. She passed a test and was returned. Once back, she was kept in a separate room, but resisted the drill sergeants' attempts at sex, she says. A couple of female holdovers, she says, were also kept in private rooms. They would be taken out at night, and would cry endlessly when they were returned.

Aristine was now in the fourth week of training, with the same company, platoon, and drill sergeants (except for Fontana who was no longer there), but all new privates, her original group having long since graduated. Aristine was miserable, terrified, and "crying, crying, crying." "How," she asked herself, "could they send me back here?" The First Sergeant told her: "You'd better not open your mouth about what happened last time." Maharry was still on lots of pain medicine and suffering mental pain as well.

Privates are all assigned "battle buddies," and Aristine's was a man named Principe. Privates objected that she couldn't have a male battle buddy. The sergeants said that she could and that it happens in war. Luckily, Principe was a decent person, or -- perhaps more to the point -- a person who had not been in combat and was not placed in a command position. But Principe left early, during the eighth week. There was one more week to go.

During these later weeks of training, the drill sergeants were not as hard on the privates, and focused more on building camaraderie within the unit. They also brought the privates into the way the Army thinks. Drill Sergeant Davis said to whole platoon, as Aristine recalls: "It does not matter what happens in a room as long as two or more of you have the same story. That's the party line."

Aristine, like every private, slept with her weapon, knew its parts and how to assemble it, and gave it a name. Her gun was called "Blue." Among the chants used in training were "We are Charlie Company and we like to party: drink blood drink blood all night long," and another that began "Sharpen our machetes!"

Aristine was treated to particular abuse through these weeks. She was frequently awakened during the night and deprived of sleep. For weeks, she resisted the advances of the First Sergeant, Drill Sergeant Davis, and Drill Sergeant Kitchen. Aristine learned to sleep sitting straight up in the daytime.

During the final week, the First Sergeant called for her at night and said "We know what you did with your battle buddy" and "We know you're selling pain killers." He claimed that Principe had accused her of selling her pain killers. She knew that Principe would not have said that. She had no use for money in basic training, she desperately needed the pain killers, and the accusation named no party she'd sold to or any other details. There were no witnesses, and the accusation was false. There was never any trial or finding, just an accusation. The Army threatened to bring Aristine up on charges under Article 15 of the Universal Code of Military Justice. She refused to sign their forms, and they dropped the matter.

Aristine says that frequently she would cry as her Army superiors threatened her, repeatedly, for weeks. They would point out that she never received any letters in the mail. They claimed that nobody would know if they "took care of her." Remarks included "We know how to make people shut up" and "We can make you be quiet forever." Aristine says she took these as clear threats to kill her or imprison her, and that these threats were offered on multiple occasions.

Aristine injured her arm, and a doctor agreed not to treat her so that she could ship out, which was what she wanted: to escape Missouri.

Aristine's birth mother showed up out of the blue. She had been an Army Captain. She had also been a model for ROTC posters and "Babes of the Military" calendars. Aristine was reluctant to tell her mother the true story, terrified that the Army would find out she'd talked and kill her or lock her away in prison. So Aristine told her mother the things she'd seen done to other female privates. She told her mother the Army was trumping up charges to keep her quiet. Aristine's mother said she knew how it worked, and she kept quiet.

When I spoke with Aristine this week she said that she was still scared to be speaking about it. This is even more understandable considering the rest of the story.

After graduating, and being denied permission to walk in the graduation ceremony as punishment for the baseless accusation of selling drugs, Aristine shipped out to Fort Sam Houston near San Antonio, Texas. She was treated for her arm injury. She could not be sent on convalescent leave again so soon. Instead, she was sent to wait for a review by a medical board. Many she spoke with had been waiting two or more years for the medical board to review them. They could not leave for holidays or visit families. Aristine sank into depression. She felt unable to sit and do nothing, not to mention being constantly made fun of for not going to war.

She tried to switch from combat medic to a paperwork job that she could handle. She was told she was not fit for any duty until the medical board reviewed her case.

She tried to quit the Army with no benefits. They told her, she recounts: "Because we broke you, we have to fix you."

I asked "Like Iraq?"

Aristine: "Yeah, like Iraq."

A chaplain declined to help.

A physical therapist declined to help.

A woman, possibly named Rodriguez, told Aristine that if she "pulled the same s--- here as in basic" she would "personally hunt you down and take care of you."

Aristine went to a psychiatric clinic and said she was considering suicide. She really was. The clinic made her sign a statement that she would not kill herself. Then they sent her right back to hurry up and wait for the medical board.

Aristine left most of her possessions behind and went AWOL.

She was afraid to return to her family. She still does not want to face her father. She is deeply ashamed of having failed to succeed in the military. People had warned her she would fail. And she failed, or at least viewed it that way, even knowing that what was done to her was not her fault. She wished she'd listened to her colleagues at work who had told her "You're too pretty," and "Girls like you shouldn't join the military." She had taken those comments as insults to her pride. She now says they were right but didn't go far enough. "It's no place for anybody," she now concludes.

Before joining up, Aristine had contacted both of her parents. Her father had never spoken about Vietnam. He now said "I saw things in the Army that no one should ever be exposed to." He told her not to do it. She took that as fatherly protection and thought to herself "I'm stronger than he thinks." He had received medals in Vietnam, she points out, but he'd also returned with "shell shock" or PTSD. Loud sounds would cause him to throw something or hit someone. He suffered tunnel vision in crowded places, and Aristine says she had the same symptom for a while.

Aristine went AWOL on July 5th ("my independence day"). She went to Florida and picked up three jobs, and then a job in New York. But in New York in November 2006, she had a checkbook stolen and reported it to the police. She did not face prosecution for going AWOL. But she was required to report to Fort Knox in Kentucky and sign out, along with many others in her same position -- many women and men too, all suffering injuries, many from training and some from combat. They were made to put on Army uniforms and ordered about. She had to write out her story for a judge. She was told she could not speak with a judge. She was not told she could hire a lawyer. The Army may still have the report she wrote out. She was given a less than honorable discharge.

Aristine tried to reconcile with her husband. They tried counseling. She did not believe she could become pregnant anymore. But she did, and the pregnancy was very hard on her, her third son being born a month early. Doctors told her insurance would not cover problems related to military injuries. So Aristine went to the Dept. of Veterans Affairs (VA) and asked to change her discharge to honorable and to obtain health coverage. She again had to write down her whole story, and this time she left a copy with her birth mother. She was now advised that she could have had a lawyer at Fort Knox.

Aristine is now on her own, but has joined together with a growing crowd of activists opposing the entire direction in which our war economy is dragging our nation and the world. Many people are finding the strength to tell their stories, and finding power in joining them together with others'.

Aristine Maharry thinks the military should release injured people to their families and treat them through the VA. She's seen a woman forced to stay in a hotel, forbidden to see her family, while her family lived an hour and a half away. For what purpose?

Aristine thinks the Army should allow stretching during training to avoid countless shin injuries in women and men.

She thinks her story is similar to a great many others. She's found the strength to talk after six years and in the midst of a nonviolent occupation. "The Army is keeping people quiet," she says, "many, many people. Victims are sent to their attackers to ask for help."

In school, Aristine says, she learned that America is always the hero, there to fix things and to help the rest of the world. "If it weren't for us, the world would be lost!" But, she adds, you don't learn the effects that wars have on people.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. These things don't happen in our military - it is an obvious slander.
K & R
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judesedit Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. You've either got your head in the mud or you're one of the abusers
Wake up!
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I think he just forgot the sarcasm tag.
K&R
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I actually thought the 'K & R' obviated the need for it. nt
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. Me too...
n/t
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Quite a story. n/t
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. WOW !
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks. K & R
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sounds like the Soviet Red Army. There, they had no respect for the rule of law.
The military is more and more becoming a true imperial military force, with garrisons scattered all over the world.
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MattSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
43. Uh, you DO have a link to back that up, don't you?
Because I KNOW people who have served in the Soviet Red Army.

While I have no doubt that these types of things happen in all armies everywhere, YOU are implying that it was routine in the Soviet Army.

Back that up...
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Having a difficult time with this.
"Aristine Maharry thinks the military should release injured people to their families and treat them through the VA. She's seen a woman forced to stay in a hotel, forbidden to see her family, while her family lived an hour and a half away. For what purpose?

Aristine thinks the Army should allow stretching during training to avoid countless shin injuries in women and men."


These are the final thoughts of a rape survivor?

I do not doubt the rape. I do not doubt the shit treatment by NCO's.

I just find the last part of it to be rotten to the core. LIke the author needed another hundred words to fill the article.

Makes the main point of the essay fade into suspicion.


As though there were an agenda.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. she did NOT say she was raped
reread
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ah...
This is the passage that I misread.


"Aristine says she was "terrified" and "scared to death." She didn't tell her husband what had happened, as she was afraid that if he raised the issue she would be punished when she returned to the Army. When she did return, she pleaded with a physical therapist not to send her back to the same unit. It turned out that it was standard practice not to do that. Aristine worked hard, she says, to recover fast in the Physical Therapy Rehabilitation Program (PTRP) because those who did not, the "hold-overs," would be kept in separate rooms in barracks with their units' drill sergeants and would often be raped. Aristine did not use the word "rape" but indicated sex that was unwanted. "Rape" or "command rape" is an accurate term."

Another poorly written paragraph that I read, poorly.

The threat of rape for hold overs?? Really??

Maybe.
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. Vet to Vet - we both know rape happens way too often in our army
however, not saying that she knew, suspected or heard about it is an offense. Under this guide of blowing the whistle, presumably to warn others, help those affected, and prevent future occurrences, she doesnt actually seem to be doing that much.

and when did OWS turn into trash the military with crazy broad brush strokes?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I know it does, but this kind of article does those people
a complete disservice.

And, yes - when DID OWS turn into "trash the military" ??
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. So she couldn't handle boot camp...
I know this type.

I will be the first to admit that the system should be improved to get her out the door faster and easier.

The process takes too long as it is.
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
34. no, only that she was held in a facility where EVERYONE ELSE WAS
but somehow she managed to come through that unscathed. Always "just enough" drama. But not too much. Allegations and allegations, but no specifics. No charges. Even now that she is discharged, she could still press charges. Wouldnt that be the right thing to do?
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. k/r
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. If this is going on in boot camp, then the kill teams are just the tip...
...of the iceberg.

There's not just one toxic platoon out there raping 14 year old girls and killing them and their families. There are many. AND they enjoy the full protection of their superiors.

Those caught raping girls in Okinawa (and around other major permanent bases) weren't "bad apples", just the idiots who thought they could solo.

Abu Grahib, and other (better hidden) examples of prisoner abuse, were carefully engineered processes. Nothing so crass as direct orders to abuse prisoners, simply a set of perfectly reasonable requirements AND a very deliberate failure to provide proper and necessary oversight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment">The Stanford Prison Experiment, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment">The Milgram Experiment combined with thousands of years of known wartime abuses tells us what happens when soldiers are left to their own devices.

We know exactly what leads to razed villages and pillaged towns. We know what breeds atrocity.

All it takes is a blind eye.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Bingo!
We no longer have an army full of "heroes". We have thugs incorporated. I do not support the troops and advise everyone and anyone NOT to join up and have every single one of your civil rights stripped away. After reading accounts like this, I am appalled at being an American.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. it does seem as if the military breeds psychopaths
very disturbing all the way around
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. +1000
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. I don't understand how someone that smart (IQ 185) could be so gungho about going into the
military. Nor can I see how someone that smart would get pregnant right after high school. I believe the abuse-- no doubt the military is FUCKED UP. But this poor girl was brainwashed.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. What mom would leave her two babies, husband and a secure well-paying job
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 09:45 AM by TwilightGardener
to go into basic training? If she wanted to be in the army that bad, why not go through officer training school at least? It's really an odd decision.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. Well, First, Officer Candidate School lasts longer than basic training
And without something like ROTC or a college degree, you can't just go straight to OCS. So it's not an odd decision, really.

Secondly, throughout my five years in the military and longer experience with people and their families who remain in the military, it's usually a highly personal decision as to why they'd join. A lot of moms out there would join the military because it means steady pay and in most cases incredible medical benefits for the entire family. Further, mom would only be leaving for a few months and then most likely would have been deployed somewhere in the US where her family could move to.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I thought she had a degree, my bad--just said she ENROLLED. That said, I am married
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 02:17 PM by TwilightGardener
to someone who went through both basic and OTS, they were about the same length of time. I still am not buying many elements of this woman's story, as a mother, as having medical training, and being married to a career military guy. A lot of this strains credulity.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. yeah, I agree
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 02:21 PM by spooked911
am somewhat doubtful about parts of it, though not the abuse so much
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
37. I have yet to meet a high IQ person
who tells anyone what a high IQ they have.
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occupyeverywhere Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
16. The Department of Defense is a rogue government.
That exists within our Federal government, like a parasite it is draining our society. It has it's own rules that are outside of the law with no oversight.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
17. Is there a link, David?
Or is this a DU original? I assume it's your piece...

K&R


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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Here is link to the International News Magazine article by David Swanson:
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 09:40 AM by 1776Forever
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. "In school, Aristine says, she learned that America is always the hero,
there to fix things and to help the rest of the world. "If it weren't for us, the world would be lost!" But, she adds, you don't learn the effects that wars have on people."

God damn, when are we as a nation gong to give up this childish view we have of ourselves? All the Vietnam Vets said the same thing, their stories almost exactly alike. I have a lot of sympathy for what this woman went through. But I'm really tired of hearing that as an excuse as to why people thought it would be a great idea to join the military and make the world safe for democracy. As a nation, we've told so many lies and done so much shit across the globe that if you really still have that view of America, you're just not very bright in my opinion.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm a Vietnam vet. Army. I'm not saying that this is not true, but it sounds too
horrible to be believable. Has anyone corroborated any of this?

Yes, I'm aware that we now have an all-volunteer military and that the stress levels of multiple tours of duty in Iraq and/or Afghanistan make people into monsters, but this level of abuse of trainees (or anyone) is very hard for me to buy.

If it is true, then I am deeply sorry for what happened to this woman and I am ashamed that our military has become the refuge for sadists and psychopaths.

I'd really like to know if there has been any effort to verify that this is a factual account of this woman's experiences.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I can't believe someone kicked her hard enough to break her pelvis--
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 09:52 AM by TwilightGardener
the pelvis is super-strong in a healthy young person. Usually it takes a bad fall from a height, or a car wreck to do that. That must have been one hell of a kick.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. Steel toed boots would do that. nt.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Military boots are not steel toed
Nor would any it be likely that a Drill Sgt would be wearing steel-toed boots as they are not part of a regulation uniform.

Just sayin
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. A kick in the right place
the girl was already laying on the ground doing pushups.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. So, tell me again why I should give authoritarians any respect at all?
Are we going to go back to the old chestnuts "they're risking their lives", "not all of us are like that" or "I was just following orders"?

What part of this assault is saving a life or following orders?

NCOs like this need to be locked in a cell and not fed.

If there's one thing I can't stand more than fucking dirty cops, it's people who protect and apologize for dirty cops.

Start policing YOUR GODDAMNED SELVES, then we'll talk. This is high school neanderthal bullshit.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. A strange tale. A drill instructor shattered her pelvis & she didn't catch his NAME?
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 10:39 AM by DirkGently
To me, that's the story here, or should be. The rest of the strangeness wanders and meanders oddly. This person should have, or should be, raising endless hell over a vicious assault that left her with a permanent, debilitating injury.

I don't require much convincing that horrors occur in the military, but something is amiss here.

something like Fontana (she doesn't remember this name clearly)


That just doesn't make sense. She didn't know his name? She didn't find out after he kicked her half to death? This horrific attack is the lynchpin of the entire story, and it's attributed to someone she didn't notice sufficiently to get his name? How did she fill out the report to the MP's? "Someone with a name 'something like Fontana' nearly beat me to death?"

She didn't witness a rape, but was put in a place where rapes were known to occur, and she saw women taken away and brought back "crying endlessly," but got no further information? And somewhere in here she left her family, or had left her family, because they later reconciled?

Something is wrong with this account. This is a person who wants to imply and suggest and claim a lot of things, but is not willing to say a single thing concretely, and is talking around all the critical facts.



Edited extensively as I thought about this story more, and the B.S. meter kept rising.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. It was not 'shattered' - it was hairline fractures.
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 11:06 AM by RaleighNCDUer
The full pain of it didn't manifest until later. Until it did, it was nothing more then 'common' abuse. I don't know what Army training is like. In the Marines (back in the dark ages) the DI's were attached to the recruit platoon from start to finish, but even then we has other instructors who were not attached to the platoon for specialized training, and we often didn't catch their names. Neither the injury, nor the unsurety of who caused it struck me as being false.

eidited for typoo
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. There's not one verifiable fact in the entire account. Pegs my B.S. meter at 1000.

I have no problem giving credence to accounts of abuse in the military, but it doesn't make sense to me that there are such dire and effective threats in place that there is no recourse for a drill instructor shattering, breaking or "hairline fracturing" someone's pelvis. That is a life-altering injury, and it is claimed to have been backed up by an immediate X-ray. It allegedly occurred stateside, not in a war zone where there are no lawyers, no family to call. I also do not believe the military (for all its known problems) tries to force people seriously injured in basic training into combat. It would be more efficient from any cold, selfish perspective, to send her home and pray she didn't make a stink or hire a lawyer.

I absolutely do not believe someone not remembering the name of either a military drill instructor OR someone who kicked them repeatedly in the pelvis. She also claims to have made a report to the MPs. She did that, without knowing the man's name? Or forgot it soon after? Who has ever filed a criminal complaint against anyone whose name and identity were readily available, and never bothered to learn the person's name?

The rest of the story is likewise bizarre and full of "may haves" and "might have been" type statements. The special "rape" quarters, where it is implied horrible things occurred? False charges about drug sales -- stemming from what? It sounds like she didn't pursue the assault, so why? Then the sudden leap to going AWOL?

I don't pretend to know what happened here, but the nature of this account alone -- vague, disjointed, wholly unsupported by any verifiable fact -- does a disservice to the many concrete reports of military misconduct and mistreatment of women in particular. It feels and sounds like confabulation, even if it is not.



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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Nothing verifiable in the X-rays? The prescribed pain pills?
It is obvious SOMETHING happened.

Were you ever in? If so, do you know the name of the DI who conducted your platoon's hand-to-hand drills? Or that DI's junior instructors? When I was in, my platoon DI marched us to the field, turned us over to the guy, and went away to drink coffee or something, leaving us in the hands of a Gunnery Sergeant and three corporals. Never knew their names. Rifle range - same thing, though the rifle instructor and one sergeant were assisted by one of the platoon DIs. Never knew the names of the rifle instructor or his junior NCO.

There's PLENTY of people a recruit will have passing contact with, whose names they'll never know. You expect maybe she's going to leap to her feet and demand to know the name rank & serial number of the NCO who is kicking her? Or maybe, she's going to keep at her ordered exercises, eyes front, not NOT EYEBALL him? When the pain set in the next day, she then went to sick call. And the day after that, she went to the MPs - presumably she didn't trust her DIs and the chain of command.

And nobody is claiming the entire Army is like this. No more than the 8 NYPD officers charged with theft and drug dealing indicts the entire NYPD. That doesn't mean there are not a lot of people tangentially connected who are not playing CYA, as well as those directly involved.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. No names, no dates, no witnesses, no documents. Takes it out of the realm of journalism anyway.
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 12:30 PM by DirkGently
If there were an X-ray & a prescription, which the article doesn't confirm, that would indicate an injury, not an assault and a pervasive campaign of intimidation, threats & abuse.

No news editor would publish this account. The name of the assaulting drill instructor. The supposed drug dealing charges. The mother who supposedly looked into it. All vapor. Too many "may haves" and "might have beens" and vague-ing-up of all critical details. "A woman ... possibly named Rodriguez ..." The story is full of such half-statements. It's actually told in a way that ensures no one CAN check it out.

What happened with the criminal complaint filed with the MPs which "may" be on file somewhere? Which complaint was made either without reference to the person's name, or made with reference to the person's name, but somehow she got through that process without ever learning it well enough to remember? What follow up occurred? She never heard back? She never asked? She never took it further up the chain? She was imprisoned, threatened, falsely accused, and went AWOL, but never pursued the assault that started it all far enough to even learn the person's NAME?

This is a smell test situation. Fails mine.
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brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Agree...unrec because my B.S. meter...
kept wanting to jump off the scale every few sentences or so.

I have no doubt that there is some abuse of those going through Basic.
However some of the things reported here just seemed way too far-fetched.

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bluedigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
29. Farfetched story.
A one sided story of allegation and innuendo with no secondary corroboration or documentation, and no apparent attempt to contact DA for a response. People will believe what they want to, but this is a smear job, not journalism.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
53. The whole thing stinks and sounds just like every whinyass private (and some NCOs)...
I've put through UCMJ/chapter or wished I could...

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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
31. BS meter is off the charts here
if her allegations are true, I support her. I dont need criminals and thugs in my Army

I challenge her to pursue justice against these people. Normal people dont sit idly by while a serial rapist is on the loose.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
32. Nice thread
Thanks
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. Several Things In This Story Ring False to Me
Edited on Wed Oct-26-11 12:33 PM by NeedleCast
First, basic training recruits DO NOT sleep with their weapons. In fact, the M-16 rifles used in basic training are kept in an armory and checked out to soldiers on a daily basis. I called a friend who works at the Baltimore, MD armory to ask if he had ever heard of anything like this and he said no, that it would be pretty much unthinkable to have 120 M-16 (about the number needed to supply a basic training company) checked out to basic training soldiers without taking a daily inventory. "This shit ain't bubblegum," was his exact quote.

It is also hard to believe that a soldier would be assigned to the same unit/platoon after an extensive injury recovery. Considering that every base that conducts basic training is always running many basic training companies through a staggered schedule so that they're starting a new company about once every two weeks, there's no reason she wouldn't have been placed in a company that was at or near the same point in training as she had been when she got hurt. I watched that process happen on more than one occasion during my basic and AIT training.

Female assigned male battle buddy: This just doesn't happen. The battle buddy system is designed to pair you up with someone so that the two of you can make sure that you know what's going on and are squared away. Since men and women in basic training sleep on different floors or in different buildings during basic training, it would be pointless to assign a male/female battle buddy team.

"Aristine thinks the Army should allow stretching during training to avoid countless shin injuries in women and men."

In my entire five year military career we did not once, ever, start physical training without stretches and minor exercises to warm up the muscles.

If this story is true, I feel horribly for this girl, but a lot of it sounds like it is written by someone who did not actually experience basic training.

(Edit to add: While I did my basic training in 1997/1998, I was in the very same basic training unit as Aristine, albeit seven years earlier. Basic training was not fun, but with only one exception, our drill sgts were about as professional a group of people as I could imagine).
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I thought sleeping with your gun sounded antiquated. And ... "stretching?" For a broken pelvis?

These are more details that stretch credulity. Why would the military not allow stretching? Moreover, where does a complaint like that fit into charges she was dealt a debilitating injury in a physical assault?

Not trying to put too fine a point on things. But this is a very strange account.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Agreed
In my 9-ish weeks of basic it would have been inconceivable for this to happen. I mean, if a Drill Sgt. had struck a trainee it would not have gone unchecked. The idea that a drill sgt would be allowed to kick a trainee repeatedly and to a point that it broke or fractured one of the strongest bones in the body...I just don't buy it.

Near the end of training, one of the drill sgts (who was either still drunk from the previous night or seriously hung over) made a disparaging sexual remark in front of his platoon and I thought our company commander might actually kill him...that's how seriously they took that sort of thing.

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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
52. Quite honestly, the part I
find really hard to understand is why someone who so much wanted to join the military in the first place would instead get married, then have two babies, THEN enlist. I think there may be an extra digit at the beginning of her supposed IQ.

I also am astonished that anyone would put up with not being allowed to contact family members for any length of time. And if it's true she left a husband and a couple of kids behind, they never wrote to her? There are many bothersome details like that.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Basic training is brainwashing. They really fuck with your head.
I can still feel the effects of what was done to me. I enlisted in 1965.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
54. A great quote by HG Wells on the military mind.
"The professional military mind is by necessity an inferior and unimaginative mind; no man of high intellectual quality would willingly imprison his gifts in such a calling."

HG Wells
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-11 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
56. The folks that did this to this woman are sacks of shit.
They have no honor and are a disgrace to their uniforms and to the nation.
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