Consumer Reports: top 9 most reliable cars all from Japanese manufacturers

[AngryAmish]

Top US brand is Jeep at 13.

Looks like the big three continue to be a barrel of suck.

[Fumesucker]

1. Oh Yum...

Extra butter and a kosher Coke please! :popcorn:

[RockaFowler]

2. Or could be that Consumer Reports is bias

They defend Toyota to no end. They never give ANY American cars any credit. I gave up my subscription a few years back because I felt their tests were unreliable and incredibly bias . . .

[MineralMan]

4. Is Consumer Reports biased?

What's your evidence for that? I'm unwilling to just take your word on this.

[pintobean]

6. Read your sig line.

[MineralMan]

11. I don't have to. I wrote it.

That someone posts an opinion does not mean that someone else cannot ask for support of that opinion. Opinions are always subject to being questioned.

Also, my post wasn't directed to you, so you will not have the answer I'm seeking, I suppose.

[pintobean]

13. You should follow your own advise.

It seems you have 2 standards - one for you and one for everyone else.

[MineralMan]

16. This is not about me, and I give no advice in my signature line.

I make a statement. I don't mind if people question my opinion. That stimulates discussion. I almost always answer any question put to me, as I am doing in response to yours. But this thread is not about me. It is about automobile quality as assessed by Consumer Reports magazine. It's not a magazine I ever read, and I don't buy new cars in any case.

Why are you making this statement regarding my signature line? I asked the previous poster a question about his opinion. Your post has nothing whatever to do with that.

[RockaFowler]

14. OK, I'll answer

I said that I felt - opinion. That's why I gave up my subscription

[MineralMan]

19. That's fine. I never read the magazine.

I was just wondering if you had some evidence of its bias that I could look at. Apparently not. Never mind.

[Romulox]

20. Consumer Reports uses self-selected polls to generate "reliability" data. They don't test cars.

As someone who has participated in more than one of these discussions, you should be aware of these basic facts. If you don't understand why this is not "scientific" or mathematically sound, then it can't be explained to you here.

[NoGOPZone]

33. So they own their own test track, but don't test cars.

Consumers Union is a non profit organization and donations to them are deductible. I'm sure they New York state authorities would be interested in knowing about this fraud they are evidently committing by publishing purported test results without actually conducting them.

Incidentally, Consumers Union denied a Toyota request to use its test track. Fine manner of treating those whom you favor.

http://consumerist.com/2010/04/consumer-reports-sorry-toyota-you-cant-borrow-our-test-track.html

[Romulox]

36. They don't test LONG TERM reliability of cars. nt

[NoGOPZone]

37. damn, that post was moved quick. nt

[Romulox]

39. Nonsense. You don't understand what you don't understand about this issue. nt

[NoGOPZone]

41. You went from "don't test cars" to "don't test long term reliability". that's a move, and a big one

[Romulox]

47. And you lied about the "no automatic recommendation" thing. nt

[NoGOPZone]

49. Hardly, I explained it in my post to another user.

[Romulox]

53. Right. But the information you supplied was false, as my NYT link proves. nt

[NoGOPZone]

55. Right, because the times is a better source than the original press release nt.

[Romulox]

38. Also, if you don't understand why *self-selected* surveys aren't useful as statistical samples,

I can't teach you that.

[NoGOPZone]

40. Maybe you can teach me where I brought up self selected surveys nt

[Romulox]

48. Self-selected surveys do not provide valid statistical samples. It's math. Not up to you. nt

[NoGOPZone]

57. Still avoiding the challenge? Where did I defend or even bring up self selected samples? nt

[Romulox]

59. Psst: It's how Consumer Reports compiled this ranking! nt

[NoGOPZone]

60. No kidding! Now where have I defended the rankings. I corrected your ridiculous statement

about them not testing cars.

[Romulox]

63. If you look at the top of this thread, you'll see the "topic" of the discussion. nt

[NoGOPZone]

67. and if you look at my post, you see I don't bring up self selected samples

I was correcting your false statement about them not testing cars. Measuring a cars performance on a track or road is a test, isn't it? As in test drive?

[Romulox]

70. It's math. It's not up to you whether it's relevant to the "topic" of quality surveys. nt

[NoGOPZone]

72. The topic of quality surveys was not the subject of my post

Try to stay focused.

[Romulox]

74. Right. And I suppose you mean just what you say, and say just what you mean.

:idiotic:

[NoGOPZone]

58. delete, duplicate

[Union Scribe]

21. Yeah we know

Why would you read a magazine giving recommendations when you already so clearly know everything.

[MineralMan]

22. I don't read it because I don't buy new cars.

I haven't bought a car less than 6 years old for many, many years.

[olegramps]

29. Consumer Reports rated Panasonic's Plasma TV as top rated.

Yet there were literally thousands of complaints about power problems within two years of manufacture. Panasonic refused to do anything to correct the problems that were caused by the use of cheap electronics. They show have recalled the sets and fixed the problem but they refused to do so. I will never purchase another Panasonic product or rely on Consumer Reports for guidance.

[Romulox]

5. Consumer Reports **AUTOMATICALLY** recommended the Toyotas that killed all of those people. nt

[Union Scribe]

9. Yep.

I'd go as far as to call them complicit.

[ZombieHorde]

12. Is there any real evidence for that? nt

[Romulox]

18. Never ceases to amaze that a person can sit in front of a computer attached to the internet

And then demand that others use google for them. :hi:

[ZombieHorde]

25. If asking for evidence is annoying for you, you may not be intellectually honest.

It is not a guarantee, but I think it is a red flag.

[NoGOPZone]

30. Hopefully, I can explain

CR never automatically recommended cars. Somewhat simplified, cars that are recommended are those that do well in the magazine's tests, government crash tests, and in the user reliability survey. For a while, first year new or redesigned Toyotas that had done well in the first two criteria would be recommended without waiting for the reliability data, subject to a withdrawl of the recommendation if the reliability data was negative once it came in.

Now some people that are, to use your phrase, intellectually dishonest or perhaps lazy have tried to spin that into claiming that CR automatically recommended Toyotas. I'm sure some will even try to print a link to some blog claiming the same. I will refer you to a CR press release and an entry from their own blog so you may see their own words regarding the subject.

http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/105981712.html

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/car-reliability.html

[Romulox]

45. "the decision by Consumer Reports to stop automatically giving a “recommended” label to all its cars

But 2007 has been a difficult year for Toyota.

Its reputation for building high-quality vehicles has been tarnished, most recently by the decision by Consumer Reports to stop automatically giving a “recommended” label to all its cars and trucks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/business/worldbusiness/03toyota.html?pagewanted=print

[NoGOPZone]

51. I've already posted CRs own words on the subject, and don't see

where they say they automatically recommended models. Thanks though, for posting that link. In the future, I'll be sure to specify that someone will post a blog entry OR NEWS ARTICLE attempting to prove CR gave automatic recommendations.

[Romulox]

56. Right. They STOPPED giving "automatic recommendations" to Toyotas--AFTER those models sudden accel.

scandal broke out.

[NoGOPZone]

65. Your own link is dated 2007, well before the unintended acceleration scandal

so not only is automatic recommendations a mischaracterization, the practice ended well before the controversy.

[Romulox]

69. Nope. There are incidents reported back to the early 2000s. Here's one from 2007.

http://www.safetyresearch.net/2009/07/20/sudden-acceleration/

[NoGOPZone]

75. As there are for other brands. It didn't become a major issue until later. I guess this

makes CR extremeley perceptive and proactive though, withdrawing their 'automatic recommendation' years before most people were aware of the problem. For a brand they supposedly favored, too!

[MineralMan]

35. You're the one making the assertion. Add a link to support it,

and you'll solve the problem, perhaps. It's a pretty serious claim about the publication. I'm sure you must have information to back it up. Why not just post that, instead of insulting the person who asked?

[Romulox]

42. You didn't respond to the issue of self-selected surveys. Why bother further with you?

:hi:

[MineralMan]

44. I did not respond to that because I never brought that subject up,

nor does it interest me. I choose what I respond to. As I said, I do not read Consumer Reports. If I want information on automobiles, I read automotive magazines. I rarely want such information, though, since I don't buy new automobiles.

The self-selected surveys thing was irrelevant to my comments, so I did not respond to that. I have no information about it.

[Romulox]

46. LOL!!!! Surely, since YOU didn't bring it up, it must be irrelevant. Totally irrelevant!

"The self-selected surveys thing was irrelevant to my comments, so I did not respond to that. I have no information about it."

You either understand it and are ignoring it, or don't understand the significance. I'd wager it's the latter. :hi:

[MineralMan]

52. Oh, dear...I didn't respond to your claim about that, since I

have no information about their survey procedures. I don't care about Consumer Reports. I don't read the publication. This all started by someone saying that the magazine was "bias" {sic}. I asked that poster if he/she had some evidence of that bias. I wasn't defending the publication, but asking for more information.


You said something about self-selected surveys, but didn't offer any evidence of that, either. So I lost interest in the topic. It is irrelevant to me, since it's not a magazine I read. Perhaps it's relevant to you. I do not know. :shrug:

[Romulox]

54. Self-selected surveys do not provide valid statistical samples. It's math. Not up to you. nt

[MineralMan]

62. My statement about relevance had to do with my own personal

interest. It is, indeed, irrelevant to me, since I don't read the publication. When I want information about automobiles, I read magazines that specialize in them. It is, apparently, you who puts any credence in Consumer Reports and their opinions, not me. How they do their surveys is irrelevant to me, as is the publication itself. I asked if there was evidence for the claim of bias on the part of the OP. You volunteered your opinion. That does not stimulate a need in me to respond to your opinion regarding their survey process, since it is irrelevant to me. I will, however, respond to your comments about me, which have nothing whatever to do with Toyota quality. :shrug:

[Romulox]

64. "I, me, mine..." I didn't ask about you; irrelevant. nt

[MineralMan]

68. Well, then. I hope you recover your equilibrium soon.

Now, I have other things to do...

[Romulox]

71. Weak. Even for you. nt

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

3. Consumer reports uses self-selected polls, and conducts no long term tests.

:shrug:

[True Earthling]

7. Scions are built in the U.S.

http://www.carsdirect.com/car-buying/where-are-scion-cars-built#b


Scion is a line of models produced by Toyota Motor Corporation. Toyota cars were originally only sold in Japan, but since its creation in 1937, the company has grown into a huge corporation with factories in many other countries worldwide. Although there are Toyota factories all over the world, the Scion line of models was only intended for sale in North America, so it is only manufactured there. The following are brief descriptions of biggest countries of North America with respect to Toyota Scion production and availability.

United States

The original Scion models, the Scion xB, the Scion xA and the Scion tC, were only intended for sale in the United States, so they were only manufactured in the United States. All subsequent Scion models are also currently being mass produced in the United States. This is good news if you live in the US and want a Scion, because supply is higher around manufacturing plants, which drives down price, and shipping costs are also kept to a minimum. This means that residents of the United States will get the cheapest deals on new Scion models.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. To each their own. I wouldn't trade my 1999 Saturn for anything on the market today.

[True Earthling]

10. Acuras are made in Ohio

http://ohio.honda.com/CompanyInfo/products.cfm

The Acura TL, built at the Marysville Auto Plant, is the best-selling Acura product in the world - and it is exported to a number of countries.

With a turbocharged engine assembled in Anna, Ohio, and a body built in Marysville, Ohio, the Acura RDX is super fun to drive.

[Romulox]

15. "assembled" by scab workers. There's a difference, and it's the reason they don't claim MADE IN USA.

:hi:

[Fumesucker]

17. It's a Japanese company though...

Kind of peculiar how the same workers under different management produce a more reliable vehicle..

It makes you wonder what the difference might be.

Could it be the management?

Naah, impossible, we have the best management talent money can buy.

[Greybnk48]

23. Well my husband and I are still going to buy American,

and buy local. We buy a Ford, a Chevy or a Dodge. If we're in some way a couple of dopes, then so be it. We're not buying our appliances from big box stores anymore either. Only locally owned businesses.

[Shagbark Hickory]

24. I have no doubt the Japanese brands are the most reliable but I do call bullshit on the chart.

Predicted?

They predicted the 2012 Nissan Titan will be the most reliable which has been such a dismal seller and had a lot of quality issues reported? I have not heard of any changes in the works for the 2012 Titan yet they say it will be "up 5" :wtf:

There is a rumor that the 13 or 14 Titan may get a turbo diesel but if I had a penny for everytime we've been teased with those rumors...

I'm not a subscriber but I'd be very interested to know how they arrived at this and can't read the itty bitty text at the bottom too well.

[NoGOPZone]

43. The up 5 doesn't refer to the Titan. It means Nissan finished five places higher than last year.

Also, predicted reliability refers not to one model but the the company as a whole. The Titan is listed because the 2011 model did the best among Nissans in the survery. The asterisk indicates that the most reliable model rating is based on only one year of reliability data .

[Romulox]

50. They don't DO long-term reliability testing. It's all surveys and "predictions".

:shrug:

[MineralMan]

66. Tough to do long-term reliability testing on a current model.

Reviews are made before any such testing can be done on a particular model. How could they do long term reliability testing on a new car? Problems with a particular year's model run often don't appear for quite a long time. There's no way to predict that.

[Romulox]

73. The onus is on CR, which claims to rank "the most reliable cars". If they have no such data,

then there is little to pin these assertions on. When they then cloak their results in the appearance of "scientific" or "mathematical" certainly, it becomes borderline misleading, as we see with this thread itself.

[Shagbark Hickory]

80. I'm not talking about long term.

Titan the most reliable Nissan? How do they explain it?

[socialindependocrat]

27. I tried to buy American....

after 28 years of Honda and Mazda I tried an American car and I have had three problems in the first year and a half.

I kept my foreign cars for 8 to 13 years and had minor problems with each
I was pleased with each one.

I decided to support the old U.S. and BLAM!!!

1) ignition switch wouldn't let me take the key out
had to pull the fuse to get the engine to stop
dash lights stayed on
had to park in garage, leave windows down, jump start in a.m.
AND I was out of town (vacation) at the time

2) stabilizer bar ends (after 35,000 carefully driven miles)
Just went off of warrentee
cost $200 because they included a "diagnostics test" to find the problem

I say they have a diagnostics program because their mechanics are too stupid to find the problem!
I wouuld fight this is the future if they don't inform me before they start the work
Now I go to a local garage and he tells me what the problem is and the cost before the mechanic even looks at it!!!! You can tell the good guys - They have cinderblock garages with 4-5 bays and there are always a bunch of cars out front that change every day.

3) The remote locks and the dash readout for various functions went wacky.
The technician found that it was a ground screw that had loosened
They fixed it for free!!!

I wrote a letter to the manufacturer and said they put in electronic crap in a retro car that was untested and when it malfunctioned they expected the consumer to pay for it!!!

American car manufacturers have never listened to the consumer. They will not make a consumer car that uses less gas. When Pres Obama said they had to average over 30 MPG that when they started making cars with better milage - but you notice - they just make over 30MPG.

Then you see the smaller cars they have out - they want us to pay 16-19,000 for a half a car!!!

I told them - I had great records with my foreigd cars and they listen to the consumer.
I gave American a chance and they are still scamming the American people
SCREW TEHM!!!!

[Shagbark Hickory]

81. When was this just out of curiosity?

I'm not inquiring to be argumentative, I believe you. Just wondering if they're still like this post bailouts/mergers and all.

[Atman]

88. Hmm, no response.

I bet he's talking about something like a 1980-something experience. I don't think you'll find many people willing to make the case that Detroit built good cars back then. But I find it hard to believe that anyone who has driven one of the new Chevy's wouldn't be impressed. They are light years from what GM used to make. Every bit as tight and solid -- and even more so in some cases -- than any Japanese car I've driven.

.

[Shagbark Hickory]

89. I don't find it hard to believe at all.

Their fit and finish may have improved but frankly all I care about is long term durability.

I can see the fit and finish on the showroom floor before I even buy the vehicle. And problems that may arise while the car is under warranty aren't really what concerns me all that much either.

[socialindependocrat]

93. Talk about biased!!!

Why would I post something about a 1980 car.

That would be a bit out of date for a current discussion wouldn't it!!

I have a neighbor with a Ford truck that's falling apart, too.

You must work for an American manufacturer is all I can think of....

Snap out of it son - American manufacturers only want to keep the money and the gas flowing!!!

[socialindependocrat]

92. It is a 2009

It was a lease car (2009)

We bought in 2010

And now is 2011 - we've owned it a year.

[Shagbark Hickory]

95. Yep. I find it hard to believe that the Detroit brands would change their ways

and make a car that'll be trouble-free for 20 years or more. I think they make more money on parts over the life of the vehicle than they do actually making the vehicles to begin with.

In fairness I've heard the import brands are slipping but my latest model is a 2003 Toyo and it didn't need anything done until 70,000 miles and even then it didn't leave me stranded. That may sound good but my last Toyo had twice that mileage on it before it needed to go to the mechanic for the first time.

[socialindependocrat]

96. Just brakes..

They see that peole can change their own break pads and they raise the cost of pads
from $12 (1980) to $27 (2000) and to $57 (2008)

AND - if you go to get a dealer to change them you get whacked for $230

Then, the make it hard to get to certain things - drain your radiator

I believe that mechanics should be able to earn a living
BUT there is a certain amount that the home mechanic should be allowed to do.

Someone (2o yrs ago) counted up all the costs for parts and the car
would cost a third more to build yourself than off the line.

Today the cost would probably be 2X

It's a crying shame what they do to make it difficult for home repair.

So the answer is to buy a car that will allow you the simplicity to do home reapir.
I don't think there is a beast you can say that about.

Then, they add all these electronic extras and ABS and computers
just so they can charge you $19M for the car.

I want a commuter like that Indian car for $2500
I'd buy one this weekend!

But will they allow it the U.S. for competition?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Then, Fiat and Mini and the VW bug. They are all $19M now.

That's also what OWS is about.
Artificial inflation of prices for stuff we don't want!!!!

We need more Elizabeth Warrens!!!!

[LanternWaste]

28. If this report validates...

If this report validates my presumptions, it's a good report. However, if it contradicts my presumptions, it's simply a biased publication and a non-story.

[supernova]

31. Love my CR-V!

It is durable, does what I need it to do, which is sometimes haul things. Plus the inside fits me, a small adult. I can reach for things without feeling like a munchkin in my own car. It's a 2002 and I'm the second owner. It only has 60K on it and I'm hoping it will last me until about 2020 at which time I will look for an electric car, probably again, used.

[Corgigal]

32. well my cx9 mazda

is claimed to be the worst model by Mazda in this "study". Interesting, since it was motor trend car of the year. It also has a five star rating by Edmund's in reliability.

http://www.edmunds.com/mazda/cx-9/2011/reliability.html

I almost have this car paid off and for almost four years I haven't had one problem. The car had done everything we've asked her to do.

[Codeine]

34. Consumer Reports always has a huge blind spot when it comes to cars. nt

[Romulox]

61. This thread is pointless. Nobody cares about Consumer Reports' methodology (IRRELLEVANT! even!)

These rankings are compiled using self-selected surveys and Consumer Reports' "predictions". It's not statistically sound, but NOBODY cares. :shrug:

[NoGOPZone]

76. For a pointless thread, you see to be posting a lot on it

:rofl:

[miyazaki]

83. obviously he's miffed. wants to argue that jps cars are un-reliable?

ya thats a fucking laugh alright. even wants to throw in unintended acceleration for
effect.

[Union Scribe]

86. And you seem to be having a grand old time

Guess it's nice to take off the mask and just hate the shit out of some domestic industry once in awhile eh?

[NoGOPZone]

87. Yes, I am, but not only did I not characterize this thread as pointless

I've also said nothing about the domestic auto industry.

[Atman]

77. No one surveyed me.

I have both a Hyundai Santa Fe (CU rated as their "worst model") and a Hyundai Elantra (rated as their best). However, both are listed as "Recommended" by CU. Huh? Number 11, supposedly not all the reliable, but they recommend them? I do question CU's methodology.

Both of my cars are, without question, the most dependable, trouble-free cars I have ever owned, bar none. I bought the Santa Fe because of my experience with the Elantra. We were car shopping last weekend, looking to upgrade to a Vera Cruz, which, according to Road & Track magazine, beats out the Lexus R300. Hyundai's are only rated as middle-of-the road on that chart, yet they have the best warranty and some of the best styling of any car on the road.

Or that could just be my personal opinion. Either way, if you gave me a brand new Toyota today, I'd sell it tomorrow.

.

[NoGOPZone]

79. In the context of the chart, worst model means within a brand.

I don't know if the Santa Fe was a recommended model, but if it did at least average on the reliability survey it could be one if it also did well on the crash and driving tests even if it was the worst among Hyundais. Also, this is 2011 data. If it had been recommened in the past but didn't do well in this years survey, it won't be mentioned when the new recommendations are published.

[bullwinkle428]

78. For those with a preconceived bias against U.S. brands, check out

the new Chevy Cruze if you happen to be looking in the compact category. I was totally blown away by how good the car was on my first test drive. Took a second test drive about a week ago, and am seriously considering purchasing one to replace my aging 2002 Honda Accord.

[MineralMan]

82. It appears that the Cruze is their most popular model right now.

So, a lot of people seem to be sharing your opinion of it.

[Atman]

85. We got one as a rental over the summer...it was awesome.

I agree. I hadn't even considered Chevy's because of my last few experiences with them, including the Olds Bravada SUV we owned (essentially a tricked out luxury Chevy S-10). But that Chevy Cruze was simply amazing. Incredible list of features, super fit and finish, great ride...felt like what a top-of-line Toyota was a few years ago. Also, we rented an Equinox while in Tahoe and were similarly impressed. Beautiful cars, both of them. The only reason I'm considering another Hyundai is because of the loyalty rebates they offer and our positive experiences with the two we own.

[itsrobert]

84. CR has always been compromised

with their Japan bias.

[madokie]

90. Consumer reports are full of shit

the for years said the chevy pickup was better than the ford and I know a lot of people who use both ford and chevy for work trucks and the chevys are always needing way more repairs as the fords ever do. consumer reports are bias as bias can get. If they recommend something I buy the opposite and find I do better whether its a washing machine or a car. they suck

splchk

[Dawson Leery]

91. Toyota should not be on that list after their problems.

It should take a decade without any major problems for them to be on that list again.

[SidDithers]

94. Pretty happy with my new, UAW made in Kansas City, Ford Escape...nt

Sid