Law grad with 170K in law school debt fails character test to get law license due to debt

[Liberal_in_LA]

Law Grad with No Plan to Repay Debt Fails Character and Fitness Mandate, Ohio Top Court Says

Ohio State University law grad Hassan Jonathan Griffin of Columbus, Ohio, has a part-time job in the public defender’s office and no feasible plan to repay his law-school and credit-card debt.

That combination means Griffin has so far failed to satisfy the character and fitness qualification to get a law license, the Ohio Supreme Court has ruled. The opinion (PDF) upholds a recommendation by the Supreme Court’s Board of Commissioners on Character and Fitness.

Griffin had $170,000 in student-loan debt and $16,500 in credit-card debt. He earns $12 an hour at his part-time job with the PD.

“We accept the board’s findings of fact and conclude that the applicant has neglected his personal financial obligations by electing to maintain his part-time employment with the Public Defender’s Office in the hope that it will lead to a full-time position upon passage of the bar exam, rather than seeking full-time employment,” the opinion says.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_grad_with_no_plan_to_repay_debt_fails_character_and_fitness_mandate_ohi

[hlthe2b]

1. This OUGHT to result in a lawsuit which when settled...

would pay off his entire debt. I hope some fellow Ohio attorney takes his case on.

[bluestateguy]

2. I'll say it again and again

Only go to law school if,

1) You are wealthy and can pay out of pocket with no loans.

2) You have a job--a real job--lined up for after you finish law school.

3) You get into an elite top 10 law school.

OSU is a real good school, but it is not top 10.

[EFerrari]

6. Lincoln couldn't have followed that advice. n/t

[bluestateguy]

13. I would not have proffered that advice in c.1830

Back then if you wanted to be a lawyer, you spent a year or two reading the law, perhaps under the tutelage of another lawyer. Then you took the bar exam. The idea of the three year structured regime of law school with it's very expensive tuition was not how it was done.

[EFerrari]

18. But poor students are still poor. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. Guess he will have to become a banker.

[Paulie]

5. No need, editor for a Law Publisher

:)

[tammywammy]

8. Well, he was a stockbroker for 5 years before law school

He's failed the bar exam three times already.

[Lady President]

27. Which he can't do now

It's not like he can go back to being a broker now. His credit score would prevent him from obtaining employment in any financial field. It will be a miracle, especially in Ohio, for him to make more than $12/hr. at any job.

[csziggy]

12. He'll probably become a politician

After all, he failed the bar exam three times - he's perfect for a Republican candidate!

[Ilsa]

4. So he can't get a better job because he cant pay his debt because he can't get a better job.

How vicious.

[Fumesucker]

9. How American.. n/t

[RKP5637]

11. Yep, utterly American, the 21st century American Dream in full play! n/t

[JVS]

7. Is this some kind of fucking catch 22?

[Hello_Kitty]

10. He should go be a lobbyist. eom

[fairfaxvadem]

14. I'm stunned...

Is this just law school debt or 7 years worth of higher ed? There's really something fishy about this story and this guy -seems he's had that PD job for a while.

[Liberal_in_LA]

16. Probably just law school debt. 150K and up is the new norm.

three years at 30K to 50K per year. and after all that, many law grads can no longer find full time high paid jobs.

[fairfaxvadem]

21. I understand the debt...

I left law school with $75,000 loan debt just in 2007. I thought that was high. But then, I didn't take out the extra loans - fortunate enough to have a well-paid full-time job and own my home (not outright, however). I would be frightened to owe more - it was all I could do to take this much on without feeling stretched.

And private school especially, but dang, that's still a lot for the average state school, isn't it?

The whole tuition thing is such a racket - who can get out from under without a serious amount of luck these days?

[Liberal_in_LA]

24. some are using the loans to cover full living expenses.

[Lady President]

26. A given

I went to law school awhile ago ('95-'98) so the rule may have changed, but at that time full-time law students were prohibited from working their first year. If you were caught working, you would be kicked out of school. There is no choice but to use loans for living expenses for at least a year. Personally, I didn't know of anyone who worked more than a handful of hours during the school year the next two years. We all tried to save a little during the summer, but law students makes next to nothing.

[tammywammy]

19. $20k was from his undergraduate degree

He worked for 5 years as a stockbroker and then went to law school. He incurred $120k from law school, and had around $17k in credit card debt. He's worked at the PD office since "after his first year of law school." He was hoping to become full time, but they aren't hiring full time attorneys now or anytime in the near future. He's failed the bar exam 3 times already. The last time he was there, they questioned him about his finances and he said he was contemplating filing for bankruptcy, but he never followed through with it. Even on $12/hr he's living with his girlfriend and their child, in the woman's home and has minimal expenses. He should have used this time to renegotiate his student loan payments and been at least looking for full time work. He did none of that, that's why it was denied.

[NashVegas]

20. Underlying This

It's pretty apparent this is someone who had a strategic plan for a career, but not the brains to pull it off.

[Odin2005]

15. The PTB want us to be a PERMANENT UNDERCLASS.

[elleng]

17. awful ridiculous. Read comments, ABA journal.

[badtoworse]

22. This is a tough one

I sympathize for the guy, but he doesn't strike me as all that bright. The job market for attorneys has sucked for a number of ears years and running up debt like that with poor prospects of being able to pay it back is irresponsible at best. In any case, what constitutes a reasonable plan to pay it back? Any plan would be contingent on making more than $12 an hour and that is likely contingent on passing the bar. I don't think we've heard the whole story.

The sad part of this is that apparently, both the schools and the lenders aren't advising students about how much debt is prudent. Unfortunately, this guy is going to be truly screwed for a long time since this debt usually cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

[Liberal_in_LA]

23. recent big story on law school

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=business

Is Law School a Losing Game?

[TBF]

25. Depends -

top 10 law school you can pay it back (i know)
some states are better than others
some can be discharged (private loans and credit cards)

Totally sucks that the bar did this to him.

[flvegan]

28. That's really a shame.

A real damn shame.

[Berry Cool]

29. This is a sure way to make sure nobody goes into PD or Legal Aid these days.

Law school costs way too much and is way oversold as a guarantee that you can make back the investment quickly by easily getting a job at a big law firm. Not so these days; they're laying off lawyers, not hiring.

I'm not sure what made this guy think he was going to make oodles of money with the PD, but even if his plan was to go to a big law firm, it wasn't a good one.

The only reason to become a lawyer these days is if you really, really want to be a lawyer, more than you want to eat. And if so, it helps if you don't have to go deeply into debt for law school.

[Hannah Bell]

31. not "nobody". just non upper-class people.

[Hannah Bell]

30. what a freaking catch-22.

[Lady President]

32. Some thoughts

This story is hitting close to home...

First, the ABA needs to put in place stricter rules prior to admitting students. The schools collect the money knowing that not all students will pass the character fitness requirements. I was raked over the coals when I did my character interview with ABA because I had been caught underage drinking when I was in undergrad. The big problem was that while I admitted to it my application to take the Bar, my undergrad thought that were doing a nice thing by not including it in my official record. I was grilled because maybe there were other nefarious things in my past that the school and I had hidden. (There weren't.) A friend had to appeal the decision of the ABA not to let him sit because he had been in an in-patient rehab center for a year. The law school shouldn't have let him attend and incur a tremendous amount of debt, if they knew the Bar would have that much trouble with his past. The year in rehab was mentioned in his admission to school.

Second, I mentioned above that the ABA wouldn't allow first-year full-time students work. You could be kicked out for having any type of employment. We all had to use loans and credit for living expenses. (This may have changed since the late '90s when I attended.)

Third, unless re-financing loans has changed in the last few years, that doesn't help when you have $100K+. Pushing it to 30-years for repayment still puts payments higher than many new lawyer's salary.

While I'm managing to pay my loans, it's still not easy. I think we've reached a place were students shouldn't be admitted unless they can go to school with minimal loans. I know this would mean only the rich could be doctors and lawyers, but it's better to crush a dream than allow a young person's life to derail over debt.

[jody]

33. "Applicant may reapply to take the February 2011 bar examination."

(No. 2010-1715 — Submitted January 4, 2011 — Decided January 11, 2011.)
https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/0/2011/2011-ohio-20.pdf