Goddamn Bank of America!

[Bonobo]

I live in Japan now and will not be moving back to the US.

Before I left, I made 100% certain that I closed BOA accounts and settled all debts and closed all accounts and credit cards.

Now, I have gotten a bill from BOA claiming I owe $300. The bill has no explanation for this, no charges. It just appears that they have charged my 3 times with $100 payments due.

This is some kind of fraud but I am not sure what to do.

They have no online help/support except to JOIN their online billing system (which I do NOT want to do).

They have no international call center and I can't use their 800 number.

I do NOT owe them money.

What should I do?

A. Forget about it and throw the bill in the trash.

B. Waste lots of time staying up late at night and making frustrating international calls to local numbers that will almost certainly yield poor results.

[tammywammy]

1. The best thing I can think of

Is sending them a certified type of letter (with receipt) stating you do not owe them any money.

[pipi_k]

5. Just wanted to add...

since I had been involved in something similar a few years ago...

Send them a certified letter like you said, but also adding that they must provide PROOF of their claim that the OP owes them the money.

There are all kinds of good form-type letters out there...they can be found by searching for "proof of debt" or "debt validation".


In my own case, I ended up getting the Attorneys General of two states involved, and the Zombie Debt Collectors backed off.

[Bonobo]

10. Sounds like a lot of work...

My guess is that BOA figures it is good business.

They do this to 100,000 people and collect from just a small percentage. That's a pretty good profit.

If people like you make a stink, they back off and the whole thing costs them nothing.

Motherfuckers.

[defendandprotect]

13. Agree --

and asking for a description of the charges --

[Selatius]

2. You may want to consult an attorney. You may be in for an ugly fight. nt

[Systematic Chaos]

3. If you could be poor and not give two shits about your credit, then you'd be golden.

As it is, since you've moved to Japan, I suspect that you are interested in maintaining credit integrity and building a sound financial future.

Sounds like you either pay it, or pay in every other way imaginable whether you try and fight it or ignore it.

I'd be royally fucking pissed, too. :(

[WillyT]

4. Tell Them To Kiss Your Ass, You Live In Japan !!!

:shrug:

[Capn Sunshine]

24. Except credit scoring agencies know no borders

Even in Japan.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. Actually, they do know borders

Japanese credit card companies don't give a crap what my American credit rating is-- they just want to know what my income in Japan is. And American credit card companies don't give a crap what my Japanese credit rating is.

[DaveinJapan]

6. Sorry to hear that, brutha.

I don't have any advice beyond making phone calls and I know how expensive that can be! One small bit of advice is that in my house we have computer/land lines set up with "Yahoo BB" in Japan (referred to as "BB Phone"), and calls to the U.S.A. cost around ¥3 per minute (great for having stress free, long chats with the fam for only a buck or two AND yes in situations like this I've spent my share of time on the phone, always mentioning that I'm calling from Japan and it's freaking expensive (even though it ain't lol), and they'd better damn well get the supervisor on this and FIX it quick).

So, there's that. You might want to look into it. Aside from that advice, I can only say I'm sorry to hear that and I've been there and done it and it sucks!

[Bonobo]

9. This is the kind of thing that has driven me from America.

I will become a naturalized Japanese this year.

Fuck them. Boy do I hate this aspect of America.

It burns me up so much, Art.

Inconceivable behavior from the standpoint of how things are done in Japan...

[JCMach1]

40. SKYPE... I pay $9 for unlimited calls into the USA

fromt the Middle-East

[Art_from_Ark]

7. You should be able to call a 1-800 number from Japan

The only difference is, it's not toll-free-- you have to pay for it like a regular international call. Oh, wait-- you're on a small island, right? Can you make direct-dialed international calls from there? If you can, I would suggest calling the 1-800 number with one of the cheap international telephone companies, like 0033. If you call at night or on Saturday Japan time, you can get a sizable discount.

[Bonobo]

8. I don't think you can call 1-800 from Japan, no.

Also, the insidious thing is that how will I be certain that the matter is cleared up even if I eventually get them to say it is cleared.

They have intentionally created a system where they do not really close accounts apparently and make it hard to get past their rude, ignorant customer 'support'.

[Art_from_Ark]

12. I've called 1-800 numbers from Japan

If you have direct-dial, you'll get a message saying that the number isn't toll-free, and if you don't want to pay for the call then hang up now. If you don't hang up, the call should be able to go through. I've called various US financial institutions that way and have been able to get through.

[miyazaki]

17. Found this number on their online banking site,

1.315.724.4022 International Collect. I just tried it from my
place in Japan. Seems to work.

[Bonobo]

18. Miyazaki - THANKS! I looked and looked but couldn't find it!

Much appreciated.

[bengalherder]

37. Lawyer up.

Hate to say it, but that is the only thing that has stopped idiots likt this from pursuing us post-bankruptcy when everything was either paid off or written off 'officially'.

PS Keep all paperwork...Good Luck!

[DaveinJapan]

11. Yes, I've called 800 numbers from Japan many times...

unless Bonobo is somewhere really remote as you suggested (where are ya Bonobo? :p).

You get a recorded message stating that the call is not toll free and to hang up if you don't wish to be charged, then it goes right through. On my Yahoo plan, I never noticed any particular difference between that and regular calls to the family (nothing expensive stuck out, anyway).

Note that the Yahoo thing is NOT cheap to countries other than the U.S.A. and not particularly cheap in Japan either aside from a "friends and family" plan with only a handful of contacts you can select, so YMMV and you should look into all the options (just don't want my advice to sound as though it's the only, or even best, option for you if you do decide to figure out how to call the U.S. cheaply).

[DaveinJapan]

14. Oh, and by the way ALL the 800 numbers I've called have been to deal with some bullshit from some

fucking bank.

Seriously.

[Art_from_Ark]

21. You too, huh?

[Bonobo]

15. Thanks, I will try tonight.

I wonder how long it will take to deal with this and how much it will cost.

I am on a small island off 姫路 called 家島.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. What state is your bank located in? What are its customer service hours?

If you use 0033, you can get a decent discount after 8:00 p.m. Japan time

http://www.fnet-ltd.com/telpocket/0033.htm

[Bonobo]

20. Mr. Miyazaki above found me an international number it looks like.

I'm sure it is not toll-free, but I will bite the bullet. The account is Massachusetts but it's not like I will be calling Massachusetts.

[Phentex]

53. Any update?

Did you call?

[snot]

16. There's always snail mail.

[bluedigger]

22. I would dispute it by mail - in Japanese.

Let them spend some time (and money) on it.

[Bonobo]

23. I LOOOOVE that idea.

I like the way you think!

[Chan790]

25. As a banker for a competitor...

I can explain this all and save you the phone calls.

In summary though, it comes down to this. Pay them or they'll charge-off the debt and fuck your credit. Do not under any circumstance tell them you're not paying them as they'll likely file felony fraud charges in response, meaning a bond against your US Passport which will seriously (and potentially permanently) fuck your Japanese naturalization. If you fight this, be prepared to have to return to the US to go to court and probably lose because they're going to show up with "proof" you owe them the money (and on paper it's not hard to prove.)

Sorry, I do dislike being a bearer of bad news. It's a shakedown but they've got you screwed by law. If you want the long explanation, let me know...it's not any prettier. This is why BofA is evil and in a class of its' own. Nobody should ever bank with BofA. Most banks would not be giving you this fight. We write-off these daily as cost of doing business and "goodwill" for bank errors.

(Ironically someone will come along and say "Credit Union". You'd be in the same boat. Most handle international charge-offs the exact same way because unlike the large monolithic corporate bank I work for, they can't absorb the cost of writing-off a few $100K/year in bad charge-offs.)

[Hannah Bell]

26. why would you tell him that there's nothing to be done, he has to pay what's likely a fraudulent

charge?

i really don't understand that.

[Chan790]

27. Because life is not fair.

BoA has a habit of being assholes and frequently finds ways to continuate charges against settled accounts. (Translation: the charges are probably "legitimate" on paper and legally-defensible, just dick.)

Even if the charges were not legitimate for BoA, it's rather easy to make fraudulent charges look legit and if he wants to make that allegation against them the onus is on him to prove it, likely in a US court at an expense far greater than $300...and he's likely going to lose anyways. The law is a gerry-rigged game not in his favor.

Seriously, it's worth the money just to keep them from screwing up his Japanese citizenship, his visa and his credit. If he were here where I could deal with this easily (in a branch by bullying some low-level FSR or branch manager who just wants me to leave and stop making a scene in the lobby that might prevent him/her from selling a car-loan to the old woman in reception or opening a business money-market for the guy with the suitcase of cash.) and the stakes were lower, I'd be advising him otherwise.

(I think if he called to dispute it, they might settle for less...but not nothing.)

[Kaleko]

28. Incredible. And here I thought I'd heard it all.

Wow.

Thank you for making this information public.

[Hannah Bell]

29. Yes, the information that BoA regularly makes false charges against closed customer accounts

& will continue to lie & add to the charges to make customers pay.

Interesting.

The poster alleges that BoA is a blatantly criminal organization and there is nothing to be done about it but pay them.

[lonestarnot]

32. Subpoena!

Bloodsucker.

[Kaleko]

33. Only if you're in the situation that Bonobo finds himself in

does he/she suggest to pay up. Considering the fact that BofA presently owns large segments of the US government, this strikes me as sound advice. Cut your losses and work for the day this multinational crime syndicate is brought down.

[DaveinJapan]

31. "Pay them or they'll charge-off the debt and fuck your credit"

I don't know the OP's situation or desires, but if he's moved to Japan permanently and has no intention of returning to the U.S., why would that matter?

It'll fall off the report after 7 years anyway (assuming no contact), and in the meantime getting credit in Japan has nothing to do with the U.S. credit agencies afaik.

I do agree wholeheartedly that you shouldn't say something like "I'm not paying this!" or anything along those lines. If you want to contact them in good faith to try and resolve the issue, I think that's fine. Otherwise, say nothing at all. If they try and initiate further contact, instruct them that you will only accept written correspondence (for your circular file, of course :p).

[bluesbassman]

41. In all likelihood it will never fall off the credit report.

I look at credit reports on a daily basis, and I've seen many collection agency owned debts that originated past seven years.

First it will be charged off by BofA. That derogatory will fall of after seven years from the last report date. However, the charge off is still a legitimate (in the eyes of the law and credit bureaus) debt that will be purchased for pennies on the dollar by some collection agency (most likely offshore - India being the new hotspot for these).

The collection agency will update the report with interest and service charges periodically to maintain it's status. The idea being that at some point in time the subject will want to apply for some type of credit where the new lender will make the borrower pay off the collection.

I'm not familiar with what ramifications this could have with passports and visas, but I do know the credit aspect of it will not just go away.

[Art_from_Ark]

45. Japanese credit card companies look at your Japanese income

If you're a permanent resident, they basically just want to know your income and your bank account information (since most payments are deducted directly from the cardholder's designated bank account). If you're an adult permanent resident and gainfully employed in Japan, it's fairly easy to get a card.

[KT2000]

36. why can't he file a complaint

with the agency that oversees federal banks?
Can't remember the name of the agency but when my bank would not correct a mistake they said was not a mistake, the agency sent them a letter requesting info and it was fixed immediately.

[sabrina 1]

48. Not true. I closed an account with a bank in NY and

about four months later received a bill for two withdrawals totaling approx. $175. I knew I had not made those withdrawals and at first thought someone else had done so. I called the bank and was told that the two withdrawals were for monthly charges AFTER the account was empty. The rest was interest. I wrote back and told them I had not authorized those withdrawals of monthly charges so if they wanted to sue me, to go ahead. That was over a year ago and I have not heard from them since, nor has it affected my credit rating, not that I care.

I would never pay a bill I did not owe, especially to a bank. That is only encouraging this kind of fraud. But I would definitely put all communication with them in writing.

[lonestarnot]

30. Fuck that and your ilk! Are you a chaser?

[jillan]

34. Call their 1-800 number & find out wtf is going on.

[trackfan]

35. A.

No question about it.

[Catherina]

38. Fuck em.

You live in Japan. Do you plan on coming back to the states anytime soon AND playing that that stupid credit rating game?

Seriously, fuck em. If you can.

[HEyHEY]

39. Find out what it's about, use skype and call them or something.

[CreekDog]

42. I sympathize and recommend contacting Consumerist --but can I ask a question?

you know how BofA operated before this, right?

why on earth keep doing business with them knowing that? didn't you expect that one day they'd figure out how to get some money out of you the way they got the gov't to help pay them to buy Countrywide?

i realize moving banks is not always trivial and credit unions don't solve all problems --but why do people do business with these jokers?

i don't get it.

i bailed on BofA years ago when they would no longer allow me to use overdraft protection with my savings account but only with a credit card (ostensibly so they could charge both an overdraft fee AND a cash advance fee).

not only did i cancel their credit card, i closed all my accounts with them. it wasn't that hard.

[DaveinJapan]

43. I can't speak for Bonobo but the general answer I've heard when asking that very question is

convenience.

[CreekDog]

44. i have a better word: inertia

:shrug:

[DaveinJapan]

46. Yeah, probably. nt

[Bonobo]

49. No, I cancelled and left them! That's why I am so pissed! nt

[MorningGlow]

52. Did you get a letter from them when you closed the account?

Sometimes you have to request it, sometimes the bank sends it automatically (I had an individual loan with another bank and they sent it automatically)--basically it says "Congratulations! You have made your final payment..." yadda yadda yadda. If you have that, just send them a copy and tell them to kiss your ass (okay not literally). If not, then yeah, you're going to have to spend some time with them convincing them that the account was closed long ago.

[upi402]

50. Vonage and Call Asia plan for one month is $10 unlimited calls

For $10 you can call all you want to certain countries in Asia. This would help you work it out. But, you'd have to have cable internet and Vonage service too.

Yes, F BoA.

[mdmc]

51. ..

[Edweird]

54. GEICO did something similar (to me) when I was buying a house.

It was either pay them $250 or have a black mark on my credit at the worst possible time. I paid them, but will never do business with them again, and I tell everyone I can what criminal scumbags they are. In GEICO'S case, they used a law (enacted in a state of emergency due to a hurricane) to extend a policy that I ad indicated I wished to cancel against my will. They had me and there was nothing I could do about it.

I probably hate BOA much more than you - the house I bought was financed by them. When the economy went south and my construction business collapsed I asked them to work with me. Their response was essentially "fuck you, pay me". I wasn't the mythical '8$/hr burger flipper in a $1,000,000 mcmansion'. My wife and I bought this house from her parents at half the current (at the time) market value.

So, yeah. I pretty much hate everything about BOA and would like nothing more than to see every building they own razed to the ground and their corporate officer's heads on pikes for all to see.