Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Then They Fight You

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:52 AM
Original message
Then They Fight You
Edited on Fri Oct-28-11 09:20 AM by WilliamPitt


#OccupyOakland protesters after their camp was destroyed by Oakland police along with ten neighboring police departments. Several hundred protesters regrouped at the intersection of 14th and Broadway where police tried dispersing the crowd with tear gas, flash bang rounds, rubber bullets and bean bag shots. (Photo: ekai)

Then They Fight You
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed

Friday 28 October 2011

At first glance, it looked like something out of Pink Floyd's film 'The Wall': menacing images of creatures in gas masks swarming toward the camera under a dark and forbidding sky. This was no dystopian fantasy, however; these were members of the Oakland police department charging into a group of protesters behind a wall of tear gas, flash-bang bombs, rubber bullets and bean-bag projectiles. The police bull-rushed these unarmed protesters with the intention to do violence, and violence is exactly what they did.

As of this writing, one woman is known to have been seriously injured when a flash-bang grenade went off right by her head. She was seen being carried away unconscious from the scene of the police riot by other protesters. Anther known injured protester has a name, and a face, and a record of service to his country. Scott Olsen, a Marine veteran of two Iraq tours, was participating in the Occupy Oakland protest when he was shot in the head by a ‘less-than-lethal’ police projectile, suffered a fractured skull, and was taken to the hospital in critical condition. His condition has since been upgraded to fair.

Welcome home, Marine. Thank you for your service to your country, but since you dared to exercise your First Amendment right to peaceable assembly, here's a cracked head for your trouble. And you thought Iraq was dangerous.

According to Oakland officials, the justification for this eight-hour-long explosion of force was that the area being occupied by protesters had become unsanitary, and that people were being raped within the camp zone. This was news to those who had been peacefully occupying the space in front of Oakland's city hall. It sounded suspiciously familiar to some last-decade claims about weapons of mass destruction being justification for a different burst of violence, and smells just as bad. The extreme nature of this police action might have had more to do with the fact that the protester's camp was unofficially named Oscar Grant Plaza, after the unarmed citizen who was murdered in 2009 by Oakland transit police, an incident that was caught on camera and broadcast to the world. Maybe the Oakland police did not like the reminder, and so swung their truncheons with an excess of vigor.

This is not the first example of excessive violence being directed at protesters in the 'Occupy Wall Street' movement. A number of incidents directed at unarmed, non-resisting protesters in New York City have been documented in detail, and in one case, an official inquiry into one NYPD officer's use of pepper spray is ongoing. The scene that played out in Oakland could very well have taken place several days ago in New York, had Mayor Bloomberg not made the wise, last-minute decision to back down from his demand that Liberty Park be cleared of protesters so it could be "cleaned." A number of protesters were injured by police in San Francisco and Denver, as well.

What happened in Oakland in the hours between Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, however, is a definite escalation of tensions between protesters and authorities, and seems to indicate those authorities are edging closer and closer towards unleashing the dogs of war on people who offer no violence and pose no threat to anyone other than the financial power-brokers who have so thoroughly ravaged this country's future.

It goes without saying that not every person participating in these national actions are docile lambs; every movement, no matter its political denomination, is going to have its share of idiots and adrenaline-junkies. Within the 'Occupy Wall Street' movement, however, these types of people make up so small a fraction of the main as to be negligible...but they do offer authorities a nice excuse to bulldoze the whole movement, and it makes you wonder how many of these so-called agitators are running around causing trouble with a badge in their back pocket. Beyond agitators, there is the simple fact that not everyone is going to react like Gandhi when they get gassed, pepper-sprayed, flash-bombed, clubbed and shot with projectiles for peacefully assembling to point out a grievous wrong.

'Occupy Wall Street' is about saying "No."

"No" to institutionalized greed of such vast width and breadth that it plunders our country even as it smiles around a mouthful of filet mignon.

"No" to the ocean of corporate cash that drowns our democracy.

"No" to rewarding the failure of frauds who proudly carry the banner of capitalism even as they enjoy the galloping socialism of the government bailout.

"No" to those who refuse to hire new employees because they want to screw over the economy and remove a president they don't like. But it is also about so much else.

The ‘Occupy’ movement is as diverse and multifaceted as the cities and towns where it has been happening. More often than not, local issues are at the forefront of the protester’s concerns; Wall Street is local for New York City, but in Oakland, the protest has been geared more toward halting austerity measures and the closures of schools and libraries…and, yes, police violence. Yet even as every ‘Occupy’ community has its own set of priorities, it is all part of a single continuum, as the issues being protested all stem from the same core concerns that crashed the economy, and created the movement, in the first place.

'Occupy Wall Street' is not about getting into a public crunch with cops over whether or not tents should be allowed in a public park. Rather than react with violence to people who are sacrificing themselves to point out what has gone so terribly wrong with the America we all love, these authorities should take a step back and encompass the awesome fact that such a movement has become so very necessary in the first place.

They should remember that violence is the last refuge of the desperate, that violence directed towards these protests will only make them stronger, and will put a big, bloody underscore beneath their efforts. Every punch thrown by a police officer, every protester clubbed or gassed or bombed or shot down with a riot-control projectile, only proves the point of that protester, and invigorates the entire movement.

They should remember that this is the year 2011, and every single person gathered at these protests has a phone with a camera that will make any unnecessary or egregious act of official violence an instant media sensation. These authorities are not working in the dark, not by a long chalk. One protester with a steady hand will make an over-the-top cop famous in all the wrong ways in exactly as much time it takes to read this sentence. Enough footage like that, and matters will escalate quickly indeed. The whole world is, in fact, watching.

Every police officer dealing with these 'Occupy' protests is not a frothing mad dog, any more than every 'Occupy' protester is a brick-throwing terrorist. Police in Albany recently refused an order to clear out a group of 'Occupy' protesters, a decision that was roundly praised. But if the Battle of Oakland shows us anything, it is how quickly this can get out of hand. The protesters are not going anywhere, and if they are met with violence on the order of what took place Tuesday night, there is no telling where we will find ourselves in the end.

http://www.truth-out.org/then-they-fight-you/1319744739
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is the truth then that the goal is to be the victim of overly aggressive tactics?
Without that response there is no success?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. We will all know by May 12.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
12AngryBorneoWildmen Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
81. What happens May 12?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Oakland didn't ask to be "victims"- they asked to be heard. "overly aggressive tactics" were the
choice of OPD.

:eyes: - "pfft... open your mind"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. The only success will be when the capitalism is GONE as far as I'm concerned. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barbiegeek Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Or single payer health care
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. That's a big part of it and I'd take that as a first step towards a socialized economy.
Other places to nationalize - energy companies and banks. But, yes, health care is critical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. "places to nationalize - energy companies and banks" 100%. i'm all for free enterprise, but there
Edited on Fri Oct-28-11 08:13 PM by dionysus
are some areas which should not be profit driven; energy, banking, and health care.

maybe if you want gas to be a profit item, make it govt profit to pay for health care and infastructure with
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
63. We need ... End to Wars, End of Capitalism, MEDICARE4ALL -- three things that
would begin to help put America back on her feet --

and, needless to say, we need to TARGET and oust all those in government

attacking the New Deal/FDR safety nets -- !!

And that includes Obama -- we need a challenger for 2012 --

someone not pre-bribed and pre-owned by corporate money -- !!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
50. I'd settle for Single Payer plus mandatory public funding of political campaigns (and a ban on all
private source funds). Oh, and a return of the Fairness Doctrine.

Really. It's pretty basic, and not much to ask in the grand scheme of things. Simple justice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #50
64. Largely agree -- but I think we need FREE TV and public appearances for candidates ...
not free $$ for them to spend as they wish.

We need to get the corporate-press out of our elections and currently they

get 80% -- 80% -- of the campaign funds for ads!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
69. How about we simply remove
money from elections and the legislative process.

Capitalism has given us a wonderful nation for many years. The abuses and excesses just need to be reined in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #69
80. "Capitalism has given us a wonderful nation for many years" -
That is the myth we are taught in schools here. Has it really been that wonderful? We had a good 20-30 years after WWII when Eisenhower raised taxes substantially. Other than that period, has it really been so great? Has it been great for women, who earn about 60 cents to every man's dollar? Has it been wonderful for minorities? Here is a great blog about how there are more black men in prison now than were enslaved in 1850: http://www.theroot.com/buzz/more-black-men-prison-enslaved-1850. Has it been great for 90% of the students who have little chance of graduating from college without massive debt? Has it been great for the homeless? Has it been great for those going bankrupt due to their medical expenses? Has it been wonderful for the 90% who have household incomes of no more than 40K while the 1% control over 40% of the wealth in this country?

You're going to have to define "wonderful" for me because I'm just not seeing it, other than for the very top 1-5% or so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Pretty much. Gandhi knew that and so did the people who marched with him
Overreaction by the plutocracy's goons disgusts the fence sitters. Pictures of blood on the front page of the newspaper ruins their breakfast. The will to support the established order evaporates as the established order is exposed for what it is: cruel, myopic, thuggish, and opposed to everybody but the 1%, whether they're plutocrats or plutocratic colonialists.

This part is very, very important for any movement. The kids in 1968 started to fight back and lost sympathy. So far, the Occupy people have acted correctly, although I'd suggest the guys with the best arms be equipped with leather gloves so they can toss those tear gas canisters out of the area, preferably downwind and not at the cops.

Without the front line getting roughed up by cops who should know better but whose skulls are too thick to let anything but command structure and orders penetrate, there is no movement and we continue to be robbed with impunity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Many cops don't think, they just react, and others react and have a great time
bashing innocent unarmed people. It happens the world over, US is no different. Unless restrains are in place, some cops/enforcers of "the system" will stoop to the lowest level.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. The difference is that Gandhi knew that he was up against moral people. We're not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. No, he didn't.
The real PTB are totally amoral, they have to be.

It's the rank and file they command who have the morality and who will turn on them eventually.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. moral people? Like this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dyer

the British were as bad as any other colonial rulers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Congratulations on getting your right-wing talking point out there first.
I see on other sites that is the newest one to be used against OWS.

Good for you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. In fact, this one started a whole thread about it

It's a way to minimize violence in that sort of person's mind. Make BLOODYING people and DOING VIOLENCE against them into just some strategy, some mental exercise (in this case, I would say "mental masturbation" since "it" does not engage much once it squeezes its little mental turd out there.)

Pay no attention to the coward behind the little poop of a post, no matter how hard he's strained to get it out, I guess is what I'm saying.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Read up on civil disobedience...
Edited on Fri Oct-28-11 11:22 AM by Avalux
certainly not victims. We win because even in the face of aggressive tactics, we continue peacefully, persistently; and will not be broken.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. you should be banned from this site
it is obvious you are a troll
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. +1 000 000 000 for your courage!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. put him on ignore.
Its refreshing to not have to read freeper provocateur crap on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
49. Hahaha. Oh. YOU again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. Thank him for kicking my thread.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
62. Great question -- and think we all have to keep expressing our feelings against this -- !!!
And to as many public officials as possible --

Support for OWS movements --

and Standing against this police brutality -- which of course happens under

direction and protection of government. That has to be stopped!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
74. If THIS doesn't reveal you to be the disruptor that you are to the mods, then nothing will.
Anyone who has this line of thinking in regards to what's happening with OWS should not be here.

How dare you.

Alerted and ignored. Enough is enough...



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. Recommended.
I recommended, and began responding to this, before finishing reading it.

Because .... last night, while on "FaceBook," I saw a post by a fellow I had gone to college with (many decades ago), mocking OWS. In our day, he was "left-wing," and had an open mind. He also had some issues with substance abuse; he used to trip daily. Anyhow, he "found God" after college, and became a pastor of a tiny fringe church near Oneonta, NY. And he is now right-wing to an ugly extent.

Definitely not the type of person today that I would even talk with, were it not for that previous connection. We sometimes debate issues such as his belief that Gandhi will burn in an everlasting hell, because he wasn't a christian. It upsets him that I hold that Gandhi was a much better christian than he. Still, years back, when I had life-threatening injuries/surgery, he was there for me, and I knew that he really cared.

Anyhow, our debate soon included a top cone-head of his church (from California), and another person who attended college with us way back when. She is a wonderful liberal Democrat. I kept quoting from King's letter from that Birmingham city jail. The opposition freaked. Eventually, my old friend "zapped" the discussion thread.

I know that by Sunday, I'll "hear" from him on the computer. I've been thinking of how I'll respond. After reading the first few paragraphs of this essay, I have my answer.

Thank you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. More from Will's new sig to share.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks!
Much appreciated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Unrecced when I meant to rec...
Damn this iPad and my chubby,stubby fingers!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. No worries - just nullified it for ya. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Got your back..
recced it up for ya!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. You use the words "official inquiry" in the fifth paragraph..
I think "official coverup" would be far more accurate, "official inquiry" is world class Orwellian these days.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
66. Rep. Barbara Lee mentioned an investigation -- think should be Federal????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R (typed with tears spilling from my eyes).
Please read this powerful Op-Ed and then help support truthout.org ( https://members.truth-out.org/donate ). The MSM, by contrast, doesn't come close to accurate reporting or analysis in my experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. K& highly rec.
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
17. k&r one hundred times. Thank you sir. eom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. A General Strike has been called for November 2, 2011
We must stand in solidarity with our brothers and sisters in Oakland. The oppressors must learn that if they strike one of us down, one hundred will replace him or her. We will not allow this sacrifice to go unheeded!

Shame on the Oakland Police and shame on Mayor Quon, who supposedly protested in the 1960s. How quickly you forget, eh, Mayor?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. The full quote is:
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi

Funny, it's gone just like that, hasn't it? A month of ignoring, then dismissive comments, now the violence and then, we win.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
20. Nice to have you back, Will. Thought we'd lost you there for a while. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I'm around.
Busy, but around.

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
22. Our own city's history shows what can happen when soldiers/police go to far
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Having read that, should we be calling militarized local police "standing armies".
Isn't that what it amounts to, standing armies in our cities?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
23. kicking n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R + Nonlethal Weapons A Global Issue (copyright) by Cheryl Welsh UN recognized NL expert
(Mind Justice)
http://www.mindjustice.org/8.htm

RECALL SCOTT WALKER!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
25. Then you win.
Don't fuck with the Marines.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. kicking again. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
31. I often wonder exactly WHO these police are protecting. If they never showed up
There would have never been violence in the first place. This would have been a completely peaceful protest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Seen any of this? More questions raised than answered, certainly.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/10/financial-giants-put-new-york-city-cops-on-their-payroll/

October 10, 2011

Financial Giants Put New York City Cops On Their Payroll

by PAM MARTENS


Videos are springing up across the internet showing uniformed members of the New York Police Department in white shirts (as opposed to the typical NYPD blue uniforms) pepper spraying and brutalizing peaceful, nonthreatening protestors attempting to take part in the Occupy Wall Street marches. Corporate media are reporting that these white shirts are police supervisors as opposed to rank and file. Recently discovered documents suggest something else may be at work.

If you’re a Wall Street behemoth, there are endless opportunities to privatize profits and socialize losses beyond collecting trillions of dollars in bailouts from taxpayers. One of the ingenious methods that has remained below the public’s radar was started by the Rudy Giuliani administration in New York City in 1998. It’s called the Paid Detail Unit and it allows the New York Stock Exchange and Wall Street corporations, including those repeatedly charged with crimes, to order up a flank of New York’s finest with the ease of dialing the deli for a pastrami on rye.

The corporations pay an average of $37 an hour (no medical, no pension benefit, no overtime pay) for a member of the NYPD, with gun, handcuffs and the ability to arrest. The officer is indemnified by the taxpayer, not the corporation.

New York City gets a 10 percent administrative fee on top of the $37 per hour paid to the police. The City’s 2011 budget called for $1,184,000 in Paid Detail fees, meaning private corporations were paying wages of $11.8 million to police participating in the Paid Detail Unit. The program has more than doubled in revenue to the city since 2002...

More at link.

.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/10/11/oakland-police-chief-resigns-citing-lack-of-resources/

Frustrated Oakland Police Chief Resigns Citing Lack Of Resources

October 11, 2011 11:56 PM


OAKLAND (CBS 5 / KCBS) — Oakland’s police chief told city officials Tuesday it was with “great regret” that he planned to resign next month to take on other opportunities, expressing frustration at a lack of support given the police department during his two-year tenure as chief.

Word of Chief Anthony Batts’ resignation came in a letter from Oakland’s city administrator sent to City Council members and staff. The letter said the 50-year-old Batts planned to depart in early to mid-November.

Batts was hired in 2009 by Oakland after leading Long Beach’s police department for seven years.

In a statement from Batts that accompanied the administrator’s letter, he said he had answered Oakland’s call for a “reform-minded chief” two years ago, but has instead found himself managing a police force trying to reduce violent crime amid officer layoffs and cutbacks.

“Rather than a chief managing a diverse department of law enforcement professionals making the strees of Oakland safe, I found myself with limited control, but full accountability,” he said.

More at link.

http://www.baycitizen.org/blogs/pulse-of-the-bay/howard-jordan-named-acting-oakland-chief/

Howard Jordan Named Acting Oakland Police Chief

By: Bay City News Service
Updated Oct. 13, 2011, 7:12 p.m.


Oakland Mayor Jean Quan and city Administrator Deanna Santana announced Thursday that Assistant Police Chief Howard Jordan will serve as the city's interim police chief following the surprise resignation of Chief Anthony Batts earlier this week.

Jordan was sworn in at about 1:40 p.m. Thursday at the conclusion of a news conference at City Hall...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #32
76. WOW. Interesting stuff, thanks! It's all starting to make sense now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R n/t
Lou
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Remember Me Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
36. "not every police officer..." is the proper phrasing, despite how you hear
it all the time these days. Logic-it-out and you'll see.

But that's not my biggest complaint:

It goes without saying that not every person participating in these national actions are docile lambs; every movement, no matter its political denomination, is going to have its share of idiots and adrenaline-junkies. Within the 'Occupy Wall Street' movement, however, these types of people make up so small a fraction of the main as to be negligible...but they do offer authorities a nice excuse to bulldoze the whole movement,

Spoken like a true Democrat. Ever thought of running for Congress? WHAT proof do you have that there are ANY adrenaline junkies who have done ANYthing remotely susceptible to justifiable police pushback? If you have, then okay, please share it and I'll apologize. But I haven't seen a thing.

Now, this is more like it:

and it makes you wonder how many of these so-called agitators are running around causing trouble with a badge in their back pocket.

Ny gripe isn't that you didn't make the point a little more visible and LOUD. ANYTIME we see a police crackdown on "violent" or unruly protesters, you absolutely must, must, MUST suspect law enforcement itself first and foremost. Why? Because overwhelmingly, that's where it starts. We lefties are a really peaceful lot -- not that we can't get upset and throw punches, just that it's not our normal nature to reach for a physical interaction first.


Beyond agitators, there is the simple fact that not everyone is going to react like Gandhi when they get gassed, pepper-sprayed, flash-bombed, clubbed and shot with projectiles for peacefully assembling to point out a grievous wrong.

True enough, but again -- why plant the idea to watch and wait for us to misbehave, it's just a matter of time? There's just been so little reporting of that kind of thing, even.

And finally, a non-complaining comment about this:

They should remember that violence is the last refuge of the desperate, that violence directed towards these protests will only make them stronger, and will put a big, bloody underscore beneath their efforts. Every punch thrown by a police officer, every protester clubbed or gassed or bombed or shot down with a riot-control projectile, only proves the point of that protester, and invigorates the entire movement.

I don't know how much people here have thought about the dynamics of non-violent protest --- esp vis a vis Gandhi's famous quatrain:

First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win. -- Gandhi


Or whether you have thought much about the dynamics or not, but the only reason "they fight us and then we win" is true depends almost entirely on said over-reaction by police. That garners public support for pretty much any just movement. People who haven't been paying (enough) attention start, and then they learn the truth about what the protesters are all about, and then they start sympathizing if not joining, and for sure are sick at heart about the harm being done by TPTB.

Did you see this awesome video with Chris Hedges? You must: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x626281

Nice essay.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. You, too, didn't make a big enough point about agent provocateurs
Unfortunately, America has a long, well-documented history of using them against leftists, whether unions, feminists, antiwar movements, the entire hippie phenomenon, or anti-globalism protests. I'm surprised there weren't more in the civil rights movement.

But I'd bet good money that if we could suddenly open the books of the CIA, at least three new books like "Acid Dreams" could be written about operations that are going on right now. And that's not including what local police are doing in various places.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Remember Me Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Yes, thank you.
They've gotten away with it in the past, but these days not so much, starting with the anti-globalization protests whose members were armed with some cameras and videos and caught them, just as Occupy protesters are catching them. We've just got to get it out to the public. But in the meantime, all of US should damn well know about it and never, ever automatically blame lefty protesters for any sort of violence until we see absolute proof.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. The night before the LA Riots....

I was attending some function on Hollywood Blvd when outside there was a very large and very peaceful march down the street protesting the Rodney King verdict. I was struck by how diverse and how well organized and peaceful the crowd was, but I was also struck by the fact that a very large police force showed up in full riot gear. They were obviously expecting something. The next day the actual riots started and the media became focused on what was happening in South Central LA. I can tell you that there were plumes of smoke stretching across the entire horizon, all the way from Hollywood to the beaches.

Few of the 99% would want to see this level of destruction in their city, but if those who suffer the most are ignored, who knows where it could lead? This would be a good time for Democratic politicians to speak up in support of the movement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
58. My daughter's friend was orphaned by the L.A. Riots in 1992.
He was in the Korean/Japanese neighborhood. He got on his bike and rode around. When he got back the hood was in flames.

The woman who I thought was his mother, is actually his aunt, who adopted him.

He is a quarter Japanese and three-quarters Mexican.

He was seven years old when his parents died. He is a talented artist and a fine young man. He remembers Japanese as his first language.

I have heard that the only businesses in the hood were convenience stores owned by Orientals.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #58
65. Hmmm . . .
1972 . . 1992 . . 2012

Every 20 years or so, it looks like to me.
Must be a cycle of some sort.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #37
67. Interesting post .... and I wonder if those politicians who have sold themselves to elites/corps ...
have done so because they simply side with power -- ???

I don't know that there are any morals or ethics involved to move them as we might

wish them to be moved?

Sadly, it is this RW force which has gained power through violence and we have never

figured out a way to deal with the violence of the few.


And elites/corporations have far more wealth now than any other time in history and

more control over government.


It has to be a non-violent movement because violence would only further the interests

of the RW. They also have more experience and tools in their tool box for controlling

populations. Few of us get up every day thinking about how we can have control over

others.


And would just mention that we also saw the great harm done to AA communities with the

riots in New York -- Bronx -- and various other areas that were never rebuilt.

Haven't seen a report on that in some time, so don't know exact situation now.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. I believe we have plenty of power should we decide to use it...

we empower the corporations and criminals by buying their products. A few well-coordinated boycotts would get their attention. The plan to cancel bank accounts and move funds to credit unions will disempower a few banks. The oil industry will ultimately suffer from the popularity of hybrids and electric cars. This can't happen soon enough. Government will get the message from a general strike.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #70
73. Agree --- "the power of the powerless" -- !! And especially agree with you
re denying corporations our purchases -- lots of stuff we don't really need to buy.

According to some comments I've seen here, banks aren't too bothered by the moving of

accounts. Some say a lot of corporate money goes thru banks -- and obviously they

launder a lot of drug money!

Actually, imo, it should hurt -- they're referrals and customers for bank cards, for

one. Banks sit back and we go out every day and use those cards and make money for them.

PLUS, huge amounts in Social Security checks and paychecks now going thru banks --

My concern is that they will find some way to do harm to credit unions.


As for oil industry -- we've just rescued the auto industry with our bail outs -- and

they're the biggest allies of the oil industry in keeping the MPG low. Plus Congress,

of course! "Congress is controlled by the oil and coal industries" -- Al Gore/Rolling

Stone-June.

We should have nationalized the plants -- let the executives sink -- and put the workers

back to work on electric cars -- exclusively.

The people are the legitimate power.



What I was trying to direct attention to is the illegitimate power in the hands of the

violent few/elites/corporations. Many fear it -- and often find it is easier to join them.

What is the reasoning behind our candidates/elected officials selling themselves to elites/

corporations -- ??




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
41. Thanks Will. Another good one.

K & R




:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
43. Another good one Will!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. One more kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
48. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
51. KnR
Great work!

Solidarity
:grouphug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
53. REC. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
57. Already recommended, kicking now!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
59. I've always wondered: If the police actions are so "above board", why is it
they're almost always carried out in the dead of night?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #59
68. +1 --
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #59
71. Yeah!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
60. +100 Net recommendation: +100 votes (Your vote: +1)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
61. Very nice!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
72. kr
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
75. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cvoogt Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
77. Oscar Grant ..
was not shot by Oakland police but by BART police.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. Truth.
Fixed in the original. It was too late to edit here. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rugger1869 Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
78. It's never gonna be the same
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
79. Then You Win !!!!
Edited on Sat Oct-29-11 08:37 AM by Motown_Johnny
http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/2776

^snip^

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi





That would make a great OWS sign
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
82. Kick (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
83. kicking again n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
85. .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC