Why I hate the rich

[undergroundpanther]

On top of the pathological levels of sociopathic indifference they have twords the pain of others,the horrors they perpetrate against others,against the environment and everything else that exists. Despite the fact they want to OWN and CONTROL the world and if they cannot have it all that they'll make damn sure nothing else can live on/in it either. Even regardless of that zero sum ass holiness bullshit they foist upon everyone by hanging price tags on everything but themselves, to make us all pay the rich MORE..Despite their attempts to own or destroy the commons.On top of their systemic abuse of this entire nation cradle to grave. Or the intrusions their fucking companies make into our lives,and the petulant demands found in all levels of the hierarchy they whip into submission via lies,debt and free market bullshit,and the damage to our collective well being that is done to make sure the rich shall never do without a desire unmet,..

I hate them for even more,

They get to have have time,
Most people have NO time because they have been taught they must PAY to EXIST.So they must run to work and to work,school,home eat fast,go to bed late,get up early to get back to work,because wages are 1970's wages and costs have gone far past the 1070's prices.
The rich don't only get time,they have meaningful time, time to enjoy art,theatre and music,time to go socialize in a pleasant place,(Like huge homes with everything you could want in there,money to entertain and be entertained,and country clubs),without being hassled by mall cops or sales people demanding they BUY something to occupy the space. The rich live in ESTABLISHED neighborhoods not atomized suburbs.They can develop a social life.A social life is built up by having free time to enjoy being around others,do fun or interesting things,have a meaningful relationships.The RICH have made sure many of us are so alone.
http://club2.psychologies.co.uk/self/the-loneliness-epidemic/

I hate the rich they always have the means to go places I will NEVER EVER see.They are never without transportation,food,medicine, heat.They aren't late on bills,they have a never ending supply,so it is NOTHING to them and because of the disgusting wealth they have they will NEVER be haunted by debt.

The rich get to go to quality schools with low teacher to student ratios that have time to challenge them if they are smart and the motive to pass them if they are not.. The school I went to besides being a hellhole bored me to death.And because bullies took their toll on me unfettered by teachers trying to manage 40+ kids in a class, I never got to aspire to anything, I was too busy trying to survive abuse everyday .That took away my dreams for the future in about the 5th grade. My school never bothered to notice there was something terribly wrong in the school they were obeying some "higher authority" and brown nosing some rich pigs in high places..But if a rich kid if he ever set foot in a public school to begin with ever suffered a bully's cruelty that would have been attended to pronto,a rich kid with political ties in a situation like I faced would have had the entire school bending over backward and sacrificing who knows how many poor students dreams to please those rich connected parents holding power by the purse..

I hate the rich because they never feel the faceless cruelty of poverty,and they are so removed from the consequences of their lifestyles and greed they can see people like you and I as cattle,as disposable,as inferiors.. and they can deem the homeless as lazy .The rich can pretend the homeless want to be homeless,and that they deserve to suffer,for the rich won't suffer one bit,they will sleep at night regardless of how the 99% lives. The rich sleep in the best of beds in the softest of linens,security watching over them like surrogate parents.

The rich,they never have to do without anything or do anything they don't want to do once they are adults,.They have soft perfect hands because the rich have staff to cook the food,wash the dishes.They won't fuck up the budget because they have top notch professionals to manage the paperwork,manage their fucking companies for them,workers to make or do the jobs,as they see the money pour in like never ending manna from heaven. The rich never even have to manage the hassles in maintaining their lives. No budget to speak of,health care,and all the other really insane time occupying BULLSHIT that the 95% of us deal with day in day out (Like repeating over and over your name/dress/date of birth etc. to a fucking machine,or going up a phone tree trying to put you off,to get a number to call to go up ANOTHER damn phone tree until you find the person that can really fix your reason you called.They don't have to worry about forgetting to go wait in line for 3 hours at the DMV to get a little fucking sticker,with 2011,12,13..on it to put on a corner of a license plate to avoid being charged 70 or 80 bucks,or waiting in a ten mile line at a store.They hire people for pennies to do those unsavory tasks.And should that peasant forget to do that task,they can have fun firing them,and that 80 buck fee won't even be noticed.An 80 buck fee over a stupid sticker for many of us might mean no food next week.

I hate the rich because THEY get their organic pure healthy meals DELIVERED to their kitchens where staff cooks it up into beautiful culinary delights.A dinner of mac'n'cheese and tuna mixed in it isn't a culinary delight.It's survival.
A dinner out for the rich can cost 1,000 bucks a shot,a dinner out for me is panera or chinese once a while.

I hate the rich because they'll never experience trying to stay dry in a storm at a bus stop with no shelter hoping the lightening does not hit YOU today.The rich think public transportation is a waste of money,because to the rich it IS. They never need to take it,their drivers are always on call..or they could just take the new benz for a ride.
They'll never have to do the laundry,mow the most stupid thing on earth, the lawn. They'll NEVER be forced to tolerate being in our presence very long,but somehow despite their callous and cruelty aimed at us they get people like us to fawn over them to,cover their ass,and they never ever are called out for being the wastes of skin they really ARE.They never go to REAL jail or have to admit their child is a fucking bully.Why? Why do the rich deserve such velvet glove treatment from the 99% Is it because they have hired other people to make your life more miserable than they've already made it?Why do you never tell them,fuck you I'm not paying you one more dime..because you are aware the pigs will come with guns and take you away? fear losing necessities of life like heat,food medicine to mitigate the damage of pollution on your body,or stress of living in the empire built of exploitation and abuse only they the 1% ever truly enjoy, because it is designed to make you do what the rich don't want to do?

Their houses are beautiful refuges, places they want to live in,and they give the rich a sense of security we wish we could have too. Because they are rich their housing security will never be threatened by a bully landlord, taken away due to taxes they can't pay, or foreclosed by a fucking BANK,unless they want to dispose of it.They'll never have to live next to a abandoned property with boarded up windows and half dead crackheads inside screaming,and guns a blazing all night,or hear some desperate couple that were once so in love tear each other's hearts apart over debt unable to ask what are we gonna do? So terrorized and frustrated by the demands of those with too much money and control operating through a faceless thief called a bank.. The rich,their places to live are THEIRS they will never be evicted.The rich people's houses, all of them,are NEVER left un-repaired from lack of money to fix them. But in poor neighborhoods there is no money and no one that fixes it.The rich can have whatever pets they want,who's gonna tell them they can't have a cat in their own home? But the rich can demand in that special faceless and cold way a desperately lonely and heartbroken person they can't have a cat.No cat for you,poor, to love and purr against your touch starved skin,it's in a lease,break it and you are not only left without a sweet furry face that loves you,you are now without the cat,you are homeless,and still desperately lonely & heartbroken.

And if the rich feel a teeny bit stressed they can call a chauffeur and go to a spa and get massages and have a wonderful meal,go home and cry to their ever attentive staff or go do yoga with a private physical therapist, or go to a PRIVATE shrink who does not have to report,as in fork over everything you said in your "private"therapy sessions to the insurance companies or the state.

I hate the rich because the rich will NEVER be treated like I have been,despite stress bad enough to destroy me.I was depressed threatening nothing,not even speaking loud,I answered the questions,But despite EMT's saying I was ok,and my own counselor, the pigs handcuffed,frogmarched me out of my house and forced me into the back of a squad car with lights and all.I was laying down in the back seat due to a broken knee,the hand cuffs were digging into my the wrists,and I despite being called ok by my counselor and the EMT's I was delivered to a ER scared wondering if I was gonna be sent away.I went though this Because the rich people, are skeered by people who are poor or suffering,and because they encourage reporters to spread this bigoted shit about mental illness and PTSD through the news.Where the 'middle class' hears it over and over gets spooked and I get to be assumed to be DAAAAaangerous,for being so damn sad inside. WTF!? Imagine if a senator's adult son,or a koch brother's niece was treated that way,I bet heads would roll and backs will bend into pretzels to appease such barbarity..The story of that poor man might run on faux news for a week.And all those letters and prayers pouring in from the stupid republican sheep to soothe his tiny troubled heart.

All this happened because because a program that is part of the mental health services for this county has to obey selfish stupid corrupt ass-wipes,in congress falling over themselves to obey wishes of those who are stinking RICH,commanding they cut costs,to enrich themselves,so since congress doesn't want their asses pinched they pass it to the states,The state not wanting to stop sucking the ass of BUsiNESS,and blowing money on highways,instead leave it to the counties to cut the social safety net.The counties upper crusties don't want to feel a pinch so they cut the poor, the rich think we are just cattle and we can't do anything to stop them.So the social safety net is cut more and more so the rich NEVER have to face the fact the greedy create the needy,So the county has to give money to"job creators" to appease the middle class. So the county finds it cost effective cutting funds available to MY county and those cuts made mental health caseworkers working for the county/state take on client loads so huge, they have no time to go visit clients in crisis and help clients in crisis they are hired to help out of a crisis.

I hate the rich because they are NOT at all better quality of people than I am.Not one iota more deserving,fortunate or hardworking or even noble than I or you,yet they get treated as if they were..

I hate them because they assume we should suffer more so THEY never have to suffer at all.
They get to live in a beautiful world because ours is so terrible to endure.

I HATE THE RICH.Why? Because they make me Suffer so they never will have to!!

The 1% ARE the source of 99% of the PROBLEMS the 99% suffer through!

I have -0% pity for the rich.

[hughee99]

1. Maybe we should stop electing them.

We don't have any say in who runs private companies, but we could at least stop giving them political jobs as well.

[Mimosa]

92. We often elect middle class people who crave becoming rich

Once they get into office they are easily manipulated then bought. *shrug*

That's why Kennedys were better. They were already rich.

I got a kick out of the OP because I've known rich people and know how SCARY this topic would be to THEM! :7 :7 :7

Underground Panther, your portrait of how the truly rich live is 100% spot on!

[Initech]

2. I hate the rich because they will never be subjected to the crap that makes us miserable.

The TSA? They have private jets.

Credit checks? Not necessary.

Food? High fructose corn syrup is for poor people!!

Charter schools? They have private schools!

[Cal33]

85. Everybody goes through life with pain -- some more, some less -- including the

rich. There are some decent people among the rich, too. And, by the way,
not all middle-class or poor people are decent either. As for those rich
who have the power to make life miserable for others, they, too, will
have to sicken and die some day, just like anybody else.

Do what you can to fight against the wrongs that others do, but don't
waste your time hating. It only makes things worse for yourself.

[RevStPatrick]

3. I didn't read the whole thing, because it's way too long...

...but for the most part, I agree with you.

However... from my experience, many of those rich people are absolutely miserable.
For many of them, that's the only thing they have in their lives, their piles of money.

Which of course, only makes it that much worse!
Give me some of that, I'll know what to do with it!

Some of the ones that I've known don't enjoy any of it.
They have nobody who loves them, and that drives the need for more.

I'll take the people in my life who love me over piles of money any day...

[yoyossarian]

59. Yeah, I agree. They're miserable because as soon as they get any power,..

...they become gutless wonders; they won't help anyone around them, because they don't want money conflicts with friends and family.

That's what they say, at least... but in actuality, they just fall in love with that money, immediately and completely, and forget
all about family and friends. Why fear such conflict? Why wouldn't it be worth it to at least TRY to help those you supposedly care for?

Toads. There are a few who have proven throughout history that wealth CAN be used to alleviate the suffering of others, and empower
more than just the first recipient.

But they wouldn't know anything about that. They're not likely to read up on the subject of How To Be an Enlightened Capitalist, either...

Too busy cuddling their money.


God, I hate fuckin' stupid people.

[virgogal]

4. I guess you aren't an FDR or JFK or EMK fan then.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bigmack]

6. Don't hate the mentally ill...

and the super-rich are mentally ill.

That's not just my opinion.. the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders talks about "Hoarding Disorder".

Those people are "money hoarders".

They need treatment.

I recommend "Taxation Money Removal Therapy".

[undergroundpanther]

28. I usually

get irritated at posts deriding the truly mentally ill,

but this one is hilarious. :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. YOUR????

:rofl:

welcome to DU. enjoy your stay!

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. Grammar was obviously highly overrated in your school, I see.

:eyes:

Your..... should be ...."you're"

and you to will be rich...should be...and you TOO will be rich

Talk about idiot. :eyes:

[Herlong]

8. Hatred is unhealthy

The problem is the unhealthy nature of our culture. You should use that energy to make our culture a better place for all of us to live.

[undergroundpanther]

16. I do hate and I am not ashamed of it.

Hate and anger serves a function,otherwise we would not have those emotions built into us so deeply.Hate is VISCERAL emotion a survival emotion...

Yes our culture is disgusting,and it is abusive,and guess what,our wishes dreams and lives have been exploited,our way of thinking and feeling are distorted.Hate is the sane reply to abuse and long socially accepted exploitation with no way to redress the injustices, make it end,walk away from it or even defend oneself from it. Pacifism is ok up to a point. That point is when you are dealing with sociopaths or fascists,you cannot argue with them,convince or reason either because they have no sense of empathy .They don't care about you or how you are so hate-free and you cannot appease what seeks to ruin you and does not care how awful it is for you..You cannot fix them,"heal" them.It's what they ARE.

Sociopaths do understand force.They will abuse pacifists,they will dominate people that think they are healing them. They only will stop when they are seen for what they ARE and are FORCED to stop.Pacifism is a useless tactic when dealing with authoritarian personalities. Hate is the energy that comes up when pacifism fails and hope lies bleeding along with innocent people. In this situation hate is sane.

Do you really think playing nice to Hitler would stir his evil heart and make him say said oh dear I'm sorry I'll stop murdering people that are not aryan enough to me because you asked me so nicely your suffering moves me to tears...No, he was FORCED to stop by the threat of being put on trial by an enemy..Or imagine Pol pot faced with a pacifist protest moving his cold blood saying I see your point non-violence is the answer! I'll stop killing people and torturing them,I'll just step aside now and let the intellectuals run the show,I feel so awful, I have been so blind.My bad..
You know that will never happen in reality. Pol pot and Hitler had to be forced to stop as in killed ,it is same with the psychopath with immense wealth and power. They will not stop because you were so very careful to not offend the cops,middle class,tea party assholes or the "moderates" or whatever else that must never be scared..

What is happening IS scary. It has always been, It is painful,scary to stop an empire gone crazy be it Ancient Rome, or plutocrat/fundamentalist tyrants in the USA.


Tell me when is it Ok to hate the fascists? Fascism is corporatism,state merged with capitalism.The country being run like a business.That is the kind of civilization we have here. It's not a democracy.If it was we would have no homeless people,no people working more hours for less and paying more to exist,would we? I never had a say about that stupidity and waste called a suburb,but they are everywhere wasting space full of cars making the air make me sick..

Is it ok to hate when they bust your door down and shoot your dog because oops,the guy with the pot garden was next door..?
Ok to feel hate when they have made all the water in rivers lakes and streams so polluted and toxic you wouldn't even THINK of drinking it,and the fish are full of mercury? Howabout after they've taken your house? Killed your pet because they wanted to fill pet food with melamine on the cheap?
Howabout when the seas have no more life in them? Or when breathing makes you sick,and the food is poison? Can I hate them yet?
Howabout when everything and everyone that you ever loved,anything you cherished,life and this planet itself is destroyed? Can I hate the rich psychopaths then?

When is it OK to admit you feel hate ? How much abuse,murder,lies,destruction & consumption per dollar can you ignore and not feel hatred in your heart at the psychopaths and their profit system doing it?

That is what the 1% are worthy of,hatred. Hatred is the honest reaction one has when a planet one has to live upon is dying at the invisible hands of a market driven by a murdering class of psychopaths who want to own the whole world and make themselves king of it all and still want to perpetuate a system of domination called"civilization"upon this world.

It's what this civilization and those who's insatiable greed for profit and power extracting more and more from everyone and everything so the 1% get richer and more powerful,does to finite planets. To me, not hating that and what controls it is what is really truly insane.If that reality is just too scary,go ahead & deny it,most people do.

Regardless if people do not face up that we have been abused,exploited and we and our planet and everyone is being murdered by the 1% pushing everything to it's limits,not just this country over a cliff it's this planet too..Realize the profit driven resource extracting machine/people will keep going,they could care less if you hate or don't I'll keep my hatred of the machine and the people using it to exploit and destroy me and everyone else and everything until the machine is crushed.Because I'm not very good at lying to myself about what I honestly feel.I can't breathe with sand up my nose.

Maybe when I'm dead along with the lakes, the tigers,fish,trees,birds,forests ,billions of people,and by then it doesn't really matter if I hated the rich making people lie, play make believe about all this shit and stubbornly trying to save an empire/civilization/culture that's killing me,you,the planet and everything that lives here ,and everything we ever loved does it?

[AntiFascist]

20. There are rich people who are not economic fascists....

they may be few and far between, or there may be more than we realize who can at least sympathise with the 99%.

The energy of the movement is best directed toward those who are actively destroying our society by bringing about an economy where losses are socialized and profits are privatized. True fascism is all about social Darwinism and weeding out those who are considered weak or undesirable by the PTB.

[undergroundpanther]

26. capitalism

IS social darwinism,

In capitalism the biggest richest company weeds out other companies ,by crushing competition,and it adapts to changing markets, blah blah and it lasts longer gets bigger and makes more money..

In social darwinism(eugenics) theory when the weak are weeded out by the strong,the strong exploit resources and the weaker and adapt to become stronger and they survive as the weak are weeded out.

In Darwinism The strongest survive and adapt to changing environments and the weaker traits die out and the species survives.

Tell me how they differ?

[AntiFascist]

29. Do you equate strength with wealth?

If one assumes that wealth = strength then in the natural course of evolution the wealthy may very well win.

Wealth only has power over the greedy. I realize that our society tends to foster and idolize those who are greedy, but young people, and those who are young at heart, may not be so easily corrupted. The youth have brains and these days are highly organized.

I equate strength with intelligence and heart.

[undergroundpanther]

31. Money = Power

In this capitalist system.

If we were not in a profit driven plutocracy maybe intelligence and heart would be a valuable thing a precious strength.

[AntiFascist]

34. MLK was one of the most powerful Americans who ever lived...

and it wasn't due to his wealth.

[Laluchacontinua]

37. Tain't so, McGee. Wealth has power over all of us. Witness our crashed economy,

which sends the greedy and non-greedy alike to the unemployment line.

Which renders the greedy and non-greedy homeless.

Which takes food out of the mouths of children & income out of the pockets of the elderly.

From which issues famine in the third world & economic refugees around the globe.

Which is not done with us yet.

[AntiFascist]

57. I believe economic fascism exerts that kind of power which we are witnessing now..

unbridled capitalism has led to this, but the challenge is to bring it back under proper regulation and control. Criminals need to be brought to justice and, most of all, the government needs to be aware that this will not be tolerated. Economic fascism may not be done with us yet, but at least people are starting to wake up.

[Laluchacontinua]

60. Just because our live's seemed OK before the current crisis doesn't mean

the rich weren't playing games with other people's lives in other places. It's what they do.

Vietnam, Iraq, Hitler's financiers, etc. T'was ever thus.

[AntiFascist]

88. Hitler's financiers brought about fascism....

that's what I'm talking about. Anti-communism has been with us for quite a while and this, traditionally, has been the ruse used by the 1% to get the upper and middle classes to follow along. To the 1%, a true democratic government is as bad as communism because it would never allow them to get away with what they want.

[Laluchacontinua]

90. You're moving the topic, which originally was about wealth & power, not

communism.

The wealthy have power over us; that's a fact. In a multitude of ways. Communism & spiritual wealth just don't have anything to do with that fact.

[AntiFascist]

96. My main point is...

what we have now is worse than just capitalism. If we had a truly representative government that stood up for the interests of the people then wealth would have little power over us or them. We would have checks and balances in place that would prevent 'socializing the losses'. Is it too much to ask that our own politicians, at least in our party, not give in to their greed?

[Laluchacontinua]

97. The period of time in which checks & balances prevented "socializing the losses" under

capitalism = zero.

You may not have been in a group into which the losses were socialized, but there's always been a lot of people who were. The only thing that's changed is that they're now they're bringing the war home to the white middle/professional classes all at once.

[AntiFascist]

101. Then it's time for some real CHANGE....

calling for an end to capitalism altogether would most likely be futile and most of the 99% will not go along with it, but calling for an end to a capitalist government that allows losses to be socialized is, just maybe, a concept that people can grasp onto. I don't want to hear any more excuses about how, traditionally, this has never been possible under a capitalist system and that politicians can and will be bought off. The time for those politicians must come to an end!

[Mimosa]

94. The very rich actually stick together

Because they have interests and investments in common.

The rich people know about (entertainers for instance) aren't usually all that wealthy compared to an average DuPont heir, or people you've nver heard of.

[Laluchacontinua]

99. Everyday life under "democracy" is all about social darwinism & weeding out those

considered weak or undesirable by the ptb.

Fascism is just an attenuated form of capitalism. Capitalism in extremis, if you will.

[AntiFascist]

107. It's sad when everyday life under democracy...

becomes accepted as a form of fascism. With each new generation we are slowly forgetting what it means to stand up against the "establishment" or "Speak truth to power," a phrase which originated with anti-war Quakers.

[Laluchacontinua]

110. I grew up in a Quaker (Friends) family. Did you know the source of their power

was the banking industry?

Barclays = a Quaker bank. The Quakers were great financiers of their time. Finance was the underpinning of Philadelphia's one-time power & wealth too.

A lot of Quakers who refused to take up arms had no such scruples about making money in the defense industry of their day (munitions). Like the Galton family in the UK. The Quakers held slaves; their anti-slavery stance coincided with their movement into finance. Once they'd amassed a lot of capital from the use of slaves.

So you know, take all the quaker propaganda with a grain of salt. Beneath all religions speaking truth to power, there's power fighting other powers. Organized religion is about power.

Sorry to be so contrary, it's that kind of weekend. I feel that people are still wearing too many rose-colored glasses.

[AntiFascist]

116. I wasn't intending to endorse any brand of organized religion....

my point was simply that the meme: "Speak Truth to Power" originated long ago (18th century?) and continued to be used up through the 60's and 70's in an anti-war context.

As for the "rose-colored glasses", my other point is that we are in deeper trouble now than just capitalism on steroids. A former Supreme Court justice has stated that Bush ushered in an era of fascism, spelling out the economics that define it as such. I haven't seen that Obama, or too many other Democratic politicos, are doing much about this basic problem.

[Laluchacontinua]

32. Rich people want us to hate ourselves or hate the targets they so thoughtfully designate for us.

Much healthier to hate the rich, IMO.

[undergroundpanther]

38. yep

:toast:

[bluestate10]

70. FUCKING EXACTLY!!!! You nailed it.

If a person does not like what exists, create an alternative. Teafucks were successful in the 2010 elections because they organized and sacrificed their differences, in most cases, to further their goals. To many on DU complain about society, too few seem to realize they can change that society by taking small, continuous steps.

[BrendaBrick]

9. While I really understand where you are coming from here

Believe me - I do! I also know that that it is probably not true to categorize ALL RICH as being BAD. There are many shades of gray. SOME rich act as you described indeed, many (most do) - but by the same token some just....don't.

So while I feel your frustrations, please try not to lump them all together anymore than you would like for someone to lump you as being "x" according to your economic standpoint. I think it is best to consider each individual on a case-by-case basis.

That is kind of the basis behind tolerance, after all.

[undergroundpanther]

17. I am not tolerant

of intolerable people doing intolerable things.

Why are you tolerating it?

And I hate in degrees.I totally DESPISE the 1 %
Less rich,a case by case basis. In a capitalistic profit driven system,getting ahead in business requires one stop having certain compassion for others.

Could you fire a person who depends on that wage to feed a baby? Than do you think it's fine a parent get stressed out,argue over money,baby detects something is wrong, cries all night,and the family,unable to get work quick enough starts falling apart..Just so your boss can get richer. Do you see what I mean about degrees?.

Is it ok for a moderately rich person with a small business who can't afford biodegradable ink uses ink full of VOC's that makes his workers get sick after working with his company for a few years? Is that cost (workers health )permissible for a company to survive?

Ok Because well off people who drive,don't think they really need to build a public transport infrastructure right now and instead spend that money on other shit,and in turn people keep on driving cars and the oil companies profiting insane levels drill under water to meet the demand for oil,cut corners and dump a few million gallons of it into the gulf of mexico on earth day..is that tolerable?


Where does it get intolerable.

There are lots of "good" people out there who never think of what their ambitions really cost.
Little Eichmann's are everywhere.And I am quite sure they do very well --for themselves.

[bluestate10]

71. You are a socialist. And a social moocher. You are likely none of either.

But I just chose to do to you what you did to the rich in your post. There are some good rich people that are using a lot of their money to do good. And there are too many rich people that care for no one but themselves. You must learn to differentiate, only then will you have a chance of making the change that you claim you want.

[Nye Bevan]

11. You hate Alan Grayson?

Grayson was ranked as the 11th-wealthiest member of Congress in 2010, based on financial disclosure forms with a minimum net worth of $31.41 million, according to Roll Call.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grayson

[undergroundpanther]

21. what types

of ethical compromises did he make to get the money to get elected? Or was he born into it? Do you know? or do you just look at the moment? Every rich person in this system has had to do bad things to get rich unless they were born in it.If his parents or spouse or spouses parents did bad to make money why did he stand by?.
How bad were these things.I am pretty sure rep. Grayson isn't going to tell you or me about it.

I am very skeptical of a wealthy person's ethical sanity. Why? because of capitalism's structure rewards psychopathy and the profit motive.

I don't trust rich people.

[Nye Bevan]

24. I hate bad people. Many rich people are good people.

Many poor people are bad people.

Try to judge people by the content of their character; not the size of their bank balance.

[undergroundpanther]

27. sorry

I have been hurt too much by callous rich assholes to really give them another chance .
I don't have to trust anyone I feel I cannot trust,to push me to trust when I have seen and faced enough crap caused by rich people in my life,and others I care about to ever trust them.

If you are bothered by my jadedness twords the rich and profit driven entities that is a problem you have.

[Nye Bevan]

39. Apology accepted.

Go ahead and hate Alan Grayson, Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama, John Kerry, Frank Lautenberg and Tom Harkin, simply because they are rich. I don't really care.

[undergroundpanther]

44. Not trusting

Is not despising I do not trust,and I am wary,I don't like what I cannot trust.Grayson until I am satisfied by WHO he is,I will continue to be wary.
Get it.

Or are you well off yourself, I dunno but I wonder.

[Nye Bevan]

47. So you've moved from "hating" to "not trusting but not despising". That's progress. (nt)

[undergroundpanther]

56. I still hate rich people

I thought about my reply to you and I thought why am I compromising my stance? I am not mitigating my stance.If my emotions bother you and HATE is too intense of a word for you,tough shit.Don't read my posts.There are others that understand what I mean,and are as pissed off and feel hate too.
I didn't start the class war,the rich did. I hate rich people calling the poor trash,lazy,we choose to be poor or that we deserve to suffer. They talk about poor people like we are roaches in their martini glasses.I hate their patronizing attitudes when they think they are helping poor people get a hand up,not a hand out....
Guess that kind of thing never happened to you has it? If you are poor enough you will hear& it feel it and observe, other rich people standing around that asshole will say nothing about that kind of shit said about the poor also.

Rich people aren't even aware of how much they piss people off.It's not like you would ever stop to consider that in your desperation that I only hate certain rich people and spare the ones YOU say are good.Why should I trust your opinion? I have no idea who you are.

Maybe this can help you.
http://www.utilitarian.net/singer/by/2002----03.htm
http://www.3s4.org.uk/drivers/attitudes-towards-domestic-poverty

[bluestate10]

76. Oh. Never mind.

:shrug:

[bluestate10]

74. There are some good rich people.

Not all of those people got where they are by gouging out people's eyeballs, or even by toeing the line of ethics, barely staying on the legal side. There are rich people that are rich because they have a passion for the products that they produce and a passion for working with other people to produce those products. Learn to differentiate, that will slowly open your eyes and allow you to drive toward building the fair, equitable society which you envision.

[Mimosa]

100. $31.41 mil is not 'rich' to the 1%

I think many here have no idea how rich the truly rich are. A net worth of 31.41 isn't all that much.

Many corporate CEOs make that much ANNUALLY.

IMO the truly rich have a net worth of 300 million. ;)

[flamingdem]

13. On NPR a pundit said he was surprised with how mild OWS is considering

how totally f*cked the ex-middle class etc. is at this point.

Anger is very useful for inspiring action and I hope you can use yours to good effect for all the 99%

[Herlong]

14. Martin luther king Jr. We Shall Over Come

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJoWrLQWrEc

[undergroundpanther]

33. We shall

with the black panthers backing us up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

114. Are They Still Around?

.

[unkachuck]

15. K&R....n/t

[Zorra]

18. I don't care if people have a lot of money and stuff. I do care

that they use their money to control our government and subsequently our lives so that they can make more profit and gain more control.

I do care when they wantonly waste enormous amounts of our natural resources to support gluttonous lifestyles.

This gives us the moral and ethical right to divest them of their source(s) of control over us.

We will cause them to lose the weapons they use against us - money, and the power money brings.

[Cid_B]

19. Sheesh.. what a whinefest....

[undergroundpanther]

22. geez

what do you care,don't like the thread go read something else . Why can't disgruntled assholes just go read something else and quit whining about threads they don't like .Shit,grow up yourself whiny.

[bluestate10]

77. Yep. That is the ticket. Set those that disagree with you to Ignore.

Ask, no DEMAND, that they don't read your OP. Very democratic and socially adept you are, NOT!!! You will grow, if ever, you get a small beam of realization that your OP and your basic outlook on life is screwed up. Until, just Ignore those that don't Amen distorted thinking.

[undergroundpanther]

81. you were never put on ignore

Why did you assume I would do that maybe you need a distorted thinking check yourself.

[itsallhappening]

23. It's not a zero-sum game.

But it's easier to think it is.

[undergroundpanther]

36. well go ahead and tell yourself

that if it makes it easier for you to accept intolerable,inequalities and abuses that make people money in this capitalistic failure of a system.

[Laluchacontinua]

54. Actually, it is. But it takes some thought to see it.

[white_wolf]

25. Some people have mentioned a people like Grayson, and other good rich people.

Here is the thing, the interests of the rich are opposed to the interests of the working class. The interests of some guy working at Wal-mart are not the same as the interests of Bill Gates. Is Bill Gates necessary a bad person? I would say no, otherwise he would not be giving 90% of his money to charity. The problem is that to get all his money he had to make decisions that hurt a lot of people, but even if he took the high road and refused, someone else would have came along and made those decisions. The problem is not the people, but the system. Change the system, you will change the people.

[TBF]

78. "Change the system, you will change the people "

That is how I look at it as well. I know others will disagree, but I see folks who are raised in this system and go along with "the game" so to speak because that is what we are taught to do by our parents, teachers, neighbors etc... I guess perhaps those who reject it all along are "better" people - I dunno. But I have a hard time buying that because I think most people are just trying to get by and feed their families.

So, I am with you. The whole system has to go or at the very least we've got to evolve to a Scandanavian-type socialist state. At the very least. Capitalism is killing all of us and the planet - sitting around blaming this or that rich folk is pointless. Get to work to change it.

[Laluchacontinua]

91. The "self" that thinks & acts on the thoughts it thinks is created by whatever it's born into.

That includes the family, the society, and the material conditions.

It's a peculiar feature of this particular arrangement that we pretend there is some "self" that can stand outside & judge independently.

[Puzzledtraveller]

30. have you considered you are rich also?

Are you living in a mud hut in drought stricken land, surrounded by civil war, genocide, unthinkable famine? I am rich in my own ways, and rich in mind and spirit, and rich in thanks.

[Douglas Carpenter]

35. you have a point..Compared to the third world (the vast majority of humanity)

Most western people are very rich.I have lived in parts of the third world a good deal of my life and that is absolutely true. But they do have something most western people don't have - At least most third world people - a real sense of belonging.

[Puzzledtraveller]

41. I don't have much

except a car, a modest one bedroom apartment, near a train track (the rate was good, and affordable) I have my personal affects, pictures, memories, things to pass the time, books, music, games, the computer I'm typing this on, I have food in my fridge and cupboards, a modest job where I see people much worse off, where they sometimes break down crying in my office. I went to a community college,never got a degree, paid for it with G.I. Bill, worked full time while I went to school full-time. It's not just Wall Street, or Capitalism, or Democrats or Republicans, collectively, all our priorities are f*cked.

[undergroundpanther]

46. yeah they are

And I HATE it and at the same time it hurts and tears holes in my heart.

Some people cannot grasp a person can hate, mourn and feel so bad for for people who suffer too all at the same time.
They assume my emotions are simple,why do they insist it all be so simple, because in reality it's a state of complex turmoil I feel. And I cannot wrap words around it. except I hate,I'm so ungodly pissed off ,I am so sad,and it hurts so bad sometimes I want to die,because I cannot stand it.

[Puzzledtraveller]

48. I have been saying something similar

for some time it's been gnawing at me, that We, are so alone, so cut off from one another and the illusion of connection only makes it worse. I didn't really know this until I got a job with the state as a case worker, helping families get food stamps, medicaid and other assistance. I see many people each day, and everyone is unique, with unique stories, but one thing in common, they hurt, for whatever reason they hurt, and noone can ask "what ails thee?" That's all they really want. I take the time to listen, even when I have several other clients waiting, I try to assure them that it's okay to need help, but to never give up, because their are people who really care. I used to spend my days looking at the ground,while out, in a store, rarely making eye contact, passing a stranger on the street, in elevators, when I started my job, I didn't even look at the clients, I looked past them, or away. I try now to look in their eyes, everyones, and take time to say something.

I'm not guilt tripping either, I understand what you are feeling, intimately. I do what I can for me, as in keeping my spirit from crashing, I know things won't right themselves completely. I am beginning to understand however that there was and is as much wrong with me, as their is with anyone. I fight hate, daily, in my own heart, and it's hard, really hard.

[Mimosa]

98. Puzzledtraveller, a warm welcome to Democratic Underground from an old timer

I'm not all that old. ;) But I've been posting here for a long time.

I'm glad you're here to inform us what's going on from your perspective.

I bet you've helped so many. *HUG*

[loyalsister]

50. I sympathize with that perspective

I consider myself quite fortunate to be in the situation I am in.
I live on less than $700\month. I have a disability and have access to health care because of it. I can do a lot of things I want to do, because, I live in public housing, buy stuff I need at thrift stores, don't own a car, get some food stamps, etc. Yet, I have a lot of time to read. I participate in volunteer work that I find satisfying. I have friends in similar situations with whom I socialize. I even find my way to spending time with people who live a more mainstream life.
In short, I have a roof, dinner, a shower, people who I like in my life, and a way to spend my time that I find valuable. I am in this situation because of a disability. From the outside, some think that it is all a huge horrible price and must be a tortured experience. But, I feel comfortable as I can read a lot, and do things I want to do within my sphere of possibility. I have learned too much from the experiences I have had and people I know to feel like I would change it.
I am also quite aware of the fact that government has made my life easier than it could be. I laugh at people who are surprised by my satisfaction with my life. The condescension is irritating, but I appreciate having allies.

[undergroundpanther]

42. I wish I could

Go live in a mud hut with a tribe that had no use for profits .

But,here I have no tribe,so if I can't compete and WIN, I'll starve in the street.
A tribe cares about it's members,they share so none go without..(that is before agriculture and modern rapacious empires started colonizing and wiping out tribes.

A plutocratic empire like this could care less if I am dead ,alive, happy or what as long as I can be used for profit.

A egalitarian oriented tribe with a different culture with no imperialists or empires wanting to kill it if it can't dominate it and rob it of it's home
living in mud huts do not have America's rate of suicide either.
assets.survivalinternational.org/static/.../PPM_informe_completo.pdf
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/06/21/the-suicide-paradox-full-transcript/

Industrial civilization has made people crazy.Maybe it's all the industrial runoff,sewage, chemicals and oil in the water here.

[Puzzledtraveller]

43. I do understand, and you are right

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. well they do go without..but they go without together. still the gap between rich in poor in the

third world is more shocking than what one usually finds in the western world - at least the scale of it. And this is not some strange anomaly. This is the vast majority of the world. Believe me - that vast majority of people would give their right arm to have what you have or what I have. There is more sense of belonging in a third world culture for most people. But things are certainly not fair or egalitarian - not at all. The sense of belonging comes with the surrender of one's own interest, one's own needs desires and dreams and one's own individuality for the sake of the family. But of course people judge things by the world they live in. And certainly life in America does seem to be moving toward an ever increasing gap that at some point could reach third world levels without the support culture to compensate.

[undergroundpanther]

49. Where I live I have no

one.I live in suburbs,I feel so wary here ,I think,this isn't my culture it's too affluent and shallow too much pretending and bullshit,misdirected aggression,I can't stand these people,. I would be better off in the city,more people similar to myself live there,I don't live here voluntarily I can't afford to stay here on my own ,yet I am terribly alone stuck in my mom's house tending for it even tho I can't do it anymore. I see forests that stood here since I was a kid torn to the ground for more business parks,parking lots Cull de sacks and for what?A new business park while one nearby is half vacant,and as more forests turn into lawns I see the roadkills,the beautiful foxes,deer cats,birds hit by cars with so much violence it gives me nightmares.When I walk(I can't afford a car)I feel the force and violence of cars as they pass and it tweaks me out.I live around people who yell at checkout clerks until they cry,where passing cars full of boys in men suits get a charge out of revving their monster trucks at stoplights to push pedestrians to walk faster. This isn't where I belong. I feel like I'm like a polar bear trying to walk on ice breaking under my paws or a bobcat treed,waiting for the shot that will stop the baying dogs,chainsaws and whoops of the hunters who used technology I never knew existed so I never had a chance to escape and live. And honestly a mud hut and somewhere where I belong with people that I care about and who care about me deep and far away from all this would be better than this.
And snotty people have no idea how I can hate and care, hurt and feel so sad.
What have we become?

[Douglas Carpenter]

51. well much of western society - particularly much of America is deeply alienated

no doubt about that. But the caring society where one feels a real sense of belonging does come at a price - it does mean less individuality. I fear the problem with America is that a large portion of the society is becoming poor and poor all alone.

[Puzzledtraveller]

52. I had a similar upbringing

I like to believe the difference was that during summer break my brother and I would spend summer with my mom in San Antonio, she had little, much much less than the life my father provided in the suburbs, upper middle class. There were drive by shootings in my moms neighborhood, it was common in the early 80's. It was a old house, you could always count on roaches, no air conditioning, except for a window unit she only ran in the evening and for only a couple of hours, we would shut all the doors to the den and hang out infront of the AC. She had only minimum wage jobs, still does, and she lives in the same house. She always made sure we had what we needed, my dad was always late on child support or never paid. She introduced my brother and I to the first gay person we ever knew, his name was Andy, I was maybe 8, and my brother would have been 13, she worked with him in a sandwich shop, she made sure to tell us that he was no different, and nothing to be afraid of, I know that sounds silly but this was some time ago, and sentiments were different even then. He succumbed to complications brought on by AIDS. My father was different, and for a long time I resented him, eventhough he provided the very best for us. He has changed, a lot, people can change, my brother came out too and my father accepted that. Me, I didn't care, he is my brother and I love him. I had to forgive my father, and eventually I did. I have been letting go of hate ever since. Yet I am thankful for having been able to experience both in life, having and not having, diversity, and acceptance, seeing people change. Don't despair, you have power.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

112. Infant mortality, life expectancy, adult literacy, nutrition, status of women, etc, etc

With the single exception of pollution, I suspect that there is no measure of quality of life which has not increased massively at all levels of society as a result of industrial civilisation.

[Laluchacontinua]

55. Living in a house v. a hut doesn't make one rich, for all that it might appear so to the person

in the hut.

Neither does living in a war zone v. a peace or any of the other things you mention.

It's not about where or how you live; it's about control over human beings and resources. By a stroke of his pen, someone like Warren Buffett can send thousands to the unemployment line, initiate famine & war, etc.

Can you, rich in spirit though you may be?

Doubtful. All you can do is richly endure or manage the conditions that others have created for you.

[HughBeaumont]

63. You know, you should know better than this.

This false equivalency bullshit is odious when Republicans pull it. It's even more galling when supposed Democrats use it. Just ask my wife how "high on the hog" the poor people on her case load have it. It completely belittles people's real struggles in this country. Squalor is squalor; it's not something to be turned into a one-down dick-swinging contest. It's funny how America's impoverished are never compared to the poor people of Sweden or Germany or France . . .

[occupyeverywhere]

64. Right-wing talking point

[Puzzledtraveller]

65. Yes, I open my RW evening talk show with this every night

If you're going to take the time to post, be constructive, oh darb, I fel for your trap, I am so ashamed...:cry:

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. I don't. some are pretty nice people. Some have a sense of fairness. I just want the system to be

fair. But I agree most are insulated and have no more sense of the struggles of ordinary people than the average middle class American has a sense of life for the vast majority of humanity in what is called the third world - which is after all - most people. But hate them? Nah, I wish I was rich myself. But mostly I just want things to be fair.

[yoyossarian]

53. I LOVE YOU, PANTHER.

Thank you for a heart-breakingly honest post.
FUCK the fucking rich; they're all so fucking smug and well-fed and ignorant and unfeeling; they
call themselves Christians, but if Christ were here, he'd punch them all in their fucking fat faces.

And they actually wanta run Chris Christie for president... HA! That overfed asshole looks like he ATE TAFT.

This has been going on FOREVER... but it won't go on much longer, not this insane level of
inequality and injustice. They can't sustain this fucking nightmare much longer.

The people united will not be divided.
Til' then, all my best to you.

:hug:

:loveya:

[inna]

58. kr+8... amazing thread, actually. this is one of the reasons i still love DU.

[B Calm]

61. Republicans need to stop putting the wealthy before We the People!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

62. And this is why the right wing aren't entirely wrong about the left :-s

Irrational hatred is never pretty.

This kind of schpiel is worse that useless - it gives firepower to the right wing, and it undermines the position of the sane left, which is "we don't hate the rich, in an ideal world we'd like to see them become even richer, but when there is a conflict of interest in the setting of economic policy we will support the interests of the poor in preference".

[HughBeaumont]

104. Why, pray tell, "in an ideal world, would we like to see them become richer?"

What good has vast wealth inequality done America? Has it resulted in those wealthy being benevolent or enlightened; perhaps coming to grips with the fact that if you don't have a well-educated, well-paid work force, you don't have business? All evidence points against it - jobs numbers, savings rate, wage stagnation/decline, etc. How does capitalism sustain itself if the balance is lead-weighted on one side? In what fantasyland does business expand and profit without additional business? Do we cut even more jobs and make the survivors do three times the work until their jobs are cut and so on?

Or is this merely another garbage assertion of the libertarian mindset that dictates "prosperity depends on the deep pockets of the wealthy, so get out of their way"?

If we're fishing for something less than useless, it's when supposed liberals play the "class warfare" card. Whether you choose to see it or not, the left very much has a strong case for being disgusted at the wealthy and their brand of winner-take-everything capitalism they've been fisting us with since the 70s.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

111. I'm afraid I think you're responding to what you think I said, not what I actually said.

What I actually said was "in an ideal world we'd like to see them become even richer, but when there is a conflict of interest in the setting of economic policy we will support the interests of the poor in preference."

The good that vast wealth inequality has done America is that it has benefitted the haves. That *is* a good thing *in itself*, it's just not as good as the fact that it's disadvantaged the have-nots is bad. I'm not for a moment advocating policies aimed at making the rich richer, what I *am* saying is that "the rich will get poorer" must by placed in the debit and not the credit side when weighing up the pros and cons of a policy intended to make the poor richer. It won't weigh for much, but it certainly mustn't be treated as of negative weight.

Are you familiar with the concept of Pareto efficiency? There's a reasonable summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficiency; my view is that any Pareto-efficient change is a good thing (modulo the next paragraph).

If you're defining wealth in terms of money rather than purchasing power there's a slight issue with the rich gaining more of it reducing the purchasing power of the poor's money, and hence not being Pareto efficient, but if you define wealth in terms of purchasing power then this ceases to be a problem. A society with a fixed number of fish where one person has $10 to buy fish and the others all have $1 is inferior to a society where ten people have $1 to buy fish from that same number, but a society where one person has 10 fish and everyone else only has 1 is a better society than one where everyone only has 1 fish, even though it's less just (taxing the person with 10 fish and giving fish to the poor is better still, but the taking of fish from the rich is a drawback and not an advantage.

Class warfare should never be about eliminating the rich; it should be about eliminating the poor.

[Lucky Luciano]

66. I stopped reading after the first paragraph - too incoherent. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. "too incoherent."

Really!

[A HERETIC I AM]

95. LOL Lucky.

^5.
:fistbump:

Hope you're well, man.

Keep your shorts tight and your longs liquid.

[bluestate10]

67. I have no sympathy for you.

May be you should hate yourself. The average person WILL take back the economy and exercise control over it and close the wealth gap when the average person demonstrates the discipline to do so. Until then, the rich will feast off the average person. I see posts on DU decrying big banks. Guess what? Don't fucking do business with a big bank.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. That's A Bit Harsh

Perhaps writing is a cathartis for the original poster.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

69. I hate the selfish, the greedy, and the malicious.

Those come in both rich and non-rich flavors.

[lonestarnot]

72. K & R!

[Courtesy Flush]

73. Wow, I totally disagree.

I don't hate the rich for what they have. That's poisonous thinking.

What I hate is the way they have been allowed to run the country, and take from the rest of us. I hate the way they've put their own greed ahead of the good of the nation. I hate that they're not satisfied with all they have, and want to take more from us.

The things the OP said about the rich would still be true if they only made about $750K per year. They'd still have the best of everything. I don't have a problem with people having it good when they have money. I have a problem with them not knowing when to stop.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. I Fail To See The Efficacy Of Making Broad Generalizations

My hero is Muhammad Ali. He is certainly part of the one percent.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

80. -1.

:wtf:

[mahina]

83. I don't hate anybody.

But will work for publicly financed elections. http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=4846213

Imua.

[Texasgal]

84. Money isn't everything.

Living modestly is a lifestyle that I look up to. Having "things" or the ability to do "things" wouldn't make me slap happy.

Sure, I wouldn't mind having a better car or a vacation home in the mountains or the ability to travel across the world. Who wouldn't? Money is not what makes my world go 'round though. I find peace and beauty in many things. I suspect many of us do, rich or poor.

[InvisibleTouch]

86. Um, so you hate a whole group of people because they have some things you don't?

I understand that's not totally what you're saying, as there are absolutely individuals who deserve contempt if they make decisions that poison the environment without remorse or put vast numbers of people out of work without a second thought. But the rant comes off mostly as petulant envy that "the rich" have some cool toys that you don't.

In fact there are good and bad people on all economic levels - and the bad ones deserve contempt on in individual-merit basis, not because they're part of some nebulous social group.

I've many times come across people who at first glance seemed to have a great life, to have many resources and advantages that I didn't have, and didn't have the struggles that I have. Some have been and remain my good friends. I certainly don't hate them for having some things that I'd like to have; if anything, they're an inspiration to me, because I feel like "if she/he can achieve this, so can I." And looking just a little deeper, I see what a terrible price they've paid to have their "great life," and I realize that I wouldn't change places with anyone for all the wealth in the world. They may in some ways have it easier than I do, but in other ways they have it worse, and not a one of them is worth my envy.

[Nye Bevan]

87. BTW what is the exact net worth level for triggering your unbridled hatred?

$10,000?

$100,000?

$1,000,000?

and are we including the value of the primary residence?

[True Earthling]

89. Sounds more like hate fueled by envy and jealously...

Possessions do not define what a person is... many decent, caring people become rich for various reasons... some because because of determination, hard work, intelligence and creativity. Some because of being in the right place at the right time or being born into the right family. I'm not saying all rich people are decent but there is no direct correlation between moral values and possessions. Being poor doesn't make one more moral than the rich and being rich does not make one less moral.

Your treatise screams of victomhood... (I HATE THE RICH.Why? Because they make me Suffer so they never will have to!!). That sounds like a self-defeatist attitude. If you really believe that it's now wonder you feel powerless and miserable.

[Laluchacontinua]

103. I don't think the OP sounds like that at all. I think "jealousy" is a standard talking

point when someone points out the inequities of our system -- which have nothing to do with how "caring" anyone is, or personal moral values.

I hear JD Rockefeller was a paragon of morality in his personal life. It didn't stop him from murdering people when they threatened his income. Or murdering people to get more income, for that matter.

Nor does it stop lots of "caring" people from supporting wars of conquest at home and abroad.

You mock the OP for wanting to have food, clothing & shelter, time for personal relationships & access to culture? You think that's about "jealousy"? No, that's about wanting an actual human life instead of a life in the pantopticon prison.

[True Earthling]

118. All humans have contradictions...

Evolutionary psychology shows that cooperation, sharing and caring is stronger in an individual's in-group (family, friends, etc.) and diminishes as the circle expands outward. Some would construe that as hypocrisy but it has more to do with how our brains developed through millions of years of evolution.

I did not mock the OP and I don't criticize anyone for wanting the essentials and finer things of life. My criticism is the OP's polarized view of the world by tallying all the benefits of being rich vs. all the disadvantages of being poor and then ignoring the forces that shaped and processes that preceded those conditions. I have a 55 yr old sister in-law who is about to become homeless because she made very poor decisions and became addicted to crack. It had nothing to do with the rich or her being poor. She had a good job that she lost because she failed a mandatory drug test and then proceeded to empty her 88 yr old father's (who has borderline Alzheimer's/dementia) bank and investment accounts. I know rich people who grew up in lower middle class families who never did drugs, finished high school, went to college and worked their ass off to earn what they got.

Instead of comparing what the rich have vs. what the poor do not have it would make more sense to look at the situations, decisions and actions that led them to their respective stations in life. Both rich, poor and everyone in-between want the same essentials, luxuries and conveniences. Some people have the capacity and are willing to make sacrifices to achieve goals and some do not have the same ability or choose to make short sighted, self-defeating decisions. People are not equal... that is a scientific fact. Growing up, no matter how much I trained, worked out and played football I was never going to be successful enough to play H.S. football let alone college or the NFL. I just did not have the athletic ability. The same holds true for personality, intelligence, artistic ability, work habits etc. which are innately influenced by genetics.

I believe one of the most non-productive mental exercises is to compare oneself with others. There is always going to be someone who is more intelligent, more attractive, funnier, better educated, has a better job and more money etc. and vice versa. This type of score keeping is egotistic.... it perceives reality superficially and ignores external forces which we have no control over.

[Laluchacontinua]

121. The presence of permanent poverty in the developed world has nothing to do with

people using cocaine, nor does the use of cocaine necessarily lead to poverty (witness the vast contingent of stockbrokers, rock stars, sportsmen etc. who indulge & remain rich).

The fact that you weren't able to become a pro football player should not doom you to poverty, or to 12-hour days loading coal, or some other terrible fate.

Neither should ANYONE'S inability to become a "star" in any field of endeavor. Even outright mental retardation should not doom anyone to such a fate.

There is a permanent underclass because the system requires it. Period.

For every person who made "bad choices" I can point out a rich person who also made "bad choices" & is still rich, and a poor person who made good ones & nevertheless remained poor. Our personal choices are not, contrary to what the PTB would have us believe, the ultimate cause of our life path.

[True Earthling]

122. If you are poor and doing cocaine you almost guaranteed to stay poor

The rich who do cocaine usually started after they became rich.

Humans evolved from adaptations to many different environments undergoing constant change which led to variation and a diversity of skills and knowledge. As social beings, human evolution and survival depended not only on adaptations based on individual self interest but adaptations for cooperation within a group as well. Like biologic evolution, economic growth is dependent on a dynamic process of adaptation.

An economic system that guarantees equal outcomes does not rely on adaptation. A planned, pre-determined outcome makes as much sense as planning creativity, discovery and know how. The long term co-ordination of an economy cannot be achieved by planners who 'pull levers and press buttons' in a vain attempt to control the future.

There is a permanent underclass not because the "system requires it", but because in our adaptive economy, unfavorable skills and knowledge are constantly being replace by more favorable skills and new knowledge. Those with few skills and knowledge or skills and knowledge that become obsolete, become the underclass. Yes - the underclass is permanent but not the people who constitute it. In our free society it's possible to escape through the acquisition of new skills and knowledge that are in demand by growing economic trends. Although the overall economy is stagnant there are growth areas where skilled workers are needed i.e. health care, engineering and communications technology.

[Mimosa]

93. Kicking a literary masterpiece. Read this with an open mind and heart. n/t

The rich can escape places, situations, experience what others can only dream about.

I appreciate what Underground Panther wrote from his or her heart and soul. This essay would have never been written or felt during the 1950s or the 1990s. We live during an era when health care, especially mental health care, is out of reach. And prisons are overfull. We are living in 'techno feudalism'.These feelings are manifesting because of a cruel war upon the have nots which is turning them into the never will haves.

Excerpt from OP. Think about it.

I hate the rich because they never feel the faceless cruelty of poverty,and they are so removed from the consequences of their lifestyles and greed they can see people like you and I as cattle,as disposable,as inferiors.. and they can deem the homeless as lazy .The rich can pretend the homeless want to be homeless,and that they deserve to suffer,for the rich won't suffer one bit,they will sleep at night regardless of how the 99% lives. The rich sleep in the best of beds in the softest of linens,security watching over them like surrogate parents.

The rich,they never have to do without anything or do anything they don't want to do once they are adults,.They have soft perfect hands because the rich have staff to cook the food,wash the dishes.They won't fuck up the budget because they have top notch professionals to manage the paperwork,manage their fucking companies for them,workers to make or do the jobs,as they see the money pour in like never ending manna from heaven. The rich never even have to manage the hassles in maintaining their lives. No budget to speak of,health care,and all the other really insane time occupying BULLSHIT that the 95% of us deal with day in day out (Like repeating over and over your name/dress/date of birth etc. to a fucking machine,or going up a phone tree trying to put you off,to get a number to call to go up ANOTHER damn phone tree until you find the person that can really fix your reason you called.They don't have to worry about forgetting to go wait in line for 3 hours at the DMV to get a little fucking sticker,with 2011,12,13..on it to put on a corner of a license plate to avoid being charged 70 or 80 bucks,or waiting in a ten mile line at a store.They hire people for pennies to do those unsavory tasks.And should that peasant forget to do that task,they can have fun firing them,and that 80 buck fee won't even be noticed.An 80 buck fee over a stupid sticker for many of us might mean no food next week.

I hate the rich because THEY get their organic pure healthy meals DELIVERED to their kitchens where staff cooks it up into beautiful culinary delights.A dinner of mac'n'cheese and tuna mixed in it isn't a culinary delight.It's survival.
A dinner out for the rich can cost 1,000 bucks a shot,a dinner out for me is panera or chinese once a while.

I hate the rich because they'll never experience trying to stay dry in a storm at a bus stop with no shelter hoping the lightening does not hit YOU today.The rich think public transportation is a waste of money,because to the rich it IS. They never need to take it,their drivers are always on call..or they could just take the new benz for a ride.
They'll never have to do the laundry,mow the most stupid thing on earth, the lawn. They'll NEVER be forced to tolerate being in our presence very long,but somehow despite their callous and cruelty aimed at us they get people like us to fawn over them to,cover their ass,and they never ever are called out for being the wastes of skin they really ARE.They never go to REAL jail or have to admit their child is a fucking bully.Why? Why do the rich deserve such velvet glove treatment from the 99% Is it because they have hired other people to make your life more miserable than they've already made it?Why do you never tell them,fuck you I'm not paying you one more dime..because you are aware the pigs will come with guns and take you away? fear losing necessities of life like heat,food medicine to mitigate the damage of pollution on your body,or stress of living in the empire built of exploitation and abuse only they the 1% ever truly enjoy, because it is designed to make you do what the rich don't want to do?

Their houses are beautiful refuges, places they want to live in,and they give the rich a sense of security we wish we could have too. Because they are rich their housing security will never be threatened by a bully landlord, taken away due to taxes they can't pay, or foreclosed by a fucking BANK,unless they want to dispose of it.They'll never have to live next to a abandoned property with boarded up windows and half dead crackheads inside screaming,and guns a blazing all night,or hear some desperate couple that were once so in love tear each other's hearts apart over debt unable to ask what are we gonna do? So terrorized and frustrated by the demands of those with too much money and control operating through a faceless thief called a bank.. The rich,their places to live are THEIRS they will never be evicted.The rich people's houses, all of them,are NEVER left un-repaired from lack of money to fix them. But in poor neighborhoods there is no money and no one that fixes it.The rich can have whatever pets they want,who's gonna tell them they can't have a cat in their own home? But the rich can demand in that special faceless and cold way a desperately lonely and heartbroken person they can't have a cat.No cat for you,poor, to love and purr against your touch starved skin,it's in a lease,break it and you are not only left without a sweet furry face that loves you,you are now without the cat,you are homeless,and still desperately lonely & heartbroken.

And if the rich feel a teeny bit stressed they can call a chauffeur and go to a spa and get massages and have a wonderful meal,go home and cry to their ever attentive staff or go do yoga with a private physical therapist, or go to a PRIVATE shrink who does not have to report,as in fork over everything you said in your "private"therapy sessions to the insurance companies or the state.

I hate the rich because the rich will NEVER be treated like I have been,despite stress bad enough to destroy me.I was depressed threatening nothing,not even speaking loud,I answered the questions,But despite EMT's saying I was ok,and my own counselor, the pigs handcuffed,frogmarched me out of my house and forced me into the back of a squad car with lights and all.I was laying down in the back seat due to a broken knee,the hand cuffs were digging into my the wrists,and I despite being called ok by my counselor and the EMT's I was delivered to a ER scared wondering if I was gonna be sent away.I went though this Because the rich people, are skeered by people who are poor or suffering,and because they encourage reporters to spread this bigoted shit about mental illness and PTSD through the news.Where the 'middle class' hears it over and over gets spooked and I get to be assumed to be DAAAAaangerous,for being so damn sad inside. WTF!? Imagine if a senator's adult son,or a koch brother's niece was treated that way,I bet heads would roll and backs will bend into pretzels to appease such barbarity..The story of that poor man might run on faux news for a week.And all those letters and prayers pouring in from the stupid republican sheep to soothe his tiny troubled heart.

All this happened because because a program that is part of the mental health services for this county has to obey selfish stupid corrupt ass-wipes,in congress falling over themselves to obey wishes of those who are stinking RICH,commanding they cut costs,to enrich themselves,so since congress doesn't want their asses pinched they pass it to the states,The state not wanting to stop sucking the ass of BUsiNESS,and blowing money on highways,instead leave it to the counties to cut the social safety net.The counties upper crusties don't want to feel a pinch so they cut the poor, the rich think we are just cattle and we can't do anything to stop them.So the social safety net is cut more and more so the rich NEVER have to face the fact the greedy create the needy,So the county has to give money to"job creators" to appease the middle class. So the county finds it cost effective cutting funds available to MY county and those cuts made mental health caseworkers working for the county/state take on client loads so huge, they have no time to go visit clients in crisis and help clients in crisis they are hired to help out of a crisis.

[Laluchacontinua]

102. "Techno-feudalism". Good phrase. But what's coming seems worse than

feudalism in some ways. Serfs got a hovel, a plot of land on which to raise some food or chickens, their own tools & a share in the harvest in return for harvesting for the lord & serving under him in any wars that came along. IOW, the lord had obligations to the serf & the serf had obligations to the lord.

Under our arrangement, the lords of the universe have NO obligations to us whatsoever.

[A HERETIC I AM]

106. LOL @ "Literary masterpiece".

Seems to me the OP thinks EVERY rich person lives like Randolph and Mortimer Duke.


Bollocks.

[Mimosa]

119. Not joking about the literary value.

I was impressed by the gut-wrenching emotional sincerity, eloquence, and cadence of the OP. The words came right from the heart.

BTW, D.U. members may have differing concepts of how the wealthiest among us live. But Underground Panther's post did not exaggerate how the 1% live. They have personal assistants, servants, personal chefs. They can go wherever they want, do whatever they want, buy whatever they want without a second thought. Their wealth enables them to realize their potentials, live their dreams.

Envy is supposedly a vice. Well, so is drinking or eating too much. Or being lazy. Or to give way to anger. *shrug* The rich tend to be gerredy and acquisitive. Some will foment wars to get what they desire.The American rich are not alone in that. Get it?


When a nation is pursuing policies imposing austerity upon the majority, those who have nothing left to sacrifice I'm happy to see people telling the truth and getting angry.

Underground Panther's essay emerged from pain. There is well-described truth -from his or her heart in the words. Read it again without your political 'readers' on.

[Raine]

105. How far does this extend yeah sure the 1% but how about the top 2%

or 3% or 4% maybe down to the top 10% or just anyone that has more you have so you consider than richER. I see where you're coming from and see WHY but it seems more beneficial to name them like the Kochs and the huge corporations that control instead of a blanket hate of all. Yes many of the rich can control what they do in their own lives (to a bigger extent than the average) but still don't have or want to control the world like the Kochs do.

[Rex]

108. Why I ate the rich.

Burp!

[MrSlayer]

109. Let's boil it down. Wealth is freedom.

Real freedom. All else is basically indentured servitude in a capitalistic society. It's why we keep chasing the lottery carrot and all that.

[yoyossarian]

113. What about people NAMED Rich or Richard? Do you hate THEM too? HUH? DO YOU?

Well, see here!--I happen to have a very good friend named Richard, and he is really quite nice, he's always polite and well-groomed and--YAAARGHH!

Sorry. That was silly, and we simply won't have that sort of thing here!



Right! Carry on!

:hi:

[Odin2005]

117. Behind every great fortune is a great crime.

[Mimosa]

120. Kicking.

This part makes me weep:

I hate the rich because they'll never experience trying to stay dry in a storm at a bus stop with no shelter hoping the lightening does not hit YOU today.The rich think public transportation is a waste of money,because to the rich it IS. They never need to take it,their drivers are always on call..or they could just take the new benz for a ride.
They'll never have to do the laundry,mow the most stupid thing on earth, the lawn. They'll NEVER be forced to tolerate being in our presence very long,but somehow despite their callous and cruelty aimed at us they get people like us to fawn over them to,cover their ass,and they never ever are called out for being the wastes of skin they really ARE.They never go to REAL jail or have to admit their child is a fucking bully.Why? Why do the rich deserve such velvet glove treatment from the 99% Is it because they have hired other people to make your life more miserable than they've already made it?Why do you never tell them,fuck you I'm not paying you one more dime..because you are aware the pigs will come with guns and take you away? fear losing necessities of life like heat,food medicine to mitigate the damage of pollution on your body,or stress of living in the empire built of exploitation and abuse only they the 1% ever truly enjoy, because it is designed to make you do what the rich don't want to do?

Their houses are beautiful refuges, places they want to live in,and they give the rich a sense of security we wish we could have too. Because they are rich their housing security will never be threatened by a bully landlord, taken away due to taxes they can't pay, or foreclosed by a fucking BANK,unless they want to dispose of it.They'll never have to live next to a abandoned property with boarded up windows and half dead crackheads inside screaming,and guns a blazing all night,or hear some desperate couple that were once so in love tear each other's hearts apart over debt unable to ask what are we gonna do? So terrorized and frustrated by the demands of those with too much money and control operating through a faceless thief called a bank.. The rich,their places to live are THEIRS they will never be evicted.The rich people's houses, all of them,are NEVER left un-repaired from lack of money to fix them. But in poor neighborhoods there is no money and no one that fixes it.The rich can have whatever pets they want,who's gonna tell them they can't have a cat in their own home? But the rich can demand in that special faceless and cold way a desperately lonely and heartbroken person they can't have a cat.No cat for you,poor, to love and purr against your touch starved skin,it's in a lease,break it and you are not only left without a sweet furry face that loves you,you are now without the cat,you are homeless,and still desperately lonely & heartbroken.

Underground Panther, I wish I were rich. I would help you and others. I would not be selfish. *hug*

[Major Hogwash]

123. Since we're being honest about it . . .

I know quite a few rich people that weren't the way you described them here in your post. Some of them are "well off", some are "rich", and some are "better off these days".

But, the point I really want to make here today is that this diatribe should have been locked last week because hate is self-destructive!!!

The only one consumed by hate is the person who holds on to it!!