Combat vets are a different critter...

[catnhatnh]

And in the marines there are few clerks and jerks other than the band....

And if you are a marine and do two tours in Sandlandnistan and walk around without a trumpet you have my respect.

If you are then shot in the back of the head at approximately the same range as President Lincoln while engaging peacefully in first amendment guaranteed behavior then the assumption HAS to be that the shooter either is a sympathizer with your proven enemies (Taliban/Al Que ada) or an insane anti-american Nazi.

Which do you suppose the cop was.

Then, the video shows he threw a grenade into those attempting to render first aid-something John Wilkes Booth wouldn't have dreamed of. Lacking insignia, those people were still obviously attempting to render first aid and as such the second assault may have violated the Geneva Conventions.

The guy who pledged to "protect and serve" instead decided to critically wound and harass his betters. He needs to be jailed and both he and municipality sued.

[MADem]

1. Back of the head? I thought it was the side of the head.

And as close as Lincoln? Booth was right behind him. Was it actually that close?

[catnhatnh]

2. Umm...

estimates are 5-10 feet. The videos show him with his back toward the shooter. The weapon used has a barrel about 20" long. That's point blank in terms of ballistics...

[MADem]

8. I'm just trying to find out the truth. I read that he was hit in the side-not back- of the head.

Where you are hit can impact what sort of brain injuries accrue.

This report says that his mother said that the left side of his skull was fractured: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/iraq-vet-oakland-police-tear-gas_n_1033159.html


This article says he was hit "in the face:" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054144/Occupy-Oakland-Police-officer-fired-gas-canister-protesters-help


This one says says he was hit in or close to his face:


"He was standing perfectly still, provoking no one," said Raleigh Latham, an Oakland filmmaker shooting footage of the confrontation between police and hundreds of protesters at 14th Street and Broadway. "If something didn't hit him directly in the face, then it went off close to his head and knocked him down."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/27/BAD61LN3LM.DTL#ixzz1c8VcqKIding-Scott-Olsen.html


I am not necessarily disputing your assertions, but they are new information and very different from the stuff I have read up to now. This is the first I have heard that he had his back turned.

I know he was fairly close to the police, but I didn't realize that he was as close as five to ten feet from them, as you are saying.

If you have a link that would be helpful.

[csziggy]

17. Watch from about 3:00 on

Edited because I forgot the link: http://youtu.be/nM3GgZTPYiA

You can see Scott Olsen on the ground - if you go back and forth with the video, you can actually see when he's hit and when he falls. The end of the video shows the two items thrown (shot?) from the line of police into the crowd that runs to help Scott.

[MADem]

18. Very clear footage--he was close to the fencing. NT

[Yon_Yonson]

3. Ah the Marine Grunt ‘tip of the spear argument’ I only know it to well

Light em up if you have em!

The truth of the matter is that the Marine Corps has an array of non-combat rolls that are crucial to support the combat GRUNT. In fact I would venture to say that if the Corps did not have its ‘clerks and jerks’ as you call them the combat roll could not be accomplished. So let’s get rid of the ‘clerks and jerks’ and stop war all together.

That is all

[catnhatnh]

5. Except the marines ALWAYS had the least non-combat roles...

...and in our modern "civilian contractor" era logistics folk are seldom in uniform. Scott seems the real deal to me. I was a "clerks and jerks" during Vietnam tuning choppers stateside and while it needed to be done I recognized that I was skating.

[Yon_Yonson]

19. No matter what your MOS in the Corps ...

You are first and foremost trained as rifleman and that supersedes whatever your Military Occupation Specialty (MOS) be! You don’t qualify on the rifle range you don’t become a Marine.

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. And huge fines for all those standing there watching someone who obviously needs help.

And standing there....and standing....instead of PROTECTING AND SERVING.

"There is something terribly wrong with this country." -V

[RC]

6. WE need a full length of your graphic.

[Bozita]

9. Terrific! ... I wanna steal it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. I wish I could get on board with this post, but as a vet, I can't.

"few clerks and jerks other than the band..."

I would bet my last dollar that "Regular Marines" don't consider members of the Marines who are clerks OR members of the Marine Band "jerks". Marines are Marines. Ask one. Marines are Marines, and once a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine. I can't think of a single organization in the entire world that I have more respect for. This former Squid loves him some Grunts.

"Sandlandnistan"? Really? REALLY? Being a vet myself, I'd have to say that I'd give my utmost respect to ANYONE who wore the uniform in this place you call "Sandlandnistan" no matter what they did there, whether it be play a fucking trumpet to pump up the troops or carry an M-16 to kill the enemy or cook or push paper and ensure everyone gets paid.

From the beginning of your third paragraph to the end you engage in some pretty serious hyperbole.

"decided to critically would and harrass his betters". DECIDED to?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Indeed, all Marines are rifleman first, whatever else second

Arguably any Marine is not in a direct combat position is more combat capable that his Army, Navy, of Air Force equivalent.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. Direct combat is a matter of perspective. The A-6s I worked on carried more lbs of bombs than

anything other than the B-52.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. I was refering to infantry style combat as an rifleman

[MADem]

11. I have to agree with you. The divisiveness of the terms is off-putting to me.

It doesn't match up with my recollections either. Things may have changed in recent years, but I would hope not that much.

[Fumesucker]

20. Heh, I recall a less charitable term for non grunts..

REMF...

[catnhatnh]

12. And I like you...

yep...if you point and fire you decided on a target. The lobbed grenade was a bit over the top. I DO respect all vets but recognize getting shot at does separate you from the herd.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. You are 100% right on that.

Every fighting organization though has to have teeth, and a tail.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. As to the Geneva convention...

The ONLY reason it does not apply...YET is that this qualifies as an internal civil disturbance.

Let's hope it does not rise to the point where it truly does.

Though there is applicable state legislation fashioned on it that does apply.

And I will admit to being a little loco in the cabeza when I crawled into a hail of bullets, young and dumb, I admit. I actually had markings on me and shit. Which brings me to the next point, if that pesky convention starts to truly apply, you will see anbulances grow red crosses like magic, and from experience getting shot at happens. It just does, take my word on this.

There are sections of the convention that do apply right now though. Even though we are not at a state of war. And as things degrade more sections will start to apply.

Oy...I hope pesky thinks like going through lines, checking for health and welfare of civies and prisoners doesn't. If we get to that point, well kimchee meet fan.

[pinboy3niner]

21. I think you meant well, but this was very awkwardly stated

We don't need to disparage "clerks and jerks" to recognize combat service.

I served as an Infantry platoon leader in Vietnam, while my little brother served as a personnel clerk at our division HQ. I was awarded a Purple Heart, and he wasn't. But I would never consider myself his "better."

It took 10 or 11 support troops to keep the combat troops going in our war. The service of support troops shouldn't be minimized. Imagine telling a grunt that his chow, or his ammo, or his mail from home, wasn't coming because somebody in the rear screwed up. That didn't happen because those "non-combat" troops did their jobs--and your respect should extend to them, as well.

When my little brother passed away last year, the Army sent an Honor Guard to his funeral--including an OEF/OIF combat vet from our unit (the 101st Airborne Division). It was a fitting tribute.