1500 year old Giant sequoia falls, raising questions about what to do next

[Liberal_in_LA]

Giant sequoia falls, raising questions about what to do next

The Forest Service must decide what to do with the ancient tree, which is blocking a path. Build over it? Dig under? Or do nothing at all?

When you're dealing with a 1,500-year-old sequoia in a national monument, the questions aren't just logistical. They're environmental, emotive and potentially legal.

[Lars39]

1. If it's a wheelchair accessible path, tunnel thru it and let it stay there.

[Motown_Johnny]

40. Tunnel through or cut out that section, exposing all the rings

Then they can do the thing where they put little push pins in spots with notes that say "1492, Columbus Discovers America". You know, crap like that.


Kids love it.


But I agree the path should still be usable and the majority of the tree should be left where it fell.

[Posteritatis]

60. I love that idea. (nt)

[TheWraith]

68. Exactly my thought as well. It's an amazing and unique opportunity.nt

[ChandlerJr]

2. I don't know the answer to your question

but I wonder if it made a sound.

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. lol. I bet it made a big sound

[madinmaryland]

22. If no-one was there to hear it would there have been a sound??

Though I suppose there could have been a bear in the woods taking a ***t who might have heard it!

[petronius]

12. There's video of it falling - so since people were there it was required

to make noise... :)

[Liberal_in_LA]

13. really?

[petronius]

16. Apparently. I can't get it to play, but here's the link the LA Times article led to:

http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/article/20111004/NEWS01/110040305/Sequoias-fall-unexplained

[Liberal_in_LA]

20. it played for me. thanks

[Motown_Johnny]

77. I suppose a serious answer to that would not be appropriate

good thing I never worry about being appropriate



If a tree falls in the woods and there is nobody there to hear it, it would still produce vibrations which would be interpreted as sound if there were ears within range of those vibrations. The question itself is based entirely on an inaccurate definition of the word "sound".

It also implies that only humans count. It is my opinion that animals and insects which can detect sound also count, therefore it is very unlikely that this situation ever occurs and the question is therefore meaningless on two levels.



If you like that you should see my stuff on "which came first, the chicken or the egg?".

[Joe the Revelator]

4. Maybe I'm missing something....why can't you remove it?

It's dead.

[Xithras]

72. Because it's a protected forest.

By law, that stretch of forest is supposed to be left in it's natural form as much as possible. The forest service would be sued if it made any alterations that can't be directly justified as neccesary for the health and safety of the visitors. You can't even pick up firewood off the floor of these woods, because doing so alters the natural forest cycle. Even if it does decide that the alterations are required, they'll probably be sued anyway, just to ensure that they're dotting all the I's.

The falling of the tree is part of the forests natural regeneration cycle. "Leaving the forest alone" requires that the tree be left in place so that it can rot and sustain the next generation of trees.

I'd personally prefer to see a tunnel through the tree, but it's more likely that the trail will just be rerouted.

[lob1]

5. It seems like the easiest and cheapest thing to do is just

go around it.

[kestrel91316]

6. Cut through it where it impinges on the path. Leave the rest where it fell.

[Liberal_in_LA]

8. good idea. That would allow folks to see the tree's rings.

[lunatica]

17. that's a great point

The rings could be counted to calculate how old the tree is and they could include a sign showing the things that happened in history during the life of that tree. It would be a great tourist stop along the trail.

[Odin2005]

70. You win the thread! Great idea!

[begin_within]

74. Like this...

[JVS]

23. Yup. Make an exhibition with the rings.

[kiranon]

21. Agree and have seen this done before. n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

31. Absolutely

That is what we do for other trees that cover paths in the woods. It would be fascinating to walk past the 1500 year old cross section. The rest of the tree will slowly biodegrade and will give nourishment to living organisms on the forest floor.

[lynne]

32. Great idea. Take the wood that is removed -

- and use it to produce some type of memento to sell, raising funds to further sustain the area in the future. A historic log building in my area had to make improvements and they sold small pieces of the original logs that had to be replaced as a fundraiser. I believe it was very successful.

[MH1]

35. Yep, agree

also with some of the other suggestions to sell pieces as mementos and to make an exhibit.

[hunter]

38. That's my vote, and that's usually what they do.

Decomposing trees are a vital part of these forest ecosystems.

I hope the trees fell by natural causes rather than human activity.

[trackfan]

47. Yep. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

81. Exactly.

There are plenty of examples of that solution at state redwood parks.

[TwilightGardener]

7. Good thing some unlucky hiker didn't get flattened under that.

[Liberal_in_LA]

10. yep!!

[lunatica]

18. It probably made a huge amount of noise so any hiker would have heard it

Once I saw a tree fall and it makes a lot of very loud cracking and snapping noise.

[Iggo]

43. ...as far as we know, anyway.

:rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

44. You might see hiking boots sticking out from underneath...or not..

It's a pretty big tree.

[bvar22]

64. ...a Great Halloween Prank.

...or stick some of these under the tree!

[pa28]

9. Cut a cross section through the tree to make the path accessible.

1500 giant sequoia tree rings and a chance to get a close up look at the scale of the tree sounds like a trail highlight. I'd love to see that.

[Liberal_in_LA]

11. me too!

[Beaverhausen]

15. they did that in the John Muir Woods above SF

great idea!

[Orrex]

14. Privatize it!

Oh--and, uh, give the wealthy a tax cut while we're at it.

[Supply Side Jesus]

41. lol

:rofl:

[Canuckistanian]

19. I think it would make a great teaching experience

It's a tree that's just died. Tunnel a hole through it and explain the natural process of death and decay in the forest.

[TheMadMonk]

24. Develop it. Looks too small ('bout 2-2.2m dia.) for a tunnel.

So take a slice through it for the path. Polish the faces, seal them. Annotate every ring with a year number on the left. On the right significant events with an emphasis on any natural history.

Harvest the root boll for burl. Harvest most of the top for timber. Leave perhaps 20m of trunk for the tourists to clamber over.

Use the lumber to make kitchy touristy thingamabobs. Sell the burl for megabucks to an interior decorator for a Saudi prince. Let him turn it into a wantonly wasteful monobloc dining suite.

Properly managed a sequoia (mountain ash, bristlecone pine, etc.) forest could just about pay its own way from deadfalls alone. The problem is that unlike estate law in England which recognises a need for long term preservation, US law, demands that any profit must be maximised. A National Park cannot be a self-supporting entity, selling off a tree here and there to meet operating costs, because once it does the "quest for profit" kicks in and makes a legally compelling case that the sale of ONE tree demands the sale of EVERY tree.

[FarCenter]

25. Saw it into siding; give it to Habitat for Humanity

Like redwood, the wood is highly resistant to decay.

[soupkitchen]

26. From a poem

'Awesome, awesome in death, the tree
A wondrous sprawl of reach and grandeur
A beached whale, a magnificent incongruity
Vigorous, vital, dead.'

[occupyeverywhere]

27. go around it

[melm00se]

28. I say cut it up and

take a bunch of cross sections, leave 2 in situ (either side of the trail) and donate the rest to museums around the world for preservation, what can't be used for that purpose, cut it for lumber and sell it for the benefit of the park.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. +1

Maximize the benefit.

[aikoaiko]

29. If the wood has value as lumber, then contract out to have somene cut it and haul it out.

Use the money to better the park.

[Cid_B]

30. Sell it for lumber...

Big bucks for furniture that came from that...

[slackmaster]

33. Other - Re-route the path around it.

I don't understand why this has to be difficult.

[Gormy Cuss]

83. I wonder how much that would cost vs. slicing out a section where the existing path was.

Rerouting an improved path like that is pretty expensive and cutting a new path through 100+ feet of protected land isn't as easy as bringing in the backhoe. I'd love to see impact report figures on those choices.

The least expensive choice is probably to do nothing.

[Fearless]

34. Remove it carefully... sell the wood... fund a park ranger job.

[ThomWV]

36. Its down, saw it or cut it up for firewood, get some use out of it - no sense in letting it rot.

[onethatcares]

37. what happened to "go around it"?

it's just a detour on lifes journey, a mere 150 to 200 feet out of your way.

they should act like it's always been there.

[Mendocino]

39. Where is this?

I say re-route the trail. Fallen trees are essential for the entire ecosystem. A healthy forest isn't just trees, it is a complex web of soil, microrganisms, insects and other flora and fauna.

[Iggo]

42. When my family vacationed up there way back in time...

...we drove right through a standing sequoia.

And this one ain't even standing.

Cut out the section that's blocking the road and be done with it.

[TwilightGardener]

45. I agree with the suggestions to cut a section through it. I disagree with

removal or chopping it up to sell. It's part of the nature of the area, and should be allowed to remain as such--may also be a haven for woodpeckers, other critters.

[BoWanZi]

46. Its lumber now, cut it up and bring it to a mill to be made into fancy furniture or something

Standing, its a landmark I suppose since it was 1500 years old. Fallen, its nothing more than an eyesore and problem. Make it into lumber and problem solved.

I fail to see the issue here.

Heck, the wood would be probably worth quite a bit since its from a 1500 year old tree and not just some cheap farm raised lumber tree. Make some exclusive furniture or something out of it.

[TwilightGardener]

48. Falling rotting trees are not an "eyesore" in woods and natural areas--they

are supposed to be there, and serve as habitats for lots of creatures. Not everything comes down to making a buck.

[GoCubsGo]

51. Thank you. You beat me to it.

And, it's not just the ones who rely on fallen timber for habitat. A lot of critters and plants rely on woody debris for their food. Not to mention that the ones who break down the wood (termites, beetles, fungi, etc.) are returning organic matter to the topsoil, which allows other vegetation to grow in that spot. Do they not teach this in science class any more, or do some people just refuse to learn it?

[TwilightGardener]

59. None of that matters, when you can make furniture and flooring for rich people.

:sarcasm:

[itsrobert]

56. Good point

There are plenty of other trees that could be used by creatures that are not in a roadway.

[GoCubsGo]

57. It's not in a roadway.

It is across a foot path.

[itsrobert]

62. Well, whatever needs to be done, the Forest department will make a good call

too much debate. If some money can be made to fund the park, etc, GO FOR IT.

[whistler162]

49. Don't know... but did anyone hear it fall?

[Codeine]

52. I agree with the idea of cutting a path through it.

If it's big enough they could even cut an archway and let people duck through it.

[miyazaki]

53. Ca. bunghole bureaucracy will spend half a million to form a study

panel on what to do.

[GoCubsGo]

55. It's not up to them.

The tree is in national forest. The U.S. Forest Service will make the decision.

[itsrobert]

54. Mill it and make me some nice hardwood flooring.

n/t

[OnlinePoker]

58. Forests are reborn on the corpses of the fallen.

Cut a path through and allow the remainder to decay naturally, returning it's nutrients to the soil and giving home and sustenance to the critters that need it to survive.

[Posteritatis]

61. That would've been a pretty spectacular thing to witness. (nt)

[stevedeshazer]

63. Build a footbridge over it.

Leave it alone. This is the forest way.

[Arugula Latte]

65. Two words: Extreme Catapult!

:woohoo:

[hunter]

69. Or explosives!

Remember the Oregon Highway Division decided it would be a good idea to explode a dead whale?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_whale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkZottYDpEE

[Arugula Latte]

76. Oh, yeah... Blubber rain, blubber rain...

I think that was a Prince song. :)

[Modern_Matthew]

66. Airdrop it into Koch's lawn. nt

[LWolf]

67. Leave it alone.

Re-route the trail, or don't, but leave the tree alone.

[begin_within]

71. Re-route the trail around it.

[ErikJ]

73. agreed

[Saving Hawaii]

75. Cut the path through it.

You can make a great display of the tree rings and you'll still have a nice wheelchair-accessible path for visitors to enjoy.

[piratefish08]

78. did it make a sound?

[slackmaster]

79. Yes, it did make a sound. There were witnesses. A German tourist got a crude video of it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fallen-sequoia-20111029,0,6767474.story

[AngryAmish]

80. Cut it up, make a Hooter's.

[DainBramaged]

82. Anyone hear it fall?