Was autistic man really a Marine? Military court to decide

[proud2BlibKansan]

Los Angeles native Joshua D. Fry had been diagnosed as autistic and was living in a group home for people with mental disabilities when a Marine Corps recruiter signed him up for service.

Fry's enlistment three years ago helped the recruiter meet his quota. It turned out far worse for Fry, who ended up being court-martialed on child pornography and other charges. Now his fate is posing a mind-boggling question for military judges:

Was Fry never really in the Marine Corps in the first place?

Citing his autism and a reported IQ of 70, Fry's attorneys say he lacked the mental capacity to enter into an enlistment contract. If they're right, it means that Fry wasn't a Marine even while attending boot camp and infantry school. He always was a civilian, immune to military prosecution.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/30/3238204/was-autistic-man-really-a-marine.html#ixzz1cHXaEtC7

[Pab Sungenis]

1. The recruiter who signed him up is the one who should be in prison

not this guy.

[dkf]

3. Child porn is still child porn.

[uppityperson]

6. They should both be imprisoned for different reasons.

[1monster]

8. There is no excuse for child porn, I agree. It is a dispicable crime that scars

children so used for the rest of their lives.

But autistic people and espcially those with low IQs are often unable to understand or reason out the differences between right and worng. They may understand that hurting another person is wrong and not do it, but fail to understand that sexual acting out with children hurts those children. Having finally managed to learn that, making the connection that looking at photos of children who have been placed in sexual positions and actions is also wrong is not likely. Making conncetions isn't something an autistic person can do.

I have no understanding and little mercy on those who have normal intelligence, who are able to understand right from wrong, societal norms. But for those who are as impaired as the young man in this story, there is next to no help and support, care, or understanding. They will always be children in this world. They are stangers in a strange land with no willingness to help them understand.

I'm willing to bet that, on the online comments sections of the newspapers and blogs that carried this story, there were torture and death threats toward this young man and he really doesn't understand the anger directed at him -- if indeed he even perceives it.

[dkf]

9. Isn't that worse though if a person can't reason properly and is addicted to child porn?

Seems like a recipe for disaster.

[1monster]

13. It is. But the problem is worse than that. I don't have any statistics, but many of those

austistic kids were sexually abused as young children too. That really messes up the situation especially if the children did not suffer physical pain as a result. It really causes problems.

However, the answer is not to put them in prison. They will be even further screwed up by by the amoral sociopaths who will interact with them and use them while in prison. They need to be in group homes where some can be contributing members of society, with 24 hour supervision and very limited or no access to the Internet. I have never tried to find out myself, but I'm told that it is extremely easy to find child pornography on the Internet.

The FBI and other law enforcement should work much harder on eliminating the source of those Internet sites (and arresting the producers and distributors) than they do. They could always pull the manpower from by retraining DEA agents who currently go after state regulated medical marijuana farmers...

[Recursion]

15. I think Anonymous is doing a better job...

I'm not a big fan of vigilanteism, but the hackers out there seem to have made a habit of taking down child porn servers, and if the FBI were to turn a blind eye to those hacks I doubt anybody would be very upset.

[jwirr]

18. Yes, and IF he had been left in the group home he should have

been supervised properly and it would not have happened. That is the job of group home workers. When they put him in the military he had no one to supervise him. They are to blame.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Agreed

[Arkansas Granny]

2. With an IQ of 70, how did he even pass the ASVAB test? I would have thought

that the test would have indicated a problem with his enlistment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I had that same thought

But I don't know enough about those tests.

[Recursion]

16. Imagine an SAT with a very reduced verbal section and an added mechanical section

So, basic algebra, qualitative geometry, and a mechanical section where there are diagrams of machines and the question is "if you push down on lever arm A, what direction does part B move in?" or some such. Another part of the mechanical section is definitely achievement rather than aptitutde: it has a diagram of a part of an engine and asks you what it is.

(Caveat: I took the ASVAB in 1997 and it may have changed since then.)

[Recursion]

7. You can get an ASVAB waiver, though the Corps rarely grants them

This is kind of surprising because the Marines are still the one branch that are making their numbers and have a waiting list. Though that wouldn't necessarily apply to any given recruiter.

[Arkansas Granny]

10. I was not aware of any waiver. I always thought the test was mandatory.

[Cid_B]

11. The test is mandatory... The score is waiverable...

[Arkansas Granny]

12. Ah, I see.

[Recursion]

14. What Cid said, also he may have tested OK

Autistic persons can have low IQs as measured but still be very good at some kinds of standardized tests. The ASVAB's main axes are spatial, mathematical, and mechanical reasoning. There's much less of the SAT verbal-type stuff.

But, like I said, the Corps isn't really in the habit of granting waivers except for exceptionally physically fit people (the Corps has the highest mean and median incoming ASVAB score among recruits -- the stereotype aside, we jarheads really aren't that dumb).

[Arkansas Granny]

19. I know some marines. I never thought they were dumb. Thanks for your service.

[jwirr]

17. Back in the Vietnam War there were persons with developmental

disabilities in the military. And the government knew it. The idea was that if they could follow orders they could be drafted. I was in the ARK at the time and we were fighting this. LBJ did promise it would stop.