Markets crash this AM, watching CNBC is a hoot.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

Between touting certain investments, and panning others (derivatives, Oil, Gold) they are trying to explain the crash (3%, perhaps more) of this morning.

They blame Greece and its president's decision to shit can the debt deal, they blame derivatives (which they described as fun for the past few years, but when their underlying assets begin to fall, "derivatives collapse." - their words)

The bank stocks are falling heavily. Oil has dropped 3.5% just this morning. Sydney suspended all futures trading in grain.

Looks like a day of red.

Anytime that some neocon asshole demands that we privatize Social Security, point at this morning and say nothing. There is no need to speak.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. oil down 4%. Watch for greek PM to resign today.

Seeing a derivatives trader or two see how quickly they can go from 30 stories to the ground wouldn't be a surprise, either. Heh, they may even join Occupy WS as the newly poor.

Corzine, former governor, may be going to jail. Not only did his derivatives company (MF Global) speculate with clients' funds, they illegally commingled personal assets in their gambles. The 8th largest financial company around, they closed their doors today.

And yes, MF DOES stand for mother fucker.

[Tsiyu]

2. 8th largest no shit

Wow.

And yeah, I think we all saw that MF and said, well...........how appropriate can a name be?

[AngryAmish]

3. I'm surprised the MF story is not getting more play today

Corzine first ruined New Jersey and now has run MF into the ground. What an asshole.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. Maybe because it makes OWS complaints seem so true?

"How can we report on capitalism's huge failures, when OWS is telling us that capitalism is failing hugely?"

[tama]

5. It's 4 pm local time

in Greece and I havent heard anything about Papandreou resigning. Of course the elites that fear the voice of the people wish that he would resign and cancel the referendum, but do you?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. The news flash on BBC said something about an

emergency meeting with his top aides this evening.

[tama]

11. Some MP:s of his own party have called for

his resignation, but he still has the majority, at least on paper, and there will be a vote of confidence very shortly. We'll see.

[sabrina 1]

36. Good, he is not the one who should resign.

Maybe he realized that enslaving his people for decades just to bail out the criminals once again, wasn't worth it since the crash is going to happen no matter how long they scramble to try to put it off.

Good for him, I imagine he is a lot more popular in Greece today than the IMF of Merkel or Sarkozy or Geithner, Bernanke or the rest of those who thought they were so clever.

Democracy!! Horrors, he choose to include the people who will be the most adversely affected by these geniuses who crashed the world and are still trying to save their trillions for themselves at the expense of ordinary people everywhere.

THIS is why we keep hearing talk of OUR Social programs being trouble, so they can raid the public funds here having run out everywhere else they've been

This is the first sign of hope I've seen that maybe the whole house of cards is about to collapes and the sooner the better. Because it's going to happen anyhow, according to most economists around he globe.

[tama]

38. After a long talk

(and sudden and curious personnel changes in the military top brass!) cabinet agrees with PM about referendum. Vote of confidence on Friday, which he may well survive.

[sabrina 1]

44. Read about the 'changes' in the Military's top brass.

Maybe to avoid a military coup, some people are saying?

I think that think that there is a split among the Rulers of the World, the Global Capitalists, with some realizing the consequences of too much greed and too much pressure on ordinary people. While the others see no reason to worry about the 'little people'.

He didn't make this decision alone, but it's interesting who he did NOT discuss it with.

[tama]

46. some people are saying?

That's what I've been saying, maybe to avoid a military coup.

[sabrina 1]

47. Or to cause one?

It's not clear, as far I know so far, who ordered the changes.

[Frustratedlady]

13. Is this the same Corzine who raised so much money for Obama?

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-05/wall_street/29959578_1_president-obama-tim-geithner-corzine

[Angry Dragon]

28. yes

[Frustratedlady]

29. Oh, great! Just what we need! EOM

[sabrina 1]

30. Not sure why the Greek PM should resign. Looks like he finally

told the New World Order crowd to go to hell, the IMF, the World Bank et al. Should have done it long ago. Maybe he finally heard his people's voices over the Globalists. Let's hope the same thing happens across Europe and they get their sovereignty back and some new non-Globalist funded leaders.

This is the result of the crimes for which no one has yet been held accountable. The suffering of the people from South America, to Asia, to Africa to Europe and finally to the US will probably, has in many cases, be the worst in history.

I haven't read the news yet, but from what I understand the Greek PM finally decided that there are worse things than defaulting, like submitting to the demands of the economic invaders and reducing your people to slavery for the foreseeable future. The New World Order is crumbling from its own greed.

Looks like the economists were right and all that was happening was to put off the inevitable, final 2nd Crash.

Oh yes, and just like the OWS movement has flushed out the fascists in our government, Papandreou's decision to let the people vote on the latest 'make the people for our gambling debts' IMF influenced attempt to save the bankers, has flushed out the anti-Sovereignty gang of 'World Leaders'. Imagine, letting the people have a say, finally. I think he just may have saved his political career in Greece although he should stay away from small planes.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. Every time the market falls the dollar goes up

in value against other currencies.


Anyone have a clue on that?

It helps my situation with the dollar.

[banned from Kos]

9. safe haven = US dollar

btw, Dodd-Frank is looking good. limit prop trading to companies like MF with no FDIC insured deposits.

no rescue for MF, that is for sure

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. Well it helped my situation

at the right time of the month.

[PoliticAverse]

42. MF Global has (some) SIPC insured deposits. n/t

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-01/mf-global-customers-call-sipc-seeking-money-after-broker-dealer-bankruptcy.html

[BeyondGeography]

8. Grease is the word

On all sides of this disaster.

[FarCenter]

12. Wonder whether announcements like this are a deliberate manipulation

Banks and other financial players who knew that Papandreou was going to make this announcement could have made a bundle of money.

[tama]

14. There was piece of news

few weeks ago that Papandreou was considering a referendum - but that some of his cabinet opposed. Before this announcement he didn't inform his cabinet, revealed by minister of finance who said he didn't know anything.

[FarCenter]

16. His cabinet and finance minister wouldn't have to know

In fact, it would probably be hard to keep security that way.

The real question is whether bankers and hedge fund operators in Frankfurt/Paris versus London/New York were privy to inside information.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. I think 'crash' is a bit of hyperbole. This is the new normal in

intra-day market volatility, i.e., changes of between 1-5%. A 'crash' as I understand and use the term refers to a one-day decline of > 10%. Don't have CNBC and sounds like I'm not missing much from the Finance Pimps.

Thanks for the thread though. I'm K&R'ing for the excellent discussion you've engendered.

On edit: Speaking of 'hilarious,' check out this one-sentence jaw-dropper from today's New York Times:

"Regulators are examining whether MF Global diverted some customer funds to support its own trades as the firm teetered on the brink of collapse."

"Diverted" indeed :)

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/regulators-investigating-mf-global/?hp

[rusty fender]

17. LOLOLOL!

Judge: You are accused of stealing tv's from Wal-Mart; how do you plead?

Defendant: Your Honor, with all due respect, I just diverted them to an alternate location.:spank:

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Glad to see someone shares my sense of humor this a.m. :) - n/t

[sabrina 1]

37. Lol! .

:rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

18. even in my limited financial understanding, that be a

C R I M E .

Heh, another Gold! man, sucks clone goes down the tubes.

[coalition_unwilling]

21. When a homeless man in Texas steals a $5 pizza, he gets 15 years

for theft. When a MF (seriously, that was part of the company's name) 'diverts' millions of $s, he gets a slap on the wrist and a vist to Club Fed.

And TPTB wonder why people are FUCKING CAMPING OUT IN PUBLIC SPACES ALL OVER THIS FUCKING COUNTRY AND WORLD????????

[tama]

25. Or

the "illuminati" are "hinting" without mincing the message - Bernie Made-Off, Jersey MotherFucker Inc, etc., that these the rulers you stupid infantile people choose to follow and tolerate instead of accepting responsibility, so wake the fucking up ASAP!!!

[WilliamPitt]

19. I know a lot of people whose retirement funds are taking a beating this morning.

Not hooting.

[WinkyDink]

22. Hello! Yes, really not laughing here.

[Codeine]

23. My 401k is being phased out by my company at the end of the year.

To hear folks cheering about it getting smaller by the day does not make me sympathize with their position on anything.

[girl gone mad]

40. You aren't required to invest in equities.

You've made a conscious decision to put your money at risk. Don't expect others to modify their behavior so that you can feel better about your gamble.

[Prometheus Bound]

45. Exactly. No one investing in the stockmarket is automatically entitled to sympathy if things go bad.

Parts of the British media did that last year with BP. Since BP was a big part of almost every retirement plan, they tried to make it seem the by criticizing BP you were talking down the pensions of every pensioner, present and future.

That's bullshit.

[Ichingcarpenter]

24. Mine got trashed in the last fall a few years ago.

I'm not hooting

[ChairmanAgnostic]

26. good point, and I suspect my sarcasm ran amuck

when I expressed that idea.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Yeah

Like my retired friends who need to eat on a pension.

(facepalm)

[tama]

32. Condescending facepalm

does not score you a point, or help to solve our common problems - how to get over the inevitable financial collapse so that we can all keep eating, so that we all have a warm place to sleep, so that we don't have to be afraid of physical violence - not only people on pension, but also those who are already homeless, abandoned and 'illegal', children suffering from malnutrition while half the food is thrown to waste bin. Your response is just rude and not showing good example to other forum members.

My mother raised the same issue last summer when we talked about the financial collapse that is going on, that pension funds are going down the same black hole of collapsing debt balloon. She died suddenly less than a month ago and I'm bit touchy about condescending suggestions that I don't care about our elders. I'm father of two sons and I recently moved close to my old father to be able to help him when he needs help. Of course you could not know that so I'm telling you now.

I don't have all the answers, but in the mood I am now, I take offense from your condescending attempts to suffocate discussing how to take care of each other if and when the financial system collapses, and how to take care of each other also as people who have been already sucked dry and abandoned by the system. We can't heal the symptoms if we don't understand the roots of our problems. But go on and facepalm all you want, if you want to stay blind to the suffering of our fellow human beings and its root causes...

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

34. Condescending my ass

Project much?

[ProfessorGAC]

41. Provide One Shread Of Evidence. . .

. . .of the collapse you fear and then perhaps people will stop facepalming.

You are doom and glooming yourself into an irrational state that has you insulting and wishing ill on your own allies and those who are not, and never have been, a problem.

If you can provide any valid evidence that this collapse is imminent and that we should therefore NOT care about those on fixed incomes who live on a pension, then provide it.

Otherwise, i would think you should be careful you don't fall off that very high horse.
GAC

[tama]

43. It's simple math

why Ponzi schemes collapse when there is no more room for expansion. And the current debt and interest driven financial system is identical to Ponzi scheme. The way money is created, interest can be payed only by creating more debt with more interest on top, so that this global Ponzi scheme needs to keep growing exponentially to avoid collapse. You can look at the charts and confirm that the total debt balloon has been indeed growing exponentially.

Until 2008 the system has been able to expand by replacing collapsing debt balloons with other even more inflated debt balloons, but now the collapse process is already taking down small countries (Greece, Ireland, Portugal) that can no longer to afford further bank bail outs and are forced to accept IMF programs that guarantee that economic depression only deepens as demand side is hit with austerity programs. Situation is EU - Greece and Italy now as focus of attention - is now at critical stage. When the domino of debt defaults in nation states begins, private of taxpayer recapitalization of the collapsing banking system is not possible. The moment of unpredictability.

There is possibility that whole banking system including central banks gets socialized and democratized, debt balloon gets wiped out and new more sustainable money creation system is created with relatively painless technical solution preserving currencies, pension funds etc, but there is much doubt that the ruling elites are ready to accept end of capitalist era and beginning of socialist era so easily, and that the dive deeper and deeper into final depression and social unrest will continue. In which case we the people need to work together and find new creative solutions to taking care of elderly, children, handicapped, sick etc., solutions that are not necessarily based on any form of money.

Also, it seems quite obvious that this collapse of the financial system is not independent from real economy meeting the limits of growth, most notably in the form of Peak Oil, that current consensus places at 2005 for crude and 2008 for all liquids.

PS: All these matters have been thoroughly discussed on DU and elsewhere, so pleading to ignorance from your part seems rather surprising.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

33. You wouldn't think it funny if your retirement was affected.

Not all of those who invest in the stock market are the 1%

[tama]

35. Out of 7 billion

how many are stockholders?

When corporate persons lay of people, rape nature, etc., they give their motive for doing so quite openly: stock holder value. Monetary profit over everything else.

[eridani]

39. The crash is not any more relevant than any recent gains

The stock market has been disconnected from the real economy for quite a while.