Greeks' choice–and ours: Democracy or finance?

[white_wolf]

I found this on Facebook and thought I'd share. The good news is the article mentions Greece is holding a national referendum on whether to default or not.


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Robert-Reich/2011/1101/Greeks-choice-and-ours-Democracy-or-finance

[FarLeftFist]

1. This brings up a whole lot of philosophical questions.

[Renew Deal]

13. Nice post Socrates!

:hi:

[tama]

2. K&R

[Kennah]

3. I take it Mumba wasn't one of the options

[CoffeeCat]

4. If a national vote is held on this issue...

...the people of Greece will absolutely not vote for a bailout. They
are against it!

In the short term, the US stock market will be volatile and likely to sink further. DOW
fell 300 points today due to the Greece situation.

And Italy is next. They're in the same situation as Greece. They borrowed a ton
of money and they can't pay back the loans. The interest rate on their bonds
is rising and following the same soaring trajectory as Greece.

Who knows what will topple as these dominoes fall. Undoubtedly, the US stock
market will continue on a downward trend, as these events unfold.

It is a fact that many of our big banks are affected by what is happening in
Greece and Italy--because of the credit-default swaps our banks have invested in--
that are directly tied to Greece, Italy and all of Europe.

Yeah. Credit-default swaps. The same shit insurance investment garbage that
brought down AIG, and almost the entire financial markets.

You have to wonder if they're trying to crash it all--on purpose.

[tama]

8. They?

US banks sold AAA+ rated trash paper to European banks that European govts bailed out with the cost of now needing to be bailed out by IMF, and as that for obvious reasons is not working, the shit load will come back home to Wall Street. And that is just one thread of the epic tale of the Fall of the Wall... the whole house of cards. Epic horror story to scare little children when sitting around the camp fire... :)

[defendandprotect]

5. You can't have a democracy without economic democracy -- capitalism ain't it --!!!

[sabrina 1]

6. I don't know why he did it, probably a lot we don't know, but

Iceland did the same thing and they survived. The scare tactics being used to prevent the involvement of the people in what is THEIR business, are just that, scare tactics to save the bankers.

Icelanders were asked about this decision today and remembered when they were faced with a similar situation to Greece's right now. They were given the choice also and voted 'no', twice, then they threw out their government and arrested a few of the perpetrators. It wasn't easy for a while, but now their economy is rebounding. Greece should have defaulted long ago. They are facing years of enslavement to the IMF if they go along with these bailouts. It looks like its 'every country for itself' now. And why should the people of Greece suffer to save the Banks?

[blindpig]

14. Mighta been CYA on Georgie's part

He and Pasok are toast, no doubt about that, so the referendum gives him some sort of cover when the whole thing falls down. "Not my fault!"

[sabrina 1]

17. Not sure about that. From what I've been reading in the

European press, the issue of sovereignty is becoming a huge issue now and the agreement Greece was being asked to sign was close to agreeing to an occupation of that country. Same as what was done in Asia and South America by the same suspects. Someone had to take a stand. From what I read, there is speculation that he did not make the decision alone.

In a way it will slow down, what many are calling, the economic invasion of sovereign nations with Europe now split in two between the Northern members and the Southern members, it may be that 'enough is enough' to keep this Global, Neo-liberal enterprise afloat which requires giving up sovereignty and turning once successful countries into third world nations.

Merkel's unwise words will only add to the fury of those who oppose the Centralized Govt which to many appears now as nothing more than an invasion of their countries.

No matter what they do, the collapse will eventually happen anyhow, like pulling a tooth, it might be better to do it quickly and end this failed system of Globalism which has destroyed countries from South America to India and now to the First World including the US.

All the talk here about cutting Social Programs is the beginning of the same Global, Neo-Liberal recipe for disaster and should be fought furiously by at least Democrats in Congress and our Democratic President. But so far, I don't see much fighting.

[blindpig]

18. Ain't nothing but colonialism.

The EU North would have the South and East as captive markets and sweatshops.

There are functional similarities between the Democratic Party and PASOK. Both pose as parties of the people while toeing the capitalist's line. Big difference is that PASOK has a very credible opposition party to the left, KKE.

[customerserviceguy]

7. If the Greeks vote against austerity

they open themselves up to the same criticism of 1930's Germans: "They voted for Hitler, and they deserve what we do to them."

[dd2003]

9. wtf .... no no no

no

[tama]

11. Only in the mind of those

who would blame Greeks - and already do - for loss of value of their 401 and other financial possessions. Because someone promised that the financial market will always grow, and if it doesn't, let's blame somebody, preferably a foreign small nation. Or jews. Or anybody weak enough. Just as long they can keep on blame-gaming.

[CoffeeCat]

12. Just like in America...

The right-wing meme spread all over talk radio is that the housing crash of 2008 was due
to minorities and the poor purchasing houses that they couldn't afford and ended up
defaulting on.

I can't tell you how much that enrages me.

The banks were dishonest. They went to extensive lengths to bribe our politicians and to lobby
for relaxed lending regulations. They got them. What did they do after they were rid of the
regulations? They wrote as many mortgages as humanly possible. They made a killing. Then, they
rolled those mortgages into worthless securities--and sold them on the secondary market. By
doing this, they made an even bigger killing.

The banks needed a steady stream of loans to continue their windfall. It was like an assembly line.

It's the same with the situation in Greece. The Greek government lied about its financial health when
they were allowed into the EU. Yet, it's the fault of the Greek citizens?

The government and the Greek banks loaned out all of that money--yet somehow it's the fault of the Greek
citizens?

Implosions like this didn't happen when the banks were regulated. They fought like rabid weasels on
steroids, to get their desired deregulation, which allowed them to behave recklessly. They got
their deregulation and they had their party.

But now--it's the fault of the people?

Screw every damn last one of those banksters!

[blindpig]

15. Which just goes to show...

that 'regulated capitalism' is a ephemeral critter at best, brief pauses between reckless profit taking which always succumbs to it's contradictions and leaves the working class holding the bag.

Past time to get off of this merry-go-round.

[tama]

16. Representative system

You are given option to choose this or that corrupt psychopath to decide for you. And when that corrupt psychopath fucks up, it's your fault and you pay.

[sabrina 1]

19. Maybe they will emerge from the refusal to sacrifice their

sovereignty the way Iceland has. Reading opinions from Iceland yesterday, the situation they are in now is the same situation Iceland was in. They chose to say 'no' in a referendum and kicked out their crooked politicians, nationalized their banks, and for a while things were very uncertain, but the sky didn't fall and they are now on the rebound and still a sovereign nation.

I don't see the comparison with Germany in the '30s, I see more of a comparison with Iceland just three years ago. The fear mongering in that case turned out to be false. Maybe the Greeks having been pushed over the edge this time, are choosing to no longer fall for the fear tactics and in doing what they haven now done, at least they are up off their knees and holding the cards, for the moment.

[tama]

10. Robert Reich

"Robert Reich is Chancellor's Professor of Public Policy at the University of California at Berkeley. He has served in three national administrations, most recently as secretary of labor under President Bill Clinton. He has written thirteen books, including The Work of Nations, Locked in the Cabinet, Supercapitalism, and his most recent book, Aftershock."

Why no job in the Obama administration? :D