Someone, please post a link to Obama's statement he will cut Social Security.

[Sheepshank]

It's been said here a lot. The meme is picked up and repeated over and over. I can't find one credible reference that cites Obama using any words that show his intention to cut Social Security to those collecting a ss check.

The only Reference I was able to find is a White House Press release from 2009 where Obama talked at great length about cutting waste and inefficiency and private contracts mostly in the military, but mentions Social Security as an add on.

Is this the cut back references so many have run away with....cost cutting measures in waste and inefficiency?

[treestar]

1. there is none, it is pure hysteria

Like the many posts saying Obama did not really want to repeal DADT (and there has been total silence since the repeal).

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jtown1123]

18. We don't hate Obama. We want him to be accountable to Dem values.

Here is some evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryp3nIQdytc

Digby's interview on Sam Seder. Good Stuff starts at 2:40.

[EC]

41. That is just Seder's opinion

not fact.

[bobbolink]

58. You might want to read Senator Sander's words.

He is not known to be a man to make specious judgments.

It might be worth your effort to avail yourself of his opinion.

[pipi_k]

59. Jumping in here...

Senator Sanders' words

his opinion


These still are not facts...

[jtown1123]

71. He said they would not take SS off the table...how is that an opinion? That's what they told him

[madokie]

151. I got the email from Sen. Sanders and he infers that

due to not getting a solid answer to his question. It is only his opinion. I love the man and wish he would run for President in '12 and I repeat it is only his opinion

[pacalo]

78. Why are there so many articles on the 'net predicting it? They're not just Sanders' words.

If Obama didn't plan on making SS cuts, I'd have thought such a good communicator as he would have put a swift end to all the anxiety already. I expected more from a Democratic president who is loved for his messages of hope.

[jtown1123]

81. You make a pretty good point. He would have put the lid on these speculations if it weren't true

[TheWraith]

107. Because none of the panic-mongers need their hysteria to be based on actual facts.

If you expect the President of the United States to deny every random internet rumor every single day, then you need to reevaluate your expectations. Saying "Why hasn't Obama said he won't cut Social Security?" is no less irrational than saying "Why won't Obama show us his birth certificate?"

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

110. Until it comes straight from Obama's mouth and/or via a plan, it's PURE CONJECTURE.

I love Bernie, but he's stating an opinion.

All these so-called "sources," are stating opinion, not fact.

Putting social security "on the table" says absolutely nothing about "cutting social security."

Just the facts, please!

And, I don't want to hear conjecture. I want to hear it from Barack Obama's OWN mouth!

[True_Blue]

93. He's def been hinting around at it

"Transcrip­­t: Obama On Taxes, Economy And START"

"The problem is, how are we dealing with our medium-ter­­­­m debt and deficit, and how are we dealing with our long-term debt and deficit? And most of that has to do with "entitleme­­­n­ts", particular­­­­ly Social Security and Medicaid."
http://www.npr.org/2010/12/10/131949362/transcript-obama-on-taxes-economy-and-start

I hope he doesn't. It's still not too late. He still has a chance for re-election if he doesn't cut SS.

[jtown1123]

69. What is Seder's Opinion? Digby was at a White House meeting where they said they were going to "fix"

entitlements. Please watch the entire video. That was not opinion, that was fact from a person who was at the meeting.

[JuniperLea]

79. "He wants to" ... "He's thinking about" ... "He is trying to" ...

Yeah, I'm sick to death of this bovine excrement. I'm really only concerned about what he actually says and does. It makes for a much clearer view.

[treestar]

99. It's just an excuse for another round of Obama bashing

Make up something when there is nothing real to go after.

[JuniperLea]

108. Yep, and yep...

I've watched that unfold numerous times... here and elsewhere.

To my way of thinking, this is a sign they have nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I know a lot of people who buy into this... a few of them have my utmost respect and it concerns me greatly that there's an obvious blind spot.

Petty... the petty crap really makes my skin crawl. He "allowed" someone to call him "Dude." Petty and ridiculous that a term of endearment can be seen in this light. The Nobel Prize kerfuffle was petty as well. There's quite a large list of petty... I'm still reeling at the horrible DADT BS that went down here.

[ldf]

166. only concerned about what he actually says and does

by then it will be too late.

but don't let us piss in your cereal.

i seem to remember president obama led us to believe a "public option" was being considered as one of the alternatives for healthcare reform.

it turns out it was never even on the table.

when he states that part of the problem is entitlements, including ss and medicare, while extending tax cuts for the outrageously rich, then what the fuck are we to expect?

huh?

sorry. true colors, and all...

oh, wait! let's get the republicans on board and be all bipartisany. they will surely grok what we are trying to do and meet us in the middle...

THAT has worked SO well, hasn't it? for the sarcasm impaired... :sarcasm:

[lamp_shade]

2. I anxiously await the informed responses you get. I haven't seen one yet on this board.

[AtomicKitten]

3. crickets

[MineralMan]

4. There is no such statement, to the disappointment of some.

Why? Because he has no intention of doing so. That, despite claims by some that he does. Those claims are based only on dislike for him.

[rhett o rick]

48. Wrong and meanspirited. Some believe he has made a number of indications that

he plans on cutting Social Security. For one, he has done nothing to dispell the rumors. He also set up a commission that was biased against SS and in fact are recommending cuts.
Bernie Sanders thinks there will be cuts. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x221273#221523

Why do you think there wont be cuts?

[MineralMan]

57. Some believe. Some say. I hear. It seems.

All supposition. Weasel words. No, thanks.

[rhett o rick]

143. So you think Pres Obama will save Social Security kinda like he saved the public option.

[blondeatlast]

120. "Bernie Sanders thinks..." where I come from, that's called an opinion. nt

[rhett o rick]

142. So what do you think? Do you think Pres Obama will support the public option. Ooops no. Maybe Social

Security. Tell us what you think instead of the bullshit DLC propaganda.

[blondeatlast]

154. Please, kindly indicate what "bullshit DLC propaganda" to which you refer.

Thank you and kindest regards.

[rhett o rick]

156. You avoided my question. nm

[blondeatlast]

162. You didn't ask nicely and I have no idea what you are talking about. nt

[rhett o rick]

165. Maybe if I speak slowly. Do you think Pres Obama will leave Social Security alone?

Why wont you or your brethren talk about your stand on the issues? Is it because your stand is the same as the Repukes?

[pacalo]

80. Nope -- it has NOTHING to do with my dislike. Step out of DU & google the subject.

I like the idea of getting back what my husband & I paid on FICA taxes when we retire a lot more than I could support a politician if he plans on making cuts to what is owed to my husband & me. "Liking" a politician regardless of the harm he causes isn't who I am.

[MineralMan]

6. Normally, I don't mention unrecs, but in this thread I will.

It has been unrecced heavily, and yet, not a single person who has done so has responded with evidence that President Obama has ever called for cutting Social Security. Those who are unreccing the thread can't produce the evidence, so they're silent, but they don't like the thread, because it asks them to do something they cannot. It's a darned shame, I think.

[jtown1123]

9. Please read my comment below.

[Sheepshank]

20. Your comment below draw erroneous assumptions

with no basis in FACT.

[jtown1123]

38. What is erroneous?

1. Fiscal Commission proposals cut SS
2. President Obama is considering these proposals in his 2012 budget.

I'm not saying Obama definitively stated he will cut SS. What I am pointing out is that we need to put pressure on him to stand up strong for SS and defend cuts, as he has not taken it "off the table" for deficit reduction.

[grahamhgreen]

65. And also he cut FICA tax , which will reduce the solvency period of SS. This is an

attack on SS, clear and simple.

Of course, Obama knows, and campaigned on, increasing the cap on SS, which is exactly what should happen.

I don't want to pay less into SS, I want to pay more and have more guaranteed benefits, not gamble my retirement on the stock market which is a rigged casino.

The OP is BS.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

112. The OP is NOT BS. That very same commission report toiled with raising the cap

or the age of retirement. Though it also raised the issue of cutting, Obama himself has not embraced any one of these ideas except for raising the cap.

He campaigned on raising the cap. If the report highlighted this recommendation as one in several, I believe that he could be referring to this.

Again, you still have no specific facts, so your post is BS, not the OP's, which I gladly recommend. :kick::kick:

[grahamhgreen]

132. Technically, you're right, he never SAID he would "cut SS", but

he cut the FICA tax, this reduces the solvency period of SS, therefore he HAS cut SS.

[rhett o rick]

50. You forgot the explaination for your comments. nm

[jtown1123]

66. Here's an explanation, not that it seems to matter:

1. Fiscal Commission proposals cut Social Security. Here is a detailed list of their proposals with explanations of how they will cut benefits for current and future retirees as calculated by economists and Social Security experts:

Link: http://www.ncpssm.org/news/archive/Analysis_of_Commission_Co_Chairs_Proposal/

2. Although the fiscal commission's proposals have no binding authority, a group of "bipartisan Senators" including Mark Warner who has stated Social Security will have to be cut, are poring over these fiscal commission proposals (the ones that cut SS) in order to come up with their own deficit reduction proposal.

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BJ5JZ20101220

3. President Obama is also considering these proposals for his 2012 budget.

Link: http://www.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/12/obamas-fiscal-commission-wins-majority-for-deficit-cuts/1

Quote from article: "President Obama praised the work of the commission and vowed to study its recommendations closely as he puts together his 2012 budget proposal. He also urged Democrats and Republicans to work together to solve the country's deficits and debt."


4. Concerned that the President is considering using these deficit reduction proposals that cut Social Security, Senator Sanders calls the White House, speaks to Obama's economic advisors asking if these SS cuts are "off the table." Sanders does not get confirmation that SS cuts are off the table, therefore the Senator, as well as myself, are concerned.

Link: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/obama-weak-social-security-bernie-sanders-tells-raw/


Not really sure how much clearer I can be. I know critical thinking is lost on the Republicans...I'm hoping Democrats and voters can put two and two together on this. We need to pressure the President to keep his promise on not cutting SS benefits. It's clear he's getting a lot of bad advice from economic advisors who don't give two shits about Social Security. He needs to hear from us loud and clear.

[rhett o rick]

106. Hello, I agree with you. My comment was to the other poster that doesnt. nm

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

113. Let's see...

Quote from article: "President Obama praised the work of the commission and vowed to study its recommendations closely as he puts together his 2012 budget proposal. He also urged Democrats and Republicans to work together to solve the country's deficits and debt."

"vowed to study" is NOT the same as embracing or agree with the recommendations.

Again, the report also suggesting raising the cap among its recommendations. Cuts were NOT the only recommendation put forth regarding this program. Raising the cap and/or the retirement age were also among the recommendations.

Again, pure speculation based on hyperbole and hysterics. No, thank you!

[sabrina 1]

83. Good comment, I just read it. We'll have to wait to see if

the President answers Bernie Sanders' letter asking him about what he has been hearing from top officials, that SS cuts are 'on the table'.

A quick response to Sen. Sanders would end all the speculation, one way or another.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jtown1123]

8. Can you take Obama's silence as an indication? His choice of political and economic advisors?

Of course Obama is never going to come out and say, I want to cut Social Security. What he does do is hire people like Bruce Reed, Daley, and others who advocate raising the retirement age, means testing, privatization etc.

For the past 3 months, Democratic strategists and other advocacy groups have asked the Obama Administration to pledge that he will not cut SS to reduce the deficit. He has not responded. The recommendations from the Fiscal Commission? Silence. All these OpEds and Repukes talking about coming to an agreement to fix SS, along with VP Biden, are big freaking trial balloons. Read between the lines here. It's not that hard.

http://politics.mycn2.com/2011/01/06/from-pure-politics-john-david-dyche-lnterview/

Please don't dismiss a potential threat without doing a little research. Why did Obama appoint SS haters Simpson and Bowles to chair his fiscal commission? Why did he host a fiscal summit with anti-SS crusader billionaire asshole Pete Peterson?

Do I think Obama wants to cut SS? NO. But, he is obsessed with compromise and shoring up a program that will go need some adjustment in 27 years so far that I'm afraid he will accept benefit cuts in sneaky forms (raising retirement age, means testing, COLA adjustments, etc.)

[Blue-Jay]

103. He hasn't said that he's going to fart in your face either.

Ergo, his silence indicates that you will be the recipient of an Obama face-fart.

[WinkyDink]

115. If he'd have bought cans of beans (Simpson) and kraut (Bowles), I might wonder.

[Blue-Jay]

129. LOL!

Good one! :D

[Caretha]

134. Stupidist Reply Award goes to..........U?

[Blue-Jay]

138. I'd like to thank the academy.

:D

(did you really just type "U" instead of "you" and expect me to be insulted?)

[Caretha]

140. Sorry you didn't earn the y & o

[Blue-Jay]

141. If I add your two posts together, I certainly did!

UR teh LULZ, M8

[Scurrilous]

10. Kick

:kick:

[OHdem10]

11. There is a strong possibility that this assumption has arisen from

the fact that when Obama formed the "Catfood Commission",
there was a TV Clip showing Obama saying Social Security
is on the table. It has possibly been concluded that
if the Commission was given SS, the Commission was at
Liberty to make cuts or do what they saw as necessary.
Therefore if he permitted the SS to be cut by the Commission
then he would certainly be open to some kind of cuts or
reforms. Every TV channel has at some point reported
the story that the President said SS is on the table.

[Sheepshank]

14. Bull

creating a commission for fact gathering means jack shit for what intentions to cut back actual dollars to recipients.

Would you not welcome a cut in waste and inefficiency? How do you know this isn't what Obama will walk away with from the Commission? Why must you assume Obama has focused on shrinking a Social Security Check to grandma? Your assumtion is based purely on the rhetoric you bought into that lacks any ANY substantive truth.

[jtown1123]

16. SS does not contribute to the deficit and was not in the Commission's mandate yet he wanted them to

look at it. Keep in mind these people are corporate hacks from Morgan Stanley and Repukes like Simpson who have always wanted to cut SS. There were no SS experts there or actual economists.

[EFerrari]

32. The National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare

does seem worried about this commission and about Obama. This article is short and this snip near the end:

snip

The National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, which has been fighting the proposed commission, recently sent a letter to Congress disputing the entire premise of efforts to slash Social Security:

We appreciate the concerns of legislators who are looking for a means of reducing the federal deficit and slowing the growth in the debt. However, we have significant concerns about any process—including the Conrad-Gregg Commission—that would disenfranchise American voters and subject Social Security beneficiaries to harmful cuts in benefits. As supporters of Social Security, we are surprised to see the federal deficit and the federal debt cited as the reason a commission needs to be established to make cuts in Social Security. The truth is that neither the $1.4 trillion deficit nor the nearly $12 trillion debt has anything to do with Social Security benefits.

For nearly three decades, Social Security has taken in more revenue each year than it has paid out in benefits. These excess funds have been invested in special issue U.S. government securities. Thus, Social Security has effectively been loaning its excess funds to the federal government to spend on other programs. Rather than increasing the federal deficit, Social Security’s annual surpluses have actually been covering up the true size of the deficit in the general fund.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/01/obama-puts-social-security-chopping-block

[jtown1123]

67. big kick. Thanks.

[OHdem10]

45. It was the Deficit Commission. Call it bull, be my guest but

everything I said--happened. I am offering an explanation.

It might be wise for Obama to come out and say where he stands.

I am saying people may have interpreted the events as I described.

[rhett o rick]

52. And you have nothing to prove otherwise. You are spouting rhetoric. nm

[indepat]

55. If when you go to bed and there is no snow on the ground, but when you wake up there is snow on the

ground, one can conclude, with only a smattering of critical thinking, that it snowed during the night. When looking at the social security issue holistically with even a modicum of critical thinking, one can also conclude that with all the groundwork heretofore laid and all the signals said and more importantly unsaid, that social security is going to bear the brunt and burden of the planned reckless fiscal policies and unfair tax policies, perpetual wars, and further implementation of a RW agenda because neither the wealthy, nor large corporations, nor the Pentagon is going to be asked to bear this burden. See, that was not too hard. ;)

[jtown1123]

61. bravo

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

118. Wow, your description of "critical thinking" must be why this report was released...

Source: McClatchy Newspapers

Study: Many college students not learning to think critically

By Sara Rimer, The Hechinger Report | The Hechinger Report

NEW YORK — An unprecedented study that followed several thousand undergraduates through four years of college found that large numbers didn't learn the critical thinking, complex reasoning and written communication skills that are widely assumed to be at the core of a college education.

Many of the students graduated without knowing how to sift fact from opinion, make a clear written argument or objectively review conflicting reports of a situation or event, according to New York University sociologist Richard Arum, lead author of the study. The students, for example, couldn't determine the cause of an increase in neighborhood crime or how best to respond without being swayed by emotional testimony and political spin.

- snip -

Forty-five percent of students made no significant improvement in their critical thinking, reasoning or writing skills during the first two years of college, according to the study. After four years, 36 percent showed no significant gains in these so-called "higher order" thinking skills.

Combining the hours spent studying and in class, students devoted less than a fifth of their time each week to academic pursuits. By contrast, students spent 51 percent of their time — or 85 hours a week — socializing or in extracurricular activities.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/01/18/106949/study-many...

[indepat]

130. That study fit my four-years matriculation to a tee in most all respects: hopefully

during the ensuing 54+ years, a few critical-thinking skills have been acquired. Actually, the first budding of critical-thinking skills might have surfaced in about 1967-68 when, as a member of a naval reserve unit, I began wondering if we fighting the wrong enemy, at the wrong place and time, and for the wrong reasons. Such doubt could not be verbalized for one would have been branded a traitorous pinko commie sympathizer, cashiered out, and maybe prosecuted and thrown in the hoosegow. ;)

[sharp_stick]

22. Clip.... What Clip?

Please link to the clip.

Plus the commission can not make "cuts" they can suggest cuts but they have no legal ability to actually do anything.

[jtown1123]

29. Doesn't matter. Their proposals are being considered by the WH and group of bipartisan senators

Group of Senators including SS hater Mark Warner want to "cut" deficit:

http://www.wbur.org/npr/132624861/senators-start-in-the-middle-with-deficit-talks

Obama considering fiscal commission's proposals for 2012 budget:

http://net2nepal.com/news/breaking_news/obamas-fiscal-commission-votes-11-7-for-deficit-cuts/

[sharp_stick]

30. still no clip

and no evidence. As expected

[jtown1123]

33. hmmm...did you not see the links I provided?

Here's another one:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/obama-weak-social-security-bernie-sanders-tells-raw/

[sharp_stick]

34. Holy Shit

No definitive decisions have been made.... Fuck it's all over, I'll bet Obama now decides to rule by fiat, our democracy is crumbling.

Your links are useless... there is no evidence in any of them.

[jtown1123]

36. No definitive decisions have been made but the trial balloons are everywhere...why not use this

opportunity to pressure the White House to do the right thing? Done with this thread.

Quoting a Senator who spoke with WH officials is not useless. Stop living in denial. Peace.

[bobbolink]

60. Then wait until it is accomplished. Will you then offer apologies to those who are harmed?

[sabrina 1]

86. This sounds familiar. Wait, I know why.

'No definitive decisions have been made on the PO'.

And we received the advice that to fight over something that was only speculation was ridiculous, never mind all the now very familiar signs indicating what turned out to be true.

No PO, just as we suspected, due to all the very obvious signals coming from the WH but flying right over the heads of those 'who would not see'.

And we never even received an acknowledgement that we were correct.

So, what if we are right again? What if this president agrees to SS cuts, that would include, raising the retirement age and/or starting with people 58 or younger, benefits would be cut.

If a Democratic presidents agrees to do anything other than fight to preserve this very solvent program which has nothing to do with the deficit, although he does tie the two together every time he mentions the deficit, what will your excuse be then?

[Poboy]

111. Its the exact 'stand down' until it is too late tactic that is used over and over.

This is standard operating procedure as a tactic to disarm and dissuade people from mounting a counter until it is too late.

[sabrina 1]

127. Exactly, and I'm glad to see that it's not working this time.

Many groups and organizations are working to protect SS and I hope this time none of them will 'STFU' when Axelrod et al, tell them to.

There are simply no acceptable excuses and we should not even entertain them. They can put away their talking points as far as I am concerned because we've heard it all before ~

[bobbolink]

158. Exactly right. That people can't or won't see this shows just how far we have been dumbed down.

:cry:

[EC]

44. Commissions are CYA panels

no one does anything these panels suggest, they are only for kicking things down the road or CYA.

[rhett o rick]

53. That's outrageous. But I agree. nm

[Lasher]

146. You mean like the Greenspan Commission?

Was that one of those panels where nobody did anything they suggested?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

116. SSN being "on the table" is NOT the same as SSN "being cut."

Recommendations from the commission include cuts to the program but were not the only recommended actions. Raising the cap and the retirement age were also recommendations.

[edhopper]

12. It's reported that

Bernie sanders talked with very high Obama officials, and was told SS cuts are on the table.
There was similar talk about the Public Option before Obama killed it.

[jtown1123]

13. Thank you. Many advocacy groups have met with the President on this subject

and he has indicated that SS cuts are on the table. He is smart enough not to say this to a reporter. It's all been through advisors, strategists, etc.

[polmaven]

19. "It is reported that"

President Obama is not a citizen, too. That doesn't make it true, does it?

[jtown1123]

23. I think Bernie Sanders' meeting w/ WH officials is more credible than tea party nonsense

[polmaven]

28. Was it reported by Bernie Sanders

that the president said SS is on the table, or by "a source?"

If it was by Senator Sanders, then why don't you give us a link?

[jtown1123]

31. Link HERE

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/obama-weak-social-security-bernie-sanders-tells-raw/


"I have to tell you, I have been on the phone to the very, very, very highest levels of the Obama administration, and the responses that I am getting are not assuring," Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) said in an exclusive interview. "What I’m told is that no definitive decisions have been made on the issue of Social Security – I expect that is probably true."

[polmaven]

40. Ok, so...to you

"Bernie sanders talked with very high Obama officials, and was told SS cuts are on the table." is the same as "no definitive decisions have been made"? Ummm...just a bit of a stretch.

(Spelling edit)

[jtown1123]

62. read the entire article, That quote was misleading out of context.

I accidentall copied and pasted the wrong one.

[polmaven]

73. So, once again...

"Obama "could have said that’s not on the table," Sanders said. "He didn’t say that."" is also not the same thing as actually saing it is on the table, is it?

[jtown1123]

82. Please follow my train of research here:

1. Fiscal Commission proposals cut Social Security. Here is a detailed list of their proposals with explanations of how they will cut benefits for current and future retirees as calculated by economists and Social Security experts:

Link: http://www.ncpssm.org/news/archive/Analysis_of_Commissi... /

2. Although the fiscal commission's proposals have no binding authority, a group of "bipartisan Senators" including Mark Warner who has stated Social Security will have to be cut, are poring over these fiscal commission proposals (the ones that cut SS) in order to come up with their own deficit reduction proposal.

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BJ5JZ20101220

3. President Obama is also considering these proposals for his 2012 budget.

Link: http://www.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/1...

Quote from article: "President Obama praised the work of the commission and vowed to study its recommendations closely as he puts together his 2012 budget proposal. He also urged Democrats and Republicans to work together to solve the country's deficits and debt."


4. Concerned that the President is considering using these deficit reduction proposals that cut Social Security, Senator Sanders calls the White House, speaks to Obama's economic advisors asking if these SS cuts are "off the table." Sanders does not get confirmation that SS cuts are off the table, therefore the Senator, as well as myself, are concerned.

Link: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/obama-weak-social-se... /


Not really sure how much clearer I can be. I know critical thinking is lost on the Republicans...I'm hoping Democrats and voters can put two and two together on this. We need to pressure the President to keep his promise on not cutting SS benefits. It's clear he's getting a lot of bad advice from economic advisors who don't give two shits about Social Security. He needs to hear from us loud and clear.

[polmaven]

87. Until I hear it from either the president

or an official spokesperson, I will continue to consider all of what you have just posted for what it is .....rumor. Nothing more.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

119. "no definitive decisions have been made on the issue of social security"

means that social security will be cut?

Wow if ever a leap to judgment was made.

With all due respect to Bernie, whom I love, he doesn't know for sure. He himself is assuming that cuts will happen. He has no evidence to show this. No *explicit* statement or plan from these sources were offered.

[sharp_stick]

24. Reported where?

for the love of !#@#, it is reported should at least be backed up with a link to a credible report.

[treestar]

100. Cut what?

If it turns out to be administrative expense, or benefits that go to the rich, are we going to have some backpedaling?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

121. Nope. They'll find something else to go ballistic about regarding Obama.

He'll never do anything 100% right.

[jtown1123]

15. Please watch Digby discuss this on Sam Seder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryp3nIQdytc

She was at a meeting w/ the White House where it was discussed that they wanted to "fix SS" and could reach a grand bargain with Repubs. Very enlightening.

[Sheepshank]

17. Where does "fix" mean a smaller SS check for Grandma rather that fixing waste and inefficiencty

Your assumptions in what you take this to mean are just that. Wholly made up.

You forgot to mention that Obama met with Chinese officials therefore it's been determined that we will all be forced to learn Chinese in schools and will be happy to commute to China to keep our jobs.

Seriously, talking on a subject matter DOES NOT mean the conclusions you are manfacturing.

And here you are touting that meme 3 times already on this thread.

[jtown1123]

21. Because the fixes that are proposed are means testing, reducing COLA and raising the retirement age

If you don't recognize these as cuts, then you should study up a bit: http://www.ncpssm.org/news/archive/Analysis_of_Commission_Co_Chairs_Proposal/

These are cuts, pure and simple, not shit. Why are you so eager to jump down my throat?

What is wasteful and inefficient in SS? It's running costs are less than 1% of overall costs and is in surplus. Why are we talking about "fixing" it now? These should signal some alarm bells. It will need to be adjusted for a 22% shortfall in 27 years...I think we have much more pressing issues now.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

123. Do you know how much money could be saved just by raising the cap?

How do you not know that this is not one of the recommendations that the president is referring to?

Why immediately jump to these conclusions.

What if is just that: A "what if." What if I married a rich man? What if??

It's not fact. It's not an absolute.

What you have here is pure, unadulterated speculation! That's it!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

122. "fix" could mean "cut." "Fix" could also mean "raising the cap." "Fix could also

mean raising the retirement age." "Fix" could refer to "reducing administrative costs."

The bottom line here is that we simply DO NOT know for sure.

You can post all the quotes, sources, articles, hearsay you want. Until there is a plan on the table, I don't think you're going to convince those of us who aren't with you on this.

[Better Believe It]

25. Have you found any statements indicating President Obama won't sign any law cutting Social Security

Please post any promise he's made to protect Social Security along those lines as President.

The "only" thing I've seen so far is President Obama loading up his "deficit commission" and administration with folks who want to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other social programs.

President Obama also clearly indicated that such cuts are on the table.

He ain't ruling em out!

So this somehow escaped your attention?

Now, if I need a duly notarized letter sent to me by President Obama clearing stating "I just can't wait to cut social security benefits in order to get millions of elderly people pissed off" I can't provide such documentation.

I don't think he has said that .... he's not stupid!

[jtown1123]

35. Thanks for talking some sense! I posted plenty of evidence.

Of course he will not issue a statement...is he a moron? No, he wants to win reelection.

What he hasn't done, since the campaign season, is reiterated that SS is "off the table." Plenty of Senators and Congresspeople were able to sign pledges against cuts. Obama has been silent. Senator Sanders spoke with WH officials, and they did not commit to being against cuts:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/obama-weak-social-security-bernie-sanders-tells-raw/

Not sure if we could make it any clearer. What I don't understand is people's denial there could be a problem could lead to a missed opportunity to pester the shit out of the WH. We can put on political pressure too.

[Sheepshank]

37. More quotes available that you would like to admit maybe?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/house-democrats-to-obama-no-cuts-to-social-security.php
In a letter to be sent to President Obama, obtained by TPM, House Democrats will pledge to vote against any legislation based on the commission's report unless Social Security is taken off the table.

"We oppose any cuts to Social Security benefits, including raising the retirement age," the letter reads. "We also oppose any effort to privatize Social Security, in whole or in part.... If any of the Commission's recommendations cut or diminish Social Security in any way, we will stand firmly against them."


http://seniorliving.about.com/od/socialsecurity101/a/obama_ss_benefi.htm
Obama on Raising the Retirement Age or Cutting Social Security Benefits
Barack Obama says he is opposed to raising the retirement age or cutting Social Security benefits.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/1228/Cutting-Social-Security-will-not-fix-the-national-debt
... Social Security is neither going broke nor causing our federal deficits. It never contributed and, unless the law is changed, never will contribute a penny to the debt. It is self-financing, has no borrowing authority, and cannot pay benefits unless it has the income on hand to cover the entire cost.

Today, Social Security is running surpluses and will be in sound financial shape for nearly three decades. Even after that, its long-term shortfall can be addressed easily without cuts. If a corporation could make such claims to its shareholders, it would be cause for champagne, not gloom and doom.

[sabrina 1]

43. Your 2nd link is from his campaign website. He said a lot in the

campaign that he flip flopped on later, such as 'I will not set up a commission on the deficit, those commissions are merely a stealth way to get around Congress dealing with the issue' and went on to say that in his administration such issues would be discussed OPENLY by Congress, not 'behind closed doors' in some Commission. That was to slap down McCain and Clinton in the debates. But as we all know, that was another campaign promise broken.

The letter in your first link is from House Democrats. They would not have felt the need to send such a letter if they were not concerned about cuts to SS.

Anyhow, thanks for the links.

[Better Believe It]

77. He was also for a single payer system and later a strong public option until he was against them.

[sabrina 1]

97. I remember that. He was for a lot of things, he is now against.

And people want us to just 'trust him' with his campaign promises regarding SS :eyes:

Sometimes I wonder if it's the same person.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

126. He's still for a public option, but it wasn't happening in the Congress

no matter how much we wanted it.

However, the Commission also recommended putting the public option back into the health care reform bill. And as the source above commented, Obama has responded "vowing to study the recommendations." Does that mean he'll embrace every single one? Nope. Again, pure conjecture!!

[jtown1123]

72. I'm not worred about the House Dems. Most of them are on board.

That is an excelellent CS Monitor article but it does not state anything about the President's position.

The Senior Living excerpt is back from the campaign trail when Obama was really strong against SS cuts. What most people are concerned about, is that he has not reiterated his commitment against cuts since the fiscal commission proposals came out and we're still waiting to hear it.

We know he was against tax cut extensions for billionaires, yet it was traded away. We want to make sure SS won't be traded away either. Is that so wrong?

[pacalo]

84. Do you realize that the About.com article you posted is from Obama's campaign days?

We already have proof of what he promised when he needed our votes. Now that he's got the job, I'm concerned about his eagerness to please the Republicans who hate the Social Security program.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

125. It's funny. You and others assert that the president is not stupid.

He's not stupid means that he couldn't possibly run and win on a pledge to cut social security.

I, for one, do not think he's a stupid man. Therefore, until I see such a pledge or hear him make such a statement, run on that pledge, etc., I'm withholding judgment.

It's not about being in denial, and it's not about being glued to the president.

It's about waiting to learn the facts before resorting to hysterics.

[Sheepshank]

26. People sure are fighting hard to protect the unsubstantiated meme

really?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

39. Bernie Sanders has stated that he has heard that Obama

is considering cuts to SS.

Obama he would not support the privatization of SS. Did he say, since he became president and after he appointed that Commission, that he will not support a raise in the retirement age?

As a candidate, he said this:

.I believe that cutting benefits is not the right answer; I've seen too many seniors all across the country who are struggling with the limited Social Security benefits that they have; that raising the retirement age is not the best option....

'Not the best option'. But since then he broke his promise NOT to appoint a Commission to deal with the deficit.

He then appointed known enemies of SS to that commission and despite calls to remove Alan Simpson from that commission due to his abusive remarks about seniors and veterans and his clear hatred for SS, there was silence from the WH and rightwing Republican Alan Simpson remains on the Commission.

He also broke his promise not to include mandated insurance in the HC Bill.

He flip-flopped on the Offshore Oil drilling ban.

He backed off ending torture.

He flip flopped on Fisa even before getting to the WH.


This is someone who says one thing and then often does another. The pattern is obvious.

So, because of his record of flip flopping on important issues, his silence on the issue of raising the retirement age NOW follows a pattern of remaining silent when he's about to flip flop once again.

And when someone like Bernie Sanders 'hears' that SS, which should not be part of this debate at all, which is reason enough to be suspicious, is going to be cut, people pay attention.

In a letter to the president, Sanders referred to what he called “worrisome reports” that Obama is considering cuts in Social Security. “I hope that information is wrong and that you will stand by your campaign promises to strengthen Social Security,” the senator said. “I urge you once again to make it clear to the American people that under your watch we will not cut Social Security benefits, raise the retirement age or privatize this critical program.”

A White House fiscal commission appointed by Obama recently called for changes in Social Security. A change in how Social Security is funded as part of the tax deal Obama reached in December with congressional Republicans was another warning sign, Sanders said. Another red flag was raised when Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee evaded a direct question about Social Security cuts. "Let's not rule everything out," Goolsbee said during a Jan. 7 interview on CNN. On Capitol Hill, House Speaker John Boehner repeatedly has said he supports raising the Social Security retirement age to 70.

Read that again from Austan Goolsbee:

Another red flag was raised when Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee evaded a direct question about Social Security cuts. "Let's not rule everything out," Goolsbee said during a Jan. 7 interview on CNN. On Capitol Hill, House Speaker John Boehner repeatedly has said he supports raising the Social Security retirement age to 70

I haven't heard the WH slap down the proposals from the Cat Food Commission. If you have, please provide some links.

[jtown1123]

74. I seriously love you right now :)

[sabrina 1]

102. Thank you, love you too!

I think the silence is what is troubling. There is no major fight going on to dispel the fears that the catfood commission will get what it wants. I think a president who was committed to that fight, would be out every day letting it be known that any member of Congress thinking of cutting SS, was about to be very disappointed.

None of that is happening, so I think we know what to expect. We've here before with the PO! :-)

[Sheepshank]

85. Bernie sander NEVER said "Obama is considering cuts to SS. "

Please produce the actual quote instead of the re-phrased meme

[sabrina 1]

95. Sanders was so concerned about the reports he has heard

that the president is considering cuts to SS that he wrote the president a letter. I am sure the president will respond to assure him that he heard wrong: :eyes:

Dear Mr. President:

There have been worrisome reports that you are considering supporting cuts in Social Security. I hope that information is wrong, and that you will stand by your campaign promises to strengthen Social Security and making sure it remains strong and vibrant, able to pay out full benefits for our children and our grandchildren.

I remember when the suspicions began that leaving a PO out of the final HC was 'on the table' and hearing the same, hyper-ventilating outrage that it should even be speculated on 'before we hear the facts'.

I remember the same demands for 'proof' back then also. I also remember people like Sanders & Kucinich being seriously worried as we were that the PO was about to be sacrificed.

Then I remember hearing, AFTER we were betrayed, that the PO was never on the table to begin with.

Put it this way, as a very famous, or infamous might be more correct, individual once said:

Fool me once .... andyouwon'tfoolmeagain! or something like that. I'l go with Bernie and others who have noticed certain signs, similar to those exhibited before the last sell-out, and attempt to pre-empt it this time.

If we're wrong, no harm done, is there? So, what is your problem with people not taking any chances with something that affects millions of this country's most vulnerable citizens, when we know the predators are swirling around that fund like the vultures they are, and we have a president who has admitted that he is more than willing to 'compromise'. With OUR money? No, no way! Not without a fight.

However, all this can be put to rest if the president just answers Sen. Sanders' letter promptly and puts an end to the speculation.

Tomorrow would already be late, but I'll settle for tomorrow in the interests of (what do you call 'getting along with your own party leadership on subjects there shouldn't even be a debate about?) 'comity' will have to do.

[rhett o rick]

42. I would love to see a Pres Obama quote saying he is going to protect Social Security.

His cat food commission has me nervous.

[EFerrari]

49. Me, too. He hasn't said that, not even after the Cat Food commissioner

insulted American retirees as a group.

Howard Dean was talking as if the cuts are a done deal when he was on Rachel's show defending Daley.

[pacalo]

88. And I felt like a fool after I had posted many times after the cat food commission's PR

announcement, "Obama is at a disadvantage right now. Let's wait until he gets back into the country to see what he says."

He hasn't said one word about their recommendations to cut SS/Medicare. Even with the frenzy of speculation going on, one of the greatest communicators of our lifetime hasn't made an attempt to assuage the anxiety.

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

89. Anxiety is right. Daily companion for women in my age group

who are unemployed. Jobs not there and now Social Security threatened.

[rhett o rick]

46. America's Senator Sanders thinks it is likely. Only the DLC is trying to ease it in.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x221273#221523

[lamp_shade]

47. Hmmm... as I anticipated... NOBODY can find a link.

[madfloridian]

54. His silence is deafening.

[treestar]

101. If a President were required to waste time answering every made up charge

he would not have the time needed to do the job.

He hasn't denied being a Muslim either. This is about equally as ridiculous.

[madfloridian]

124. No, he chose two anti-Soc Sec chairmen. It was his decision.

He knows the anger that is brewing, and he remains silent. It is in my mind a deadly silence, saying that our trust was misplaced.

[treestar]

131. He can't respond to all irrational anger

By people who insist every appointment to every commission means something.

The commission's findings were not adopted even by the commission, if I remember right.

The POTUS does not have time to patiently go over every basic point that people determined to be upset about something refuse to even try to understand.

He knows people think he's a Muslim too, and that it is equally a waste of time to deal with them.

[madfloridian]

147. This is not irrational anger. It is legit fear. He needs to clarify.

[Caretha]

136. That's stupid

Using the strawman that Obama is a Muslim shows that you know no low.

No one on DU thinks he is a MUSLIM. Why the heck did you use that to defend your position. I can only guess is that you are desperate.

[rhett o rick]

56. No link showing Pres Obama saving Social Security. nm

[lamp_shade]

63. "Someone, please post a link to Obama's statement he will cut Social Security"

was the OP's request. So far, nothing.

[jtown1123]

75. The OP suggests that an official statement is the only indication, which is not the case.

No one has ever said that the President has officially come out in favor of cuts. What we do have, is piling evidence that SS cuts are going to be proposed and deafening silence from the White House that those proposals are off the table.

[grahamhgreen]

68. He already has cut SS...

He cut FICA tax , which will reduce the solvency period of SS. This is an

attack on SS, clear and simple.

Of course, Obama knows, and campaigned on, increasing the cap on SS, which is exactly what should happen.

I don't want to pay less into SS, I want to pay more and have more guaranteed benefits, not gamble my retirement on the stock market which is a rigged casino.

The OP is BS.

[Caretha]

137. + 1000

I get so tired of arguing with deniers.

HE ALREADY HAS CUT SS!!! by cutting FICA. UNPRESENDTED. NEVER HAS HAPPENED SINCE SS WAS INSTITUTED. YET OBAMA DID IT/ALLOWED IT/ WAS IN ON IT.

[Sheepshank]

90. Please produce a link

that Obama will not rape every woman he can get his hands on, and conscript every husband so he doesn't have to hear the complants. plaase?

Duh!

[pacalo]

91. If you have a link to the contrary, it would be appreciated. It goes both ways.

[Sheepshank]

144. I was trying to prove a point that went whizzing over your head

one cannot prove a negative in a debate. You are asking me to prove something he hasn't stated. Can't be done. I'm asking you to prove a statement you said Obama made...logical easy question.

All I've got so far on this entire thread are innuendos, conjectures, assumptions and here say, a bunch of ifs, maybe, and we think statements. They are very very useless.

[madfloridian]

51. His appt of the debt commission co-chairs speaks volumes.

I assume that his total silence since that appt means he is willing to accept their plans.

[ljm2002]

64. "It's been said here a lot"...

...NO it has not been "said here a lot". You are mistaken (I am being charitable here). What's been said here a lot, is that he will probably propose cuts, and will probably broach the subject in his State of the Union Speech.

This is not just an issue that is brought up at DU. For example:

===

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/138121-liberals-warn-of-democratic-schism-if-obama-endorses-social-security-cuts

"Liberals warn of Democratic schism if Obama backs Social Security cut"

The battle lines are forming within the Democratic Party over the charged question of reforming Social Security in the days leading up to President Obama’s State of the Union address.

...

Rumors have swirled that Obama may suggest a recalculation of Social Security cost-of-living adjustments or extend an invitation to Republicans to work with him on reducing the program's costs.

===

The article cites Bernie Sanders, Harry Reid, and labor union leaders as people who are concerned. It also mentions Dick Durbin and Steny Hoyer as Democrats who have signaled a willingness to make cuts.

But hey, you just go one promoting the idea that people here have no right to talk about because golly gee, our Prez has not actually made a speech YET where he suggests cuts to Social Security. Because as we all know, we should keep our powder dry and never say a word until our fears are realized and the die is cast.

Bottom line: this issue has been appearing in the news for weeks. This board is a political discussion board. Yes, we will weigh in with our opinions on the issues of the day, EVEN IF the President has not yet made a speech on the topic. WE GET TO.

I HATE this kind of misrepresentation.

(on edit)

By the way: please provide a link where Obama says unequivocally that he will not make cuts to Social Security. Extra points if you can find such a statement made AFTER he became President.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pacalo]

76. "It's been said here a lot."

Broaden your search outside DU: Google "Obama + social security cuts". There's a wealth of articles predicting it.

[Sheepshank]

92. False assumption that all articles

are independenetly researched and not c&p of each other.

Media does this ALL THE TIME. I'd like to see ONE independent credible quote that Obama says he is going to cut social security.

"Fix" doesn't work as a definition of cuts....unless you have a clear factual quote of what is meant by 'fix'. Everything I've heard is that the fix entails getting rid of waste and inefficiencies...a fix.

[pacalo]

98. It works both ways, sheepshank. Do you have a resource that would put an

end to the speculation? I've searched for it myself & was unable to find one.

All articles I could find point to SS cuts; there are none claiming that Obama will not touch SS or Medicare.

How about a friendly bet to be settled after the SOTU speech? If your hunch is correct, I'll write an OP of apology to those who kept the faith despite the odds. If my hunch is right, you'll apologize to those who saw the handwriting on the wall. Deal?

[jberryhill]

94. He posted it here on DU under one of his pseudonyms

He's not throwing down a gauntlet on this, and the GOP will run right over the cliff in 2012 on this issue alone.

[Swamp Rat]

96. Please post all the links thus proving "It's been said here a lot," otherwise this is a Straw Man

I have not seen any threads that claim that Obama said, publicly or privately, "he will cut Social Security."

Furthermore, even if someone did post such a bogus thread or a reply, so what? This is a public message board, not The New Yorker or Der Spiegel.

[TBF]

104. In the first state of the union address he used the words

"begin a conversation on how to do the same for Social Security"

From that speech:

"In order to save our children from a future of debt, we will also end the tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. But let me perfectly clear, because I know you’ll hear the same old claims that rolling back these tax breaks means a massive tax increase on the American people: if your family earns less than $250,000 a year, you will not see your taxes increased a single dime. I repeat: not one single dime. In fact, the recovery plan provides a tax cut – that’s right, a tax cut – for 95% of working families. And these checks are on the way... To preserve our long-term fiscal health, we must also address the growing costs in Medicare and Social Security. Comprehensive health care reform is the best way to strengthen Medicare for years to come. And we must also begin a conversation on how to do the same for Social Security, while creating tax-free universal savings accounts for all Americans."

Here's the speech from whitehouse.gov: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-of-President-Barack-Obama-Address-to-Joint-Session-of-Congress/

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

128. What/?!??!

Comprehensive health care reform is the best way to strengthen Medicare for years to come. And we must also begin a conversation on how to do the same for Social Security, while creating tax-free universal savings accounts for all Americans

Where does it say cutting social security? It flowed from strengthening Medicare to strengthening social security. Where did he say "cutting" or "reducing" or anything of that sort?

[TBF]

139. He is talking about privatizing with his sentence on

"tax-free universal savings accounts for all Americans". If you can't follow that then I have no hope you'll ever understand what he's doing until it's too late. And I don't believe you are that stupid. I believe your willful ignorance is intentional.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

145. Willful ignorance? Your insults are not taken to heart. There is nothing in this

sentence that even comes close to privatization. You're pulling at straws. Rather than wait for real evidence, you come at me with straw men. When caught, you accuse me of being "willfully ignorant." That's mighty wing-nuttery of you. This is not the Tea Party Express. Go to Freeperville for that mess.

[TBF]

148. Hardly where I'd fit in - FR would throw me out in a second when I started talking

about worker's rights. But then, so would you if you had the choice.

The big "compromise" on Social Security will be addressed in this year's State of the Union address. It will be concealed in terms like "adult conversation", "deficit reduction", etc... He will not get up and say "I'm going to cut your social security and take away your medical care". They don't operate like that. And you know that.

When it happens everyone will be in an uproar, and you my fine correspondent, will quietly move ahead with your DLC agenda. I will not be so quiet about it - because I actually care what happens to the Seniors of this country.

[Marr]

105. You just watch-- all the people presently sighing and rolling their eyes

... at those who are concerned about potential SS cuts will either disappear into the vapor once those cuts are made, or insist that it was a practical necessity, we all knew it was coming, and Obama stated clearly that he was going to make such cuts from Day One so we all need to shut-up and move on.

Obama has telegraphed his intent repeatedly, and anyone who's honest can see the same play is in motion that we've seen on multiple other issues. Has he flatly stated that he wants to cut Social Security? Of course not. He's not an idiot. But he also stated he personally wanted single payer, and would not settle for any plan that didn't include a public option, too. His words don't mean anything.

[DirkGently]

157. I think the simplest thing is for DU simply to agree that we will not support any SS cuts, period.

Then there's no need to argue about whether Obama has hinted about them or not.

Seems like it would settle a lot of the heat to see whether we can all simply agree that we will NOT tolerate SS cuts, from Obama, or Republicans, or anyone else. Not as a "compromise" on any issue. Not as a supposed alternative to an even harsher Republican proposal. Not at all.

I assume those who are defending the President as not having having hinted or foreshadowed any such cuts, whether with the Commission, or his comments to NPR, or otherwise, would be willing to agree Obama SHOULD NOT propose cuts to Social Security, for all of the reasons we have discussed before?

[bluethruandthru]

159. I second that!

Once the announcement is made that the retirement age is being raised to 70/72/75, benefits are being reduced by X amount, and - Hallelujah - we'll all be able to invest up to 5 percent of our income "tax free" on Wall Street...I hope there aren't any threads about how grateful we should be that Obama saved us from the Republicans.

[DirkGently]

160. Yes. This is exactly the concern.

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

114. Do you think he will spell this out in those terms? He ain't crazy.

[Doctor_J]

117. As soon as you post one where he says he will continue torture

[Hello_Kitty]

133. Bookmarking until the SOTU.

Y'all better hope he doesn't say anything that resembles a desire to cut SS.

[katnapped]

152. They'll find SOME excuse

As the others have said, it'll be something like "This was the best we could do", or "We need to have an ADULT conversation", or some other hollow bullshit excuse to defend it.

Oh and expect the tired "Either you agree with it or you're a racist/want Sarah Palin" meme to show up as well. That you can take to the bank.

[Odin2005]

135. He created the Catfood Commision to say it for him.

[SidDithers]

149. And still no Obama quote...nt

Sid

[TBF]

153. To my knowledge he has never said he will CUT social security -

which is what people want to see. Nevertheless, he has given us indication by other things he has said. That is not black and white enough for those who think like first graders of course. When the cuts are in place and the legislation is passed, no matter what actual words they use to describe it, it will be too late.

Y'all are not half as clever as you believe yourself to be, and when actual people are dying in the street it is you who are responsible for enabling the president to do these reprehensible things.

[GrantDem]

150. Bookmarked...

For reply after Obama cuts SS.

[DirkGently]

155. NPR Interview, Dec. 10, 2010. SS and Medicaid are "long-term debt and deficit" to be dealt with.

Except, of course, Social Security is not part of "the deficit."

OBAMA: Actually, I think that if you talk to economists, both conservative and liberal, what they'll say is the problem is not next year. The problem is, how are we dealing with our medium-term debt and deficit, and how are we dealing with our long-term debt and deficit? And most of that has to do with entitlements, particularly Social Security and Medicaid.

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/10/131949362/transcript-obama-on-taxes-economy-and-start

[GrantDem]

161. Apparently the voters see something the OP doesn't:

Obama's Social Security Talk Is Turning Voters Off, Pollsters Say

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's apparent willingness to consider cuts in Social Security benefits may be winning him points with Washington elites, but it's killing him with voters, who see the program as inviolate and may start to wonder what the Democratic Party stands for, if not for Social Security.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/19/obama-social-security-talk-polling_n_811209.html

[great white snark]

163. Froomkin(check), hit piece(check).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x594556

[GrantDem]

164. Sorry...

After all the "compromises" I just can't get my hopes up.