Should the Bush taxcuts be allowed to expire ?

[kentuck]

Again?

Or should they only expire on those families making over $250,000 per year?

What happened to "everyone will have to sacrifice"?

[Autumn]

1. Yes, Bush and Obamas tax cuts must expire.

I don't know, seems like only the poor and elderly have had to "sacrifice"

[dkf]

2. Expire them all.

[gratuitous]

3. No, Democrats will lose their House majority!

Oh wait. Uh . . . How will we propose this to the American people? Er . . . The Republicans will demagogue the issue! Uhm . . . We're in a recession. No? Unemployment is over 9%, and you can't raise taxes while so many people are out of work. Hmmm.

Okay, how about just "No" then. Does "No" work for you?

[JoePhilly]

6. huh ... that makes no sense. You might want to check the date on which they expire.

[lame54]

4. expire

[WinkyDink]

5. EXPIRE. Period.

[Chan790]

7. Yes, while we're at it...raise capital gains. n/t

[LonePirate]

16. If all Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire, wouldn't the capital gains rate increase, too?

[Chan790]

24. I'm uncertain.

In any case, I mean stop taxing Cap. Gains at a lower rate than income.

[Tansy_Gold]

8. Didn't you get the word? They expired a long time ago.

It was so much easier to let them expire than try to repeal them, spending precious political capital on something that was going to happen anyway.

Please see Post #54 on
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7922946



I wish the :sarcasm: really applied here. It sorta doesn't.



TG, ITYS

[Ezlivin]

9. They should be inverted

N/T

[TheWraith]

10. Preferably, only on those making over $250,000 a year.

However, that's likely impossible thanks to the Reps, and they'll all expire, prompting the Reps to claim that Obama is raising people's taxes.

[kentuck]

11. Why shouldn't they all expire?

These are tough times. Everybody needs to sacrifice a little.

[hfojvt]

21. isn't that kinda absurd though

to ask people in the bottom 20% to sacrifice?

In 2010, the bottom 20% got $3.1 billion in tax cuts thanks to Bush, and probably something similar in 2011 and 2012 thanks to Obama.

But in 2010. the top 1% got $132 billion in tax cuts. Tax cuts which which extended thanks to Obama's lack of guts. So, after two years of giving $264 billion in tax cuts to the top 1%, we would turn around and demand a sacrifice of $3 billion from the bottom 20%.

No, no, no, no, no. Fuck that with a capital F and five exclamation points!!!!! Before that happens why don't we reverse the Bush tax cuts AND add another $5 billion to their taxes to make up for the tax cuts they never should have gotten in the first place.

[kentuck]

23. I don't think they pay any taxes ?

Anyway.

[hfojvt]

28. yeah I see now that I wrote that last line wrong

I left out that part in the brackets.


Before that happens why don't we reverse the Bush tax cuts (for the top 1%) AND add another $5 billion to their taxes to make up for the tax cuts they never should have gotten in the first place.


But there are many in the bottom 20% who still pay Federal Income taxes. According to IRS statistics some people with AGI less than $5,000 are paying income taxes. I'm not even sure how that's possible.

[TheWraith]

27. Why should they? Struggling families need every dollar they can get.

It may not be a ton of money, but it's some. Plus, $250,000 is the level under which Obama pledged not to raise taxes on them.

[Yo_Mama]

12. I don't think increasing income taxes on the poorest people

is a good idea right now, with high inflation. Real income losses are hurting the economy more than anything else, and restraining job growth. I just don't see how raising income taxes on a woman with a kid earning 30K a year would help anything.

But I think raising income taxes on those with incomes of over 75K single or 100K household must be done. There's no possible way to deal with our problems otherwise.

[Autumn]

17. This may come as a surprise to you, but

when Obama extended the tax cuts for the wealthy, taxes did go up on the poor.

[Yo_Mama]

29. No it doesn't - I was literally sick at the time

But increasing the tax rate on the lowest bracket by 1/3rd (lowest tax bracket under Bush was cut from 15% to 10%) isn't wise at this time.

When the Bush tax cuts were extended by the Obama admin last year, they swapped out the MWP credit for the FICA tax cut. The FICA tax cut gave a large tax cut to high earners and inflicted a tax increase on anyone earning under 20K a year. That was a bad policy error.

But we don't need to compound it by raising taxes on people who are just getting by.

If we return to pre-Bush era tax rates, those same workers will get an income tax rate increase from 10% to 15% on their last dollar.

At this site you can see the bracket changes:
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

2000 Tax brackets:
http://njaes.rutgers.edu/money/taxinfo/marginaltaxbrackets2000.asp

2010/2011 tax brackets:
http://www.savingtoinvest.com/2010/04/2010-and-2011-tax-brackets-new.html

[JoePhilly]

13. Are you serious?

I'm sure that you know that Obama extended ALL of the Bush tax cuts until the END of 2012.

Which means, for then to EXPIRE, we have to have no new legislation to end them, or extend them PRIOR to that date.

Now ... to allow the tax cuts on the rich to EXPIRE, Obama will also have to allow the tax cuts for the middle class to expire ... which is fine.

You should note that Obama, whether re-elected or not, assuming no congressional action here (which is a good assumption) can let them ALL expire.

Sure ... he'd rather let only the tax cuts for those over 250k expire ... but if congress can't protect those middle class tax cuts ... oh well, they go to.

And so ... the Dems in congress SHOULD be able to push to extend the middle class tax cuts, but not those for folks making over 250k, or 500k, or 1 million, or 5 million, or 10 million ... but the GOP will NEVER willingly accept any of those ...

Regardless ... your OP seems to suggest that these tax cuts should be allowed to expire some time soon ... which can't happen. The experation date is already set. End of 2012.

So maybe what you mean is that those tax cuts should be repealed by congress ... no? Not that they would do it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. This government is nonfunctional. "Do nothing" is the only viable option.

Which means they all expire.

[benld74]

15. NOTHIGN should be trusted beyond its expiration date, THESE should NEVER have been,,,,,

[indepat]

18. junior's tax cut have expired, but were resuscitated by BHO: sadly it's now BHO's tax cuts and

wars, and Patriot Act with the TSA's excesses and outrages as lagniappe: now it's beginning to look like cuts to social security and Medicare will also be BHO's. :cry: :patriot:

[Enthusiast]

19. If that is the only way to return taxes on

upper income earners to the previous level I'm for it.

[hfojvt]

20. only if the Republicans hold them hostage again

it's better to have them all expire than to extend them all again.

However, in deficit terms, I think that 60% of Americans can and should be allowed to keep those tax cuts.

Here is an analysis of who gets them http://www.ctj.org/pdf/gwbdata.pdf

Looking at 2010

the bottom 20% (income under $20,000) got a mere .9% of the tax cuts. That means they can keep their tax cuts and the government still gets back 99.1% of the lost revenue from the BTC.

the next 20% (income under $35,000) got 4.2% of the tax cuts So keeping the tax cuts for people making less than $35,000 would only mean 5.1% lost revenue.

the tax cuts for the middle 20% (those making less than $56,000) are only 6.8% of the total. So if 60% of the population keeps their tax cuts, the revenue loss is only 11.9% of the cost of the Bush tax cuts.

In practical terms though, keeping the tax cuts for people with incomes below $50,000 will, of necessity, also benefit those with income above $50,000. Because they also save money from things like the 10% bracket on the first $8,000 in income.

But keeping the Bush tax cuts for incomes below $250,000 gives far too much in tax cuts to the rich, which I have written about many times, like here http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/147

[KoKo]

22. I think that both the Repugs and Democrats want the "Bush Tax Cuts" to expire..

so they can do their own parsing and dicing and slicing...

But, in the end, they will expire. But be spun for both sides as a victory.

What do "YOU" think? You are careful to not every express that..

[krispos42]

25. Does a bear shit in the woods? n/t

[bluestate10]

26. Expire for everyone that got one. nt