Occupy Los Angeles' Demands and Objectives Committee releases 8 preliminary demands. List below:

[coalition_unwilling]

Hey, folks, been down with a pretty severe cold for the past couple days. On this past Sunday, though, I attended a meeting of the Demands and Objectives Committee of Occupy Los Angeles. It has agreed upon a set of 8 preliminary demands that have been reported out to the General Assembly and will be under consideration in the days to come.

I thought folks on DU might like to get a sense of what an Occupy movement's demands might look like. So here they are (without comment):

1) Stop the wars

2) Repeal the Patriot Act

3) Divert military spending to social programs

4) Declare a moratorium on all residential foreclosures

5) Prohibit LA County personnel, e.g., Sheriff's deputies, from assisting in any foreclosure actions

6) Repeal the National Security Act

7) Repeal the Federal Reserve Act

8) End Corporate 'Personhood'

The only one I strongly oppose is Demand #7. The one I most strongly support is #5 as it is the most specific and contains within it the seeds of its own implemenation (via the LA County Board of Supervisors).

Look forward to reading people's take on this list.

[NeedleCast]

1. Don't Understand 7 - Isnt that a Tea Party Talking Point?

Otherwise I support most if not all of these points, but think they need to be more clearly defined. For example, I agree with point three, but only on a limited basis (i.e. not a 100% diversion). I'd also need some exceptions for #4. Don't know enough about #6 to comment.

[abelenkpe]

4. Many liberals want to end the fed too

but then want the government to operate a central bank. It's the fact that it is private that many object to.

But yeah, that one sticks out. Very teapot/libertarian.

[coalition_unwilling]

6. Many of the people calling for an end to the Fed offer no explanation

of why it is is evil, nor what it would be replaced with. It's not an issue I pay much attention to under ordinary circumstnaces, so I will be open to the debate as a learning experience.

I associate the End the Fed claptrap with the Ron Paulite faction that, say what you will about it, seems to be a more well-organized block at OLA than many others.

[Xithras]

12. JFK wanted to abolish the Fed.

It's not Paulite claptrap.

First, the Constitution puts the power to craft and control currency in the hands of Congress. The Fed is not Congress, so having a private Delaware-registered corporation in charge of our currency is unconstitutional.

Second, because the Federal Reserve is a private corporation, it has controlling shares. The top shareholders of the Federal Reserve bank include Chase, Goldman Sachs, several major international banks, and formerly Lehman Brothers. The Fed controls our monetary system, and the banks own the Fed. The Fed IS the bank, and OWS is all about breaking the power of the banks.

Third, the Fed has long been used by warmongers as a way to finance war. Accrue too much debt in a war? No problem! We'll just devalue the currency a bit, make that war debt less valuable, and pay it off a bit quicker.

Fourth, the primary beneficiaries of the Fed's actions have ALWAYS been the corporations and big banks. The good of the people isn't even on their radar screen. But what else would you expect from a private corporation that is controlled by the banks, run by corporatists, administered by unelected leaders, and is in control of one of the biggest economies on the planet? There's an old "absolute power" quote that fits well here.

Liberals who oppose the Fed don't generally oppose the concept of a national bank, but just oppose the CURRENT national bank in its existing form. Abolish the Fed. Replace it with something better. Something owned and controlled BY THE PEOPLE.

[NorthCarolina]

28. EO11110 bought Kennedy an eternal flame. nt

[Matariki]

43. Thank you for that explanation.

Interesting.

[coalition_unwilling]

127. Thank you for that detailed explanation. This is why I said the

demands were 'preliminary'. Your work in this post shows how such an abstract demand -- to repeal the Federal Reserve Act -- could be handled legislatively in a way that promotes sanity, rather than returning to some primitive barter or gold bug system.

I love this about the Occupy Movement, because all the sacred cows are now in play and having to sing for their supper, so to speak.

Thanks again!

[cui bono]

40. There are issues the 99% and the real Tea Partiers, not the racist hangers on, agree on.

They are also part of the 99% and it would be great if everyone could be brought together in this movement. 99% is not left or right, it's greedy rich or the rest.

[flamingdem]

88. I totally disagree. The teaparty is responsible for supporting Bush tax cuts, ending social program

and on and on.

I wouldn't go near the majority of them, their base gets in line with the big fish in congress

[cui bono]

94. And Obama is responsible for extending the Bush tax cuts.

If this movement is to succeed we must not let the media, politicians conquer and divide. They want us to fight amongst ourselves and not find common ground on which to fight against them.

Both OWS and TP want to end spending waste.
Both disagree with the bank bail out.
I think both don't want politicians bought and paid for.

Start with that and more will follow. Remember that those who listen to Rush and watch Faux News need to be reprogrammed. It is our responsibility to try to enlighten them without calling them stupid, etc., and once they see what's really going on we can bring them along.

[flamingdem]

89. yes. beware those who want a coalition w teaparty / ron paulists nt

[abelenkpe]

2. Totally agree.

Hope that demand number five is met. :)

[Cant trust em]

3. Great! I'm glad that they're starting to come up with a platform for legislative action.

I think it's time to get organized for making substantive change. The camp has gotten a little stagnant in the last couple of weeks. Let's start getting some laws passed!

[coalition_unwilling]

8. I agree. Just so folks have a little better sense of next steps, the

Demands and Objectives Committee has sent the set of 8 demands to the Research Committee where each demand will be fleshed out and documented. After the Research Committee finishes working up each demand, they will be returned to D&O which will place them formally before the GA for debate and consideration.

Fascinating stuff to see in person.

[flamingdem]

15. Dont' you get that this list will make them look ridiculous? End the FED Nice fringey Ron Paul goal

What a bummer they aren't able to do something realistic

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. End the fed is as American as apple pie

In one form or another it goes back to Jackson...yes THAT Andrew Jackson.

This fight in fact goes all the way back to the founders. A few WANTED a central bank.

As Xinthras pointed above JFK, hardly a Paulite, would applaud this.

Personally what I object to is being private, and non auditable...way too much inside baseball I know.

[flamingdem]

30. This is not a goal of the people who are angry about economic injustic - this is fringe

and makes this list sound unrealistic and unfocused

Someone has to acknowledge what is effective and what is not.

This kind of list tells me OWS is in Woo Woo and not going to be relevant to the political scene for long
sadly

I hope other occupy groups have smarter folks at the helm

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Well then I guess we should not reform the system.

It is part of it...research HOW the fed works, no, for real.

Why they need to become a public entity.

We will disagree. I can see that.

But this is NOT fringy...and it is part of the problem.

Oh and as to that research do stay away from prison planet etcetera. There are actual academic (fringy I know) academic papers on how our fed works and is not precisely working for you or me.

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. In Occupy Los Angeles, there are many Ron Paul supporters

I've spent a lot of time there and the Ron Paul-ers are everywhere and very vocal. More so than any other splinter.

[coalition_unwilling]

48. True, but the saving grace of OLA is that it uses 100% consensus.

This means that if a proposal threatens OLA solidarity, the person feeling threatened may 'hard block' the proposal and, in so doing, force further debeate, revision of the proposal, withdrawal or tabling of the proposal, and so on. It should go without saying that, unless a very convincing Ron Paul spokesperson convinces me to renounce 6 years of economics training, I will be hard blocking the proposal from here to eternity. And there are many others at OLA's GA who feel exactly as I do. The proposal will go nowhere, as written.

[Cronus Protagonist]

56. I, for one, am glad for that as these Ron Paulers make me cringe

Almost as much as the "Occupy the Hood" people do when asking me for donations. (Isn't the hood already occupied with the 99%?)

[coalition_unwilling]

66. Anyone asking you for donations has not been authorized by the

General Assembly to do so and should be looked at askance, imho. Any and all donations should be made through the Resources (pka 'Finance) Committee, in the interests of 100% transparency.

Don't know much about the "Occupy the Hood" folks - I've seen their tent and heard a couple of their folks speak, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

[Cronus Protagonist]

71. When I was there on Saturday, a young guy came to me with a bucket for money

He said he was collecting money for a bar-b-que for the people there... (the people at the demonstration are mostly vegans, I must add) the guy's friend had a mobile DJ rig setup and there were about twenty people dancing. The bucket came around three times and each time I refused to hand over cash. After about 30 minutes of no cash, the DJ packed his stuff up, his two assistants gathered up the gear and a chick in a Lexus drove over, following which the guys put all the gear into the Lexus and drove off, with the bucket. I was glad I didn't put any cash into it.

I was left wondering why such rich kids were so desperately in need of cash that they would do this... then I realized they were the sons and daughter of the 1%, trying to turn the protest into a money making scheme. It was a good example of the difference between people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Locals have set an actual donation page

It's so small though that passing the hat is equivalent. There, it's large.

[coalition_unwilling]

75. I'm glad you did not contribute any $$ to this non-authorized (and

frankly fraudulent) solicitation. All donations must go through Resources! No exceptions. I wonder where the so-called Peacekeepers (pka 'Security') were. IMHO, they should have been stepping on this like a ton of bricks. I'll definitely have my scam radar on full alert this coming Saturday and Sunday when I am next there.

[coalition_unwilling]

47. OK, this is a set of 'preliminary demands' not a finalized set by

any menas. It has yet to be debated by General Assembly or voted upon. Judging by comments I heard when it was under discussion (in a warm-up 'open mike' segment for Saturday's GA), I suspect that there are many at OLA like myself who intend to hard block it into the oblivion it deserves.

My point in publishing the list was to counter the right wing clap trap that the Occupy movement has no demands. We do and the right wing, as usual, is full of shit, as this set of demands from D&O proves.

[KansDem]

5. I would have suspected a reference to ending the current unfair tax rates.

Maybe...

9) End Bush tax cuts and return to pre-Reagan tax rates.

[coalition_unwilling]

9. Agreed. I wish to reiterate that this is a list of 'preliminary' demands and

far from the final product. But, since you mentioned it, I will be passing along your (and now my) demand this coming weekend, upon my next visit to OLA :)

[snooper2]

7. Los Angeles is the most populous city in California

Los Angeles was founded by Spanish Governor Felipe de Neve
The city is both flat and hilly, with the highest point being 5074 feet above sea level
Port of Los Angeles is one of the busiest container ports in the World
More than 50 million people go to LA’s beaches each year
LA is the birthplace of the Mazda Miata

[coalition_unwilling]

10. Thanks for the tourism bullet points. Do you have any ideas

about the list of OLA's demands?

[RZM]

119. Randy Newman has also declared his love for it in song n/t

[rjj621]

11. Here in Va

It's usually part of the Sheriff's office who have always served any official papers including foreclosure notices and evictions.

I'm wondering about #3, what percentage of military spending? Certainly not all of it and any social programs in particular?

I don't agree with a full repeal of the Patriot Act (definitely some bad points and needs reworked) or National Security Act.

[coalition_unwilling]

49. Again, wish to stress that this is a list of 'perliminary' demands. None

has yet to be put forward to the General Assembly or voted upon by GA.

However, since you mentioned that you don't agree with a "full repeal of the Patriot Act," what parts would you retain and why? And what parts would you discard and why? (This, I think, is the essence of civil discussion that GA is nurturing, btw.)

[rjj621]

106. Much of the Patriot Act was a knee jerk reaction and seriously

Infringes on any freedoms and rights of citizens. That does not mean all of it is crap. For example, law enforcement, intelligence and national security agencies should share information. It's idiotic for the CIA or NSA to have info on a terrorist and know they were planning something and coming to the US but not be able to share with the FBI or local law enforcement. This to me is the biggest part to hold onto.
Allows victims of hacking to ask for law enforcement to assist like they would a physical burglary. In the current digital age it needs to be acknowledged and treated as simple trespassing or more seriously depending on the methods and motives.
Additional penalties for those who commit terrorist related crimes and those who knowingly harbor them.

I do NOT agree with the lax wiretapping and eavesdropping of citizens. I strongly disagree with the "rational" of "nothing to worry about if you're not doing anything wrong". To me this is not only idiocy but naive and a blanket okay to begin going down a very slippery slope. That being said, I am also not naive enough to think it's not and wasn't happening prior, just couldn't use them against anyone. NSA has been collecting data for a long time.

[coalition_unwilling]

112. Thanks for your observations. I will try to make sure they are shared

during any debate on a proposal covering Demand #2. I'm not a policy wonk, by any means, so I tend to defer to those (like EFF) who specialize in such matters to take my positions.

[county worker]

13. I don't see much that will solve the problems caused by this economy.

I would hope that they consider the types of ideas that Roosevelt had in the 1930's

[coalition_unwilling]

132. I have gradually acquired confidence in the consensus model

for decision making. (WARNING: It can be addictive, once you catch the spirit.) I suspect that as these demands move through the process and become specific proposals that some of FDR's contributions will re-appear.

[flamingdem]

14. Wow. Not well done. Shows that the Ron Paul gang is involved and it's fringey

and vague.

They will not impact patriot or national security act ... OH CRAP more RON PAUL stuff

What a shame to dilute reachable demands with this fantasy stuff

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flamingdem]

23. It's not THE POINT of this movement! They need to focus on jobs and economic injustice!! nt

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flamingdem]

55. To bad those who were are so out to lunch nt

[redqueen]

19. +1

[RegieRocker]

22. -1

[TBF]

16. If there is a moratorium on all foreclosures why would you need #5?

Don't like #7, love #2

But if we don't get rid of capitalism we're just setting this up to happen over and over again ...

[slackmaster]

20. There can never be a moratorium on all foreclosures

It's not a realistic goal.

[TBF]

25. How do you feel about worldwide socialism as a "realistic goal" -

Don't bother responding, it's a rhetorical question.

:banghead:

[slackmaster]

41. Most countries in the world have some degree of socialism

So it's not unrealistic at all.

Foreclosure is a remedy for one party failing to fulfill the terms of a contract. A contract is either valid and enforceable, or it's not. Government should not have the power to arbitrarily invalidate or all contracts, at least not without fair compensation to the party whose remedy is revoked. That would not be Socialism in any sense of the word.

[TBF]

93. A moratorium is a legal delay - not an invalidation. nt

[U4ikLefty]

133. Don't bother parsing...he's too busy shilling.

[coalition_unwilling]

50. I agree there is some slippage between the demands on this list. It is,

I stress again, a list of 'preliminary demands.' Not a list of finalized proposals. However, I could see people like you and me hard-blocking #4 (the moratorium on all residential foreclosures) but accepting some version of #5 (Forbidding LA Sherriffs to participate in foreclosures) as a compromise position.

My own personal love is #3 (divert military spending to social programs). People are hurting and they need help.

[flamingdem]

54. It's an unrealistic MESS. That will not contribute to broadening the movement, + has no focus nt

[coalition_unwilling]

62. A specific measure calling for the LA Sherriff's to discontinue

participating in foreclosure actions (Demand #5) would enjoy huge popular support in Los Angeles, I would wager, as would specific proposals to divert money from the Pentagon parasites to social programs.

Real democracy, and not the Stepford type, is messy. But it's also beautiful, once you open your heart to it.

[flamingdem]

64. It's unlikely to happen. As for diverting $ you can see where we are in congress

the occupy la people are pissing in the wind, pissing away an opportunity to get things done with ideological issues that aren't bread and butter and are unachievable

[coalition_unwilling]

70. I think your sentiments can be rightly charactrerized right now as

'defeatist'. What you call 'pissing in the wind' I call 'blowin' in the wind' (see Bob Dylan).

Just to give you one example of a way a demand on this list might play out hypothetically:

Occupy Los Angeles GA votes out a demand for LA Sheriffs to stop participating in all residential foreclosures.
Demand is taken to LA County Board of Supervisors meeting for consideration by LA County Board of Supervisors.
LA County Board of Sups votes up or down.
If up, no more Sherriff's particiaption in foreclosures.
if down, Occupy Los Angeles starts making Sups pay political price for their 'down' vote by supporting opponents, fielding candidates, occupying LA County facilities, and so on.

The beauty is that each of these 5 steps above will have been deliberated and voted on in consensus by the OLA GA. Isn't that what we want a democracy to do (one man, one vote)?

[slackmaster]

18. I strongly oppose #5!

If government law enforcement people cannot become involved in resolving a dispute, private goon squads hired by the lenders will take their place.

Police and sheriffs are there to ensure that everyone follows the law.

[AntiFascist]

21. This thread seems to be getting unrec'd....

could it be because of Demands #1-3?

[flamingdem]

26. The OP is not a fail, but the list is a fail and a bad omen for the movement, imo

I was worried about their process and you can see the hodge podge it produces. Plus, the Ron Paul supporters are gaining a foothold.

Many will NOT go near a movement that stinks of Ron Paul phoney libertarianims, but they are all over this movement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I see social and Econ justice there

Ending personhood is exactly that.

You think the patriot act is Ron Paul claptrap? Heavens on a stick I guess I am a Paulite and didn't even know it!!!!

[flamingdem]

37. Ron Paul is a right wing racist demagog. Ending the Fed is not going to happen

so why dilute the movement with ideological items that will not happen, it's stupid and sad

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. We know things are exactly as they ever was

And we have kings. A lesson from history is...never, ever, say never.

[AntiFascist]

32. So, anyone who opposes the Fed is automatically a Ron Paul supporter?

Maybe, instead of focusing on Ron Paul, you should explain why the Fed is so important? Not that I have any strong opinions myself, but I'm interested to know where you are coming from.

[flamingdem]

34. The Fed is not going to be ended. This is fairy dust stuff and fringe nt

[Xithras]

46. It's only "fringe" because you let them define it as such.

There was a time, not all that long ago, that abolishing the Fed was a mainstream political idea, advocated by sitting Presidents and members of Congress. The whole "fringe" thing is a Reagan-era corporatist attempt to minimize a movement that threatens the stranglehold of the banks.

We could make it a mainstream idea once again...if the people who are supposedly "with us" would stop shooting us in the back.

[flamingdem]

53. I think 1% of the US population favors ending the Fed. 90% don't know anything about it nt

[girl gone mad]

143. You're out of touch.

The Federal Reserve is a deeply unpopular institution.

Most people want to see significant reforms, at least, since the Fed has not been successful in achieving price stability or full employment.

Here is the progressive view on ending the Fed: http://www.newdeal20.org/2010/12/01/end-this-fed-28595

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[coalition_unwilling]

52. Whew! Glad I'm not a fail :) I actually think the list is proof that

the Occupy Movement is capable of verbalizing its grievances. The standard right-wing claptrap has been that the Occupiers don't know what they're protesting about or against and don't have any solutions.

This list is a direct refutation of that right-wing meme.

I will stress again - this is a list of 'preliminary demands' and not a set of finalized proposals. I plan to hard block the Ron Paul kookery into oblivion and I know I will be joined my many others. What typically happens when there are irreconciable hard blocks is that the proposal under consideration is tabled and returned to Committee for re-working and re-vision. Often, once a proposal is tabled, it is never seen or heard from again.

[rjj621]

29. Why would #1 cause unrec?

I can see the debate in #2 and 3, I mentioned those two in my post. I don't think the Patriot Act needs a full repeal because not every bit of it is bad but some of it is awful. #3 needs more detail on what is being asked.

Either way most of this is list is pointless and won't change a thing.

[AntiFascist]

36. The answer to your question should be obvious...

few politicos even talk about ending wars. The supercommittee would rather cut SS and medicare than consider further cuts in defense spending. Those who profit from the $trillions being wasted would be against the top priorities in this list.

[coalition_unwilling]

83. Hell, I thought I was providing a public service in publishing the

list. Seems I have ignited the DU version of 'Bleeding Kansas' without ever having intended to. Oh well :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Nothing will start until eight happens.

The end fed we really need to educate people on the history of it. Personally the first step is for it NOT to be private and be fully audited. We need a central bank, just not a PRIVATE central bank.

[Zorra]

38. Looks to me like a lot of tagalongs who don't understand

what we are really fighting against are getting involved in the LA General Assembly decision making process.

*sigh*

[coalition_unwilling]

57. Hunh? This list has nothing - ZERO - to do with the General

Assembly (other than that the GA authorized the creation of the Demands and Objectives Committee).

This PRELIMINARY list is a product of the Demands and Objectives Committee. None of its measure have been deliberated on, debated as specific proposals, or voted on by the GA.

You're privileging your voice ('we') against others' voices ("a lot of tagalongs"). But here's the nifty thing about GA - every one's voice is equal! Your voice enjoys no privilege over anyone else's but no one else's voice enjoys privilege over your voice either.

[Zorra]

103. Good, I'm really glad! My mistake, Thanks.

You are correct.

I like the objectives. I would sincerely like to see them achieved.

I also sincerely hope that when the list is finished, it will include some way to achieve the objectives, and have demands met.

Thanks again.
:hi:

[cui bono]

42. I wish I could be enthusiastic about this list since I'm coming home to L.A. soon...

but it seems too much of a mish mash for me, a bunch of seemingly disconnected stuff.

Where's tax the rich, tax the corporations? I don't think stop the wars should be #1, that isn't the crux of OWS.

Where's regulation? How about a tax on every trade? Breaking up "too big to fail" companies? Restore Glass-Steagall?

The main thing for me is getting Wall Street and other major corporations to play fair and to not own the government. Most of these issues don't address that, and most would be taken care of if the government actually represented the people's wishes.

So, the first thing to do is get government to not be beholden to the rich. The first thing is to change the whole system so that cannot happen any more. This list fails to do that.

Man, I'm disappointed. This list misses the mark for me so much I'm feeling deflated.

I think Occupy Los Angeles needs to take a back seat to the rest of the Occupy movement at this point. They should NOT put out a list of demands like this, it just makes the whole thing look sloppy and unfocused.

PLEASE ask them to reconsider making this list "official" in any way.

:(

[flamingdem]

51. I agree. I wanted to be a part of it but not if they continue with those demands

It just looks like more of the same from Los Angeles groups that front fringe organizations with an agenda that is not broad enough to appeal to average people.

They have never gotten anywhere before looks like they hijacked occupyLA

Mostly I agree that the list is not about the necessary focus... it proves what the msm has been saying LACK OF FOCUS blah blah.
what a shame

[coalition_unwilling]

59. Do you live in a city with an Occupy encampment? I ask, b/c I think

you would profit from visiting one in person.

There ahs been no 'hijacking' - this is a list of 'PRELIMINARY DEMANDS' not a set of proposals that have been deliberated and voted upon by the GA.

Real democracy is messy. I'm sorry that real democracy does not conform to the MSM's need for 'focus' (whatever the fuck that means).

[flamingdem]

68. Real Democracy is not a grouping of fringe interest organizations nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

78. "...fringe..."

You sure like using that word a lot. Don't like what you see? Then get your damned ass down there and participate instead of bitching about it here and about those of us who are trying to mae change.

BTW, I am no Ron Paul supporter and I agree with nine out of ten of those.

[flamingdem]

84. One thing to realize

not all of us are going to be able to participate for a variety of reasons. So that's why we opine on places like DU. I bet a small percent of DU expounders really do much for OWS

[U4ikLefty]

134. Answer the question. Do you live in a city with an Occupy encampment?

[coalition_unwilling]

58. I've said this many times already. This is a 'preliminary list' of

demands. None of them have been presented as proposals to the General Assembly, there has been no deliberation, debate or discussion, and there have been no votes taken.

The right wing has been bloviating, saying the Occupy Movement is incapable of verbalizing its grievances. This list directly refutes that point. I offered it to DU as a public service and to stimulate discussion.

I'm sorry if you feel deflated. I promise that you will feel re-flated if you attend OLA just once.

This list is not "OFFICIAL" in any way. But I consider myself a journalist and Occupy Los Angeles stands 100% behind transparency. If you disagree with the list, get involved with the Demands and Objectives Committee, FFS. Your voice is equal to anyone else's on that Committee and at GA. Isn't that (one man, one vote) what representative democracy is all about?

[flamingdem]

61. It sounds like OccupyLA has too many special interest political groups

Sadly that will not attract people like me, it sounds like a waste of time, believe me I've been there done that with that kind of activism. I was hoping for something with a chance in hell, this looks fringe now.

How about sticking to the focus on jobs and economic injustice? That's enough for now

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Good bye then

:-)

I know this direct democracy is scary.

[flamingdem]

65. Sorry. Poor response from you. I'm not "scared" just critical, who can't handle it? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. I know who can't

This is making sausage in the raw.

You said you don't want to take part. That's cool.

Me, will continue to report. This train left the station back in the Spring. It's global, it's not party specific, and understandably it's adopting some things that go far a long while back, as INITIAL proposals. A few of them will die off.

[flamingdem]

73. I'm unhappy with LA

I see smarter moves by other occupy groups. I have high hopes for NY and Oakland still. I was hoping that LA would be a good one but that remains to be seen and as you can see here the Ron Paul crowd has infiltrated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Alas they are part of the 99%

And in direct democracy they get one vote....

As to the fed is not just Ron Paul. Them are a few serious economists who have suggested it needs reforms. Such as, public and audits. Paul Krugman and Stieglitz do come to mind.

Agree to disagree on this

(I will add this at one point OWS will need a national meeting with delegates, read on committees of correspondence...same dynamic, different century).

[flamingdem]

82. Ron Paul represents the 1% - Rand Paul is Mr. Teaparty

I dont' think we need any coalitions with the teaparty.

Agree to disagree too! I know I'm going a bit nuts over this but I wanted occupyLA to be more
about unions and working people and less about political interest groups... sigh

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. But the supporters are like family of mine

99%. They just don't het why.

Even hartmman makes this point often.

And yes, I might be naive, but we can break through the propaganda.

[coalition_unwilling]

79. A serious question for you: would you deny the Ron Paul

supporters an equal voice to anyone else there? If so, you are privileging certain voices over others. The hard block prevents any measure which would threaten solidarity from being advanced.

[flamingdem]

81. Yes I would deny the Ron Paul supporters a voice. Ron Paul is a racist demagog

and a 1% supporter ALL THE WAY

[coalition_unwilling]

85. But Ron Paul's supporters (for the most part) are part of the

99%, n'est-ce pas? Are you going to deny them a co-equal voice? If so, on what grounds that don't replicate the idelogy of the ancien regime?

[flamingdem]

87. Be my guest making nice with the teaparty while you're at it nt

[flamingdem]

91. they are political manipulator's - do you want to repeat mistakes of the left?

like being controlled by fringe groups? This will turn off many Americans

[coalition_unwilling]

95. I'm sorry to say that, despite your screen name, you are profoundly

anti-democratic (please do note the lower-case 'd' used here). You would deny the principle and soundness of 'one man, one vote' because you claim to have some special insight into the Truth. Well, that's just another way of saying that you are willing to institutionalize privilege and it franly makes you little better than the 1%. Different type of privilege, but privilege nonetheless.

John Stuart Mill, in his seminal "On Liberty," wrote that the surest corrective for 'bad' (meaning 'erroneous') speech is more speech. I would urge you to put your money and body where your mouth is and head to your nearest Occupy encampment. While I cannot promise it, I can almost guarantee that you and your views will be received warmly and with open arms. But do be prepared for push-back from your fellow Occupiers. It is civil discourse at its finest.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

80. If you don't see "economic justice" in most of those demands --

then I think you need glasses. Seriously.

[cui bono]

67. I will be down there for sure! I'm working in NYC right now and have

participated here, you can see my journal for my Occupy Times Square weekend report. I went down the first weekend but didn't post my pics of that cuz I was so tired. By the time I could get around to it it was old news.

You did ask for opinions, so I gave mine. Sorry if you felt it was too harsh. By the same token I don't see the need for your "FFS" as if I'm simply an armchair critic.

We all want the same outcome and I hope I get to meet you down there one day after the 14th! :hi:

[coalition_unwilling]

116. I do apologize for the 'FFS' - think I was reacting to your use of

the word 'deflated' when Occupy Los Angeles just passed its 30-day birthday on this past Sunday. It's too soon to feel deflated, I would say. But I do apologize whole-heartedly for my intemperance and incivility.

[cui bono]

120. No problem, thanks for the post. I apologize if my criticism got you down.

I could've said it in a more constructive way. It's important to remain positive and thanks for making that point with me. I'm re-inflated!

[JDPriestly]

60. Great list.

With regard to the Patriot Act.

It is especially important that the government be prohibited from reading, eavesdropping or listening in on political communications by citizens of the US.

It is also imperative that the government be prohibited from reading, eavesdropping or listening in on attorney-client privileged communications. The streaming of internet communications, wiretapping without a specific warrant, etc., of American citizens in and out of the country is a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment.

My political speech is none of the US government's business even though it is absolutely harmless and supportive of the Constitution and everything our Forefathers fought for. It's the principle of the thing.

My ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812 and the Civil War among others did not fight for Homeland Security or for their own safety.

They risked their safety, their lives to fight for the ideals of freedom, independence, respect for every human being, the right to vote in free elections, the end of slavery, a fair tax system, a fair chance for all, and against aristocracy, plutocracy and monopolies.

They were all immigrants, albeit long ago. Theirs is the America that I believe in. They are the reason I am on DU.

I have the right to speak my mind and share my thoughts without government surveillance. So do all peaceful citizens.

[coalition_unwilling]

96. A DUer upthread said there were portions of the Patriot Act he

thought were worth retaining. I asked what they were and why, but he has not responded yet.

There have been so many outrages since the passage of the Patriot Act that I have almost forgotten why I thought it so vile to begin with. I'll be looking forward to the debate on its repeal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. FISA except been abused.

It was passed originally after the abuses of the '70s. That be the only part...takes CIA out of NYPD.

[TygrBright]

72. Reaction

#1: Ummmm.... yeah. Good luck with that.

#2: Bingo. Clear, direct, achievable, relevant. Let's do it and do it now.

#3: Problematic: Some military spending is, in effect, a social program. Here in New Mexico where there are no jobs in many rural communities, a hitch in the military is the only way "out" for young people. This objective might be possible over a long event horizon with many phases of changeover, but it is unrealistic as something that "the Man," or even "we the People" could achieve in less than a couple of generations.

#4: Possible. There needs to be more analysis and detail to identify potential downsides and unintended consequences that could turn and bite us, but overall the INTENT of this one should be do-able.

#5: Bingo. Clear, direct, achievable, relevant, and LOCAL. The best demand of the bunch.

#6: Good, but tough. Might be better to "replace" the NSA with something based in Constitutional principles that will still provide us with the means to prevent foreign and domestic terrorism from being effective against us. A medium-horizon demand, but do-able with the will.

#7: Also good, but tough. Without a little more thought and specificity, this has the potential to incite intra-movement conflict. Again, I'd focus on "replacing" the Fed, over a medium-horizon timeline.

#8: Bingo. Clear, direct, achievable, relevant, and POWERFUL. This is the one I want most.

responsively,
Bright

[coalition_unwilling]

97. I agree that #5 is the most specific and therefore the easiest to

accomplish in the relative short term. And even it will not be easy, by any stretch, as the LA County Board of Supervisors (who have jurisdiction over the LA County Sheriff's Dept) are not as responsive to political pressure as, say, city councilmen.

#3 - you're really advocating a 'poverty draft' if you're saying that the military is the 'only way out.' Abu Ghraib torturer Lyndie England said that the reason she joined the Army was that there were no jobs other than WalMart within a 60-mile radius of where she grew up. A program of massive government spending on domestic infrastructure that got its funding from funds diverted from the Pentagon would give those rural youngsters a way out that did not involve militarism and the poverty draft. Just a thought, but I definitely appreciate your perspectives.

[TygrBright]

102. I'm not "advocating" anything. I'm pointing out that the "poverty draft" EXISTS, and

...that until we can come up with viable alternatives and viable replacements for the social functions currently facilitated by the military, we will not be able to divert any substantial fraction, much less the totality, of military spending into social spending.

Me, I'd prefer to beat those swords into ploughshares. I'm a Friend. But I'm well aware of how many communities in America have some military base or military function as the majority, if not the totality, of their economic structure. You tell those communities that the military spending is going away, without having a very good explanation of how the diverted funding will continue to support those communities, and your movement will grind to a halt right there.

I'm not saying #3 shouldn't be a goal, nor that it is unachievable. I'm just saying that it is not short-term and well-defined enough to be a viable "demand" that can be presented to (presumably) those with the power to grant the demand.

patiently,
Bright

[coalition_unwilling]

109. Got it. I think I misconstrued your original post a bit. Definitely

agree that #3 is not short term and that careful consideration will have to be given to the economic dislocations bound to occur when a diversion from military spending does occur.

These 'demands' are preliminary only and have not been voted upon by the OLA General Assembly. But, in giving everyone a 'sense' of the OLA community right now, I thought they were very interesting.

[Pigheaded]

77. Disagree on # 4

But I think people should be able to walk away without penalty.

PH

[coalition_unwilling]

98. Yeah, #4 makes me a little uneasy too. Again, this is a preliminary

list of demands and not a finalized set of proposals for deliberation and a vote up or down.

But see #5 for a possible compromise position.

I think the impetus behind #4 and #5 is that the situation with the popping real estate bubble and the concomitant recession is so FUBAR that no one should be thrown out a home until the social contract is tweaked significantly. But now I've exceeded my warrant, as I do not know the motives of those promulgating the demands.

[xiamiam]

150. people can walk away..but they want to stay...and no one is helping them do that

a tsunami hit us...the stress of losing your home or being faced with losing your home is obscene..at this point it should have been fixed..the subprimes already lost..now its anyone who lives in america..anyone..yourself included unless you own free and clear

[loyalsister]

90. It's a start

But they should focus. If this is about economic justice, the war and patriot act demands are red herrings. ie. Would protestors accept meeting economic demands when the money comes from a different source? Would it be acceptable to end the wars and use the money for a bailout?
If one can be met without the other, they should decide which to pursue.

There plenty of merit to the others although they should decide on local vs. national demands. I hope very much that #7 is omitted.

[coalition_unwilling]

100. I share your opinion about #7 and will hard block if I have to, in order

to prevent its being reported out of the GA by consensus. I suspect, based on comments I heard on Saturday's discussion at the beginning of the General Assembly, that any specific proposal calling for an end to the Fed will quickly be hard-blocked into oblivion and the proposal tabled indefinitely. Yes, there are a contingent of Ron Paul acolytes there who are well organized. But they are a tiny minority of the Occupiers taken as a whole.

[bigtree]

92. good move

Give folks more to advocate for than the anti-government homilies that characterize so many of the protest decrees.

[coalition_unwilling]

101. Yes. I published the OP here today to give people something to

throw in the faces of right-wingers when those RWers claim that the Occupiers don't know what they're protesting for. It's total utter bullshit, as this list demonstrates. We may not agree on all of the demands -- I have serious objections to #7, for example -- but we do have demands and we are not going away until they are given due consideration.

[Fire Walk With Me]

99. This is the first time I've heard of the National Security Act and I don't really undestand

"the fed" but I strongly agree with the other requests. It's my responsibility to learn on my own about the two I don't understand.

Thanks for the report, feel better soon!

[Drew Richards]

104. Repeal the fed?

That is ridiculous.

That is a non-starter demand and not worthy of an occupy platform.

GIve me a break...

The entire problem with Wall Street can be found in the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLB), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 gutting and repealing the Glass-Stegall act that protected us from banks and investment firms gambling with our money instead of their own...

This is what should be on the platform.

Repeal Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act
reinstate Glass-Stegall act

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Preliminary list. Think of this as bill

Not passed yet.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

108. Then git yer ass down to an Occupy --

and make yourself heard. :shrug: That is the only way it is going to change.

[coalition_unwilling]

110. I concur and do so the extent that I am willing to hard block any

proposal calling for an end to the Fed. I agree with your assessment, btw, and hope you are making your well-informed views known to your local Occupy encampment.

[rug]

111. I'm glad #1 is #1.

[coalition_unwilling]

113. That makes two of us! - n/t

[GreenArrow]

114. Ending the Drug war

is one I'd add, though it may be incorporated in number one.

[coalition_unwilling]

121. You know, now that you mention it, I honestly do not know. I am

going to be sure to pass along your suggestion this Saturday or Sunday. Thanks for catching it!

[GreenArrow]

126. My pleasure! n/t

.

[Sgent]

115. Get Rid of #5

I'd much rather neutral personnel carryout court orders than blackwater or the like.

[Luminous Animal]

117. This list is naive in the extreme.

To whom are you appealing? Your Los Angeles representatives and California Senators in Congress?

How do you propose to convince/compel them to take up any one of those issues and have the clout to get any bill introduced let alone passed to address them?

Most Democrats and liberals have been advocating for most of that list for a decade and more. They've (in hope) have elected Democrats to address them and that has not worked. So how what kind of structure and apparatus do you propose to accomplish any of those goals?

[coalition_unwilling]

122. I find naivete is part of the Occupy Movement's strength. It starts

from a position that most of what we take for granted is again open to question.

Personally, myself, I'd like to see a new Labor Party come out of the Occupy Movement, dedicated to representing the interests of the working class. That's a long-term hope.

These are 'preliminary demands' not finalized proposals that have been agreed upon by the Los Angeles GA.

That said, #5 seems to me one that may be realized more quickly than others. To wit, getting a proposal before the LA County Board of Supervisors to order Sherriff Baca to cease and desist in all foreclosure actions seems possible right now, albeit not probable.

I am not appealing to anyone. This is the work of the Demands and Objectives Committee and I publsiehd it simply so that people at DU, both supporters and nay-sayers, would understand that demands are being formulated.

[Luminous Animal]

135. You may not be appealing to anyone but, in order for demands to addressed, there must be

recourse. Currently, there is no recourse so any demand is a hollow gesture.

People must understand the problem first in order for them to come up with solutions. The Declaration of Independence was a list of grievances... 11 years later, the Constitution was the solution.

I feel like a list of demands offers a solution to problems the majority of people do not even quite understand. That is, the problems should be articulated through a prolonged public education campaign and then people, through robust discussion, entrusted with the responsibility of coming up with solutions.

[coalition_unwilling]

137. I take your point for sure (that demands should come out of a shared

sense of grievance born of discourse and consensus and not spring fully-formed like Athena from the head of Zeus).

I believe there is a statement of grievances that significantly pre-dates this list of preliminary demands from Occupy Los Angeles, although I am no expert in the exact chronology of grievances-demands.

*****************

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one's skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless nonhuman animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

**********************************

http://www.gerritbotha.com/sustainable-living-blog/ows-declaration-grievances.html

I feel like I'm not really addressing your concerns at this point (perhaps too much cold medicine? :), but maybe this declaration from New York City is what you were expecting?

[Luminous Animal]

139. I am aware of that list and I think it is great and a wonderful jumping point for

a robust public discussion of solutions.

I do appreciate the effort to a produce a list of demands but I feel like it is jumping the gun. It seems top down to me and that OWS should enlist an aware critical mass of the citizenry to agitate their grievance and then to come up with solutions.

History tells us that this is the most successful model to the most mundane (bike lanes) to sweepingly critical (civil rights).

[coalition_unwilling]

140. I'm going to try to put in an appearance at D&O this coming

weekend (if it doesn't conflict inexorably with Facilitation where I will be making a formal proposal to ensure the safety of those speaking before the GA). If I make it to D&O, I am going to try to surface your observations, as they seem of crucial importance.

N.B. I published this list of demands simply to give DUers who are pounded about how Occupy doesn't know what it wants something to punch back with if they so chose. The act of publishing the list has surfaced concerns like yours that transcend the list itself and that were entirely unanticipated by me. But the discussion has, I think, proved invaluable, if only to put the brakes on impetuous actions.

[Luminous Animal]

141. Thank you for the discussion. I really appreciate what you do here on DU and your

commitment to OWS. And I appreciate that you've taken the time to listen to me.

[redgiant]

118. You asked...

To whom are the demands addressed?

What is the deadline for compliance? Immediately? Get real.

What will happen if the demands are met?

What will happen if the demands are partially met?

What will happen if the demands are not met?



1) Stop the wars

Never going to happen immediately. They'll wind down as the situation allows

2) Repeal the Patriot Act

Not likely

3) Divert military spending to social programs

Won't happen

4) Declare a moratorium on all residential foreclosures

Not likely

5) Prohibit LA County personnel, e.g., Sheriff's deputies, from assisting in any foreclosure actions

Not likely

6) Repeal the National Security Act

Won't happen

7) Repeal the Federal Reserve Act

Won't happen

8) End Corporate 'Personhood'

Not likely

[coalition_unwilling]

123. Oy vey. Did you bother to read the responses that came before

yours on this thread before sharing your pearls of wisdom? No matter. I've seen you on a different thread, casting aspersions on Occupy Oakland as purveyors of violence, and I suspect your stay here will be very short-lived.

[redgiant]

129. Why?

Enforced orthodoxy?

(I can be repetitive, also)

Is support of all aspects of OWS a requirement for membership on DU?

[coalition_unwilling]

130. I give up. Welcome to my Ignore list - n/t

[xiamiam]

151. dont take any of your assumptions to the bank..we are in a new time

and just about anything can and most probably will happen..not without difficulty..people have had it and the old way of doing things will come to an end..why?..because we believe it will..many of us and that train is moving down the track and impossible to stop

[We are Devo]

124. Public financing of elections..

That was missing, right? Getting money out should be a main priority.

[coalition_unwilling]

125. I'll make sure it is passed along. Think it may be subsumed somewhat

under Demand #8 (to end 'corporate personhood'), but will pass along just in case. Thanks for the catch!

[Drew Richards]

128. OK here is MY List Drew Richards List of OWS Demands.

1. Repeal Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act reinstate Glass-Stegall and Regulation Q

2. Enact sweeping power to the CFPB to arrest, fine, seize assets and prosecute violations of the 1986 fair trade act.

3. End all foreign aggression and recall all troops to established bases or home bases.

4. Slash the Pentagon military budget by 1/3rd and invest monies in infrastructure jobs.

5. Freeze for two years ALL foreign aid AND foreign subsidies to other "industrialized" countries. (for example we borrow 2 trillion from China and send them 320 billion in foreign aid? WTF)

6. Repeal the entire Patriot Act and re-institute FISA regulations on all surveillance.

7. Repeal Citizen United decision. Abolish corporate person-hood via constitutional amendment that was established from the partisan Supreme Court's decision in Citizens United.

8. Institute judicial code of conduct for Supreme Court justices that ALL other justices in the country are required to adhere to.

9. Immediately repeal Bush tax cuts and increase taxes back to tax rate of Reagan's last two years of his presidency. (bigger even than Clinton's)

10. Discontinue all subsidies to raw material energy suppliers (coal, oil, gas), and energy producing facilities and corporations (plants and their parent corporations).

11. Establish Single-Payer Open enrollment to Medicare and Medicaid with a co-pay flex rate for pre-existing conditions.

[coalition_unwilling]

131. Drew, this is a wonderful list. Are you close to any particular

Occupy encampment? If so, you should share with them, as I can see you have put some careful thought into this. (I saw your other thread too, btw :)

Thank you for not repeating the 'Repeal the Fed' clap-trap in Occupy Los Angeles' preliminary list :)

[Drew Richards]

138. I am close to the Occupy Washington group but

Unfortunately I am not in contact with anyone and cannot leave my home presently.

Sadly I am taking care of an ill parent and hospice is not in the picture yet to give me a break.

Once I get them in I will be spending some time at the protests at freedom park or mcpherson square.

[U4ikLefty]

136. Take note of the people crapping on the moment. They are part of the problem.

They are the hecklers that carry the 1%'s water.

[bigtree]

146. this is how it starts, isn't it? Where do you draw the line for supporters?

The 1% were originally rich folks, bankers and the like. Now you want a new category of 1%ers to include critics.

If you start including everyone who disagrees with parts of your platforms in your protest, you've lost the genius of your dissent against the money men (and women). The movements should be about coalescing, not cliqueing. For the life of me, I don't see how a movement is threatened by folks asking questions or looking for clarity of purpose from organizers.

I would think the movement participants welcome the opportunity to clarify their intentions and would work to draw folks into the fold, not stretching for nitpicking reasons to exclude those citizens looking in who might have misgivings about aligning with the movement.

The protests are now benefiting from a solidarity among participants from many disparate circumstances who feel threatened and disadvantaged by Wall Street's moneygrubbing ways. That's a pretty broad spectrum of Americans and it shows at the occupations and rallies. You start narrowing your appeal and you'll end up narrowing your support. Something to consider, perhaps.

[AZ Progressive]

142. I'm sorry, but the Occupy Movement should focus on the corporate - political corruption

Focus on things that the majority of Americans can agree on or at least which is not based purely on opinion. Yes everyone has their issues that they want to have resolved, but the root of most of everything in this country is corporate and rich people's power and their control over the political system.

Here's what I would include in a list of demands:

1. Bring back the Glass Steagall Act (not only separating commercial from investment banks but also will allow usury laws to be enforced on banks)

2. Repeal the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (responsible for the derivatives market and gambling of oil prices on the NYMEX)

3. For the Federal Government to enforce the Sherman Antitrust act and for it to put teeth back into the regulatory arms of the executive branch and vastly increase their budgets

4. End corporate personhood by Amending the 14th amendment to say "natural person" rather than "person" in Section 1

5. Have the tax code rewritten to deny tax breaks and exemptions on the highest income bracket and create a new bracket for millionaires.

6. All federal elections are to be publicly funded and private donations are banned.

7. Declare Election Day a national holiday (where everyone must have the day off to encourage voting.)

[flamingdem]

144. Great list. Please post separately to get feedback.

Welcome to DU! :)

[coalition_unwilling]

145. Wonderful list and welcome to DU! Are you anywhere near a

local Arizona encampment? If so, I would recommend paying a visit in person with your list, as I can see you have placed a lot of thought and care into it.

If you have no objections, I will take your list to the Los Angeles' D&O Committee this weekend.

[nedbojo]

147. THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please clarify this fact to your readers. There are many discussions going on and none of these have even made it out of research yet. It's quite disingenuous of you to have published this list. Though you say it's "under consideration" I believe you should be more explicit about the fact that these are just up for discussion and HAVE NOT been presented to the GA for consensus.
Thank you,
Nathan

[xuzi]

148. NOT APPROVED

hi coalition_unwilling,

I appreciate you coming down to OccupyLA and attending the objectives / demands committee meeting, but I'm afraid you have completely misunderstood our process. I am an active daily participant in this committee. These preliminary demands were simply the demands we were discussing that day in preparation for passing them along to our RESEARCH committee for more background. They are NOT APPROVED OR AGREED UPON in any way other than to pursue getting more research on them. They in no way represent the full scope of demands being discussed, or even the most prevalent of the demands we've received in our open solicitation process. Please do not misrepresent this -- and I would appreciate a correction / update in your original post. The person who reported them to GA did so without the agreement / understanding of the full committee as to what he would be reporting.

thank you!
Suzanne

[xiamiam]

149. i like the list..great place to start..nt