The solution to the nation’s health care crisis is staring everyone in the face.

[Better Believe It]

Health Care Solution is Simple: Single-Payer
by Dave Zweifel
November 3, 2011

The answer to the nation’s health care crisis is staring everyone in the face, yet as a country we continue to refuse to come to grips with it.

It is far from rocket science. What this country simply needs is a single-payer national health insurance program that covers all American citizens from the day they’re born to the day they die — just as other advanced countries have done for decades.

So what we have today is a system that costs Americans nearly double the cost of single-payer national health insurance — in short, Medicare for all — in countries like England, France, Germany, Canada and even China.

We could finance health care coverage for every American by taking the resources that employees and employers are pumping into the current broken system and still have money left over for a substantial tax cut, not to mention that it would put U.S. employers back on a level playing field with their competitors in the world market.

Read the full article at:

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/dave_zweifel/article_e26dbb61-a1d2-5a03-86b6-ff2e6524596f.html

[HughBeaumont]

1. Simple answer why we won't:

If there's one thing the 1%ers who rule America don't do, it's step on each other's toes. Anything that affects even cent ONE of anyone's profits . . . verboten. Big Pharma and Big Insurance have such a stranglehold on Washington; single payer is never going to see the light of day.

Competition is for the underlings.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. And they've convinced a HUGE number of people that socialism is evil. That sickens me as much

as anything, the manipulating people into standing against their own best interest.

[indepat]

44. Socialism = evil: unfettered and wholly corrupted capitalism nee fascism=

very, very good. :patriot:

[MODem75]

96. I would rather have Socialism than Fascism

[indepat]

98. In 21st-century America, socialism is bad, very bbbad; fascism, good, very

gggood indeed. :patriot:

[SemperEadem]

64. thankfully

the majority of people who believe that are older and their numbers are thinning out daily. The younger people, by and large, don't see a problem with socialism, especially when it comes to dealing with the greater good, and in that, I am hopeful.

The younger people are less likely to be scared into stupidity thinking like their grandparents were during the "cold war" years.

[Tansy_Gold]

71. You're wrong, absolutely wrong

There is a very healthy and active propaganda machine that recruits and indoctrinates new believers every day. The "older generation" is not dying out at all, at least not without passing on its message to the younger generations coming up.

Never ever ever believe that an idea dies with its adherents. They just pass the message along.


TG

[SemperEadem]

86. I dont' believe I am.

[liberal N proud]

79. The real quandary is why people who are suffering because of our health care support it

It astounds me the people who think we have a great health care system when they are themselves victims of the corporate greed and their bean counter methods of treatment.

[Lorien]

49. Unless WE stop doing business as usual and vote out their puppets

if we keep supporting the "lesser of evils" nothing will change. We DO have a choice.

[HughBeaumont]

50. Well, yeah, we have a choice.

We unfortunately just don't have the numbers of convinced voters FOR that choice.

That's a two-part problem: Money in politics, Big Media in politics.

[SemperEadem]

65. I think OWS movement is changing that.

Way too many people are hurting now, more than there were a year ago--Tuesday, wasn't it?-- when those ignorant tea thugs were voted into congress and began the destruction in earnest of this country.

[Vincardog]

88. What Lorien said /\ It is time to quit settling for the "lesser of two evils"

[cui bono]

60. Many years ago I remember hearing that there were companies coming out for single payer,

large ones too, because of the costs to them in paying for their employees' health care. That disappeared. I guess someone "explained" to them why that wasn't a good idea.

[HughBeaumont]

75. See, you know how people tell us . . .

. . . "The notion that all wealthy people are conspiring with each other to rig the system in their favor at the expense of the middle/working/poor is just a myth, a wacky conspiracy theory."

Is it?

http://www.theyrule.net/

[zipplewrath]

2. And yet they weren't "in the room"

The advocates of single payer were literally removed "from the room" during congressional hearings. And our progressive president declared single payer "unworkable" and metaphorically kept them "from the table" during negotiations with the health care industry.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Yep. Gotta love that kind of progressivism. *sigh*

[cui bono]

55. And transparency (he denied it until he could no longer). *sigh*

[DirkGently]

5. Should have started with Medicare for All in the first place. It's coming, b/c there is no choice.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. It's coming? I'd really love to believe that, but cuts to Medicare and

defunding tactics won't allow me too. :shrug:

[DirkGently]

29. Well, a lot of poor & middle-class people may have to die first.

... but we really have no alternative. Insurance premiums cannot continue to go up 20% per year, while the quality of care goes down because providers are being strangled at the other end. We're already close to a point where no one really has meaningful healthcare, unless they fall under some special provision somewhere, or can flat-out pay for it.

[TE Lawrence]

6. It sounds nice, but what other advanced countries have done for decades

is bankrupting those countries.

When something is "free," no one cares how much is costs or how much they consume. It is unworkable and therefore, not a solution.

[arcane1]

8. What a crock of shit

And what an incredibly lame defense of the status quo :eyes:

[Fumesucker]

10. Better medical care for our people bankrupts us..

Than dropping bombs on other people bankrupts us like what's happening now.

[TE Lawrence]

18. Bomb dropping of late has surely been a stupid policy.

But one stupid policy does not justify another.

[Fumesucker]

21. You're going to get stupid policies no matter what you do..

That's the nature of politics..

Better to optimize the benefit to the public from stupid policies than optimize the harm like the USA is doing now.

[Better Believe It]

45. So policies that benefit working class people and the elderly are stupid.

And economic policies that benefit the economic parasites at the top are really smart.

Where did you read that?

It's all about class.

[Mimosa]

11. LOL

I doubt T.E. Lawrence would have used that right wing talking point.:7

Preventative care keeps costs down.

[TE Lawrence]

20. Preventative care can be an 81mg aspirin per day.

A two year supply is $6 under personal care.

Under single payer it would likely cost $6 per day or more.

[Mimosa]

22. People anywhere can buy their own aspirin

You are a citizen of the UK according to your profile.

Many of us have friends in the UK and/or Canada and have some knowledge of how your systems work. And what the problems are.

Why are you posting against single payer health care systems on a US Democratic liberal board?

You do understand that if and when the US adapts a single payer system for health care it may not be exactly like yours, which is run by 'trusts', some better than others, some not good at all?

[sibelian]

35. We have a very small number of anti-NHS agitators in the UK.

They are small in number and unimpressive.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. I've been to the UK and patronized their pharmacies

There's nothing to prevent people there from buying their own aspirin.

They aren't forced to take it from the NHS.

[sibelian]

34. ...

what?

[cui bono]

57. What? Prove that. n/t

[SemperEadem]

67. he can't... he's talking out of his ass

[barbtries]

61. lol

joke, right? i spent, i don't know, maybe a couple bucks on 1000 aspirin tablets and take one a day. over two years' worth. that's not changing. aspirin is cheap and readily available.

[SemperEadem]

66. got a link to back that up?

[tkmorris]

13. Absolute nonsense

They all spend less per capita on health care than we do. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact. If we adopted a single-payer system we would spend less than we do right now, by a significant amount.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. That is why we spend double per capita than Canada

The closest to us in spending level...

Nice talking point there though...oh and Canadians also have a higher life expectancy too.

[denverbill]

15. That's nutty.

I've had health insurance that was completely free to me before. No copay, no deductibles. But I didn't go to the doctor every day just because it was free. Who would get medical care just because it's free? Why go to the doctor's office and sit around all the people hacking and sneezing if you don't need to go there?

Also, why is healthcare in every one of those countries 1/2 the cost that it is here? And why are we more 'bankrupt' than they are?

[sibelian]

17. I work for the UK National Health Service.

Let us discuss your assertion, you and I.

[moondust]

46. Just curious...

Does the NHS have deterrents built in to prevent unnecessary use/overuse of services?

Thanks!

[sibelian]

54. ???

I don't understand the question? How can you overuse a hospital?

[moondust]

85. Sorry.

I was thinking more along the lines of some people running to the doctor's office for every real or imagined hangnail, sore throat, stomach ache, etc. Hypochondriacs, Munchausen Syndrome, etc. Anything to prevent that?

[Sgent]

89. I just don't see it

I've worked in physician offices where ppl had Medicaid or were dual eligible Medicare/Mediciaid (no co-pay's ever). Out of a 10,000 patient population, we maybe had 3 that were like that, and those 3 could come to the office every day and never incur enough expenses to be a drop in the bucket.

[sibelian]

103. These people exist but are VERY few in number.

Also, it only takes one of them to turn out one day to have a genuine illness to make dangerous. Munchhausen's are known by the system. It's doctors that decide on health care, not private companies.

[librechik]

19. it's not basic benefit to citizens that is bankrupting EU, rather the global financial cartels

just like here.

[Mimosa]

23. ^ True. ^ n/t

[jwirr]

24. Those other countries are not bankrupt because of social programs.

They have corrupt banksters just like us and they made the mistake of following raygun/booosh economics right over the cliff.

[Dems2002]

27. If cheaper healthcare is bankrupting Europe, how is more expensive healthcare helping us???

It's not free, it's paid for by taxes. And it's ridiculous to suggest that healthcare is bankrupting other nations at the same time we're supposedly able to afford 2-10x the costs in America. If cheaper healthcare is hurting Europe, how the hell is more expensive healthcare benefiting our country.

AND, if you support business, why does the US burden its businesses, particularly the smaller companies who don't get sweetheart deals, with forcing them to provide insurance to their workers. Wouldn't it be better for business not to have to provide this benefit?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

30. I completely agree with you. Let's start turning the interstate system into gravel

The Interstate system is clearly not workable, since it's "free", i.e., paid for with our taxes. Thanks for setting me straight, O Visionary.

[area51]

41. Have you ever stopped to notice ...

... that no other country is trying to switch to our style of health care system? It's because ours is inefficient, unworkable, and broken.

[HughBeaumont]

70. +1000.

"The Greatest Health Care System In the World That, Curiously, No Other Country Wants to Emulate."

:rofl:

[Better Believe It]

43. It worked out fine until the capitalists were deregulated.

[reggie the dog]

53. no, the health care is not bankrupting the uk, or france

hell look at denmark, sweden, finland, they are not bankrupt, but they didnt lower taxes on the rich like the governments did in france, the uk, italy, greece. here in france the debt from our health care came about once they lowered the taxes on business owners for health care and didnt increase them on the workers, the fix for it is to raise taxes on business owners again.

[cui bono]

58. I don't think that is correct. Please provide documentation to support your claim.

Countries are being bankrupted at this time because of greedy transnational banking practices. I don't think it has anything to do with health care.

[irislake]

63. BULLSHIT!

[bengalherder]

73. Old TE, grand as he was in WW1, was a bit of a fascist politically

You ain't foolin noone

[ThomThom]

76. deleted

[JackRiddler]

80. An enormous lie.

Some of those countries have been sustaining single-payer universal health care, at half the total cost to GDP as that of health care costs in the United States and with a fraction of the costs going to "administration" (profit), for more than 80 years!

The financial troubles currently in Europe are thanks to the financial fraud and resulting meltdown of 2007-2009, and the fatal decision there to "bail out" the perpetrator institutions (i.e., allow plunder of the national treasuries and the use of central banks as piggy-banks by the private banks), instead of liquidating the TBTEs, prosecuting the criminal class, and starting public banks. European countries, like the USA, capitulated in allowing the banksters to socialize their losses. Private debt passed into public debt, so that now you can parrot the big lie that this is the fault of public spending rather than corporate fraud.

Oh, and welcome to DU, TE Lawrence!

[txlibdem]

99. +1, right on the money, so to speak

The criminal class got their bonuses (because they had a contract) but the union workers didn't get their wages and pensions, even though they also had a contract???

[Deep13]

91. Nonsense.

People do the same thing with corporate insurance. With universal coverage, small problems get stopped cheaply before they become big problems. The lack of prevention is what is bankrupting us.

[defendandprotect]

93. Nonsense -- you're simply talking about the RW starving the system.. and whether starving education.

or starving medical care, it certainly doesn't stabilize or produce good

medicine or good education!!

It simply does the reverse -- !!

[defendandprotect]

94. ... and think we're all pretty clear on who has BAILED OUT whom ... !!!

Elites/corporatists make profits based on exploitation of nature, natural

resoruces, animal life and human labor -- !!

Without Congress/people affording them that privilege, they'd have no profits.

Congress has been corrupted by corporate/elite money and that has to end --

So does the many privileges which have provided those profits --

Exploitation of nature, natural resoruces and animal life ahs to be stopped --


Capitalism has only produced Global Warming and a loss of the planet -- and all nature!

Further, unregulated capitalism -- for which we have our corrupt Congress to thank --

is merely organized crime.


No -- I think the public is pretty clear on who the enemy is and what works and what

doesn't -- capitalism doesn't work -- democratic socialism and communities government

working for the people does!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

95. The problem is government-phobia.

In most of the rest of the first world, the debate is phrased in terms of government *services* - what should it provide, and how.

In the US, the debate is phrased in terms of government *control*; people are terrified of the idea of the government "controlling their health", even if it isn't.

For as long as "big government" remains a dirty word in the US, you're screwed.

[kentuck]

7. The insurance industry has grown too big to fail...

or to change. They must maintain their monopoly.

[truedelphi]

25. Meanwhile, 38,000 people a year die from lack of insurance.

Over 700K Americans face medical related bankrupcy.

The only place where people are well right now is in Vermont!

And that happened because of Vermonters who are not beholden to either party, but vote Independent.

The Democratic Party is as guilty as anyone else for the failure of public option.

[area51]

52. Kicking thread.

And it's actually 100,000 people who die per year due to lack of health care in the U.S..

[Shagbark Hickory]

37. Too big to regulate as well.

[Mimosa]

9. Many companies would hire more people if they didn't have to provide health coverage

Companies would also not discriminate as much against hiring people over age 50 if they didn't have to provide health insurance benefits.

[cui bono]

59. And they wouldn't ask employees about their bowel movements and sex life. n/t

[RC]

12. A sad fact -

"We could finance health care coverage for every American by taking the resources that employees and employers are pumping into the current broken system and still have money left over for a substantial tax cut, not to mention that it would put U.S. employers back on a level playing field with their competitors in the world market."

From the Constitution:

Section 8.
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and PROVIDE FOR THE common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;..."

Twice in our Constitution it mentions "general welfare" What constitutes 'General Welfare'?
The old-age benefits provisions of the Social Security Act of 1935 is an example of providing for the 'general welfare'. Medicaid/Medicare are 2 more examples of providing for the 'general welfare'.

Government controlled, Single Payer, Universal health care for the people of the United States IS covered by the Constitution, because the relative health of our citizens does affect the general welfare of the Nation. 45,000 dead people a year are proof the profit driven, privately run systems we have in place now are not working to provide the necessary health care for our nation.
How can our present private health insurance system, with its many insurance companies (each with its own way of doing things), its own highly paid management, its own attention to the bottom line for its share holders, its own claims requirements, its own forms for submitting claims, etc., be more efficient than any government controlled single Payer system, with its single set of rules and forms?

How can we be the Greatest nation on earth,
if we can't/won't even take care of our own citizens?

[truedelphi]

51. Really admire the way you juxtaposed the Constitution with the OP

And also Admire the citizens of Vermont who actually have Single Payer Universal Health Care.

[undeterred]

16. Get the fucken Republicants out of office.

All they do is block every attempt to solve our country's problems.

[Shagbark Hickory]

38. Can't just blame the retubbies for this one.

There were enough democrats to pass public option even but some of them were bribed to block it.

[Better Believe It]

47. Because in many cases Democratic politicians enable the Republicans to "filibuster" in the Senate

Senator Reid and the Democratic majority have had three years to stop Republican procedural delay tactics (misnamed filibusters) and they have failed to.

[Bobbie Jo]

62. must. defend. republicans.

[dionysus]

69. must.. convince.. DUers to not vote dem...

:rofl:

:hi:

[dotymed]

77. I don't think it is an R or a D thing. I prefer D because they

did lead the fight for the 99% before the corporate takeover of America. I put people before party and honestly, although the majority of both parties seem to be corporate owned, the message of the people on the D side is much more people oriented. The actions, unfortunately, seem to result in the same legislation.

Single payer should have and,IMO, could have been passed if there were not corporate influence of our politicians. Maybe the first hurdle to getting single payer is removing all corporate money from politics. Elections should be publicly financed. This can be done by requiring the media to be good public citizens and give all candidates equal free air-time. Elections can be publicly financed without costing the tax payers extra money, since money seems to be the biggest excuse for not implementing this policy.

Still, the wealthy must pay their fair share of taxes. It is becoming more plain each day that capitalism is a barrier to freedom and humanity.

[slackmaster]

28. That's a wonderfully ambiguous subject line, so it gets an automatic Rec!

I've found that I get very fatigued when I try to stare everyone in the face.

[leftstreet]

32. K&R

[CTyankee]

33. Has Peter O'Toole left the building?

[sibelian]

36. T'would appear so for the time being

If we're discussing the same chap. He avoided me carefully, I've noticed.

[CTyankee]

42. Pity. He was here only so briefly...

[bvar22]

39. That is the ONE FACT that the Democratic Party "Leadership"...

...worked so very hard to prevent the American People from hearing during the "debates".

I'm ALL Fired Up!


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Octafish]

40. Imagine how cool it would be for a Democratic candidate to campaign on that pledge?

How cool would that be? He or she would win! Oh. ...Yoops.

[louslobbs]

48. K&R n/t

Lou

[cui bono]

56. wrong place

[Ozagnaria]

68. TN had a good system for a while

I lived in TN for a few years. When I moved there they had TNCARE, initially it was universal health care for everyone who did not have access to private health insurance, either it was not offered through work, or they couldn't afford it if it was or if they were just unemployed. If you were employed it was offered on a sliding scale. Similar to Taiwan's system. Well over the years it has gotten worse and reduced and changed, I think now it is 10 visits and covers care if you have major problems (cancer etc) to a point. The biggest problem with it was mismanagement and fraud. These two issues were the biggest problems that cause funding short falls and caused the system to change.

Honestly I don't see why we can't have both systems (public and private- they way it was in TN) in place. Their initial model should have been looked at and refined, if people were looking for a national model, instead of what we got.
I thought it was a brilliant system.

Side note, In TN just to give TN some props: when I moved there in the late 1990's the min wage in TN was 7.25 an hour unemployment was alway under or around 4% -even until the 2009's, they have no state income tax, no property tax on cars, no property tax in the county I lived in on the 1st 70K of your house, the sales tax was 9%, but not on food or clothes, the state government is a pay go system and does not deal in credit for their funding, single, married, gay, straight, could foster and adopt children -side note when I left our kinship foster care placement in my county was over 70% - so these children removed from their parents were placed with relatives or family friends- it was a neat weird place- hopefully it still is.

[DLine]

72. But TORT reform will fix EVERYTHING

Stop letting those greedy Liberal lawyers sue doctors and that will fix all of our skyrocketing healthcare costs.

-Tommy McTeabagger


:sarcasm:

[tcaudilllg]

74. Actually, it's all a distraction

We do need single payer care, I agree, but part of the solution is also more medical schools and more doctors.

[valerief]

78. How do we get a Congress that will vote for it? The 1% own not only the Congress

but the secret software electronic voting machines that get their whores elected.

[harun]

81. Multi-step process. First step is over turning Citizen's United.

There are a lot more steps after that though.

[valerief]

83. So the SCOTUS owned by the 1% will overturn Citizens United? I want to see that work but I'm not

holding my breath. Then again, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[harun]

97. SCOTUS won't touch it. It will take other means.

[valerief]

100. But if Citizens United is overturned, SCOTUS will turn it back. nt

[harun]

102. Not if it is with a Constitutional Amendment.

[aggiesal]

82. Without reading everyone's input ...

When I come across an anti-Single Payer advocate, I shoot
down every one if their arguments.

It costs too much - Compared to the price we're currently paying for personal health insurance, we could pay
1/3 into a national plan, and get better coverage with money left over.

We pay for the undocumented alien - As compared to currently paying for the uninsured we come out way ahead.

The wait to see a doctor is too long - Really? Have you tried getting an appointment under your current system?
I takes 3-6 months before I'm able to get an appointment with my primary care physician. What's the difference?

It's socialized medicine - Really? Do you know what socialism is, or you just a parrot for the RW talking heads?

blah, blah ,blah.

It time to get single-payer.

[BigD_95]

84. there is too much money

to lie to people to let the "Simple" happen.

[Ozagnaria]

87. cost?

I wonder, and I am going to try and see what I can find out, but I really wonder what the percentages are for the amount money being spent on health care in this country is. Like , how much of all the moneys in the entire industry is spent on advertising and marketing to doctors etc, (penicillin was a great drug but I don't remember seeing commercials for it when I was a kid and my obgyn has free lunch every day for employees at her office provided by drug reps), lobbying the government and various politicians, employee costs - salaries, benefits etc, administration- paperwork, lawsuits and so on versus direct care costs for the patient. I would also like to know how much money is coming out of individual pockets, tax revenues and companies pockets.

I think there is a lot on mis-information, bad information and incomplete information out there. It is like arguing about what something is when half of it is hidden in a box.

Honestly whats the big frigg'n deal about getting the real numbers, sitting down and starting from scratch to make something that works for everyone? yeah, greed, personal power, blah blah blah, I really am over it all, most people are....for how many years I can't even count the people I have known who walked around talking universal health care R and D's - but the people on the streets are nothing like the people in office) and how they pay taxes into a system but can't use it...well....then...here we go and now....what happens ...big ol hot mess.

[Deep13]

90. That's a necessary part of the solution.

Another necessary part is controlling disease.

[defendandprotect]

92. Think Americans have no problem understanding that -- it's politicians ignoring will of the people !

Also have to say that this deterioration in health care isn't only based on

lack of affordability -- for either the care or the insurance -- it's also a

deterioration in the medical training and the doctors it's produced!!



GP's and Dentists -- tough to find a decent one --

GP's were turned into "pill poppers" long ago but Big Pharma has really taken them

over now!


And yet despite the fact that we're about the sickest nation on the planet, Americans

somehow continue to think that we have good health care -- ???? YIKES!!!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

101. I'd like to see a Constitutional amendment

making healthcare a right, not a privilege. It's as essential to the life of the citizenry as military protection.