Occupy Oakland is trying to figure out how to deal with destructive vandalism

[pnwmom]

I hope they succeed. If they don't, the could quickly lose support of many in the community who are otherwise on their side.

http://www.mercurynews.com/occupy-oakland/ci_19255461


12:30 p.m. Anti-vandalism proposal to go to full camp meeting

Campers have reached an anti-vandalism consensus and will likely return to how to stop the vandals at tonight's 6 p.m. general assembly for a vote. They are currently voting on when/how to apologize to business owners.

Milani, a camper who did not want to give a last name, spoke against apologizing to businesses. She said it wasn't just outsiders committing vandalism.

"The person I saw putting toilet paper up, they're a facilitator at the general assembly. The person spray painting, they're on the events committee."

Another camper disagreed, and proposed starting a "good neighbor" committee

[Auggie]

1. Turn them over the cops

[meow2u3]

2. Simple: pressure the PTB to quit planting agents provocateurs

That'll solve the vandalism problem in no time.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. there really are CRAZY ultra-leftist groups who actually believe in violence

and think that turning peaceful demonstrations violent will somehow or other in their crazy view of the world lead to a social revolution and make wonderful things happen.

I recall more than 25 years ago when living in San Francisco there was group called the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP) who would go to peaceful anti-war demonstrations and try to provoke violence. They wouldn't listen to the monitors and peace keepers from the protest organizers because they considered the protest organizers "class collaborators" and just as much enemies as the right-winger Republicans. They really did believe in causing violence in their crazy mixed up strategy of how they thought things should be done. They were not cops. They were not working for the police. They were just nuts and impossible to reason with.

[2pooped2pop]

25. couldn't you imagine the world they would have us live in?

First off, thinking we can take on the US police forces/military is just a juvenile thought isn't it? So are most of their actions. THey are threatening to stop the revolution they supposedly want so badly, with petty little crimes. Juvenile actions. The ones of these I have run into are quite young and easily molded. Let's hope we can win some of them over to our peaceful solution.

In the meantime, perhaps we don't confront them, or do but back off with resistance, and everyone not involved sit down to show they are not part of those guys? I don't know, but I hope the camps are brainstorming some good ideas.

[Sportsguy]

20. Exactly (nt)

[EC]

3. Have they been getting contributions like OWS has?

Maybe hire security to secure the disrupters and hand them over to the cops? There must be a way to identify these guys and disavow their deeds. Just like the Canadian utube where they pulled the mask off one and he was a cop. De-mask them.

[leftstreet]

4. Interesting that Wall Street doesn't have this problem, but Oakland does. Hmm

You'd start wondering if it was deliberate

[Courtesy Flush]

5. Interesting chain of events

Cops brutalize protesters.

They're ordered to stop, citing that no laws are being broken.

Bang! All of a sudden, laws start being broken.

It's obvious what they're doing.

[hootinholler]

9. Ding Ding Ding n/t

[FarCenter]

7. The black bloc is not interested in the occupy tactic; marches, demonstrations give them opportunity

Large crowd movement is the problem.

[beltanefauve]

10. New York City

has different laws. In NY, it is illegal to cover your face. This law goes back over 100 years ago and started during a labor strike. You also can't use wood for your picket signs in NYC; cardboard tubes only.
I learned all this while protesting at the 2004 GOP convention. :)

[doc03]

6. All of the ones I have seen have their faces covered, if you are

trying to hide your identity you are most likely up to no good. I don't mean people who are doing it because of gas. I have seen many pictures of peaceful crowds and there will be people with their face covered, toss their ass out.

[Luminous Animal]

14. Some peaceful protestors also cover their faces. They do not want their bosses

to find out.

[2pooped2pop]

8. masks down rule

until the threat of gas. That would make them show their face which the don't want to do, or leave.

If they are cops, they will not want to be seen.

[Luminous Animal]

15. And your boss sees a picture of you on Facebook and yer fired! Lots of peaceful

protesters wear scarves to preserve personal livelihood.

[2pooped2pop]

24. never thought of that. n/t

[MrSlayer]

11. Citizen's arrests and handover to police.

It's odd how there are never any police around when these guys do their destructive bullshit. Film them doing it, detain them for doing it, hand them and the videos over to the cops. Problem solved.

[Luminous Animal]

13. The Black Bloc arms themselves with weapons. Just how do you propose peaceful protesters

detain them?

[MrSlayer]

17. They outnumber them many times over.

You could detain Bruce Lee with enough people.

[Luminous Animal]

19. Only if you get physical which is against OWS philosphy and goals.

And also, I am disturbed by the notion that OWS be turned into a policing agency. We pay taxes for just that. OWS is not responsible for policing these people. Similarly, I am not responsible for the person who is breaking into houses in the neighborhood. I can do whatever I can to assist the police (neighborhood watch, etc.) but I certainly will not accept the responsibility of arresting and detaining him/her.

[annm4peace]

22. you have the most critical thinking answer I have read

we can not control other people. OWS and other Occupations have said they are non Violent.

[MrSlayer]

23. Well I would do it.

This is insanity. Suppose someone was attempting to rape or assault another person at OWS? You would do nothing since it goes against "philosophy"? Because it's "not your job"? Stop the assholes from making you look like an asshole seems to be the better philosophy.

[Luminous Animal]

12. I think we need to put vandalism in perspective. After all, pre-Revolutionary War

activists were notorious vandals.

See: Son of Liberty (purported to have been started by Samuel Adams). They met under the cover of darkness to plot their actions...They tore down houses, started fires, threw bricks, publicly hounded and humiliated tax collectors & businessmen, incited a shoot out, tarred & feathered and destroyed property on privately owned ships.

I find the Black Bloc glass breaking tactics an annoyance when it interferes with peaceful actions. I think that they are cowards for only showing themselves under cover of other movements. In the 60s, organizations like The Weathermen were not parasites on non-violent organizations.

[AsahinaKimi]

18. They may need to provide their own security

If members were once security guards, or former police officers, that might help. Its a bit difficult to make a citizens arrest, unless you got backup. Those who were in the military may have had to once pull Military Police duties. That would be helpful.

[Luminous Animal]

21. Yay! Street fights! Protester against protester!

Actually, the police need to do their jobs. Instead of randomly shooting "non-lethal" weapons into crowds, they need to butch up and wade in to protect and serve.