It's Getting Difficult to Find Information on the Internet

[SoDesuKa]

The Internet is getting clogged with sites that don't link to any information, just to themselves. I've been trying to program the remote for my stereo, but a search for the codes just leads into a thicket. When I Google "UR5U-8780L-TWY" I get a bunch of slow-loading search sites.

I've also been disappointed by the number of scholarly articles that are inaccessible. For instance, my research into the economic impact of undocumented immigrants led to a number of restricted access sites. Some of the studies are definitive and should be available to inform public discussion of this important issue. But you can't get at them.

This isn't what the Internet was supposed to be. I remember the early days when public access to information was going to be widely available and unrestricted. Instead we're getting all kinds of barriers.



Lots and LOTS of barriers!

[Ohio Joe]

1. So...

Who do you suggest be in charge of deciding who can have a web page and who can not? Who shall make and enforce the rules for what can and can not be said?

[SoDesuKa]

9. Protection Racket

Some of the sites that will sell you the information you're looking for are the same ones responsible for the information thicket. I don't know the name of the legal principle that makes this behavior generally illegal, but you can see the justice in retricting it. "I'll grant you relief from my own behavior if you pay me money," sounds like extortion.

We're not going to continue forever throwing junk into cyberspace. Some regulation will eventually be needed. It may be modelled after the "visual pollution" regulations whereby cities put limits on the amount of flying gee-whiz advertising that can be put up on public streets. These regulations were contested at the time, but they prevailed.



Visual pollution impacts quality of life.

[Ohio Joe]

11. Selling what you own is not illegal

That you want what someone else owns and do not want to pay for it also does not make it illegal for them to sell it. Vast amounts of things are very readily available for free if you learn how to search better. Some things will cost you to get to though, that is the nature of owning things.

The internet is not a public street, the analogy is a bad one. You have complete choice over what sires you visit and which you do not. If you do not like it, don't go there... Kind of like a TV channel. Do not presume to decide for me what I can visit and what I cannot.

[SoDesuKa]

26. Entropy Is Always Increasing

It's true that clutter will not make things disappear, but it will certainly make it uneconomic to spend the effort it will take to find them. You can't just endlessly fill up cyberspace and expect to find things - this is especially true when the presence of clutter works to the advantage of people doing the cluttering.

Regardless of whether it's convenient to recognize the need of regulation of the Internet, the reality is that just like the oceans and the air, it's limited. It's just not true that we'll never have to consider regulating the Internet. That time is approaching.

[Ohio Joe]

54. Simply non-sense

We can and do create more space for the internet on a regular basis, it is not some limited space. All you have been unable to find because of poor search skills has been handed to you in this thread. You claim to want the original promise of the internet but then want to restrict it to make up for your inability to use it. Your clutter may be someone else's search goal... So, I'll ask again. Who do you trust to regulate the internet? Who decides what can and cannot be out here?

[SoDesuKa]

61. Information Theory

Information theory tells us that things go from the meaningful to the meaningless. As the Internet fills up with junk it becomes like polluted rivers. At one time industrial pollution was considered an externality, and government-mandated cleanups a trespass on property rights. That era is over . . . and we will eventually have to decide what to do about the flotsam and jetsam of the Internet. There's no free ride. Infinite cyberspace, it turns out, ain't infinite.



Infinity Confronts Zeno's Paradox

[Ohio Joe]

64. Why do you keep ignoring the question?

Who do you want to decide what is junk and what is not?

"Infinite cyberspace, it turns out, ain't infinite"

Keep repeating this... infinitely, it still won't be true but there will be enough room for it.

[SoDesuKa]

68. Overcoming Denial

Difficult choices are ahead. We can continue to assert that cyberspace is infinite and that there will never be a need to impose any restriction. It's an appealing thought. However faint the signal, somebody will always be able to home in on it. So there's no need for decision-making - not now, and not in the future either.

However, I think that's self-indulgent. In the future, people's research skills and their intuition will be just as limited as they are today, but corporate search engine optimization will continue to grow in sophistication. In the future it will be even harder to find anything that the corporate masters don't want you to find.

Yours is an essentially libertarian argument, touched as libertarian arguments are with Ayn Rand-ism. Any restriction on anyone is a restriction on us all. Such reasoning is a form of denial.

[Ohio Joe]

69. So your only option is using what corporations give you?

You really need to develop some skills, there is plenty more out there besides google and microsoft. I would also suggest you find another argument then insinuating I am a repug, it is getting tired. I do not believe in censorship, that does not make me a repug.

Also... Why do you keep running from the question? Who will decide? Who will enforce? Why are these such hard questions for you?

[SoDesuKa]

71. Libertarian Argument

If you're going to use Libertarian arguments, own up to them. Your idea that we can avoid the effects of Search Engine Optimization strikes me as a vain hope. I personally have plenty of time to come at a search problem from a number of different directions, and I'm also suspicious of what comes up.

However . . . I'm also paying attention to the drift of things. It's getting harder to find things that the Corporate Masters don't want you to find, because the assumption of a level playing field is incorrect. Crap that comes up on the first few pages of a Google search is there because corporations know how to game the system.

I don't see a way around making a decision about what to do about this trend. Of course, you can continue to deny it. That kind of decision is time-honored. However, I think the motive for that is merely inertia.

[Ohio Joe]

76. What a load of bullshit

"If you're going to use Libertarian arguments, own up to them."

Free speech is a libertarian argument? WTF?

"Your idea that we can avoid the effects of Search Engine Optimization strikes me as a vain hope."

I never said any such thing, I said you should learn better search skills to avoid the obvious.

"I personally have plenty of time to come at a search problem from a number of different directions, and I'm also suspicious of what comes up."

Yet all the shit you claimed could not be found was found quickly and posted for you, face it, you do not know how to do a search.

"However . . . I'm also paying attention to the drift of things. It's getting harder to find things that the Corporate Masters don't want you to find, because the assumption of a level playing field is incorrect. Crap that comes up on the first few pages of a Google search is there because corporations know how to game the system."

Again, because you seem to not have the ability to understand. The is more then google to use, because you choose not to use it does not mean it does not exist.

"I don't see a way around making a decision about what to do about this trend. Of course, you can continue to deny it. That kind of decision is time-honored. However, I think the motive for that is merely inertia."

This is simply not true, you have stated exactly how you want to get around it, by deciding who can post on the internet and what they are allowed to post, own up to your desire for censorship. What you refuse to do is state who you think should make the rule and who should enforce them. Why do you keep running from this and instead keep accusing me of being a repug?

[SoDesuKa]

80. Entropy Is Always Increasing

If things are left to themselves, the corporations take over the world. That's the reason crap is taking over the Internet. What are we going to do about it? Hmmm. Good question. I'll keep asking it even though I don't have an answer.



Quantum Entanglement

[Ohio Joe]

82. You are again contradicting yourself

"What are we going to do about it? Hmmm. Good question. I'll keep asking it even though I don't have an answer."

AGAIN... You have stated exactly what you want done about it, you are not asking any question but rather making a statement that whatever is in your way must be removed from the internet. Which is it? A problem for which you see no solution or a problem for which banning that which is in your way is the solution?

[SoDesuKa]

88. Defending Pollution

You are not addressing the real-world issues here. When I searched for the codes on the TV remote right at hand I entered a very specific search string, "UR5U-8700L-TWYG" which yielded mostly crap. These weren't real websites at all, but randomly-generated inventions of some robot.

You weren't the only one who over-reacted to the idea of regulating the Internet such that fictional websites don't appear. The sites that came up when I did my search aren't real sites, they are CRAP.

http://glutdanluochant.webnode.com/news/time-warner-remote-codes-ur5u-8780l/

http://sioruptcudi.webnode.com/news/ur5u-8780l-twy-remote-codes/

http://senrearthfenjprim.eklablog.com/time-warner-remote-codes-ur5u-8780l-a5835201

http://answers.slingbox.com/ideas/1263

http://apitaler.sosblogs.com/The-first-blog-b1/time-warner-cableremote-ur5u-8780l-twb-b1-p10.htm

[Ohio Joe]

93. You did a poor search and got crap results, thats what happens

A search engine is just a bunch of programs, they need good input to give good output, they do not read minds. I understand you want them to know what you really mean but they don't and never will. I say this as a programmer... Computers are the dumbest things around, they do exactly what you tell them... And only that. More then one person was easily able to find your remote search, you should learn to do so as well. Banning pages you do not like will not get you better search results if you still do not know how to search, learning to search will. The first site you link to is not crap, it is someones personal web site that is not filled in yet. That does not make it crap to be banned, it makes it the result of a poor search.

I'm sorry you have to learn some stuff in order to use the internet effectively but it is that way with everything.

[sabrina 1]

33. Except someone is presuming to decide what information

people have access to. And TV is a bad example considering the airwaves have been purchased by six Corporations who now control the information people get.

Are you a believer in the 'money is speech' principle? .

[999998th word]

38. Elsevier is one. Big $$ spent lobbying to restrict content.

Big contributors, and influential w/ALEC and COC, discovered that one day while searching for something else.

Many times I wanted to check something out it has been behind the locked doors of Elsevier.

[SoDesuKa]

42. Limiting Access to Scholarship

Limiting access to scholarship makes us all dumber. I recently got into an extended online discussion with a guy who claimed that illegal aliens take jobs from U.S. citizens. There's no foundation for that argument, and I wanted to cite studies that would prove the opposite point. Unfortunately I kept running into a brick wall, esp. with regards to the scholarly work of George Borjas of the Kennedy School at Harvard University.

Whenever immigration is seriously studied the results are always the same. The addition of new sellers in a market - in this case a labor market - results in an increase in total wealth of the population. However, hate groups like the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) put out "studies" that purport to show that so-called "illegal immigrants" are costing us billions.

The suppression of scholarship is part of the Republican war on science in general and on economic science in particular. Acceptance of bad science leads to bad policy such as the draconian anti-immigration policies of states like Arizona and Alabama. These policies will make native populations poorer, not better off.



Immigration restrictions usually backfire.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. ...

http://www.econ.brown.edu/fac/Rachel_Friedberg/Links/friedberg_jep.pdf

http://research.chicagobooth.edu/economy/research/articles/96.pdf

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=FJoXbhBivAwC&oi=fnd&pg=PP2&dq=economic+impact+of+undocumented+immigrants&ots=KRLRl5QFvq&sig=sVpgukavupRu5q5zldUSBEJQZCY#v=onepage&q=economic%20impact%20of%20undocumented%20immigrants&f=false

http://199.169.243.129/filelegacydocs/wp0807c.pdf

[sabrina 1]

44. I'm not familiar with Elsevier.

But I will do some research, thank you.

[GSanon]

94. I wouldn't say that because it's an excuse to erode net-neutrality. more like-

More like: the Internet is a public street, but the store, which you can see from the street through the window, is still private property.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Oh for fuck's sake. You want to censor the internet b/c you can't program your remote?

Jesus Fucking Christ on a pogo stick.

[SoDesuKa]

17. Didn't Say That

What I said is that it's getting difficult to find things on the Internet. Since entropy is always increasing, we know that there's an eventual limit to the amount of junk that can be dumped into cyberspace. So it's only a matter of time until some regulation.

I used the example of my remote, but I also used the example of scholarly debate on important issues like immigration regulatioin. You can go only so far before you hit a wall. This is not the promise of the Internet. We aren't getting from the Internet what we were told we would.

[Ohio Joe]

21. Well you only heard what you want to hear and not what was said

The internet was held up to be a place where people could freely exchange ideas and information. This means they would not be restricted, not that everything would be without cost.

Just how hard did you look for immigration regulation? Just a couple from the bottom of the wiki page:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS22026.pdf
http://www.ccis-ucsd.org/
http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/18.pdf

All free.

[SoDesuKa]

36. The Economic Analysis of Immigration

I was trying to download immigration studies by economist George Borjas of the Kennedy School at Harvard because so many sources reference his work. It's disappointing that a Google search of "Borjas immigration" turns up so many sites with just the first page of a published study. This scholarly material is off limits to independent scholars, and I don't have a university affiliation anymore.

The economics of immigration is a huge issue in American political life. There really ought to be greater access to important work bearing on it. Why do we even have an Internet if there's going to be a fence around scholarly work? This is not what we were told.

http://www.borjas.com/



George Borjas, Economist

[Spider Jerusalem]

47. Google Scholar is your friend

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.168.3309&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://www.nber.org/chapters/c0098.pdf

http://www.nber.org/chapters/c11620.pdf

http://irps.ucsd.edu/assets/001/502435.pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.168.1247&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.168.879&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/inequality/Seminar/Papers/Borjas.pdf

and lots more, go to http://scholar.google.com and type "Borjas" in the search field, then look for links to PDFs on the right.

[themadstork]

43. I think it's prudent that we regulate google and other info-filter businesses

only insofar as we prevent "monopoly" situations where no other upstart filter or search service has a shot against the giant. Information is valuable enough that people will always flock to the service that doesn't give junk results, so long as they have a choice.

It's when google could guarantee itself the top spot while also providing trashy content-mill results that we would begin to have a problem.

I think the entropy generally should be embraced, and not regulated in any involved way. Chaos, heterogeneity, diversity of sources - these factors make people harder to control, even if it also makes their own lives a little more frantic. Televised news media is the exact opposite (homogenized, only a handful of powerful sources) and has become little more than a mouthpiece, even if it is less of a hassle to use.

[SoDesuKa]

48. Internet Is Showing Its Age

The Internet hasn't been around all that long but its usefulness is already diminishing, even in spite of advances in hardware. I remember what we thought at the beginning, that there'd be all sorts of information at our fingertips. It isn't that way anymore. Google just about anything and you have to wade through tons of debris.

Entropy doesn't mean a growth in diversity, which would actually be desirable. It means that the bad has a tendency to displace the good; that is, that whatever is new and original gets replaced with things that are old, unoriginal and trite. When I say that entropy is always increasing, that's what I'm referring to. In the early days of CompuServe there were lots of lively chatrooms where important viewpoints were discussed. CompuServe was replaced by AOL, which wasn't as full of dreck then as it is now. Time Warner bought AOL and paid big bucks for it. Such were the hopes of the day.

I'm sticking to my earlier observation that it's harder to find stuff on the Internet. Statements to the effect that you have to know where to look don't contradict that observation. If you know where something is, you don't have to find it. The Internet was supposed to make us smarter. It hasn't done that. That was a naive expectation, as it turns out. So is the notion that the Internet won't continue to decline, that we'll see a future less burdened by junk and dreck than the present. That's not how the world works.

[themadstork]

95. afaik entropy implies a growth in disorderliness and unpredictability

Why would that imply an overall decline in the quality of information?

Also I find it questionable to conflate the new and the original. Most new things are unoriginal (as are most old).

Junk information has always existed, and people have always relied on various filtering services to navigate around that junk. What we should fear is a lack of competition between filtering services and thus an overall decline in the quality of that filtering.

[Leopolds Ghost]

86. Actually, that is the legal principle that defines "Racketeering"

"I'll grant you relief from my own behavior if you pay me money."

Much of what the big banks and limited-competition firms do is a racket.

They even tell us customers that we're stupid for failing to take the deal and "should expect" certain things to happen (i.e. deliberate carrot and stick treatment) if we don't take whatever preferred policy is on the table. Now they're applying the same statistically researched mathematical logic about customer behavior under duress, to Congress with the Super Commission.

[Courtesy Flush]

52. That was a really dumb response.

I googled it, and I see why the OP was frustrated.

If you want to stand up for unregulated greed, Free Republic can help you.

[Ohio Joe]

53. Poor reading comprehension?

The OP has had what he was looking for handed to him, for free. Poor search skills are not a reason to regulate CONTENT, which is what the OP wants. Perhaps you will answer the questions I posed... Who do you suggest to regulate what can and can not be said on the internet? Who decides who is allowed to have a web site? Who will you trust to enforce these rules?

The OP wants the internet to be what it was intended yet then calls for it to be restricted... And you support that... Who is being dumb?

[Courtesy Flush]

55. Then I trust you have no anti-virus programs on your computer.

Wouldn't want to restrict anyone, now.

[Ohio Joe]

57. Damn... Even my back hurts with that reach

Do you really not know the difference between what one allows on their computer and censoring free speech? Choice is not something you allow for? What else do you want to decide for others besides free speech?

Please... protect me :sarcasm:

[Courtesy Flush]

60. Pay attention

The "free speech" of those spammers has completely blocked access to real information. Your argument could also be applied to billboards on scenic highways, or telemarketers.

This isn't free speech, it's spam.

[Ohio Joe]

62. Wake up

Poor search skills and being unable to bypass spam before it hits you is no reason to decide who can and can not be on the internet. Again, this is nothing like a highway... One might be forced to take a given highway, one has a choice on where to go on the internet. Choose wisely and learn how to protect yourself. "real" information is not being blocked, you are simply choosing not to learn how to find it and want it handed to you.

Why do none of you want to answer... Who do you want to decide what can and can not be on the internet? Who do you want to enforce these rules?

[Courtesy Flush]

74. Google, for one

The Google results for the OP's search are pretty uncommon these days. A couple years ago, this was so pervasive, it was making search engines useless. Google changed the way it collected data, and these junk results nearly disappeared. Somehow, "UR5U-8780L-TWY" slipped through the cracks.

Sorry, but you won't win me over with your Libertarian logic. Nobody wants to wade through thousands of spam pages to find anything useful on the web. And for you to say that only skilled internet users should be able to find what they want is very one percent.

[Ohio Joe]

77. knowing that there is more then google does not make one skilled

Nor is free speech a libertarian argument.

Who decides what is allowed on the internet? Why do you both keep running from this and instead make baseless accusations?

[Courtesy Flush]

79. I gave you an answer

Google, and I suppose other search engines, design their system to filter out those sites.

I don't think anyone has said that those sites should be removed from the web. They just want them removed from search engine results where they are not relevant. Why is this a difficult concept for you?

Search engines don't remove anything from the internet. They just make an effort to provide relevant search results. Most people get this concept.

[Ohio Joe]

83. Perhaps you should write your own search engine

You don't like google, I get that.

Why should they remove ad sites? Their engine is free to use yet they have to pay people... How do you suggest they do it? You do not seem to get the concept that people do not work for free. Most people do.

[Courtesy Flush]

84. Now you're just trolling

I'm done.

[Ohio Joe]

87. Cool

Good luck with that "I need a search engine that reads my mind for free" thing you want.

[SoDesuKa]

89. Crap Websites

These are not real websites, they are crap generated by a machine. This doesn't add anything of value to anyone. It's just pollution.

http://glutdanluochant.webnode.com/news/time-warner-rem... /

http://sioruptcudi.webnode.com/news/ur5u-8780l-twy-remo... /

http://senrearthfenjprim.eklablog.com/time-warner-remot...

http://answers.slingbox.com/ideas/1263

http://apitaler.sosblogs.com/The-first-blog-b1/time-war...

[Ohio Joe]

91. And?

I looked at the first one... It appears to be a new (about a month old) personal web page and you are looking at a page off it that does not exist, not something "generated by a machine". You want to what... ban personal pages that are not filled in to your satisfaction? Someone is paying for it so I expect it has some value to them or at least to who they pay for it. What is it you want done with this page?

[SoDesuKa]

63. Libertarian Arguments

Libertarian arguments always assume the absence of entropy, which imposes practical limits on what is theoretically limitless. Rivers fill up with garbage. After a while, the problem is no longer an "externality."



Pollution was once considered an externality.

[Ohio Joe]

78. Who decides what is allowed on the internet?

Stop running from the question and stop with the name calling.

[Edweird]

2. If you want to be spoon-fed then the internet is probably not right for you.

The information is usually out there, but the onus is on you to find it. I don't have any problems, but I also know how to find what I want and I possess the perseverance needed to find what I am looking for.

[SoDesuKa]

37. Umm, No.

Spoon fed is a really insulting characterization. I know how to do research, but that's not what's happening now. The Internet is filling up with junk, making it harder to find stuff. If somebody told you that entropy doesn't always increase, they lied to you.



Second Law of Thermodynamics

[Edweird]

92. So, you "know how to do research", but blame 'the internet' when you don't get

the results you expect from a specific search phrase? If it's "hard to find stuff" then maybe your research skills aren't as good as you thought.

[Courtesy Flush]

75. I don't have any problems either

But for some reason, the OP's search phrase is riddled with spam.

[Edweird]

90. Ok, but where is the problem? Is it 'the internet', the search engine or the phrase?

[RZM]

3. At least this is still up

http://yourethemannowdog.com/

:)

[BadgerKid]

4. Scholarly articles that taxpayers probably paid for

only to result in information locked up behind a paywall. It's an increasingly acknowledged issue at universities -- an issue that has caused people to found "open" journals. On the other hand, when doing research for a private company, one has to realize going into it that results of your efforts may never see the light of day.

[enlightenment]

5. Apparently, your remote will 'tell you' the codes . . .

look at this tutorial.
http://www.universalremote.com/resources/software/tutorial/UR5U-8700-Series.htm

As for restricted access websites - are you trying to access academic journals? Rarely will you find those 'free' - publishing is expensive; publishing an academic journal that is read by relatively few people is even more expensive. They have to keep their lights on, too.

[CurtEastPoint]

7. damn.. we're good. I didn't even see that you had posted this! nt

[enlightenment]

19. Sometimes it just takes a slightly different set of search parameters.

Then it's amazing what you can find on the internet!

[SoDesuKa]

39. Second Law of Thermodynamics

The Internet is filling up with junk, making stuff harder to find. In another context, the fact that entropy always increases is called the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That's the theoretical underpinning of an observation I made in the OP. There's a lot of crap out there, and more is being added every day.



The Internet is filling up with junk.

[ThomWV]

65. I believe every discipline has its own version of it.

And economist might tell you that in a monetary system that has real and bogus (counterfeit) money that in time the counterfeit will prevail. Bad money will always push aside the good.

[SoDesuKa]

70. Coin Clipping

"Coin clipping" is a term I use a lot. It refers to passing along some token with less actual value than it had before you came into its possession. I see coin clipping in logical arguments about propositions A, B, and C in which the values are said to remain constant, but actually don't.

There's a joke about golf up in heaven that has the players making miraculous shots. The punch line is, Are we going to play golf or are we just going to fuck around?

There's plenty of room to deny the impact of Search Engine Optimization techniques on the ability to restrict access to information that the Corporate Masters don't want you to find. After all, all you need is better intuition! The answer to that is, Are we playing golf or are we just fucking around in some world of abstraction? The corporations pay SEO wizards to get their message out on top, and Google itself is a corporation.



Clipped coins from the period c355 to c410

[CurtEastPoint]

6. Is this something like what you are looking for?

I just deleted the last 3 chars of your search term and found:

http://www.universalremote.com/resources/software/tutorial/UR5U-8700-Series.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I found out on something completely different

Even pointed to it.

You are correct.

Nor is it accidental.

[SoDesuKa]

15. Entropy Is Always Increasing

My point is that we can't go on forever dumping junk into cyberspace, because it will not absorb an infinite amount of junk. I'm hearing libertarian arguments that sound like the arguments against regulations to control visual pollution. Even if there's nothing currently on the horizon eventually something will have to be done to control cyberspace pollution. I'm arguing that it's already a problem.

[liberal N proud]

10. I don't have trouble finding what I need.

[SoDesuKa]

27. For the Moment . . .

It may be true at the moment that you don't have trouble finding what you need, but it's naive of you to think that this will continue ad infinitum. Cyberspace is not limitless; that's an illusion. I've noticed that it's already getting harder to find stuff, and I don't think it's because my research skills have deteriorated. I think it has to do with information theory, and the fact that entropy is always increasing. That's not just theory; that's perceptible reality.

[KoKo]

13. Tell me about it..! How many formerly "free" research sites now ask you to pay and Give Prvate Inf

I can understand that folks who provide info should get paid for it...but, it's hard to know what should be in the Public Domain...as opposed to Private Domain.

As a researcher I find it a hard call. Sort of like: should Authors of Books be entitled to fair money for their works and should Researchers be allowed to make money off their hard work...in the "Free Market America?"

Tough thing...about this.

[SoDesuKa]

24. Government RFP's

Government requests for proposal (RFP's) are available by Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, but the agencies respond at glacial speed and may not send the right material the first time or even the second time. This has given rise to an industry which automatically requests every RFP from every agency and keeps the original on file. Companies then contact these intermediaries and get copies of the correct RFP mailed back to them within three days. This strikes me as perfectly legitimate because the intermediaries provide a needed service that saves companies a lot of time and aggravation.

I draw a distinction between this sort of service and one offered by companies who have contributed to the clutter, making it difficult to find publicly available information. The practice of cluttering up the Internet with bogus websites and false leads shouldn't be rewarded because it's a kind of extortion. Of course, any suggestion of regulating the Internet provokes a hue and cry of censorship. The practice continues.

[Speck Tater]

14. What bothers me is when I search for something like "industrial pollution"

and get utterly stupid results like paid ads that say things like "Find the best prices on industrial pollution at Target" or "Shop Home Depot for all your industrial pollution needs".

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. Bingo!

[SoDesuKa]

29. Context-Sensitive E-Mail

A buddy sent me an e-mail about Jesus lizards. The right side of my screen fills up with ads for lizard care products.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSLUwmJOo_M

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. That reminds me of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teeoTPSC6Rw

[Romulox]

16. Google's results are getting worse. Sometimes the first several pages appear to be paid placement.

:shrug:

[SoDesuKa]

18. Deliberately "Clogging" the Roadways

It's not surprising that moneyed interests would find a way to make certain information hard to reach, if only by putting up a thicket of misleadingly similar information.

Entropy is always increasing . . . and it can be helped along by deliberate effort.

[Lionessa]

20. May I recommend Scroogle?

http://scroogle.org/

I switched to it and am now free of paid links.

[JoeyT]

66. That's the first time I'd ever heard of scroogle.

Thanks for recommending it.

Being made to feel like a KGB sleeper agent just keeping google from logging everything I do was getting old.

[saras]

22. It's definitely TRUE for technical information

If I search for a datasheet for an older semiconductor, I will typically find one, eventually. But for every site that has a copy of the once-free-from-the-manufacturer site, I will find ten or twenty fake sites - automated aggregators that search other sites, and pretend to look like real websites yourself. Even worse, many of these fake sites want to charge money, whether a subscription or per-item charge, for the EXACT SAME PDFs they, or I, or anyone else, can download for free from the internet.

Usually to find an older chip you have to know who bought the company that bought the company that bought the company that made the chip in the first place - with that info, the datasheets are nearly always available, and free - but that isn't the sort of information that electronics techs are used to looking up to find a part.

Since I make money on a fairly regular basis programming remotes and wiring AV systems for people, I refuse to judge people who don't learn those skills, just like I don't judge drinkers who can't brew their own beer. Someone who claims to be able to "program" a remote without looking up the appropriate code is most likely full of shit, or is dense enough to sit there all night, trying hundreds of them to see which one makes the most commands work properly.

googling UR5U-8780L-TWY remote gets six fake websites, two sales, one unanswered question, and a semi-fake site that is supposed to search the internet, but doesn't work. The second page has another ebay sale and nine more fake sites.

And there's no other way to describe them but fake. They are scripted from templates to look like real sites, but do really poor searches of the internet, then format their links so as to appear to work, but actually force you to jump around pages and enable javascript all over the place, which I suspect is their real purpose. Often the site names themselves, as well as the URLs, are obviously random.

I am more and more glad that I archive all my downloads regularly, because I build guitar gadgets and synths, and there is LOTS of information that used to be easy to find but now is extremely difficult. Sometimes it's gone, more often it's just buried under junk - those fake websites can't have anyone but each other linking to them, so why are they so high in Google's rankings?

[SoDesuKa]

25. Time Warner Remote

I used the Time Warner remote as an example because it was handy and I copied the digits from the bottom. That's actually not the one I'm looking for, but I used it to demonstrate the numerous false leads that people encounter when they search for technical information. It happens that how-to information for that particular remote is readily available; however, that does not disprove my general contention that it's getting harder to find information on the Internet. I also did not call for censorship or licensing or any of that.

The remote that came with my Sony STR-SL7 receiver stopped working. This remote, the RM-U305S, isn't programmable but I found out that somebody has successfully replaced it by programming a Philips Pronto NG TSU3000. He's even uploaded the codes for each of the devices that this remote addresses, including the STR-SL7. Unfortunately, he's using some oddball compression method that I haven't quite cracked yet.

I purchased a programmable remote for the Gateway LN-520 receiver, figuring I'd just reprogram it with the codes for the STR-SL7. That's still my goal once I get the codes for the Sony and I figure out how to program the on-off switch with the Gateway RNC-40. For some reason the on-off switch poses difficulties for this particular Sony because it's an AV System2. Then I'll go for the rest of it . . . the volume controls, etc.

This has been a strggle, but the hardest part so far has been just getting the information. I feel that this is more difficult than it ought to be, and it reminded me of my unsuccessful effort to access certain studies related to undocumented immigration.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

30. Absolutely. Thanks for the reasoned response and not "Oh noes!! You want to censor the internets!!!"

I just had similar experiences looking for an old furnace part and a newer model dryer parts (including manuals).

It's become worse in the last year or less. At least that's how it feels.

It's borderline fraud the way some of these outfits operate.

I spent twenty minutes "chatting" on-line with a supposed parts distributor while looking for a part for an old model furnace. It was a few minutes before I realized the deal but even then I figured what the heck the lady says she has the part. After 20 minutes, she says OK it was nice chatting, I will have one of our affiliates call you - completely different name calls me back AND the part is marked up 40%.

Life became much easier when I figured out the current owner of the old furnace company.

Of course, it's no different than calling lending tree and getting "the best deal" PLUS the huge fees to the closing lender passed on to the borrower. I'm in the mortgage business and saw first hand the screwing LT was giving people. Yes, you shop against 3 other lenders - 3 other lenders all calculating LT's fees if they get the deal.

[toddwv]

23. Here:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/corporate/programyourremote/details.ashx?RemoteID=16

[Drew Richards]

32. Actually I agree

There are more and more trash links being tossed to the top of the search parameters than before.
But this happened once before back in 2002 and then the alogrithms were changed...
I'm sure it will be restructured again.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

34. Ok. So it's not my imagination.

[laundry_queen]

35. I've noticed the search engines I've been using

have been spewing out crap no matter what I search. It used to be you could click on the top link and get an *idea* of what you were looking for, or at least it would help you find better search parameters. Now it's all just crap. I can't remember what it is I searched the other day, but after the 6 paid links, the first 3 links didn't even work (broken link, site overloaded). Only one link on the front page was remotely useful. I changed the parameters 3 times and kept getting the same, unworkable links. So I tried a different search engine and it was only slightly more helpful. This is something that happens on a regular basis with me. Especially being in school, sometimes when textbooks and instructors fail, I'll google the info. I'd say even though my searches are very clear-cut I'll end up with all kinds of crap not even related to my field of interest. Recently an instructor needed us to install a patch so we could run a particular program. He told us to just google the patch name and it should be there at the top. IT WAS 5 LINKS DOWN, even with a very specific name. Just strange. He said it was at the top last year. So something has changed.

[quakerboy]

40. Try to find info

on Arkansas County, Texas. I dare ya. Google it.

[Nostradammit]

46. If you are referring to the county where the judge beat his disabled daughter

it's "Aransas County."


A place I'd never want to visit, but here's the Google info on it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=aransas+county&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[quakerboy]

81. sometimes we are our own worst enemies

And post our own blatant mistakes for the world to laugh at. Oops.

[Nostradammit]

85. If you're not fallible you're not human.

:pals:


“For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?”
― Mr. Bennett

[themadstork]

41. Yeah google is becoming increasingly worthless

Google is clogged up by the content mills, and academic journals seem determined that no one read their stuff. Very frustrating.

[Sherman A1]

49. This spring I found it easy to find information on a repair

I needed to make to my lawn mower. I have also looked for other information on a Dvd player and found little to be helpful. I suspect it's just a matter of what has been posted. Sometimes the stuff that we need simply isn't there.

[SoDesuKa]

51. Vista Drivers for a Laser Jet 1012

I like my Laser Jet 1012, it's sturdy as hell and the ink is cheap. It stopped working when I switched over to Vista and it took me a while to find a solution. I did ultimately find an answer online - load the drivers for a Laser Jet 1015 and fiddle with the settings.

You have to kiss a lot of frogs . . .



Kiss me, I'm really a prince.

[Enthusiast]

50. You ain't seen nothing yet..........nt

[Shagbark Hickory]

56. I agree.

That is all.

[deaniac21]

58. Sounds like a user problem.

[BlueIris]

59. I first started noticing this in 2005. Google searches in particular

started being much more inefficient around that time. I never had problems finding info via "quick and dirty" keyword searches before then. After '05 I had to be much more specific and often do multiple searches to obtain even basic information about basic topics.

I also maintain that most of the first pages of results you get when doing those searches are clearly, clearly slanted to the right politically. Which creeps me the hell out.

[Book Lover]

67. And yet, your local librarian is still at the Reference Desk, accessible to all

Give her or him a shot next time :-)

[SoDesuKa]

72. Reference Librarians

The plural of "reference librarian" is "reference librarians." The benefit of using the plural is that you're not stuck to implying that they're all female. Try using gender-neutral speech. You'll be amazed at how naturally it seems after a while. :-)

[Book Lover]

73. Point taken (nm)