I went out last night, and had a revelation.

[JohnnyRingo]

I have an old (and older) conservative friend who was at the local bar last night. While we were on the sidewalk having a smoke I brought up the OWS protest. Immediately, he interjected "they don't even know what they're protesting". Taken aback somewhat, I asked him why he thought so, and he replied that he'd seen them interviewed on TV (Fox, I'm sure) and they didn't have a clue, and for that matter, neither did he. We had some friendly discussion from there, but it was later after some thought that I realized what he'd been taught by the wordmasters his AM radio and Fox News.

In order to neatly and altogether avoid discussing the social and monetary inequities behind OWS, Fox and Radio Right simply state that absolutely no one knows what the protest is about, then they find a select interview of the one in ten or so who may sound completely off track with the help of creative editing. Then the right wing news glides right over the protest goals entirely from there and discuss how the protesters "need a shower", are just looking for a drum circle, or have worn out their welcome in the city (1st ammendment time limits?).

This is evidenced in that my friend really didn't know what is being protested at OWS. He watches Fox and listens to talk radio, but it never occurred to him to actually question why people are in the streets. He seemed satisfied with the hollow explanation handed him that these protester are just bored, lazy, and generally misguided fools from the Wacky Left. This tactic is not new, it was how hawks described anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War. They didn't want to talk about the failures of McNamara, strategic defeats, or the vast unpopularity of the war in general.

"Dirty hippies" was all they needed to hear to believe they were indeed, the "Silent Majority".

[orpupilofnature57]

1. Joe Schmo ,isn't a " Dirty Hippie " it's a ploy to alienate our allies ,US

They think we think like them ,and thats not us.Their always promoting Exclusive ,whilst we Know Inclusive is our only salvation.By the way I'm a dirty hippie.

[Warpy]

2. Back then, they were the majority

because most people had a jingoistic, knee jerk support of the government and all things military after the end of the Depression and a successful finish to WWII. The New Deal was in effect and life was good for anybody who worked hard and didn't screw it up. Those are things the antiwar movement never understood and by failing to acknowledge them and trying to work within them, they made the majority their enemies until the war had dragged on and on and on long enough to lose support from the silent majority watching it on their TV screens night after night.

These days, things are completely different. The majority have taken a beating from the end of the New Deal, the suppression of wages and the substitution of seemingly endless debt as a way to cope, followed by the loss of value in any assets they hold to the point that too many are looking at retirement with negative net worth. The majority are seething with anger and the OWS movement has wide support simply because it's putting into words what has happened to most of them to one degree or another.

The Silent Majority is siding with people who are saying that business as usual is killing us, that we can't take much more of it and that we won't take much more of it before this whole country explodes.

And this is what the corporate media are missing. If they're waiting for the Nixon people to swoop down on the "dirty hippies" camping in the parks, they're going to have one hell of a long wait.

[FarLeftFist]

3. You just basically summed up FOX news' entire ideology. THAT is exactly what they do.

It's just manufactured journalism directed at a certain target audience that likes being spoon-fed tabloid news. The owner of NewsCorp also owns tabloid rags. It's yellow journalism.

[provis99]

4. your friend sounds like an ignorant asshole.

Not that I'm passing judgement or anything...

[moondust]

5. You could show him this one:

(Tell him to read it closely.)

[Gregorian]

6. Conservatives do what they are told by their masters.

They don't have valid reasons, as evidenced by the t party. It's no wonder they'd easily be informed that the OWS have no purpose.

There has to be some kind of neurological disconnect in this situation since the very kind of person you mention is effected at the very root of their existence by the 1% owners. I guess it's like a drunk. A tough situation. Only a few strong and observant ones will ever break out of their bonds.

[pinboy3niner]

7. You might show him this...

[Cleita]

9. I like this.

:thumbsup:

[rurallib]

8. I am old enough to remember when unions went out on strike local

radio and TV would have 3 or 4 "citizens" come on and say they had no idea why unions were striking, they make great wages they don't work hard .............
What is amazing the bosses have been using the same tactics for a century and a half and they still work.

[EFerrari]

11. It's a kind of denial, isn't it. "I don't know" means "I won't know".

Disowning knowledge.

[rurallib]

12. exactly

[EC]

10. Did you at least fill him in? .. n/t

[JohnnyRingo]

16. Of course I did, but...

I try to be polite because as you know, politics can be a savage conversation when alcohol is added to the debate. I like to allow equal rebuttal and avoid sounding condescending. I resist the temptation to use words like "asshole" or "moran" as much as I can. LOL

This friend is really a nice guy at heart, but he maintains a narrow input of any news that doesn't relate to sports. Needless to say, if I used intolerance to the political opinions of others in a bar, I'll have a pretty lonely night. Indeed, I try to assume I'll sway no one from their opinions anyway, and it's a fine line between debate and argument in bars. I informed him of the OWS grievances, and though he still cast a wary eye toward the protesters, at least he heard me out and he now knows there is a goal for the means. Don't expect to see him there though.

I perhaps had more luck when we discussed Issue 2 here in Ohio. That's the union busting legislation that we're trying to recall with a "no" vote next week. He said he planned to vote "yes", and I had to ask why he was "being such a prick" to our friends, family, and neighbors who worked for the state. When he replied that "he pays their salary". I returned that he doesn't. When he balked at what he thought was a given, I countered by asking if he'll get that money back after it's taken from the workers. I told him that the bigshot friends of Kasich's must be the ones who pay their salaries because they're the ones who have been promised a future windfall by our governor. I finished by telling him his Ohio taxes just go to pay John Kasich's golf cart rentals.

Always end it on a note of humor I figure, and I moved on to ask how his grandson is doing after that point.

[Tsiyu]

13. The Media spread disinformation

to benefit the 1%.

but anyone with any common sense - who imagines themselves politically savvy - should be aware of this.

Choosing to get one's info from FOX et al is just that. A choice.

This friend is choosing to be ignorant. It's a lot less effort to be told what to believe than to spend some time getting the facts on your own and making up your own mind.

Let's face it. A lot of Americans are addicted to intellectual laziness. Fox and AM radio are the poisons that feed their sloth.

[JohnnyRingo]

15. Edit: reply to wrong commenter.

I should quit being stubborn and wear my glasses at the computer.

[Tsiyu]

17. in my case

the worst part of getting old is all the time I spend looking for my specs

(No worries, I didn't read anything you read...been out fixing fence) :hi:

[lunatica]

14. Limbaugh calls them dittoheads

Because that's what they are. And, importantly, that's their choice. Sean Hannity et al don't force anyone to watch them. It must take some intense work but some people are determined to be ignorant because they prefer the emotional high they get from rage. And they get their rage fix from FOX News. It's probably better than heroin.

[BrendaBrick]

18. I wonder how old he is

and if he enjoys a relatively stable, predictable future i.e. retirement pension and/or social security? If so, then from his standpoint, he probably can not understand all of this uproar because he's not feeling the pinch directly, therefore (in his mind) - it doesn't exist.

I see this a lot with some older people who are lucky enough to have worked at a time in this country where pensions and retirement accounts were set aside and locked into a safe monetary network and not attached to the volatility and gambling of hedge funds and/or money markets as they are now...what pensions there still exists these days ~

[JohnnyRingo]

20. Interesting you should mention that....

Though I'm of a rather (ahem) advanced vintage myself, I refer to this friend as "Old Timer'. He's a pleasurable person to speak to because he has the unique trait of allowing an equal exchange. Many on the right debate issues like they're Shawn Hannity and try to cut off your mike mid-sentence. Maybe he just gets tired(?).

"Putz" is from Pittsburgh originally and grew up with parents who never owned a car or a TV set. He's the only person I know who was drafted into both the Korean and Vietnam wars. I know that sounds incredible, but after his stint in Korea he was called from active reserve to participate in the onset of what my generation called "The Asian Vacation". After Korea and between the wars he found time and GI money to get a college education. As an aside, one of his most endearing stories comes from his first days of combat in 'Nam when during a firefight some of the young men he hunkered down with asked him what they should do, as if he was a grizzled and experienced veteran. He says he looked at them and yelled: "How the fuck should I know, I just got here too!". That's just the kind of reassuring guy he is.

After the second war he went on to find a civilian job as a foreman in a small factory here in Ohio where he spent the next 35 years of his long life. By all accounts he was a likable supervisor known for his ability to take a joke. Someone once told me of a time when they used a hi-lift to hide his car on the factory roof.

He outlived his wife who gave him five daughters (all born in July) decades ago and retired on a pension and promised health care. When the company folded they took all that away just in time for Social Security and Medicare to take over. later he won a class action lawsuit and a monthly stipend for asbestos exposure. Though he never complains about any bad hands he'd been dealt in life, he seldom acknowledges that the safety net system that added security to his Autumn years are exactly what younger people want for their future. If he had a fault, it would be that he votes to make sure others cannot follow in his well trodden boot steps. But then, he has me to remind him often enough.

I once confided to him that as a fellow smoker I often look to him for the inspiration that I can spend a long life of puffing away and still enjoy relatively good health. He looked down at his cigarette, then up again and informed me that he just started when he turned 65.

Just the kind of miserable bastard he can be, but I like him.

PS: Many here tell me that I should abandon people like Putz because they're right wing assholes, but I don't think I'd enjoy going out and finding everyone on the same page as myself. Sure, we could sit around and pat each other on the backs and drink the same Bacardi & Cokes while we tell Joe The Plumber jokes all night, but I think before long I'd seek out some opposition. I think it would be soon that I would switch to whiskey on the rocks and ask the others why they don't understand how good they are. Fortunately, I don't have that problem when I go out and I try hard not to alienate myself from those who disagree.
Without assholes there'd be no one but me, right? LOL.

[DCKit]

19. If they were bored and lazy, they'd just stay home.

Geez, the things some people can justify to themselves.