Love this pic from OWS Denver

[MyUncle]

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. cool pic

[MyUncle]

2. The dancer and the diner are about the same age. Who is having more fun?

[donheld]

31. What is the woman looking at. It's not what's happening in the park.

Imposible.

[mpgalloway]

132. They should be dancing to this tune...

http://youtu.be/Ocz0IbGJ3So

[-..__...]

3. Trampling on and defacing the Ameican flag.

Stay classy OWS Denver.

Nice way to win hearts and minds.

[Rabblevox]

4. Yes, it is. Or are you saying that "only flag-wavers need apply". Go Occupy Denver! /nt

[-..__...]

7. I'm saying public relations and perception is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Think it's a grand idea... make it a regular display of "performance art"/protest at every OWS event.

Which direction do you think public opinion will shift?

The unions that currently back OWS? Hmmmm.... yeah, those folks will just jump right in there and do a flag stomp themselves.

The Marine and other former military OWS supporters? Yep... they'll be cheering them on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Get out of the house and visit your local occupy

I can't stress this enough.

[Rabblevox]

13. +1000!

[roguevalley]

41. perception matters. Imagine what the pugs will do with that? I

can. Bad idea.

[AsahinaKimi]

52. This is exactly right...

Wait till that image shows up on FOX NEWS...they will say..

"There you have it folks, these people have no respect for America, and this is the proof." This was a very, very bad idea.

[sabrina 1]

56. How do you feel about this kind of public relations?

Police attacking American citizens exercising their 1st Amendment Rights?


Better to wrap yourself in the Constitution and burn the flag, than to wrap yourself in the flag and the burn the Constitution

[AsahinaKimi]

60. Two wrongs

Do not make a right.

[sabrina 1]

64. Well, we are not talkiing about two wrongs, we are talking about

one.

The 1st Amendment is involved in both these, what you called 'wrongs'. But only one of them is unconstitutional. The brutality and militarization of the US Police forces being used to silence the American people, is wrong, worse, it is unconstitutional. They have put Veterans who believed in their Constitutional rights in the hospital, nearly killing two of them in order to prevent them from exercising their 1st Amendment rights.

The second 'wrong' is a Constitutional right. Burning the flag is a 1st Amendment issue and not illegal nor is it unconstitutional. To equate the two is like comparing ice to fire.

I am far more concerned about the fact that our civilian police departments have been turned into military units to FIGHT the American people rather than protect and defend them, than about someone desecrating a flag. Even if it's not something I would do, it IS their right to do it, as it should be.

And it is because of the attitude that trampling a flag is more important to get upset about than the destruction of what that flag is supposed to represent that we have lost so much of what it represents. Which kind of makes a mockery of using it as a symbol of what this country is supposed to be about.

I hope this changes and people get their priorities sorted out. We can easily reproduce flags, once our rights are lost it could take a bloody revolution to get them back.

[AsahinaKimi]

68. let me put it this way..

The OWS movement needs all the help it can get, people from every walk of life in America. If you give people like FOX NEWS a chance to show people stomping all over the American Flag, then you are not helping this cause one bit.

Someone who might be open to joining the movement might decide otherwise if they think the OWS have no respect for this country, and by the way you can be against things this country does, without having to be against the entire country itself.

I am the daughter of an immigrant who left Japan to come to some place he thought was better. He respects the flag because to him its a symbol of this country. It may be okay to stomp on the flag, but you won't make too many friends, in doing so. If you want people to flock to your cause then you best show respect to them and who they are.

[sabrina 1]

70. Well, we disagree obviously on priorities. And the OWS

movement is one of the biggest, most successful and popular movements in this country's history despite the best efforts of Fox, without having to give up claims to rights, because even many on the right (Fox is a dying empire, even Republicans are ashamed to admit they ever supported it at this point)support the 1st Amendment as most Americans do. And they could behave themselves perfectly, Fox et al would still make stuff up as they do. Best to ignore that fringe element of society and leave it to the tiny minority who are more like cult members than anything else.

I think most Americans are finding the sight of Robo Cops armed to the teeth suppressing the rights of American citizens with brutal force, far more disturbing than the sight of someone stepping on a flag.

Catering to these memes, that this is more threatening to our democracy, than our civilian police depts being replaced by military forces, is what got us here.

Being afraid of what the right will think, has been disastrous for this country. I don't care what Fox does, they are a discredited propaganda machine by anyone who can think and supported by a tiny minority in this country. They are no longer any threat to anyone, except themselves.

Why do you care more about what Fox thinks than about what intelligent, educated Patriotic Americans, including many, like my family members and friends who served in the Military, think, anyhow?

It's way past time for the 'left' to get over their fear of what Fox might think.

Times are changing, and WE have to keep the focus on what is important. Your reaction to this shows how successful Fox and their backers have been in nearly destroying this democracy and how important it is now to end that.

As for the photo in the OP, we do not know why the flag is on the ground anyhow. This appeared to be street theater and they may have been acting out the anti-democratic practices of the parts of the 1% responsible for the attacks on this democracy and the stomper may have been intended to be one of them.

[AsahinaKimi]

71. I guess we will agree to disagree

You don't make friends, by kicking them in the face.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. As an immigrant I think I have a direct POV here

I carry the constitution I was given at tat naturalization ceremony a few years back to OWS... I also still have the little flag (made in China) they gave me in a drawer. I might not like it, but it's protected speech. If all you care is a symbol, you don't belong there.

[AsahinaKimi]

76. Nadin I don't disagree

with the idea its protected speech. However, if you want to bring in a wide variety of people into your cause, you don't insult them by stomping on their flag. Its not a matter of telling someone:

Join us... but if you can't deal with our flag stomping, then please get over it! (If someone told me to just "Get over it", I know what my reaction would be.. I would leave.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. I know what you are saying

But there s 'mother reality here. Some folks look fr excuses NOT to join this ranges from fear al, the way to just ideological opposition. I know this happens in grass roots demonstrations. Wearing the flag is as much of a desecration as stomping on it. The people who get annoyed at the latter tend to do the former.

[AsahinaKimi]

89. Its a matter of degrees

For some people, they may not like people wearing the flag.. (But look at Major league baseball, flags on baseball caps)Even a shirt that looks like a flag (to me it looks tacky..but I don't have a problem with it. Some others might.) But stomping on a flag..is a whole nother level of disrespect.

As I said, I don't care what people do..I am saying, that if you want to bring in people, into your group, your not impressing them, by standing around stomping on the US flag. I don't get how most people don't get that. If you tell those people.. "Hey its our way, Just get over it.." you are not going to win over any friends.

When ever I hear people say "Just get over it", the first thing that comes to mind, was when George Bush won (or stolen)the election, and Republicans were laughting at the poor little democrats...and saying.."WE WON, GET OVER IT!".

It was a way to rub our faces into it. They certainly were not making any friends either. If I went to a political function, and people were doing things, that I didn't feel comfortable about, and they told me I should just "Get over it"...I would look for the door, and not come back.

If I had been in Denver and saw people stomping on the flag, I would think these people don't seem to care about what others think, they certainly wouldn't care about my opinion, then I don't need to be there. We didn't see that in Oakland nor did we see it in New York City. I would love to ask the people in New York OWS what they thought about people stomping on flags.. I am sure, while you are correct its protected free speech, a lot of people might not care for it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. And both are violations of the flag code

And both are protected speech.

Why I really don't give a shit. I don't expect wear my flag types to join OWS anyway.

So a kid doing stupid shit (either by wearing it, or stomping on it) is just that. Nw the hypocrisy is obvious when POTUS SIGNS ones and the usual suspects don't go nuts over it.

[AsahinaKimi]

92. Yeah it was well pointed out when GW Bush and other

Republicans were signing Flags, like as if they were some kind of superstar..and the flag was their creation, and people on DU pointed it out, and people acknowledged it.

But if you look at that photo they aren't just kids, many of them are in their 20's and are adults. There were other adults standing around laughing with them. Not being there, we don't know if anyone came up to them and said.. "hey, hey what are you doing?" Maybe someone did.


The fact is this photo is more RAW MEAT for the right wing, against the movement. I don't really want to give the right wing any advantages... and make this movement look like something totally
negative. First there's a photo of a guy in a Soviet Union Flag, and now people stomping on the American Flag..


We will not gain too many new friends, with photos like this on the front page of newspapers across the nation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Look carefully at the photo wearing

Tat t-shirt.

1- New as can be

2- creases

It screams of plant.

This photo, for all I know it's file.

In the ideal workd that won't happen. In reality it will happen.

The RW will look for anything. And I will be specific, the power structure will.

And it is time we learn to deal what matters. This...I don't expect Gordon Liddy to join OWS. I mean speak of a desecration...mine eyes still hurt.

[AsahinaKimi]

96. Even if the photo was photoshopped

We know the Right wing would drool to use both those photos. When you OWN and Run the main stream meida, tiny shouts of "photoshopped!" always get drowned out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. The point is they will, and we need to get over it

In fact they have.

This is much older than Karl. It's the same shit back in the 1820s and 1840s and 1950s. It's the same playbook. It's just the medium that's changed.

[AsahinaKimi]

100. Maybe you are okay with "getting over it.."

I don't. I don't like feeding the BEAST.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Throw back this one

To disarm this you need to make heads explode



This is not a random kid. This is the president of the US. And the beast will feed regardless.

[AsahinaKimi]

102. We called them on that...

NOBODY LISTENED. Why? They own the freaking media. No, I don't want to feed the beast.. Let it freaking starve to death.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Unless you get an alternate media that is strong

(happening) it will continue to feed. This is very 1880s. So time to Et the media know they are not trusted and we ain't gonna fall for it. This particular incident, first freep that even goes there, will save that photo in iPad and ask pointed questions. That is how you disarm this one.

[EC]

137. I agree..

Back in the 60's the burning of the flag accusations nearly did us in...why give them reasons to slam us now? Especially when we know their "traps"?

[NYC_SKP]

73. Level-headed and strategic, and logical. I agree 1000% with you, AsahinaKimi.

Perception is important.

Images are important.

Being respectful about how others feel about the flag (even if we don't agree with them) will make it more likely that we will bring them into our fold.

Obnoxiousness will get us nowhere.

:thumbsup:

[AsahinaKimi]

75. Thank you

I wish others can see what I am trying to say.

[yesphan]

129. I understand

We need to leave stepping on the flag to the righties.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqOHAoOUiISnx5nX7uV6YowOAurXdlo-1onYC8dLhvpe3LOjIQqJqxFR4vXQ

[Cid_B]

77. "one of the biggest, most successful and popular movements"

Biggest... meh.. arguable

popular... another meh... maybe...

most successful... What exactly have the accomplished? Which laws have been changed? Which elections won?

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. You think the special meeting of the city council in Oakland

Woud have happened without it? You're in the middle of it, but I would not knock it just yet.

[Cid_B]

80. I'm not saying there isn't anything...

I'd have to look up what you are talking about in Oakland though.

My point was that acting like sweeping change has occurred on any level is silly at best.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. We are in the civil rights movement

Oh about 1960. There was no sweeping anything at that point. This is so young tat I can't judge it yet...but there was a special meeting of the city council the day after the general strie. They talked of things like medical care for homeless. So something is starting to happen here.

But if you said something major would happen in '65, in 1960...

[sabrina 1]

122. Who said there was sweeping change yet?

First a movement has to begin, then grow before they can attempt to begin the changes. That normally takes a long, long time. This one began, and then exploded all over the country and around the world. That makes it the most successful, most popular and biggest movement at this point, in history according to people who study these things. The Civil Rights movement, eg, and the women's movement took years to even get to this point.

Because it grew so fast, they have been able to get two court rulings in favor of our 1st Amendment rights (how long have we wanted that to happen?) take powerful action against police brutality by demonstrating that the people DO now have enough power to organize a strike even on short notice and shut down banks and ports when the choose to do so.

The words Ocuppy Wall St are already part of the language. And even Republican presidential candidates had to backtrack on their initial slamming of the movement when they realized it is supported even by Republicans. Now they say they 'understand' the people's frustrations. Republicans!!

For the first time politicians have been forced to NOTICE the people they serve.

The next step is going to be holding them accountable. They will have to decide shortly who they are working for, because up to now it certainly has not been for the people. We can change that and now they know it. We are on to the game they've all been playing and that is the biggest success of this movement so far. That they know we DO have 'somewhere else to go'.

The Powerful are scared which is why they sent out their Robo Cops to try to end this movement. If it was not successful, they would not be scared. Bush was not scared of the anti-war movement. No one noticed it. Everyone knows about this one.

[sabrina 1]

95. Not my analysis.

What have they accomplished? They have already changed the conversation from we 'must cut programs for the poor, the elderly and the disabled' to the real root causes of what has happened to this country. They attracted the attention of politicians, who had turned a deaf ear to the people for the past ten years, no matter how many petitions they signed, none of which were ever even mentioned.

They have won two rulings regarding the exercise of 1st Amendment rights of citizens to NOT be harassed by the cops and/or arrested for doing so. Hopefully more will be forthcoming.

'Most successful' in the infancy stages, they shut down a city last week and port on very short notice, in reaction to the brutal attack on Scott Olsen, bringing out between 60,000-100,000 people in the middle of the week, demonstrating the power the people have when they decide to use it.

They are supported by 57% of the population and have drawn attention to the money in politics, which now can be built on during the next election.

What was happening seven weeks ago before this movement began? Anyone in DC listening or even reading the emails, or answering the phone calls from constituents?

They joined in the 'move your money' movement, helping to get over one million people to take the matter of holding the Banks accountable into the hands of the people, when the government has done nothing but bail them out and then make deals to prevent any further investigations or prosecutions for the crimes that brought down this economy. They forced BOA eg, to forget about their extra fees, getting around the weak regulations that were supposed to protect the public from their predatory practices.

And they've only just begun. In ten years, can you show me where the people had any effect on their government or on the banks to even compare to the reaction this movement has already elicited from them? All I remember is signing petitions, electing people who then turned around and voted for the opposite of what they ran on, making phone calls answered by staff members who promised 'pass your message along' etc.

Now they are at least listening, not that they will act but they know the people have given up on the 'keep them busy with petitions' routine and are taking action themselves, which hopefully will translate into supporting NON-CORPORATE funded candidates in the next election.

Seven weeks ago when this started, some nay-sayers were predicting they would be gone after the first night of sleeping in the park. Now they are saying 'but what have they accomplished' Well, they are still there and in over 1,000 cities and 82 countries worldwide. Give them time, they've exposed a lot in just seven weeks and made the protected elites a little less comfortable and that's more than has happened in ten years of donating to pacs and writing emails.

[Cid_B]

104. So the answer is a vague feeling of uneasiness?

I'm not talking about what will happen. I'm talking about what has happened.

[sabrina 1]

105. Well, clearly you are not a supporter of the movement

What has happened is a huge movement of the people has begun and grown like wildfire. Btw, how long did it take the the Civil Rights Movement to accomplish its goals??

What a ridiculous position to take, that if this movement hasn't solved all the problems that built up over decades, they have accomplished nothing!

For those who do not want to see, nothing will make it happen.

I see plenty of amazing accomplishments in just seven weeks and more importantly, what is being planned to build on those successes and a hope finally, for the people that they have finally realized their power and intend to use it.

[dionysus]

83. " one of the biggest, most successful and popular movements in this country's history"

while i support OWS, that's a laughable statement.

[sabrina 1]

109. Not my statement, just repeating what analysts have said.

But I agree with it.

[Major Nikon]

117. If all this did was piss off the Faux news watchers, I'd be all for it

NT

[reACTIONary]

106. Right On! Preach it Sister! The 99% should be wrapping themselves in the flag every chance they get!

[Whisp]

125. I would leave Fox News out of this conversation. :)

They just make up any shit they want anyway, so why bend over backwards to let them have any power over us/you/we?

fuck fox, who cares what they do or think. there might be other reasons to crit this flag stomping (which I don't really agree with, it's just a piece of cloth) but worrying about what Fox might say is not it.

[rucky]

110. This is the public. n/t

[JHB]

18. No, it's not. It's self-indulgent and stupid.

Whatever message they think they're sending is not the one that will be received by a lot of 99%ers who are "flag-wavers". They associate the flag with good and positive things, and they take displays like this as personal insults. That may be ignorant of a whole mountain of foul things that get wrapped in the same flag, but in this situation that doesn't matter: what matters is that it's a slap in the face to people whose support will be needed to actually carry out the goals that OS supports. When you know your opposition attempts to divide and conquer, don't just hand them fissures.

A better idea would be to "occupy" the flag. You don't have to wave it, just take it away from the other side.

[Angry Dragon]

33. +1000

[L0oniX]

36. Flag wavers are weak minded and empty humans needing something external to wrap themselves up...

in order to feel like they have more value.

[-..__...]

37. And what does that make flag desecrators?

Other than attention whoring "hey... look at me", empty humans needing something external to vent their anger at?

[L0oniX]

42. What are you venting your anger at?

[Bjorn Against]

46. So do you condemn people who wear the flag on their t-shirt in the same way?

The people who wave the flag the most tend to also be the people who desecrate the flag the most, Abbie Hoffman was once arrested for flag desecration for wearing an American flag shirt but now you see right-wingers doing it all the time and saying it is patriotic. The point is that what is flag desecration to one person is a patriotic act to another, and dancing on the American flag is no more an act of desecration than wearing the flag on your t-shirt.

[sabrina 1]

53. How do you know they are desecrating the flag? It looks like

street theater. They could be mimicing the 1% who are trampling on our Democracy and using the flag as a symbol.

There should be some kind of comment to explain what we are looking at. All I've seen at OWS protests are people respecting the flag.

[dionysus]

93. "How do you know they are desecrating the flag?" oh lord....

:rofl:

[sabrina 1]

111. And you admit, you do not know. Not that it matters actually, they

have a 1st Amendment right to do so, but if you have information on what they were acting out, please post it. Until someone does, that photo looks like Street Theater with people acting something out. Care to enlighten the rest of us as to what that was?

[Major Nikon]

118. The photo speaks for itself

There are some photos which simply don't need an explanation. This is one of those photos.

And just because something is legal to do, doesn't mean it isn't completely fucking stupid.

[dionysus]

124. i'm not personally offended by whatever anyone does tot he flag. that said, if you're trying to

attract broad support for a movement, that's counterproductive.

[JHB]

130. So what? Is that more important than working for OWS's goal?

You're free to think what you do about "flag wavers". They're still part of the 99%. How does this work toward bringing them on board?

[L0oniX]

136. OWS is world wide and I believe that it is the higher road to be a humanist rather than being...

sworn to the country you happen to have been born in. The USA is one of the only countries to have its people put flags on their cars, public worker clothing, in front of their homes and many other places. It's a form of idolatry IMO. Posting Army, Marine, etc stickers is also something you don't see on public vehicles in other countries. I just don't get it why the US flag has to be such a big deal in comparison to the worlds humanity without boarders. Our politicians waste our taxes and their time on who what why where and when about the flag and there are much more important issues to be concerned with. The obsession with the flag, support the troops, in God we trust, pledge of allegiance boarders on religious worship IMO. No country is worth dying for IMO. The world is bigger than just one country and life is to precious to throw away for this or that country. Attack my home and I will kill you. Attack the land where I live and threaten to attack my home and I will kill you too, not on some Johnny come lately foreign policy. That's where I draw the line with my allegiance and it will never be based on a flag or the idea of it. NY Stock Exchange has a huge flag in front and every one that works there has a flag patch on what they where. Certainly if the flag represents them then it doesn't in any way represent me and I would hope it also does not represent OWS. I would have serious doubts about anyones intentions at a OWS group if there were waving flags.

[JHB]

143. I understand that you don't "get" it. What I'm asking is to acknowledge...

...that there are people who feel differently about this and that does not automatically make them rotten or empty people. And failure to allow for that difference of opinion in the context of a larger goal. how do you react when people call you "weak minded" or "empty"?

I'll also point out that, being leaderless, you don't get to say what OWS is about. You can add your voice, but the whole point is that it does not "belong" to any one person or one perspective. There's no need to treat "flag waving" at OWS as a hypothetical, it's already been done. you can go there and ask them their intent. You can ask all the people who waved flags at antiwar rallies what their intents were.

You consider it idolatry, and that's fine. But when you need to join with other people to accomplish something, you at least have to account for other perspectives.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Electric Monk]

11. My sig line (Molly Ivins)

"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." — Molly Ivins

[Rabblevox]

14. Bingo!

[backscatter712]

17. My thoughts exactly! n/t

[redqueen]

55. +

[L0oniX]

66. +99%

[rugger1869]

12. No doubt.

*sigh*

[progressoid]

22. The flag is best used as a fanny pack.

[Electric Monk]

26. or a thong

:eyes:

[progressoid]

27. Oh sweet Jesus...

:puke:

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. There are worst than that as well

[ellenfl]

35. is that the guy reflected in the diner's window? eom

[progressoid]

108. Ha - could be!

Actually, I think that photo goes back to the '04 election.

[SomethingFishy]

50. Yeah kinda like when a Tea Bagger wears the flag on his ass

and claims he's being patriotic. How do you know thats not a rug?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

88. thinking a couple people dancing like idiots on a flag is dumb doesn't mean anyone "worships" it.

it might warm the cockles of your heart but it's not going to impress the average citizen... if you can't comprehend that, sorry.

[redgiant]

74. My thoughts exactly...

To a huge portion of the 99 that OWS CLAIMS to represent, this picture will prove otherwise.

Stupid beyond belief.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arctic Dave]

5. Funny pics.

Sixties flashback?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. On the surface

Grapes of wrath more like it.

[Poll_Blind]

10. That fearful woman on the right...she knows OWS will make her shell her own edamame.

Like an animal.

:rofl:

PB

[JNelson6563]

34. lolz

Good one.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

114. What's an edamame? Pardon my ignorance.

[Norrin Radd]

123. Edamame is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edamame

[Poll_Blind]

126. It's a riff on this humourous account from a Whole Foods market:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4845697&mesg_id=4848250">Here.

:)

PB

[backscatter712]

15. Saw that in person, my personal opinion was "NOT COOL!"

It's still First Amendment protected speech - it's a political statement, albeit one in bad taste.

But it's a douchey thing to do.

The country will get over it. If the U.S. is so weak that a few teenagers defacing its flag can really cause damage, than we're truly in sorry shape.

[ellenfl]

16. that's 2 pics.

how do we know the woman in the window is looking at the people in the pic on the left? the man in the reflection in the window looks like he's dressed in revolutionary war garb like the teabaggers like to do . . . or even a french revolution costume.

ellen fl

[MyUncle]

19. The diner was not looking at the dancers

but rather was at restaurant when the marchers went by. I thought I was only posting the dancer pic, but they were in one image when I posted it. I like this better because it shows the the joy of OWS and the "HORROR" of being on the other side.

[Electric Monk]

21. The file is hosted on msnbcmedia.msn.com

http: //msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-111105-ows-denver-2-3.photoblog900.jpg

[backscatter712]

25. She wasn't.

The flag-dancing was taking place in Civic Center Park, near the Greek Theater, and there aren't restaurants that are close by.

The restaurants where that lady might have been were along the 16th Street Mall, a few blocks away.

[originalpckelly]

59. Yeah, that's actually 100% correct.

Glad you saw that too, mind you a long time before I even got to this thread.

[backscatter712]

113. I saw the flag-dancing in person.

I'm familiar with the geography.

All I did was walk past and shake my head. It's in poor taste, but it's their right to do it.

[Vehl]

20. K&R but they probably need to be more PR friendly

Why alienate millions who could have joined the OWS if not for the stomping on the flag? While I for one do not consider it as a deal breaker, the right wing news agencies will(and have) used such images to portray the OWS protesters as some "fringe" , "anti-national" group.

[MedleyMisty]

24. If they're willing to be hungry and homeless and die of some easily treatable thing

because a couple of people danced on a flag, then there's no hope for them.

I don't know, though. I think people who are facing poverty and death might be willing to overcome a couple of strangers dancing on a flag. If not now, then in a year or two when they're really hungry.

[lonestarnot]

23. The dinner looks like she chewed off her nail job, and maybe crapped her diner seat.

Love my libs! :applause:

[TwilightGardener]

29. Well, that's stupid.

[donheld]

30. Why indeed do you love these picture. Why did you post them?

The one on the left is from Civic Center Park's Greek Amphitheater. The one on the right is from God knows where.
She is not even looking at what is going on in the amphitheater. I know the park well enough to know there are no
windows looking out on that part of the park.

[alittlelark]

32. Why would you love that pic?

I don't get it. There are no cool signs, and the separate pic of the blonde lady has no bearing on the pic.

Why is it interesting?

[think]

38. although I'm no fan of brainless flag waiving

desecrating the flag does little to educate those that worship the flag more than what it stands for. Instead it irritates them and makes them more prone to hold their emotional attachment to the symbol rather than the rights and freedoms it represents.

I'd rather see OWS protesters focused on solutions like Bank transfer day and any other methods of getting their point across while hitting Wall Street and the big banks where it hurts. (JMO)

[sufrommich]

39. What a fucking clueless thing to do. Way to play to the

Fox News stereotype. Stupid.

[RegieRocker]

40. Yep.

[GrantDem]

43. +1

Exactly.

[Yavin4]

45. So Stupid I Suspect That They May Be Plants

I've not seen any other Occupy movement do this.

[AsahinaKimi]

57. I know right?

I have an idea, lets show that photo of the kid wearing the SOVIET FLAG teeshirt next to the kids stomping the USA FLAG... on FOX NEWS... That should get a lot of support for the OWS movemnet...

I am sorry but this photo sucks! Its clearly what the OWS movement is NOT ABOUT.


UNREC

[Cid_B]

79. Except it is...

There are so many disparate groups and causes that anyone who says "they aren't on message" or "they aren't really with OWS" is delusional.

Accept the reality that the people in the OP are the face of OWS and prepare to deal with it. Denial will get you nowhere.

[apocalypsehow]

44. How many votes do you think that image on the left is going to win when used in a national TV ad?

A lot, I'd wager. Just not for Democrats in general and progressive supporters of the OWS's broader goals in particular.

UnRec.

[Buddyblazon]

47. I had to hear about this last night at work all night from..

the handful of Repubs I work with here in Denver. I was asked a half dozen times if I wanted to dance on the flag too.

While I found the questioning retarded, it pissed me off even more that these righties like to just lump everyone into the same group.

The protesters certainly have a right to do such a thing. That doesn't make it very bright. If there is a hope that the movement can swell its numbers, this does the opposite. Having cameras everywhere can be a good thing. But in situations like this, it can also be a bad thing. The cretins in the mainstream media are going to show that picture everywhere. Protesters really, really, REALLY need to be on their best behavior.

[Buddyblazon]

48. And sorry...

nothing personal. But I have to un-recommend this thread. This picture being on the greatest page does a disservice to the protesters goals and message.

[Earth_First]

51. +1

I even went so far as to alert the thread for locking and image removal...

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Ask them if this is ok

By the by there are worst violations of the flag code by the right. But this one throws the double standard in faces. It is a playbook and on,y way to get around it is to show the hypocrisy.

[Kahuna]

128. And they wonder why the president doesn't come out and endorse OWS???

Because he's a very smart man who knows how these types of protests get out of hand and leave nasty, undesirable images.

[Earth_First]

49. As a veteran and vocal activist and direct action supporter of OWS this is bullsh*t!

I'm no flag-waving super patriot, but this is just dumb, dumb, dumb.

Wait until 'they' get ahold of this one...

[krabigirl]

119. eh, I think people are over-reacting...

then again, I am not really into flag-worship. It's a piece of cloth to me. I do get how that would be offensive though, but it's freedom of expression.

[Buddyblazon]

54. Again...no offense MyUncle..

but I'd like to ask people to un-recommend your thread. We cannot help the detractors by having this picture out on the internet.

[originalpckelly]

58. This photograph is a fake, the two places are not next to each other.

How do I know this? Well, the photo on the left is from Civic Center Park, and we don't have any other buildings in that park that are reddish like the one on the right. There is nothing where the people dancing on the flag are. It's in the middle of a plaza. Anyone who doesn't believe me, may take a look here:

http://g.co/maps/bz3jr

The lady is in a restaurant called Katie Mullen's way out of sight of the those protesters in the first pic.

It is not on the Google street view unfortunately, probably because Google street view isn't going to be able to get their cars down 16th street very often. It's a picture of the old restaurant that used to be there before Katie Mullen's used to be.

http://www.katiemullens.com/gallery.php

Go to the second image and you will see the red wood.

Now, these protesters might have gone down the 16th street mall later on, but she is not directly reacting to them stomping on the flag.

[B2G]

61. No one said it was one photo n/t

[Bjorn Against]

62. No, but it is implied the two photos are related

The way the pictures are positioned implies that the lady in the right hand picture is responding to the people in the picture on the left, when in fact we really have no idea what she is responding to but the evidence suggests it could not possibly be the people dancing on the flag.

[B2G]

65. Take it up with MSNBC

It's their photo.

[Bjorn Against]

67. I have not seen the context in which MSNBC presented the two photos

Showing the two photos separately would not be deceptive, putting them right next to each other in an implication that they are related is. Until I see the context in which MSNBC presented the photos I can not take the same issue with them that I do with the OP, although there are certainly plenty of other things I can take issue with MSNBC on.

[apocalypsehow]

69. LOL. That is all. n/t.

[MyUncle]

107. i posted the photo from MSNBC

I thought I was only posting the dancing image, but when I uploaded, I realized, MSNBC had merged the photo when I previewed, I like the justaposition of up tight blonde diner and elated dancer. It was established early in the discussion the was two images reacting to OWS Denver events.

[Bluenorthwest]

131. Then the intentional juxtaposition of images is worse as it is

done to create the appearance of action and reaction, that is, to tell a story that did not happen, to create a narrative out of thin air.

[Matariki]

84. Anarchy symbol sprayed on flag. Some woman in a "hippie" costume dancing on it.

stupid.

[Nye Bevan]

85. Fake protestors, desecrating and dancing on the flag to make OWS look bad?

At least, that's what I hope they are.

BTW Bush was roundly condemned on DU for this (and rightfully so):

[goforit]

91. Great Pic of Bush.

Bush destroyed the flag a long time ago.

[backscatter712]

112. Seems possible. I won't speculate as to whether that's true or not.

But I wouldn't put it past the Breittards.

[dpibel]

135. Not the way I recall it

Bush was roundly called out for his hypocrisy as a flag waver who "desecrated" the flag.

In my opinion, anyone who actually condemned the act of writing on a flag has problems with identifying a bit too closely with something that is, at best, a symbol.

[alphafemale]

138. I once used that pic and posted to a board and claimed it was Bill Clinton

Right Wingers went APESHIT. Hatred for Bill's flag desecration was off the chain.

An hour or so later when I revealed it was god-in-flesh b2, suddenly the act was suddenly A-OK and a reverent thing to do, plus they were pissed at me for deceiving them.

Right Wingers are fucking morons.

[Nye Bevan]

140. Heh. Hilarious (nt)

[dionysus]

87. amazingly tone deaf. way to shoot yourselves in the foot guys...

[Politicalboi]

98. Most don't understand it like we do

We see expression of speech, they see hatred of the flag. Even though I agree they should be allowed to do this without controversy, we know it will cause controversy. And the right will run with this. They will lie about desecrating the flag, instead of important issues like Cain's sexual harassment case. LOL! If you want more to join your cause, don't cut your own throat. I mean look at the stupidity that qualifies for running for President. Did any of us think this would happen? Not knowing China has nukes would have disqualified men of the past. Today it's a learning phase, and acceptable for Repukes.

[Major Nikon]

115. It's a monumental show of stupidity

Not much more you can say about it.

[Skittles]

116. I agree

they look fucking ridiculous

[Electric Monk]

120. The ones in the restaurant in the 2nd picture?

[Skittles]

121. as the Major said

not much more you can say about it

[Nye Bevan]

134. Gray T-shirt guy, fanny-pack lady, and blue bandana guy, all look absolutely ridiculous.

Cringe-worthy embarrassment there.

[Kahuna]

127. Love it? Why? Are you one of the dancers on the flag?

:crazy:

[Zax2me]

133. A fanny pack? Really?

ugh.

[cwydro]

142. Because it's all about fashion...nt

[paulk]

139. not good

pretty stupid actually

[Throd]

141. Burning an American flag is like putting a Confederate flag on your truck.

It tells me everything I need to know about you, and that you are a tedious pain in the ass.

[Rabblevox]

144. I'm a middle-aged vet, who has never stepped on the flag. However, I am 100% in support of those...

who do. It is a dangerous act. It will earn enmity from most people. It will earn distaste from many others.

It is a courageous act, that will earn support from some.

It is your right to do so, and I defend it.