Carmax and arbitration. This is Occupy Wallstreet

[johncoby2]

Bought a used car from Carmax. As a prerequisite to buying the car I had to sign and agree to a mandatory binding arbitration clause AND to never join a class action suit.

Arbitration is a huge scam and provides more protection for corporations than our 7th amendment rights to a civil trial.

This is what Occupy Wallstreet is about, among other things. When you have no regulation and no justice system available to keep them in check, they can do whatever they want.

Oh...and before anyone else says "you can just walk away and buy somewhere else", all the car dealers in my area have arbitration clauses, even though they lobbied congress to get the arbtration clause between dealers and car manufacturers removed.

And they won.

[Fumesucker]

1. One word..

Craigslist..

[johncoby2]

3. Or another word: Give up.

Ok. Two words.

That is what most people do. Just give up. When they need the help of the civil justice system that they are paying for with their taxes, they will find out it isn't there.

[Fumesucker]

4. No, you just go around the corrupt system..

I've been doing it for decades now.

Most of us (at least here on DU) know the civil justice system is rigged against the average person and those who don't will find it a wake up call.

If enough people withhold business from Carmax they will change the way they operate. I doubt they are too big to fail so a bailout is unlikely.

Going around it is one way to deal (or not) with a corrupt system.

Until the corruption is rooted out at the very core, which I doubt will really happen, there's really not much choice for the individual who has a life to live and other interests than bashing his head on a brick wall.

[johncoby2]

13. That is exactly what the corporations want you to thinkg

"The civil justice system is corrupt".

And that is why they force you into arbitration, and you accept it.

They are playing us for a bunch of *&^damn fools.

[Fumesucker]

16. Carmax can't force me into a damn thing..

I'm not obligated to buy a car and I'm certainly not obligated to buy it at Carmax.

[Donnachaidh]

6. craigslist doesn't help anyone who needs to finance a car

If you already HAVE the cash it would make the whole arbitration thing moot.

[Fumesucker]

7. Carmax is not a buy here pay here..

And it's possible to get a loan for a private purchase, you'll go to your bank or credit union directly rather than arrange a loan through Carmax.

[johncoby2]

10. Not the point.

It is not in the loan, it is if the car is defective.

[Fumesucker]

15. I was responding to a point about financing..

All Carmax really does is make it possible to look at a lot of cars in a short time. Given that a car is the second most expensive purchase most people will ever make (after a home) people shouldn't rush into it at one place anyway.

I know emergencies happen and sometimes people need a car quickly but that isn't how it works most of the time.

[izquierdista]

2. Who rules at an arbitration?

Some has-been shrew of a judge (think Judge Judy), who capriciously dishes it out to the less sympathetic party. Professional wrestling is less predictable.

[hlthe2b]

5. I'd like to know from someone who tried...

what would they do if you flatly refused to sign and stood up to walk out? Every time I have done so--whether for added on charges that I'd not agreed upon--or some other egregious reason-- some "manager" always way-laid me before I left and backed down.

Since my first car, which proved to be a real costly lemon--I never enter into a contract on a car that I am not willing to walk away from. That, it seems to me, is a tough lesson for many--given the emotions tied to "wanting" something so much.

I would have told them that I was shocked they would try this at this juncture of closing the deal and that not only was I prepared NOW to walk away, but would, if necessary travel considerable distance to find a dealer where this was not an issue. AND, that I would go online or on facebook or any other outlet to elicit my friends to inform widely what is going on with regard to this issue and carmax.

They won because you let them, IMO. I don't mean to be offensive as I know you may have felt you had no choice--and maybe given whatever circumstances you didn't. But at some point, we all have to stand up or be consumed.

On edit, I have been in Fort Collins, Colorado (smallish city, pop. 144,000-- about 60 miles north of Denver and resident to Colorado State University) recently and am shocked to see all the many many major car dealerships thriving. COmpare that to Denver, where many have gone out of business in this economy. I asked locals how that can be and apparently each and every one of those dealerships is at least decades old and represent well known and respected local ownership. They protect that reputation. So, if I were you, I might think about buying in a locale where that is similarly true, rather than through some anonymous national broker, like carmax. Just a thought....

[johncoby2]

11. I tried

did the old, I am not going to sign this bit.

And it didn't work. I needed a car.

[and-justice-for-all]

8. A car is a product, and if it is deemed unsafe...

but numourse people who are affected by a mechanical defect for example, they should be able to sue. WE need production from faulty and defective products and services, not the other way around.

[Motown_Johnny]

9. I bought a used vehicle without anything like that

I bought from Volunteers of America, a place where people donate vehicles for a tax deduction because the money raised from selling them goes to charity.


Maybe you should look around for someplace like that near you.

[johncoby2]

12. As I said, give up.

Everyone doesnt seem to understand that this is in the Constitution.
It should not be up for debate. At all.

Yet everyone will eventually sign because they have no choice.

p.s. The car dealers used to have an arbitration clause between themselves and the car makers imposed by the car makers. So if you want to sell cars, you have to give up your rights.

BUT....the dealers lobbied Congress and got that arbitration clause removed by law.

[Motown_Johnny]

17. my point being that there is a choice

I bought a used vehicle from a charity organization and did not need to sign anything like what you described.

I'm not sure how that qualifies as giving up.

I would qualify it as voting with my money and allowing free market capitalism to rule the day because no used car dealer got my money, a charity did.

[customerserviceguy]

14. Buy a used car from somebody else

Especially a rent-a-car firm. You'd 'inherit' all the rights that they had when they bought the car, and you don't think they signed any agreements like that, do you?