Is The U.S. Really In Decline?

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

No, it is not in decline, it has begun to collapse. Through its productivity, the U.S. once had the world's top living standard as well as being the greatest manufacturing powerhouse ever. But most of that manufacturing is gone and after six decades of taxpayer paid massive stimulus to the military industrial complex, the U.S. is now largely a "consumer nation," meaning 70% of its economy is now dependent upon its citizens borrowing money to buy largely foreign made goods they cannot afford. To sustain itself the U.S. government must borrow money from everywhere including from Social Security, borrowings it can no longer afford.

Adjusted for inflation, U.S. wages are the same as in 1978 and U.S. citizens are tapped out. They were actually tapped out in the 1990's until the Dot Com bubble created the illusion of prosperity, all of it on borrowed money. When that bubble burst in 2000, rather than face a Depression, the U.S. Fed made vast sums of cheap money available which started the real estate bubble, that has now burst. So the government bailed out corporate giants and issued stimulus, largely with borrowed and printed money, while also paying for weapons and wars. This time the "Recovery" is floundering and the government doesn't know what to do next.

When a collapse comes, it comes fast. The Roman Empire didn’t slowly decline. It fell within a few decades during the fifth century, through poor leadership and a vastly overextended military that no longer generated the income to support the Empire. The barbarian invaders finished the job and Rome's giant marketplace and its great centers of learning, along with its superb roads and aqueducts were history. The U.S. is in a far bigger crisis than its politicians acknowledge and the time for bold and sacrificial action such as dramatically slashing the U.S. military overhead is now, while there are still wheels on the American bus.

(posted with permisso from: http://sane-ramblings.blogspot.com/2011/11/is-us-really-in-decline.html)

[Systematic Chaos]

1. I give it another 10-15 years and Nevada will probably be part of the California Federation...

...or something like that.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

2. It's really too bad that our party does not honestly advocate for a ...

drastic reduction in military spending/bases/operations to put the U.S. back on a more stable financial footing.

[Selatius]

12. There's too much military-industrial money going to Democrats to make them do the sensible thing.

Politicians are concerned about re-election prospects and job prospects after they get out of office. Only a few of them ever take the long-view of things and adopt policies of sustainability. It's simply easier to be appeasers of monied interests than to pick a fight that may become a life-long struggle filled with hardship and struggle. At least with selling out, you get a big paycheck rather quickly. The other way is no guarantee of anything.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

16. A more accurate comment, I don't think I've ever read.

You are wise, and hit the nail on the head.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. We will only let Nevada join us if Nevadans agree to an

income tax :)

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

3. Post-War prosperity was built on having bombed every other industrialized power to dust.

Except for Australia, Canada and South Africa. The idea that this sort of industrial hegemony was sustainable was insanity. This was well understood at the time and highly influenced European economic thought and policy - particularly in Germany and France. The US on the other hand just stood dead still in a changing world precariously balanced on an untenable industrial paradigm.

[DCBob]

14. +1

few understand or admit this.

[valerief]

4. Not for the 1%. Just for everyone else. nt

[Kurmudgeon]

5. That depends, how long before we become even more of a right wing Plutocracy?

[and-justice-for-all]

6. If we do not take out the trash, it will be...nt

[Proles]

7. Well at least the Roman Republic/Empire lasted

at least a thousand years.

[Selatius]

11. Hell, if you want to get technical, it was a healthy republic for only two of those ten centuries.

After the first two centuries of the Early Roman Republic, there came the Late Roman Republic, two hundred years of internal power struggles between powerful families and assassinations and civil wars for control of it all. Eventually, a dictator unified all of the Republic under a hereditary dictatorship, and the Roman emperors became standard issue, and for a while, things were stable for the next four centuries, at least until the last two centuries before the Empire was simply overrun from the outside by invaders and by the inside from generals seeking a slice of what was left of the commonwealth.

In comparison, the US is not even two centuries and a half old, and it has already fought a major civil war with itself, some of the scars and divisions of which are still visible to this day, and its military is already extended to the point of stationing over 700+ garrisons all over the world. Eventually, its military budget will begin to cannibalize the economy itself like cancer.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. The answer is "yes",

The reason? Is one that's not really much discussed and that most people don't even seem aware of. US domestic oil production peaked in 1970; by the mid-1970's the US was a net oil importer. The US economy? Runs on oil. By the late 1980's the US had gone from being a net creditor to a net debtor. Point of comparison? It was coal that fuelled Britain's rise to industrial dominance, coal that powered the steel mills and foundries of England, that fuelled the warships of the Royal Navy, up until the 1910's...and Britain's coal production peaked in...1913. Britain continued to be a superpower for the next 40-odd years, but the inevitable decline of a key energy resource and increased reliance on imports and alternate energy sources is usually a sign of long, slow, and irreversible decline.

[Skittles]

9. it is very, very much in deline

[taught_me_patience]

10. Declining but not collapsing

LIfe for the top 20-30% has gotten better.

[Downwinder]

13. A service economy is not sustainable.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

17. A few more recent examples of how fast a collapse can happen.

The Soviet Union being particularly appropriate, for it too buried itself in the vast Cold War military race, a war in Afghanistan and a dysfunctional government that served its elite well but not its people. Once like America, they seemed invincible and suddenly they collapse.

Earlier this year, we watched long standing unresponsive governments collapse in the Middle East. Last year at this time, Mubarak, Ben Ali and Kaddafi and their governments seemed invincible. Today they are history. When the underlying structure becomes dysfunctional and people become hungry and desperate, they will abruptly bring the collapse of the regime. Most Americans aren’t yet ready to take to the streets but that will come as the economy grows worse, for many of them already realize they have no voice in their government.

[Uncle Joe]

18. I believe we're definitely in for a readjustment coming down from the high of post WWII when we

totally ruled the "free" roost as empire; the vast majority of the industrial world having been blown to the Stone Age, but not necessarily a long term decline, it all depends on our present and future policies.

In short we need to change the way we view ourselves and the world, there is no fortress America and if we try to hold on to that concept, we will rapidly decay as does most any closed system.

We need tax reform to both equalize great disparities in our society's wealth and keep up to date with the Las Vegas Casinos on steroids mentality of Wall Street's financial system trading in milliseconds, a transaction tax sounds good to me in this regard.

We must also become more harmonious with the natural world and put major emphasis on evolving away from dead end, finite energy sources toward renewable and sustainable ones.

Thanks for the thread, No DUplicitous DUpe.