Preaching Virtue of Spanking, Even as Deaths Fuel Debate

[SecularMotion]

PLEASANTVILLE, Tenn. — After services at the Church at Cane Creek on a recent Sunday, a few dozen families held a potluck picnic and giggling children played pin the tail on the donkey.

The white-bearded preacher, Michael Pearl, who delivered his sermon in stained work pants, and his wife, Debi, mixed warmly with the families drawn to their evangelical ministry, including some of their own grandchildren.

The pastoral mood in the hills of Tennessee offered a stark contrast to the storm raging around the country over the Pearls’ teachings on child discipline, which advocate systematic use of “the rod” to teach toddlers to submit to authority. The methods, seen as common sense by some grateful parents and as horrific by others, are modeled, Mr. Pearl is fond of saying, on “the same principles the Amish use to train their stubborn mules.”

Debate over the Pearls’ teachings, first seen on Christian Web sites, gained new intensity after the death of a third child, all allegedly at the hands of parents who kept the Pearls’ book, “To Train Up a Child,” in their homes. On Sept. 29, the parents were charged with homicide by abuse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/us/deaths-put-focus-on-pastors-advocacy-of-spanking.html?hp

[hobbit709]

1. There's a lot of difference between a spanking and a beating.

A swat on the rear with an open hand is not going to cause death.

[phantom power]

4. It amazes me how these culture wars get fogged with sloppy language...

There is a big damned difference between "spanking" as in "taking a child over the knee and swatting their butt with your hand a couple times" versus "spanking" as in "beating a child with a belt, stick, fist, etc." There is also a big difference between spanking infrequently for serious misbehavior and spanking every day for minor things.

But it all gets lumped under the term "spanking," thus clouding any useful public discussion and allowing extremist child-abusers to draw bogus moral equivalencies between rare spanking and daily beatings.

:(

[Chan790]

8. There is no useful public discussion to be had...

it should all be criminal. If there is a difference in degree then it is only a difference in degree of criminality.

The Pearls belong in prison.

[tularetom]

2. If you beat a kid because he "disobeyed" you then you have anger issues

If you beat him because he might disobey you in the future, you are a fucking sociopath.

[HillWilliam]

5. my great-grandmother was legendary for beating her kids before church

so they'd "remember to mind". If a child sneezed or made so much as the tiniest peep of noise, that one could be assured to get another beating upon return home. Her daughter, my grandmother, was just as evil. She made sure to visit all her frustrations and anger issues on me when I was a child.

I resolved way back then that generational sociopathy stopped with me. One can choose to live a peaceful and non-dramatic life.

I didn't get kids, but I'm blessed with a pack of rescued dogs, most of whom came from abusive situations. We've managed to heal one another without violence. I couldn't do anything about the rest of the world, but at least in my corner there's peace and mutual respect.

It could be said that my ancestors shouldn't have had kids (the violence goes back at least 4 generations I can gather information on), but I wouldn't be here today to appreciate what I've finally gained in life.

[d_r]

3. The debate has moved.

It isn't "does spanking get the desired result" - we know the answer to that. Spanking is associated with short-term compliance and long-term noncompliance, sneakiness and lack of internalizing moral codes. The debate now is "is spanking harmful?" and yeah, probably in low doses it isn't that harmful.

Of course spanking doesn't always lead to abuse. But heavy physical punishment combined with a family with low outside social support and high levels of stress is a recipe that can lead to disaster.

It was interesting to me in this article that all the families involved with the death of a child had adopted children. Perhaps instead of worrying about the well-being of children adopted in to homosexual families folks should start worrying about the well-being of children adopted in to socially-isolated, extremely punitive, fundamentalists families?

[yellowcanine]

9. "in low doses it (spanking) isn't that harmful." I question that, I really do. First of all, we

rarely know at the time what the long-term side effects are going to be. Further, it is difficult to train parents to think in terms of "low doses". Just because something doesn't leave marks or even hurt that much doesn't mean psychological damage hasn't been done. The article mentions using spanking on a 6 month old baby. There is no way that any level of hitting is not going to be harmful to a 6 month old child. Hitting young children teaches them to fear adults and not to trust them. That is always bad.

[d_r]

10. my point wasn't really to defend spanking

I don't disagree with you.

[yellowcanine]

6. “the same principles the Amish use to train their stubborn mules.”

I doubt seriously that Michael Pearl knows anything about the Amish or mule training. Just as with children, a big part of training a mule is earning their trust. You don't do that by beating them.
Raise your hand against a mule and the mule will learn to fear and distrust the hand and the person as well as other people. The same is true with a child. Offer rewards and kindness with the hand and voice and mules and children will learn to trust. Improperly train a mule by not giving it enough time to trust you and understand that what you are asking him to do is safe and you will end up with a stubborn mule. And then you do have a problem. Children are indeed not that much different, but not in the way Michael Pearl thinks.

As for the Amish - many of them depend on horse trainers and mule trainers who know what they are doing because they recognize that a good horse or mule can be ruined by thoughtless "training". Just as they don't build their own buggies, they generally don't train their own animals.

[SecularMotion]

7. Petition to remove the book from Amazon

http://www.change.org/petitions/amazon-refuse-to-carry-books-which-advocate-the-physical-abuse-of-children