I know it's bad for women when they are sexually harassed, but what about guys?

[Archae]

I have heard of guys being harassed sexually.

It's a power trip, by those in charge.

[pennylane100]

1. or they could just want to get laid.

[stevedeshazer]

20. *sigh*

*facepalm*

[pennylane100]

40. Sorry, that was a little tacky.

[stevedeshazer]

43. No problem, I think I've made my point here.

Just because I may be concealing male genitalia in my undies doesn't mean I'm always on the make.

:hi:

[seabeyond]

2. the majority are females that are sexually harassed, and yes, there are males that are.

there is no quibble about it. it is harassment for either gender and both have the right to work or go to school without harassment. as with any bullying.

[The Doctor.]

64. Please look at this;

Is this appropriate?

"I'd like to see men harassed sexually."


A poster said it. She probably won't let a man tell her that such a thing is no more appropriate than a man saying; "I'd like to see women harassed sexually."

Please help her out.

[seabeyond]

66. my response would be really? i would like for the person to explain what they mean

i hve seen men/boys made uncomfortable. it isnt right for anyone to do it. the intent was to be mean when it was done. so, i would like to hear what the fuck the poster is saying.

[The Doctor.]

69. It's right below this post. Post #3 in this thread to be specific.

You can ask her yourself.

Anyone with respect for equality should be appalled.

[seabeyond]

72. post 71. reading her post, i think it is clear that she is saying, she cannot see a male is able to

be harassed, she would have to see it to believe it. not, she wants males to be harassed.

[The Doctor.]

73. And if I said, "I'd like to see women harassed sexually", would that not automatically

be considered vulgar?

Because I'll tell you that I have not personally witnessed such a thing, only heard of it through third-party accounts, does that make the statement innocent?

Not sure it would go down that way here, especially considering the vitriol I've weathered for actually and completely innocent statements.

[seabeyond]

75. how does the sexual harassment of males take place, and where?

if you were to say,

i would like to see women sexually harassed, and how does the sexual harassment of women take place, and where?


i would pretty much get it. i may ask you. as i did with that poster, but only with your prodding, because i think it is evident

there was a poster on another thread. the OP was about the woman that just came out and what happened to her. he only had

oh the horror, the horror.

so i asked, you dont have a problem what she accuses cain of?

he answered. clarified.

i try to make sure before making accusations.

[The Doctor.]

83. It's happened to me.

Another reason I'm often offended by the blatant double standards around here. With notable exceptions.

It's the culture. I get it. But for anyone who cares about actual equality, culture is not an excuse to either 'not see' something (which is tantamount to 'not being able to imagine' it) or 'wish to see something'.

I've actually seen all forms of sexism and bigotry. I've also seen how the culture influences people to see sexism against women where it is not, and not see it against men where it is.

I get it. Most people cannot think independently of their cultural influences.

Shit, someone claimed that DU had a "Rape Culture" against women. Naturally, I objected strongly to that and demanded some kind of evidence. For that I was roundly ignored.

Double standards and hypocrisy absolutely disgust me.

[seabeyond]

86. i hear ya. but

as much as people like to label me a male hater, i would be the one saying that a man can absolutely be harassed. i dont put men on that all awesome sexual manliness swagger of whatever that so many people (including men) seem to preceive men as. i understand they are simply human, with all the behaviors and conditions and emotions as the other gender.

i often want to, or i do tell people, get a group of women together at a table and have a man walk in. have the women behave with that man the way men often do with women. watch him be uncomfortable walking across the room. it is no different. men are not immune to embarassment, humiliation anymore than women.

i would bet a lot of men would comment

oh give it to me. ya, sounds good. ect...

not a reality.

i hear what you say. but i speak up when i see it. and often am attacked for it as a hater.

reality is i have two sons. i have only men in my life. i think a hell of a lot of them

[The Doctor.]

103. It's really something.

I've been both in that equation. I've been the 'uncomfortable' one feeling as though the situation were entirely inappropriate and I've been perfectly comfortable with the attention. I've also been in a position where a woman had made very strong overtures, but when I returned them was made to feel wildly uncomfortable as though I had crossed some line.

Like so many other things (virtually everything) this has never been a 'black and white' issue for me. I don't think it is for the rest of the world either. Unfortunately, like so many blunt instruments, too many people still treat it that way. The truth is seldom uncomplicated

When I was 15, I was in a summer production of 'Brigadoon'. It was a blast, of course. These things usually were. There were two girls in the performance, best friends, very attractive, who would incessantly and very suggestively flirt 'at' me. They were both 20 years old.
At the time, I still didn't think of myself as being attractive to women, so their attention was a little overwhelming. I tried very hard to take it in stride. I won't lie, I liked it. But it was too much. I was shy to begin with, having been picked on and targeted by homophobic bullies (did I mention I was very 'pretty'?) I was still socially reclusive. So I simply didn't know how to handle their attention. For all the good it did my ego, it still felt wrong.

But, as a male, I was supposed to revel in it and 'man up' as though going through some sort of 'right of passage'.

I'm thankful not much happened, but there were moments that were, let's say... above my 'play' grade.


Since then, I've found that many women are very fickle when it comes to showing interest. It was bewildering sometimes. I'd find them practically throwing themselves at me one moment, and then completely cold even though I hadn't done anything, refused to do anything, or.... anything but hint that I was flattered. That's why I believe society is not always quick to condemn a man over accusations of harassment. Once again we encounter that place where the egregious offenders often get away with something because of a looong history of miscommunication between men and women. We know there are women who give every indication they seek a man's affection, but then reject him for attempting to follow up. If it hadn't happened to me on more than a few occasions (We're talking 'sitting on my lap and grinding for Christ's sake), then maybe I wouldn't understand it. What really sucks is how there are so many really great women, but the actions of some have tainted the view of the many.

Obviously, this very much goes both ways. I can't tell you how many times I've been treated like shit because of the way some men behave. I could write a manifesto on it. So I have a great deal of sympathy for the women that have to suffer because those that came before.

[seabeyond]

104. shoving a womans head in the crotch and saying, want a job, blow.

yes, a person could go all the way to situations you talk of and have a debate, harassment or not. we can do that with all things. but, i think what a huge issue is, a lot of men look at situations like that when discussing, thinking or speaking about harassment.

the harassment that is the issue and brought forward generally tend more toward "shoving a womans head in the crotch and saying, want a job, blow"

so, when there is a frustration of listening to man after man say, can't even compliment a woman anymore, no wonder there are rolling eyes.

fbi report says that it is UNDER 5% of rapes that are false accusation. so when discussing rape and the argument repeatedly turn to, what about the false arrest, then it is clear that it is more about dismissive attitude to rape.

" That's why I believe society is not always quick to condemn a man over accusations of harassment."

how many of those situations are causing firings, or lawsuits? they are not. they are personal experience that has not had any judgment, that leaves people confused on harassment

a blow job for a job. a blow job to keep a job. those are the things that cause a company problems. and it really is not confusing.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. I have heard of it, but never seen it. I have seen women harassed sexually countless times

I'd like to see men harassed sexually. And how does the sexual harassment of males take place, and where?

[WingDinger]

7. For a boy, all growing up is sexual harassment.

What with taunts of faggot, sissy, girl on and on, with fake gropes and all, it is most certainly harassment.

It is almost as if society is hardening us to our humanity. Almost as if they need us to be bloodthirsty soldiers.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. True, boys force other boys to not be gay. But what about men being sexually harassed the way women

are?

[stevedeshazer]

23. Me, to my lead assistant: "This is hard!"

She: "I really like that in a man."

Me: Backs away, makes mental note, 'stay out in the open'.

Look, I know women have it much worse when it comes to harassment. But it really does happen to men, too. And it makes me very uncomfortable.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

29. Who employs whom? Who holds the keys to whose job? nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

33. Who cares? That is inappropriate

Making that comment to your boss? Do you want to imagine the briar patch he could end up in if he decided to reprimand or fire her for that?

Finding it very interesting some of the very narrow definitions of sexual harassment all of a sudden.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

36. It's very important in a court of law. nt

[stevedeshazer]

41. I could not have done that without going through human resources.

Which would be extremely embarrassing.

I get the impression that Sarah believes men are all the same, that none of us would feel shame or embarrassment or have their job on the line by reporting this, just as a woman likely would.

[The Doctor.]

63. Your impression seems correct.

Some women don't realize that suggesting men are usually villains but never victims is as sexist as anything they accuse men of.

But when she said; "I'd like to see men harassed sexually", she very much crossed that line and exposed herself as a true misandrist.

[csziggy]

10. I've seen it in offices where older women are in charge

And have harassed young men. Often they think of it as kidding, but when it has a sexual component and makes the young men uncomfortable, it is harassment. Remember, many men think that suggestive comments and stories about sexual exploits are not harassment, just kidding around.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. I'd like to hear of one instance. I have heard it exists but have no clue of even what

the context might be, and don't know of a single case.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

26. I once overheard an office manager berate her male assistant....

...then tell him "Now turn around as you walk out so I can remember why I keep you around".

Now he hated that woman's guts, yet when I told him he didn't need to take that crap, he still felt it was a compliment.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. Now that's degrading and QUITE hostile and mean as hell. But did she grab him down there, or

make a suggestion that he show up at her house at such and such hour?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

32. Um....ok......

.....so what is your issue here......sexual harassment or sexual assault?

You mean to tell me if a man said what I overheard to a woman that would only be "degrading and quite hostile and mean as hell"?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

35. Harrassment. In a court of law, I believe sexual harassment involves...

sexual favors in exchange for being allowed to keep the job. (A boss coming on to a subordinate).

When a peer comes on to a peer, I believe it's the creation of a hostile environment, and the boss has a duty to fix the situation.

When a subordinate comes on to a boss, the boss simply has him or her fired.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. ...."the boss simply has him or her fired"

LOL. Really? I wouldn't fire any underling, no matter how powerless, if they had the gall to proposition people above them in the office without a ton of witnesses and documentation. "He came on to me first and it was mutual" is a heck of a weapon.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

44. Yep, because bosses hold the key to the job. The onus is on the boss, to prove innocence

if a subordinate is evil and accuses the boss of sexual harassment.

[Moosepoop]

70. Hostile work enviro IS A FORM of sexual harassment.

In a court of law, the creation of a hostile work environment due to unwelcome verbal or physical conduct does, IN AND OF ITSELF, constitute sexual harassment.

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-sex.html

Facts About Sexual Harassment

Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including but not limited to the following:

* The victim as well as the harasser may be a woman or a man. The victim does not have to be of the opposite sex.

* The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, an agent of the employer, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or a non-employee.

* The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct.

* Unlawful sexual harassment may occur without economic injury to or discharge of the victim.

* The harasser's conduct must be unwelcome.

You consider sexual harassment and hostile work environment to be two separate things. They are not. If the hostile work environment is due to conduct involving unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature (verbal or physical), then that conduct IS sexual harassment. In a court of law. Period.

[redqueen]

74. +1

[TheWraith]

31. A friend of mine was in a situation like that.

He was in his late 50s, and had a coworker in her early 40s. Their female supervisor had made a routine of lewd or offensive jokes and comments implying that he and the coworker were sleeping together (they weren't) even after they had each complained to her about it. She finally quit when he and the female coworker got together and told the supervisor that if she didn't back off, they would make an official complaint.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

45. Well, I don't know that that's sexual harassment. That's sure a hostile work environment. nt

[TheWraith]

58. When someone is making constant sexual remarks...

... I'm pretty sure it constitutes sexual harassment, unless you're going by a different and more interesting definition.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

88. I'm sure they're being sexually harassed. However, the way courts look at it involves

certain factors.

[WingDinger]

38. I was sexually harassed by the landlady. And when I said I would not have sex with her, she told me

To move. I said no. She said she would call her daughter, and her heroin addict boyfriend, will come and do me in. I said, good, I will kill his ass, then go for her. And even if I dont get to her, she contracted a killing, and would see first degree murder. She said stay till I find other housing. I said thank you.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

48. Her heroin addict boyfriend? Sheesh! omg nt

[pennylane100]

49. I know there have been lawsuits by male employees

William Sheard was employed by Lenscrafters and was awarded for sexual harassment by his female boss. You can google it, so it does happen. My mother was raised in Northern England and would explain behavior that seemed out of the norm by her favorite saying "There is nowt as weird as folk" I think it is a perfect description of human behavior.

[Mz Pip]

50. It happened to a guy friend of mine

though it was really more like stalking. He was being followed around by a woman who worked at the same place he did. He'd get suggestive notes from her and she would park in front of his house. It really creeped him out. At first he tried to talk to her but that didn't work; eventually he had to file a complaint and she was transferred to another location.

[Marr]

102. It's happened to me several times.

In my late teens and early twenties mostly. From a couple of older female bosses, and then once by a gay male boss. One of the women pretty flatly suggested that I'd get a bigger raise if I spent some time in her office regularly.

But I'll be brutally honest with you-- it never bothered me.

[Initech]

42. Verbal harassment in these cases is quite common.

I don't know about sexual - but verbal from people who are on power trips applies to both sexes. I've been on the receiving end of it for far too long and it does create a miserable environment for anyone.

[stevedeshazer]

22. The phone calls I got late at night from my employees, perhaps?

"Hey Steve, why don't you come over?"

When I answer the phone, sitting next to my wife on the couch.

Believe me, it happens.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. I was under the impression that...

sexual harassment consisted in that the submission to such a conduct (sexual performance) be *a condition of an individual's employment,* and that the rejection of such a conduct (sexual performance) would be used as *a basis for such employment.*

In other words, that the only person who *can* legally sexually harass is someone who is YOUR superior and holds the bargaining chip of YOUR job over you, and can take that job away.

I also believe a peer at work could engage in "creating a hostile environment," but not sexual harassment, since sexual harassment is something that involves an exchange ("your job in exchange for sex, or else you'll have no job").

[stevedeshazer]

34. We must live on different planets.

So harassment only comes from someone who holds a superior job position?

Thanks for trying, though.

I don't think we can communicate, so I'll just leave it at that.

:hi:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

37. Legally speaking. In a court of law. It's an inappropriate offer of exchange. nt

Now, if there's rape or actual assault, that's a whole 'nother story.

[LisaL]

46. Your definitions are way out of date.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

51. This is a far more accurate explanation...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=439&topic_id=2260423&mesg_id=2260423

[glowing]

60. No, It's basically anyone's comfort level with anything sexual in any nature.

A funny e-mail that most people think is light-hearted, may offend someone and that can be sexual harassment... Talking about sex with other co-workers can be harassment. Believe me, I'm a woman that came into positions after Anta Hill and the codes and training are quite clear. Its just better to shut your mouth at work, wait for Happy Hour if you want to make any plays for someone you may find attractive off the clock and those you may want to talk dirt with. Many places have a no fraternization policy now. My husband's work doesn't allow for any "couples" or family to work together.

[lumberjack_jeff]

80. No, employment extortion is only one potential factor.

If it's unwanted, and results in a hostile work environment, it's harassment.

[EOTE]

91. Your beliefs are totally and utterly wrong.

In the legal sense and any other sense you can come up with. I also believe you'd feel entirely differently if we were speaking of sexual harassment against a woman.

[The Doctor.]

61. Oh dear FSM.

You'd "Like to see men harassed sexually."

I'm guessing you have no idea how completely fucking sexist that was? You're an okay person, so an apology is acceptable, but that was WAY beyond the pale.

Want proof?

Is the following statement sexist?

"I'd like to see women harassed sexually."

If you can honestly say 'no', then it just means you don't take sexual harassment seriously. I've been harassed and it wasn't fun. I suppose I let it go because I was supposed to 'be a man' about it. But that's just more societal sexism, isn't it?

[seabeyond]

71. "I'd like to see men harassed sexually. " you want to see men sexually harassed?

or you would need to see it to better understand how men are sexually harassed. i could easily pick a man and sexually harass him if i chose. it is a matter of embarassing, humiliating, subjecting him. not all men are the swaggering confident dudes we like to portray all men as. younger men, boys are easier to do it with. any decent person wouldnt, though. but it can easily be done. anyone with power, male or female, can abuse that power

[madmom]

84. My husband was sexually harassed at works years ago. He was on

clean-up duty and had to go into a little cubby to get some crap out into the open and a female co-worker pushed her way into the cubby with him and stood where he couldn't get out. He couldn't stand upright (he's over 6') so complained about his aching back, thinking it would move her. She started giving him back and shoulder rubs all the way down to his butt. Similar things happened on several different occasions, until he reported her to their boss. She got all "huffy" and denied it, but was still put on notice or written up. She stayed away from him after that.
This did bother him to the point of him asking me and another friend what he should do, he tried avoiding her but she was always there. Almost like a stalker. This co-worker was also know to be having an affair with another married co-worker at the time. They didn't try to hide it at all. She was in our opinion a predator, looking for her next victim.

[Donnachaidh]

4. all sexual harrassment is about power.

It's not the act that drives this -- it's the power these pigs have to force another human being to do something they normally would not do.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

9. No it isn't

I've seen plenty of idiots with zero power sexually harass others.

[seabeyond]

12. not necessarily the power over someone in s supervisor role. can be someone on the same level

but he picks someone weaker, just as a bully does. it is the same as a bully only with a sexual bent for humiliation. and that is power over another.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

15. I've seen people with less power sexually harass someone

Of course, they got fired. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Besides, sexual harassment also occurs outside the workplace when people have no power/status connection to one another.

[seabeyond]

16. as i say, they try to pick the vulnerable ones to weild their power. same as rape. same as old men

going after young girls.

they are called .... predators.

[Cerridwen]

19. It's an attempt to exert power; real or perceived. The bigger the bully,

the more horrific the attempt. Most bullies/harassers are puny-spined, cowards attempting to prove their power over others. Bullies/harassers always aim for those they perceive as the "weakest" whether it be a woman if the bully/harasser is a man, an employee, or the family dog. Bullies and harassers try to make themselves "bigger" and more "powerful" by attempting to take power and/or lord it over others. If they did not do so much damage and if they did not cause so much pain, and in some cases death, I might be tempted to feel sympathy for them.

It is a dynamic of power-mongering.

[Donnachaidh]

52. it's also the attempt to have power of the other person

Some folks just don't want to admit people are that twisted. :shrug:

[Major Nikon]

56. All the more reason for them to do it in an attempt to gain power, no?

Besides it's pretty hard to imagine someone with zero power unless they are working in a complete vacuum. Even coworkers have power over each other to varying degrees.

[seabeyond]

11. exactly. i dont know why people dont get it. it isnt hidden or hard to see or subtle. nt

[Donnachaidh]

53. I personally think some people (especially some men) are just not capable of seeing it for what it

Is.

It's a power trip. Even IF there isn't violence involved - coersion<sp> is just as much of a power trip.

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. Sexual Harassment is Sexual Harassment. It doesn't matter if it's male or female. It's illegal. n/t

[salin]

6. it is all bad.

[stevedeshazer]

24. Yes.

Thank you, salin.

[kestrel91316]

8. IIRC it's rare, and of course lacks the implied threat of physical violence.

I suspect it's difficult for the average woman to tackle and rape an unwilling man.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Just like rape it happens just as often

And just like rape it's reported even less often. Anybody who says otherwise has no clue.

[redqueen]

76. Men are raped and sexually harassed at the same rates that women are?

Somehow I doubt that. I suppose that means that in your opinion, I have no clue.

Strangely, I have read quite a bit about these subjects, and despite the inclusion of the rapes that happen in prison and rapes of children, I haven't seen that claim substantiated before.

Do you happen to have any information which would back that up?

[Rabblevox]

18. Yes, men can be victims of sexual harassment. However, the power dynamic...

in play is hideously tilted towards men. It's wrong in either case, just not very common against men, incredibly common against women. Kind of like "reverse racism", I don't deny it exists, but I very much doubt the intent of someone who posts about it.

[WCGreen]

21. I had a superior make an advance on me when I was working

at the food company SYSCO.

All I did was say I am flattered that you are attracted to me but I feel any relationship between us would put us into a different working relationship.

This was back in 1984, three weeks before I was fired from the company because I got too drunk and couldn't make it out of bed to even call in sick and three weeks before I stopped drinking for good.

[Odin2005]

25. I was by other guys in the high school locker rooms.

Because I was accused of being gay and they were bullying me because of it. It got so bad that the school had me change in another room.

[bluestate10]

30. Women have limits. I have had several say inappropriate statements, but never

have I had one make inappropriate physical contact. The issue with the allegation against Cain is that he grabbed the woman.

[chemp]

47. I was hit on by male co-worker back in 1984

When I told him I wasn't gay and told him to stop, he continued for days. He was a waiter, me a sous chef.
When my girlfriend confronted him (I was 19 at the time) he said he would do us both for a shot at "my sweet ass"

I had to be restrained at that point. I got him fired.

Same job, a few moths later, I was doing inventory with my boss, the chef. he kept implying how great sex must be with my girl, and other waitresses. I repeated told him I was not comfortable with the conversation.
He persisted.
Within a week I had his job. and office.

I have never tolerated this.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

54. I have been sexually harassed, but I think it is a little different

There was only one woman who harassed me who I felt threatened by and it was because she was so unhinged that I feared she might be violent. The others were just some combination of horny, lonely and persistent combined with a belief that any male without another woman on his arm at that very moment was in play. The farthest that has ever gone is an unwelcome hand on my inner thigh or a not terribly subtle proposition.

I'm sure the maneaters are out there, but I suspect my experience is more typical.

[RZM]

55. Men are raped in prison every day

Often it happens because those in charge (i.e. the gangs) have free reign over the weaker/inexperienced inmates.

[akbacchus_BC]

57. Unless you are in a lower position and even then, you can say 'NO'

Most women do not have that option, trust me!

[aaaaaa5a]

59. According to this news article, 14% of all sexual harassment claims have male victims.

The news article also says the rate of men being sexually harassed is likely higher. But men are less likely to report abuse. (This is similar to domestic violence against men which is also much more prevalent than most realize but is vastly underreported.)




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35706595/ns/business-careers/t/more-men-filing-sexual-harassment-claims/#.TrjToXP6qNg

[DirkGently]

85. It does happen. Should be a tool for mutual understanding, not a bone of contention as some would

seem to want to have it.

We should be able to both acknowledge that this is an issue where males are overwhelmingly the attackers for well-known cultural and physiological reasons, without pretending women aren't capable of being attackers, or men ever threatened.

It's sexual aggression, dominance, and intimidation we're talking about. The fact that the tables are actually, if only rarely turned is a chance to foster better understanding, not a fight over who has it worse.

Women have it worse, whether it's quid pro quo because men are still more often the boss, or traditional cultural dominance, or pure physical threat.

But men can understand it. They can feel humiliated, dominated, deprecated. Women can intimidate, belittle, objectify. Our realities aren't balanced, but the truth of the thing is there for everyone to see.

[seabeyond]

87. geeez, i am going to start reading every. one. of your posts. balance.

i love balance.

grounded.

i love your posts

[DirkGently]

98. Thanks. I theorize we're smart enough here to discuss hard topics w/o the usual defensive crouching.

[stevenleser]

62. Have had many women make inappropriate comments over the years

I think they all assume it will be well received.

[Faithful One]

65. I think men don't report it as much because as you said, lots of people(mostly women) don't believe

that men can be harassed, not just harassers. It happens and it's real, just like men being raped by both other men and women.

Yet to the dominant society, it's no big deal. But we cry bloody murder if a woman is assaulted or harassed(as we should) but turn the other way when it happens to a man.

[lunatica]

67. Has anyone said it doesn't happen to men?

[redqueen]

77. A couple of people did imply it upthread, yes. (nt)

[DirkGently]

78. Yes. Upthread someone had never heard of a single case.

[Puzzledtraveller]

68. I have, by clients and co-workers

and it's equally uncomfortable, to me anyway. Coming out with it seemed to be a non-option though, false sense of masculine values predisposed me to not complain about it to superiors for fear of being weak or not manly.

[redqueen]

79. This is yet another major reason that this caricature of machismo needs to die now.

Actually it should have died out long ago.

It's so long past time for men to have their sexual revolution, and claim their right to be fully human and not just cartoon versions of he-men.

[seabeyond]

81. i LOVE your post. and you know what? my boys have not found they lost their manhood

in doing this. actually, they feel more manly and authentic and whole. lol

i love your post....

[DirkGently]

93. Our culture seems to be determindedly backsliding. A few pop culture examples ...

of mind-numbing macho idiocy that have recently seared my retinas:

The ads for (what I presume to be a movie) The Immortals are surreal.

http://www.immortalsmovie.com/splash/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VdONYkKFmQ

I think it's the "300" people again. Something about, "One man. One big, pointy spear. Mankind's only hope is that he will poke, poke, POKE his way to glory and victory! In 3D!!!"

:silly:

These films have somehow pushed beyond mere machismo into a strangely homoerotic blood frenzy. Just men. With other men. Killing things in a colorful, yet unearthly CGI environment. Yeah. If only life were a really gory video game that never ended.

The rightwing war on empathy has more serious implications, but the commerical world is getting downright bizarre. I saw a television ad last night for a version of Dr. Pepper that's "not for women." It was sort of self-parodying, with a guys 'n trucks 'n huntin' critters. But sort of not.

There's a new string of beer commercials, where picking the wrong beer is "the second unmanly thing you've done today harhaharhar!" Another has the barmaid suggesting the guy who ordered the "wrong" beer check his "purse."

Culture wants men to constantly question whether they're dumb enough, mean enough, or violent enough. Do you have a "Man Cave?" Do you drink the Man Beer? Do you hate the Chick Flick?

All fun and games, but also really, intensely stupid.

[redqueen]

95. I don't know if it's just fun and games.

I see it as very cynical marketing. Advertisers use our subconscious against us. Triggering fears and insecurities, and inspiring false hope to get us to spend money on the products they're paid to sell.

It is definitely getting more over the top/in your face, and to me it just smacks of Idiocracy. So in that way I agree that we've been backsliding for sure.

That said, though, I can't give up hope that this guy's efforts and the efforts of so many more like him will start paying off soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3exzMPT4nGI

So when I look away from the advertisers/media (and comments sections on just about any website, ugh), I see some glimmering signs of progress.

[DirkGently]

96. It's presented as a game to deflect how really cartoonishly nasty & weird these memes are.

I don't know that PEOPLE are becoming worse. But we've made our worst cultural tendencies into cognizable "brands" used to sell things.

I hope children are growing up with strong critical thinking skills and a well-developed sense for the ironic.

[redqueen]

100. Oh yes... definitely.

All just a big joke, ha ha... and woe betide the humorless/prude/womanized person who dares to challenge it... because most people do seem to be mostly still deeply invested in it for whatever reason.

Children who have parents who care to challenge these ideas, other people in their life who'll offer an alternative view, or those who are naturally intuitive and clever enough to figure it out for themselves will do fine. The rest will mostly absorb these messages, sadly.

[DirkGently]

97. Dupe. After weird server delay. (nt)

[seabeyond]

99. Tough Guise: Violence, Media & the Crisis in Masculinity

i liked every. single. thing. this man said. i agree. and once again... this is what i have been saying

repeatedly

damn, i am smart, lol

[redqueen]

101. LOL

:)

[SecularMotion]

82. I know it's bad for minorities when they are racially discriminated, but what about white people?

:silly:

[DirkGently]

94. I don't think the thoughts on male harrassment in this thread are offered in that vein at all.

I didn't see the comments on male harrassment in this thread as being knee-jerk majority group denial, like rightwingers concerned that the "Black Entertainment Channel" is oppressing them "just as much" as actual racism oppresses minority groups.

Looked to me more an observation that sexual harassment, while overwhelmingly a problem of men harassing women, is nevertheless a universal problem that anyone may experience.

[Iggo]

89. It's bad when people get sexually harassed. (n/t)

[LanternWaste]

90. I imagine that particular statistical aberration...

I imagine that particular statistical aberration is just as ethically starved as is when a female is the victim... :shrug:

[locahungaria]

92. Yes, men can be sexually harassed......

In fact just yesterday, one of my friends was telling me about an extremely uncomfortable situation that her boyfriend experienced over the weekend. It was more like "stalking" and receiving unwanted texting advances, but it was still slightly sexual in nature and made this guy feel really awkward and uncomfortable. The way she described it to me really kind of "creeped me out".

[SoCalDem]

105. Historically, it;s only recently that women were in a position of power at work

Sure, there are always anecdotal stories floating around about woman bosses who "seduce" their male underlings, but truthfully, even today, MOST bosses (with real power) are still male, and even with all the rules & regs, it's not unusual for them to push for "cute-young-gals" getting hired.

Women 18-30 (usually at their "cutest" in their lifetimes) also tend to be at the lower levels of the workplace ladder, and in a workplace setting where the bosses tend to be 40-50, it's no mystery why so many of them get "hit on"..

Most offices have no-fraternization "rules", but lots of people meet their eventual spouses/S.O.s at work, so it does go on, but when it's mutually acceptable between people of similar status/ages, it's called dating:)..and the relationships usually do not impact the advancement/employment of the participants (unless someone snitches on them and someone gets transferred/fired)..

When a boss hits on an underling, there is always a power-thing going on, and the underling's job is always at risk..