This isn't a mere recession, this is economic terrorism.

[Initech]

Terrorism works in more ways than just blowing shit up. George Carlin said it best - "The rich keep us fighting with each other, so that they can run off with all the fucking money." This is more evident now than ever. Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Sarah Palin, and their ilk are peddling their hate speech 24 hours a day, while companies are raking in billions, hoarding trillions, all for themselves. Paying out six and seven figure bonuses to the few who are lucky enough to get those jobs. The mere fact that the same guy owns both the controlling stake in Citibank and News Corp really says it all, doesn't it? Fuck you Prince Alalweed.

[tavalon]

1. Welcome to the class war

Many don't see it. We in poverty, low income and middle income need to band together based on economics not political persuasion. The rich find a million ways to get us to fight with one another and as long as we do, we don't fight them.

[FreakinDJ]

2. Finally some one "Who Gets It"

Keep the argument of Left and Right politics going so no one watches them steal our country

[leftstreet]

3. K&R

[Urban Prairie]

4. What choice do those on the left really have?

When most of those on the right are ready, willing and able to be used as tools for the wealthy?

Seeing an aged teabagger holding a sign condemning "socialism" is truly the epitome of irony.

[RandomThoughts]

6. Actually that is the same as your comment.

Since the 'socialism' they are commenting on is bought government. They just see the same problem in a different way, blaming government, while you blame those against government.

They think government is bad, because it has not fixed the same problems you see. They go after the bad in government, since they were told that is the problem, but probably for the same reasons you go after them.

They are getting many people to fight that lady, when she may be against the same thing as them. She was pointed at a target, and many others are pointed at her. Maybe try and find where you think the same things, and the same concepts of what should be done.

So your comment is correct, but it is really easy for anyone to do.


Here is the real question. Is it possible to get enough people to wake up, to overcome the damage done to those that wake up, when they stand for better ideas. That is actually most of it. If the side that goes against those that try to make things better were not limited, they would not need an authoritarian system, they would be able to do the same thing with democracy and openness. Their need for authoritarianism, and secrecy shows they have limited power, and specifically how to defeat them by what they defend the most.

Actually it fits in Karl Rove tactics. Go for there strengths, secrecy and authoritarianism, by ideas of education, democracy, and transparency.

[Javaman]

8. As long as the various alphabet agencies continue to use agent provocateurs

in various grassroot groups and or astroturf groups, we as a people will never ever coalesce into a formidable force to which the government must recognize.

There were many lessons learned from the Viet Nam era. One of which was how to keep the people down and allow them to vent enough so as not to blow up.

The internet, in many ways takes care of that. People can now protest "anonymously" on the net, (in quotes because of our governments need to control all things said and written on the net) as a way to vent their frustrations. Prior to the net, the only effective way to protest was via the newpapers (letters to the editors), but no one reads those anymore and the other was to actually march. But it's easier to just give over to momentary outrage and blast someone on the net. Once the outrage is expressed, it's on to the next youtube video or self obsessed inane comment on facebook or twitter.

The internet has done a very effective job of keeping people from expressing actual real concrete action, but it has also been a boon to fund raising, because no longer to you have to actually write a check. Just type in your donation without actually talking to someone or dealing with your opinion. It just vanishes into the magic happy machine leaving us with the false belief that we have "just done something good".

We are a nation of willful lemmings masquerading as informed and concerned citizens.

That's just how the powers that be want us.

As Pogo once said, "I have seen the enemy and they is us".

[RandomThoughts]

9. I understand that concept.

If you add to that information control, or isolation by groups, then there could even be less spreading of thoughts by something like the internet. Also there is less empathy building when communicating on internet.

However, if the internet really did those things, then prisons would have internet access. So they are not thinking that is the case, nor is there segmented Internets, as shown by it not being used against people in prisons.

Your comment is why I don't think posting has anything to do with effect, and is just something to do while on strike till someone figures out they need to correct the beer and travel money that is due to me.

And I also know they are content with me being being in a craptastic situation typing here, although some don't like that situation.

To think that something like me 'venting here' means anything is not what I think, it also assumes that it is me that will do things that will have needed effects, and it is not me that does things anyways, as I said many times, so weather I am here or not, that wont keep them from what they got coming, whatever that may be.

Although I wont do it.


So that paradymn is removed by knowing that it is not a person that makes the effect anyways, and that what is required to correct things will happen, without doing what a person disagrees with.

And I will have beer and travel money that is due to me.

[Javaman]

10. I think you contracted yourself in a way...

One of the main component's of a protest real or electronic is the shared empathy.

you wrote:

"If you add to that information control, or isolation by groups, then there could even be less spreading of thoughts by something like the internet. Also there is less empathy building when communicating on internet."

Less empathy leads to less understanding. Which only highlights my point about the ineffectiveness of "protests" on the net.

Cause and effect when posting only applies if there is an adequate follow up.

For example: a grassroots organization puts together a march. Then sets a date. People will or will not show up, depending on their outrage and relation to the problem.

While staging "protests" only on the internet serve no purpose other than to inflate ones ego on the belief that they are doing something. When generally speaking that "protest" is only seen by like minded people and not the general public.

I firmly believe that our freedom to protest has been daftly quelled via agent provocateurs that keep angry voices from not only becoming unified but also kept from the general public at large. Dovetail that with the mainstream press's under reporting or no reporting on the various smaller protests (hard to ignore the large ones on the mall in D.C. Although fox news made a valiant effort).

We have become a lazy nation. And that is writ large by how we all just roll over when yet another one of our freedoms gets completely trampled on.

As a result, we have become an apathetic nation whose only recourse for "polite outrage" is to vent via the net.

And while there are few general posting sites which allow the crazy and the not so crazy, most have moderators that delete various posts which do not agree with the parents site mission statement.

This is where a public forum would work wonders and would encourage open and free discourse, which I might add, is severely lacking.

This is why I believe the such irrational hate speech has sky rocketed. Like minded people filled with frustration and hate no longer get called out on their BS publicly, they sequester themselves with like minded individuals on like minded sites. Hearing the same mantra's repeated over and over.

Those once on the fence, now become zealots.

When all you have is an echo machine to express thought, then all you will get back is right answers.

[RandomThoughts]

14. I don't disagree with you, although posting on the internet can be about information.

While staging "protests" only on the internet serve no purpose other than to inflate ones ego on the belief that they are doing something. When generally speaking that "protest" is only seen by like minded people and not the general public.

Yea thats the segmentation.


And why control of media and pr is used on the general population.

If the Internet was capable of a correction to problems, someone would have corrected the beer and travel debt that is due to me.

And I use that example since it is within observation outside of some news of some event on TV and Internet.



The sad part is the amount of PR posts on the internet and TV also, that can move or distract from any real issues.

Here is the thing, I can explain some things that make alot of sense, yet people that can correct things will only see them from the perspective they want to see them, and will even rationalize there position based on their position. And I did not learn any of those things from TV or the Internet.

It is really interesting and from the lack of effect of posting on the Internet much is learned.

What I did learn is a technique, maybe called mines. Saw it in many songs and movies. The concept is putting much information in many things, but having it locked, so people see it but don't know it, and it gets in their mind. Thats how many of the songs work. Then after years of all the many pages of information getting into peoples mind, a small key unlocks it, and everybody knows the information they been learning for years without knowing it.

However over the last year many of the songs and clips have been changed to say different things, then the information becomes the manipulation of information in many places, even if it adds noise to redirect.

A pretenders clip I played, I don't remember that as the original video on that topic, and would have remembered that video if that was what was on TV. So it was either scrubbed back then, or changed recently to change the meaning of the song.

But the topic becomes the censoring of information. Until there is no way to even know what on the news or Internet is real or false. And from that all information sources by money become completely uncredible, and other forms of communication, like in real life, become necessary.

[Javaman]

15. It sounds like you are referring to the manipulation part of propaganda...

There are many facets to to propaganda, many of which aren't pure manipulation. However, all can be traced to such.

The willful scrubbing of information has been going on as long as information has been available to the public. But it appears to have been made easier via the net. Unless someone saves a cashed version of a particular site or web page, the original information is lost forever.

Look at sarah palin site or sharon angels site. Both were quickly scrubbed after both uttered hate rhetoric in an effort to cover their asses.

However, both sites are closely monitored by various people and original versions of their hate messages are saved.

Like any good society that employees freedoms, those freedoms are only as good as the people who stand behind them and protect them. A lazy society loses out due to inactively. Trusting a government of any sort to be the paragon of rights protections is foolish. All the rights that we enjoy are there because we the people fought to keep them. I'm not talking about wars, I'm talking about marching and protesting.

And this gets back to my original point. We are only as good as our own voice. If we continue on this apathetic tact, then we only have ourselves to blame for the loss of our rights and freedoms.

And this dovetails in to what, I believe you were saying, information can be scrubbed and put down the memory hole, but is up to us to keep resurrecting it to show that that same information hasn't vanished and is still relevant to the conversation.

Once we allow others to dictate the message, we are complete at a loss and no longer have a voice.

[Initech]

7. Especially since most of them dont know what true socialism is.

[musette_sf]

5. K&R

[ljm2002]

11. “Yes, as through this world I've wandered ...

... I've seen lots of funny men; Some will rob you with a six-gun, And some with a fountain pen”

-- Woody Guthrie

[Initech]

12. So true. So true.

[live love laugh]

13. ...And I believe that even next year's threatened $5 gas prices fit nicely with your theory. nt

[Odin2005]

16. The inherent violence of Capitalism.

No war but the Class War.

[ipaint]

17. And no need for rendition when the long term jobless and the poor are

economically disappeared while the comfortable classes wait until enough are gone to declare a full recovery and a robust economy. Can't create jobs well get rid of those who need them. Problem solved.