Seymour Hersh: NeoCon Crusaders, Opus Dei, Iraq, Mosques to Cathedrals

[SpiralHawk]

The existing GD thread on the article in Foreign Policy about Seymour Hersh gets all caught up in some of the rhetoric Hersh used in speaking about Obama. Interesting. But not nearly as interesting, or important, as this ugly reality...

"..He (Hersh) also charged that U.S. foreign policy had been hijacked by a cabal of neoconservative "crusaders" in the former vice president's (Cheney's) office and now (NOW NOW NOW NOW) in the special operations community...

"...Hersh then brought up the widespread looting that took place in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003. "In the Cheney shop, the attitude was, ‘What's this? What are they all worried about, the politicians and the press, they're all worried about some looting? ... Don't they get it? We're gonna change mosques into cathedrals. And when we get all the oil, nobody's gonna give a damn.'"

"That's the attitude," he continued. "We're gonna change mosques into cathedrals. That's an attitude that pervades, I'm here to say, a large percentage of the Joint Special Operations Command."

He then alleged that Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who headed JSOC before briefly becoming the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, and his successor, Vice Adm. William McRaven, as well as many within JSOC, "are all members of, or at least supporters of, Knights of Malta...

"...Many of them are members of Opus Dei," Hersh continued. "They do see what they're doing -- and this is not an atypical attitude among some military -- it's a crusade, literally..."

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/18/seymour_hersh_unleashed

[iamtechus]

1. "...Many of them are members of Opus Dei,"

And from the article, "are all members of, or at least supporters of, Knights of Malta.", would explain much. I hope Seymour has not just gone off the deep end.

In the past, Hersh has written and said a lot of things that seemed pretty wild at the time but turned out to be true.

[SpiralHawk]

4. Hersh has a solid track record

He's made mistakes, but he's basically been accurate, courageous, and trustworthy.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. One current Opus Dei member worth noting is Joseph E Schmitz.

One current Opus Dei member worth noting is Joseph E Schmitz. A former Pentagon inspector general, he became chief of operations for Blackwater Worldwide, the private security firm, back in 2005. While at the Pentagon, he'd been tasked with the job of overseeing all war contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan. His connection to war profiteers became well known. At least $2 trillion went "missing" from the Pentagon during his watch. Shortly after Schmitz exonerated his friends in the war industry, he announced that he was going to work for Blackwater, where he is today.

In a 2004 speech Schmitz said, "No American today should ever doubt that we hold ourselves accountable to the rule of law under God. Here lies the fundamental difference between us and the terrorists." Aside from his membership in Opus Dei, Schmitz is also a member of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, a Christian militia formed in the 11th century, before the first Crusades, with the mission of defending territories that the Crusaders had conquered from the Muslims. The Blackwater leadership apparently think they are following in that tradition.


http://www.ww4report.com/node/6601

[social_critic]

29. I believe Opus Dei is against the Iraq War

As far as I know, the catholic leadership is opposed to the Iraq war. Pope John Paul II stated he was opposed to the war, and this aligned the leadership. Therefore Catholics who support the war can consider themselves to be good candidates to go to hell, because they are not following the Pope's leadership. This would include Opus Dei, of course, because they are a catholic organization.

[Ichingcarpenter]

34. Did you just make things up? Did you read my thread above you?

Good Grief, the truth and news is there if you search a bit.

[SharonAnn]

43. Opus Dei is about gaining and holding power. Nothing else.

[deutsey]

2. 8 or 9 neocons overthrew the American government

"What I'm really talking about is how eight or nine neoconservative, radicals if you will, overthrew the American government. Took it over," he said of his forthcoming book. "It's not only that the neocons took it over but how easily they did it -- how Congress disappeared, how the press became part of it, how the public acquiesced."

[formercia]

3. Told you so.

KOM was in the thick of it. Lots of them are Banksters too.

[Scruffy1]

8. What's a KOM?

[formercia]

9. Knight of Malta

The same group that tried to oust FDR in 1933.

[Exilednight]

12. Eric Prince, former head of Blackwater, claims to be a KoM. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Which is why Cheney is now an Obama supporter

Amazing.

[dionysus]

15. !

:spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray::spray:

[malaise]

6. K & R

Dumbya did use the word 'Crusade'

[Enthusiast]

13. He wasn't supposed to let the cat

out of the bag.

[Poboy]

7. Recommend

[Nihil]

11. Thanks for the re-post ...

... after the train-wreck of the other thread thanks to the disruptors.

(And yes, focussing on a single word - to the exclusion of everything else
that was said - is indeed disruptive.)

[formercia]

14. The boys don't like being exposed

when they do, the minions are sent to bury it.

They threatened me personally when I tried to expose them.

[Octafish]

18. Bodyguard of Liars

From Hersh:

"I've given up being disillusioned about the CIA," Hersh said. "They're trained to lie, period. They will lie to their president, they will lie certainly to the Congress, and they will lie to the American people. That's all there is to it."

Not you, though, formercia. Still haven't gotten over the image of "Wild Bill" Casey stuck looking out through the trap door of the Halifax. Now that's intelligence -- cough, ahem, saving himself to help us later, cough, I mean, cough, gak, of course.

[formercia]

23. The lies are what got to me.

There are 3 kind of Lies at CIA:

The lies you tell to people on the Outside,

Lies you tell to people on the Inside,

and then there are the Lies you tell yourself.


I was tired of being lied to.

[formercia]

27. "saving himself to help us later"

He had a fascination with ops. My father rarely talked about it, having been at the point of the spear. He never got over it.

Casey was just a glorified REMF.

[hootinholler]

32. Sounds like a good story I've not heard yet

Halifax is a bank, no? Is this BCCI related?

-Hoot

[formercia]

35. Halifax is a WWII British bomber

The OSS agents would parachute from the belly of British bombers at Night from 700 feet. Since the bomber flights were common, nobody paid much attention to them as they flew their missions, unless they were at the target. The agents would sit around a hole in the floor of the bomber and when the plane reached the drop point, they would drop out in quick succession as to not get scattered all over the countryside.

[hootinholler]

39. LOL

I couldn't have been farther off. Thanks.

-Hoot

[formercia]

41. It was a good try...

At least, nobody accused you of being a conspiracy theorist.

[hootinholler]

42. I prefer coincidence theorist

Conspiracies happen all the time. Some legal, some less so.

Coincidences are better fodder for theories and are generally the starting point for unraveling conspiracies.

The problem is weeding out the well placed disinformation, sorting the schlameils from the schlamozels, if you will.

If I had half a mil, I would start a warehouse project to mine the nsarchives. Why not do to the christians in action what they are doing to us?

-Hoot

[formercia]

47. Hold on to those archives.

The NET is being scrubbed as we speak.

[hootinholler]

48. They are not mine

They are housed at GWU. I have a rudimentary DB application to store a relational matrix between entities, and the next steps are to add user authentication to it, and then to write a FireFox extension to make adding relationships to it easier than cut and paste. It's pretty naive in it's fundamental approach, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as in my field, elegance is often found in simplicity.

If I only had funding, I could do that full time and build a tool that is useful to others looking at the relationships beside coincidences.

-Hoot

[bobthedrummer]

51. Truthtellers/dissenters are on someone's political enemies lists and/or threat matrix anyway n/t

[formercia]

52. Their hounds don't work for free.

The more the merrier.

Let's all take them on a wonderful Snipe hunt.

[SpiralHawk]

16. Fortunately, Pope Ratzinger (R) is infallible...

...so we can all kick back, rest our exclusive Bruno-Maggli-shod feet on an ottoman, and revel in the security of knowing this Oil Profits Crusade will continue to bring joy and merriment to all...

[malaise]

19. You find some great pics

:hi:

[Overseas]

17. K&R. Here's more on the Christianization of the US Military

From Jeff Sharlet Jesus Killed Mohammed / The Crusade for a Christian Military
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488

And the group trying to resist that trend, the military religious freedom foundation:

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

[social_critic]

30. Maybe the best thing to do is close down the Pentagon

And jest have a well armed militia. I'm starting to get very concerned with the generals, some of them look like prime candidates for military dictator. Petraeous and the others are scary.

[yellowwood]

20. He's right on target

Listen to Seymour Hersh. He warned us about Iraq.

[Odin2005]

21. This is what Fascism looks like.

[formercia]

22. Von Papen, Knight of Malta and chancellor of Germany

was the one who put Hitler in power.

We know how that worked out.

[robcon]

24. Hersh's conspiracy theories show me that he's lost it.

A fine investigative reporter has gone over the edge.

[SpiralHawk]

25. If you are going to 'claim' one of our top investigative reports has 'lost it'

you better toss at least a scintilla of evidence into the pot.

Otherwise, it just sounds like Standard SockPuppet DysInforNothingNess.

[Octafish]

26. All one has to do to destroy someone's reputation is to apply the label: 'conspiracy theorist.'

For too many, it serves to close the mind. Case closed. Final judgment. End of discussion.

The Central Intelligence Agency, the group responsible for applying that appellation for that purpose, wanted to deflate speculation about a conspiracy in regards to the assassination of President Kennedy. That organization especially wanted to deflect any attention from investigators who found connections between people apparently associated in some capacity with the agency, including Lee Harvey Oswald, and the assassination. Despite the law to open the JFK assassination records, these efforts by CIA continue to this very day.

For the benefit of those interested in the subject of truth: Countering Criticism of the Warren Report. To them, I say, "Thank you. The truth will set us free."

[SpiralHawk]

28. Thank you for your careful view on this Octafish

I do have the feeling that lots of INTERESTS would like to pretend that Hersh is off the reservation -- but the vast preponderance of evidence supports the perception that he is -- one again -- absolutely accurate.

Something very occult and very ugly is going on with this darkside Crusade that American and Americans were LIED into, and which has cost untold lives, maimed thousands, and cost US taxpayers billions upon billions while War Profiteers have been VASTLY ENRICHED.

This is not a Right or Left or even Libertarian issue. It goes WAY beyond any of that...

[LanternWaste]

36. Which appears precisely the MO of the story in the OP.

Which appears precisely the MO of the link stories in the OP. :shrug:

[formercia]

31. Not by a long shot

I used to work with those assholes.

[sabrina 1]

44. I'm sure people said that about him back when he exposed

the crimes in Vietnam.

I know they were saying it, because I saw if for myself, when he told us about the rape and murder and torture of women and children in Iraq by the U.S. I had a hard time accepting that at the time, but it turned out to be true. Btw, where are those videos, the ones that made certain Senators like Linsey Graham turn white and experience a short period of horror at what his country was doing? Oh yes, they cannot be seen, even Rumsfeld was frightened of them ever being released. Of course Graham is back on board now.

Hersch was right ~ he has some pretty good sources and he's rarely wrong. I remember him saying that he was frightened for this country a few years ago. And he looked frightened when he said it.

I would never dismiss anything he says.

He is NOT the one who has lost it.

[Poboy]

33. .

[bobthedrummer]

37. The only tinfoil today is wrapped around leftovers. Kick for truth. n/t

[formercia]

40. ain't that the truth.

So much for conspiracy theories.

[al bupp]

38. Too late to the party to recommend it...

so I'll have to be content to kick it.

[Capitalocracy]

45. Anyone know of a recording of this lecture?

I'd be grateful to anyone who could link that up. Thanks.

[NuttyFluffers]

46. "Apparently, “conspiracy stuff” is now shorthand for unspeakable truth." -- Gore Vidal

thought this'd be appropriate here.

:smoke:

[Poboy]

49. Good quote.

[bobthedrummer]

50. Championship playoff weekend kick n/t

[bobthedrummer]

53. ^