Through the looking glass, occupy san diego

[nadinbrzezinski]

Well I have been making a point of talking to different people when I go to Occupy to get a feeling of what is going on. I mean I want to capture the zeigeist of the place and where they want to go to. First off, let me tell you, today was WEIRD, in many ways and it had to do with the people I got to talk to. They ranged from some of the resident long term homeless who have bona fide psychiatric conditions, that should be in a medical setting... all the way to the hard core, (two of them) Republicans in the group.

But first let me tell you about something that really weirded me out. Tonight it was theater night. No I am not kidding, So patrons were coming for a nice dose of high kultur, and walking by the ... homeless encampment and heavy police presence. Now four of the occupiers were working on signs at the steps kitty corner from the main entrance, and the people, dressed for the theater, were filing in. So a lady, well meaning and well dressed, came over to the occupiers, I was busy taking a few photos She engaged them, politely. She told them that yes, they have made their point, it's time to go home. Now these kids, average age for this group... oh I'd say 27, got a tad pissed and went over their points including the fact that they were homeless. It was pretty one sided, and you could feel the rage... I know as an observer I should not intervene, and I was mostly observing, but I also noticed cops getting more alert. So I thanked her for her concerns and talked the situation down. I also reminded these kids that in a conversation both have to be able to put a word in edge wise. Why am I putting at the begging even though it was at the end... warning signs I am seeing... of a higher level of militancy in the group. In fact, I was told by a few of the other people I engaged today that people are ready for some violence. In fact, one went insofar as to how outgunned the cops will be... more on him in a minute. He was truly a WTF person

Another person I met today is one of the 99%, she self identifies this way. She also has a very serious eating disorder and is taking meds for psychiatric problems, I did more of let's try to get you on the way to cheap housing. She concerns me since she is the kind of person that in a society with medical care for all, she'd receive the care she desperately needs. I am afraid she is well on her way to become a statistic... and I feel pretty shitty that there is nothing I can do about it, beyond listening, and I mean listening. That is where that medical training came in. I will not go further on her needs, at the risk of saying too much. Suffice it to say... there are way too many of these people, I call the invisible crowd.

Then there are other regulars I have met in the past. One was happy. he was with his fellow americans. What he wants are changes where his grandkids can have medical care and opportunity. He is a trucker. He can't run his trucks right now due to the high cost of diesel. He is also a vietnam era vet, and what he wants is economic justice, medicare for all, and a better world for all of us. When I asked him how long do you think this will take? He gave me a time line of five years. In fact, he is being honest and realistic. He does not expect instant change since instant change is impossible. One of the jolliest people I have known and very serious.

Then there was the person who told me he held a PhD in economics. Well my personal opinion, after realizing he was an economic libertarian... and giving him a very Keynseian economic prescription for the economy, that he did not recognize, that perhaps he does not have a PhD... but he is pretty hard core about having some folks who simply can't take care of themselves and are druggies and all that, and if they cannot take care of themselves, maybe we should let them die. I have heard those arguments in the past and I got beyond the arguing morality a long time ago. And as I said I am there mostly as a reporter... so I try to avoid letting emotion get in the way. He also told me that the left did not work. Of course I asked how can the left work when we really, as a nation have never tried that? Then he said well all these people are commies. Which led to my famous adage, I've known real commies and socialist too, and nope, that is not what most of these people want from what I have been able to gather.

Now here comes the real treat of the night. I met a real conservative who gave me the definition, small government, pro constitution and you have to be christian. Now I did not really want to discuss much with him, but so it goes, He is homeless,He kept talking about them, the homeless, and I reminded him that he was too. He also admitted that many of these people are VERY INTELLIGENT and the place is not just full of hippies and druggies... oh and he was arrested by the cops the night of the raid. He is also Native American. He is the one though that warned me that more radical elements are coming in and things will go violent. He also tried to lecture me on why we need to further lower the taxes of the job creators. So I again went into a classic Keynseian argument about roads, and using them for building jobs and all that. But, but who pays taxes? Now he does not have that much of a problem if we raise the taxes on BoA, which of course the fact they paid no taxes last year has to do with corruption. After a good half an hour, point is, those of you who think we do not have this in the encampments is dreaming.I knew we did, but today I met them.

I also talked to an immigrant who put it plainly, we are not against capitalism... I want to be in the same economic place I was when I first came to this country... right before the Reagan years.

And yes I felt a tad more anger... even in the dangerous area. I am watching textbook radicalization taking place in front of my eyes. Oh and drug use, sure it's there and anybody surprised? I know I am not. In fact I saw some use of weed, and crack cocaine, in plain daylight... with a good oh... ten police cars and twenty five officers.

But these places have people from all political persuasions. They are all convinced that the system, whatever happens to be their particular version of the system, has screwed them up. I think tomorrow I will have to expand on my notes. Yes I am still taking them...

Oh and photos soon as soon as I get them out of el cheapo at usual place.

Photos

http://nadinbrzezinski.posterous.com/occupy-san-diego-through-the-looking-glass

[socialist_n_TN]

1. RE: the radicalization.........

I knew that was coming. That's the way these types of movements go when the power structure ignores their gripes and fights them. I also think that violence is inevitable as long as the exploiters are allowed to continue to exploit and the cops back them up with violence AGAINST protesters. You can only be hit so many times by a billy club and not eventually hit back.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I know and the process is very predictable

I make a point to go for obvious reasons. It is history. But at one point I will have to make a decision, join them or stay home... personal safety might become an issue... I hope my internal radar from having been in pretty shitty situations remains well calibrated. We are not there yet...

[socialist_n_TN]

3. Nope not there yet.........

But they ARE pushing it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Well the weird one though was talking to two

pretty hard core economic libertarians, members of the lower tax club... preaching that when one is already in the streets. That was in the really weird place. I know that is one reason why my notes on this tomorrow will have to grow by leaps and bounds.

Also the red baiting, was so... grapes of wrath era... I got flashbacks to novels of THAT period.

[socialist_n_TN]

5. I hope you thought of me when you said you knew

Marxists and communists and that those kid weren't. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You and my high school sociology professor

and my art history professor.

My HS Sociology prof was the General Secretary of the Communist Party in Mexico City, and he had a masters in Poli Sci. Taking sociology from him was interesting, I mean the Comte was sprinkled with Marx.

My Art history teacher was a refugee from Franco's Spain and a Social Democrat. The arguments between those two as to how to get to nirvana or heaven or what have you were quite possibly the best ever political education one could ever have.

Then I had my supposedly marxist sociology teacher in college here. She was shocked when I broke it to her. She was no marxist.

No serious, she wasn't... we used to have a name for them in Mexico City, old European joke... she was a radish, all red on the outside, but lilly white inside.

I still got my A... I did that after she turned in grades.

So no, those kids and older men and women are NOT marxists.

[AsahinaKimi]

9. Did you see the video clip on DU first page?

The one of the Cal Berekley kids standing up to the cops? They didn't hit back, but after being struck jumped back in there wanting them to do it again, and again.. to make people see just how much they would resist.. And the cops finally backed down. They must have known that what they were doing was making them look bad, ..that and the chant. "STOP BEATING STUDENTS!"

Made me proud to be a Cal Bear!!!! GO UC BERKELEY!


This clip: http://youtu.be/buovLQ9qyWQ

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Yeah I saw it

interesting one... berkeley is famous for shit like that.

[upi402]

13. Those students are heroes. The police were cowards.

:grr:

[WillyT]

7. K & R !!! - Thank You For Your Reporting !!!

Only been to Occupy Sacramento twice, but yeah... it runs the gamut... and some are ready for escalation.

Hope everybody keeps a cool head, but...

:shrug:

:hi:

:kick:

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Sooner or later "leaders" will emerge

because of this.

[nashville_brook]

11. this sounds a lot like Orlando -- a real cross-section and some crazee

we had a hell of a GA tonight. big fireworks big proposals big night.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I came home before the GA... could not stay

but this is a cross section of Occupy methinks...

We should all compare notes on local occupies to get the national flavor of this.

[sabrina 1]

14. It's very different from the Ventura group I went to.

Most were either young people, twenties and thirties, or older retired people, like the teacher who was there for her grandchildren. I saw no sign of violent intentions very much the contrary and no police at all, although that was about two weeks ago.

I am sure as this grows it will represent all kinds of people, as it will be a microcosm of society. But watching the livestreams from around the country, I don't see much evidence of what you saw in Diego. Most are very committed to non-violence, and I haven't, in 53 days of observing them, ever heard anyone condone violence. Maybe you should report this to the organizers. It sounds like some of those people need care and just hanging around because they have needs. In Zuccotti Park eg, they have set up counselors to handle these issues and have info on where they can get help.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. One does not make all

but I saw sigs of radicalization, Now that does not mean it will go violent necessarily, Ghandhi's revolt was very radical... and non violent.

As to Ventura, well san diego has had fun with SDPD, a department I can hardly recognize anymore, from word go.

[sabrina 1]

18. I hope it remains peaceful, but that will depend on the

officials who are in charge right now.

[starroute]

16. Ryan Deveraux tweeted some interesting things earlier

He's the Democracy Now reporter who's been following OWS closely. He had a series of tweets this afternoon about tensions in Zuccotti Park -- people getting testy and shoving to get closer when Crosby and Nash were singing, then conflict over a plan to replace the small tents with larger communal ones. And then he tweeted this -- but without further explanation:

https://twitter.com/#!/RDevro/statuses/134393233550749698

In recent weeks the #OWS movement in NYC (organization, decision-making) & the scene at Liberty Sq have become really distinct entities.

https://twitter.com/#!/RDevro/statuses/134394305874894849

Fewer organizers are spending significant time in the square, while less full-time occupiers seem like committed-to-the-movement types.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I'd have to say that there is some of that going on here locally

I have been following my local occupy from the person to person perspective and getting the stories... but I can tell there is a tension.

[Liberty Belle]

19. Middle-Class Women Support Occupy San DIego: Press release just received

Disturbing to hear about the radicalization...but here come some moderating forces of reason! If you go can you get us photos?


Middle-Class Women Support Occupy San Diego

Rally and press conference this Saturday afternoon

More than 50 middle-class women from throughout San Diego County will hold a press conference and rally in the Civic Center Plaza at 4 p.m. this Saturday, Nov. 12, to announce their support for Occupy San Diego.

What began with a few friends a week ago has snowballed as women are signing up by the dozens on Facebook and in other ways.

“We want to show that we are part of the 99% demanding change in this country, although we’re not sleeping in the plaza,” said Kristen Smith, of North Park. “We are fed up with the concentration of wealth and power in the top 1%, and we support the brave young people who are so dedicated to reforming our system.”

The women taking part are moms, professional women, veterans, senior citizens or middle-aged, married or single, from many occupations and areas –connected simply by their support for the Occupy Wall Street movement.

At the 4 p.m. press conference, the women will deliver wheelbarrows of food and supplies to donate to Occupy San Diego, and several women will speak about their personal stories. The event will take place rain or shine.

Many women who cannot attend this Saturday are signing up to be involved with the group for future actions.

[socialist_n_TN]

20. Actually those are the ones who WILL be radicalized

by the capitalist overreach.

One thing that MANY people forget, none of this is new. Any historical study of political movements will show these trends. As nadin and I discussed in the initial subthread, radicalization happens over a period of time when the power structure resists the necessary changes. And the more violent the resistance to change, the quicker and the farther the radicalization goes. All it would take would be a couple of police riots and no changes to the status quo and a significant number of these soccer moms will become economic radicals. Socialist and communists. Pink to Red. It's inevitable.