10,000 Penn State students riot over Paterno firing...great..

[MnFats]

what does this say to the victims? Could PSU get a few hundred anti-war demonstrators into the streets....?

www.post-gazette/news


"We don't care(about the allegations," says one demonstrator. "We're mad."

but by the way, how do the cops/administration/others know all in the crowd are students???

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

1. and if one of hose little boys had been their brother ?

fired - jailed would be more appropriate.
how is this any different then the bishop not turing in the molesting priest ?

Jail Jail Jail.

[markpkessinger]

3. It's a little bit more complicated in this case ...

... because Paterno did report it to his superior, as required by law. But it's the moral question that really looms.

[Skidmore]

5. When someone witnesses a rape in progress

1) that person should call the cops
2) that person's superior should call the cops if informed.

It is a crime. Period. Moral question? That 10 year old boy didn't need adults to quibble over university policy. He needed the adults in the environment to protect him.

[timtom]

43. My daughter, my wife, and I totally agree with you.

[Lucinda]

50. He wasn't the one who witnessed the attack was he?

I had heard someone reported it to him, and then he took than information and reported it. Do you have a link to him seeing the attack? There is so much info flying around that I must have missed it.

[TheWraith]

56. No, he didn't witness it. He still should have called the cops.

And not doing that, or taking any other action, strongly hints that he knew about Sandusky's behavior and deliberately helped cover it up.

[npk]

55. But Paterno was not the witness

He did not witness the rape or molestation. He was informed by a student, who came to his home late one evening. According to school officials and police interviews, Paterno notified his superiors about what this student had told him. Paterno later stated that he was told that his superiors had notified the police and that an investigation would be launched. OF course that was a lie as his superiors never reported the matter to police. Could and should Paterno have done more? It's very difficult to say. Because we don't know exactly what Paterno was told by his superiors. There are a lot of people to blame here.

[markpkessinger]

57. Paterno's was a MORAL crime, not a legal one

By reporting what he heard to the athletic director, Paterno fulfilled his obligation under PA law. That's a fact. Should he have done more, from a moral standpoint? Absolutely, and I'm not excusing him on that level. But law does not trade on moral outrage. You might think the law should be different from what it is, but under existing law, what Paterno did was not a crime. PERIOD.

[MadHound]

9. As a teacher, if I had a report like that in my school,

I would be legally and morally obligated to call the cops with it. If I didn't, I would be fired and possibly arrested myself.

Why is Paterno held to a lesser standard than a public school teacher?

[Skidmore]

11. Joe Paterno is in fact a public school teacher also.

He teaches at a public college. He is subject to the same reportability as any other teacher and deserves to be punished for not adhering to those standards.

[TorchTheWitch]

17. At the age of 84???

I'm willing to bet cash money that at his ripe old age he isn't a teacher anywhere. Hell, he hasn't been an actual COACH for over a decade but a figurehead with a title.

[Eddie Haskell]

13. Easy to say, but ...

I think 99% of teachers would tell their principal. Next time one of your kids tells another child that they're going to kill them, I bet you won't go to the police.

[Rebubula]

19. Apples and Buicks

Kids tell other kids all the time that they will kill each other. I know I told more than one kid when I was 10 that would happen.

Raping a 10 year old in the shower is a bit different.

But...thank you for coming in and showing where you stand on this issue....Mr. Haskell. Interesting name considering you seem to be sucking up to Joe Paterno right now as if he were Mrs. Cleaver.

[piratefish08]

30. yeah. that's the same as fucking a 10 year old in the ass.

[Eddie Haskell]

44. Yes ... If the child acts on the threat, and kills a classmate.

And remember, Paterno didn't see this act himself. No one knows exactly what he was told, but there must be a reason the authorities have not charged Paterno.

[TorchTheWitch]

22. That one question has been driving me nuts

And I can't find an answer to it anywhere. I just do not see why he had no legal duty to contact police and only his superiors did.

[onenote]

33. Here is the law

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/domestic-relations/00.063.011.000.html

As I read it, it didn't require Paterno to go to the police. It may not even have legally required him to go to his superiors.

That doesn't forgive the failure to report this to the authorities -- a failure not only by Paterno, but also the AD, the University President, the grad student who witnessed the act, the father of the grad student who was told about it that night --- it just means it probably wasn't a crime.

My deeper disgust rests with those who years earlier let Sandusky's behavior slide: the police, investigators, and DA that all had heard him admit on the phone to engaging in predatory behavior, the mother of that abused child who let the matter drop when the DA didn't pursue it, and the part time janitor who witnessed Sandusky in action in 2000 but ignored advice that he report it to the authorities.

[Rebubula]

15. No...

...no it is not. It just seems complicated because he is famous. This is no different than the Hollywood crowd defending Roman Polanski.

If you know someone has raped a child - YOU have to keep on top of it until the truth comes out.

Joe Paterno KNEW...he FUCKING KNEW this asshole had raped a kid ON PENN STATE GROUNDS! Yes....he told his supervisors. SO FUCKING WHAT? When nothing happened - he needed to take it to the next level.

This was a CYA situation and Joe covered his own ass.

Fuck him, The Penn State admins that knew about this and damn Sandusky to hell (not that I believe in shit like afterlife and hell).

[Whisp]

39. I don't know all the details that were posted here but...

if Paterno did report it to his superiors and nothing was done within a few days, a few weeks, a few months, years?
Then it was his obligation to take it to the authorities himself.

I give no excuses to him. He is an accomplice to child rape because if he did what he should have, some kids may not have had to go through that hell.

fuck him. Who cares about a stupid sport compared to the suffering. People are just too nuts about sports and this just proves it.

the world is mad.

[aquart]

2. WTF are they teaching those kids?

[global1]

6. Just Look Around You - Think About The Repug Debates & Look What People Are Cheering Or Booing At...

This is where the kids are learning this stuff. Our society is screwed up. Think 99% vs the 1%'ers. Think of who gets rewarded these days. Jack Abramoff was on Lawrence last night. He's now being revered for what he did to us. The bankers got rewarded. George W Bush and Cheney aren't in jail. How about Herman Cain the serial sexual harasser. I could go on and on providing examples. I really don't know that we could blame the kids. We have to blame a permissive society that rewards the bad guys and craps on the good guys. This is just another example.

[otohara]

54. Reality TV Also Adds

To this weirdness in American society.
Behavingly badly pays!

[Skidmore]

4. It is disgusting that these students care more about football than

the safety of young children.

[Odin2005]

53. High Schools protect bullies because they are on the football team.

:grr:

[Ineeda]

7. College sports are akin to war.

Win at any cost and screw the collateral damage. They'd be celebrating if this happened at their arch-rival school. :puke:

[adigal]

8. What a bunch of assholes...they won't riot against banks or war

things that are righteous to be angry about. They made college students look like assholes. Disgraceful. Paterno needed to go, he had a moral responsibility to call the police and have Sandusky arrested, but he was old fashioned and did it his way.

These kids really care more about a football coach than a kid who was anally raped. Nice.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. I'm not surprised. Seems like a textbook case of social psychology.

First, you have a mob with individuals "following the herd". A mob takes an identity and mission of its own.

Second, the passions of the mob are only accelerated by the mob itself. It starts with outrage and just builds and builds.

Third, the mob is a cohensive whole. Everyone shares the same emotions. There is a misplaced feeling of humiliation by being denied what they think belongs to them. In this case, school pride that is dependent upon a football team that wins which in turn is dependent (in their minds) on having a particular coach (Joe Paterno) leading the team. Take that away and the mob feels like they've been neutered, castrated. They're nothing. And it reacts.

[Eddie Haskell]

16. Yes, I've seen the same herd mentality in here.

Especially when it's an issue that evokes strong emotions.

[Rebubula]

23. What issues...

...ones liking raping 10 year olds and then an entire University covering the whole thing up and ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN????


Keep defending, sir.

[Tsiyu]

27. Oh, we shouldn't have any emotion about

someone witnessing a 10-year-old getting raped? And not stopping the rape? And being too much of a coward to report it til the next day? And there should be no outrage over years and years of coverup by others who KNEW, while other children were being sexually abused?

The outrage is not a "herd mentality" at work. The outrage is how DECENT people react to this most heinous of crimes against children.

Anyone who excuses Paterno, in fact - anyone who ISN'T outraged - is a really creepy, suspicious character, in my opinion.

[Eddie Haskell]

40. I was referring to the DSK case.

But thanks for the ID.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. If the textbook was written about the time Paterno started coaching, maybe

:-)

The Gustav LeBon version of crowd psychology that you're explaining here certainly had a great deal of currency in the first half of the 20th century, mainly through the influence of Robert Park at the University of Chicago.

Actual empirical research on crowds through the 1960's and forward, however, have shown much of LeBon's claim to be mostly nonsense.

:hi:

[no_hypocrisy]

29. Not to be arbitrarily contentious, but do you see some elements of

the mob mentality in this particular situation? I do. LeBon may not be primarily utilized these days, but I see some validity in his theory.

:hi:

[trumad]

12. Andy Staples from Sports Illustrated....

We'll pause here for a brief public service announcement: Kids, don't drink and approach people with microphones. YouTube is forever. Many of those students will have children of their own in a few years, and then they'll finally understand why so many felt so disgusted by the way those in power at Penn State handled this nightmare. They'll realize they embarrassed themselves, their families and their university. They'll feel awfully stupid about the way they acted Wednesday, so don't be too hard on them. The hangover will come. Someday, they'll realize Joe Paterno wasn't the victim in this case. A bunch of innocent kids were.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/11/10/joe.paterno.fired.penn.state/index.html#ixzz1dItXLU4y

[Dorian Gray]

20. Yes yes yes

Thanks for that link, trumad.

[Blue_Tires]

47. brilliantly put...

[madrchsod]

14. i hope the badgers roll over penn state....

[MadBadger]

35. As Do I, but why is that your reaction?

Besides Mcqueary (at least for now), what's left of that football team that should cause strong feelings?

[Dorian Gray]

18. Those students are idiots

it's the right decision. The school needs to move on. Paterno "dropped the ball." He should have focused on the victims rather than the school. He didn't. I think he will accept his punishment, but the students who are doing this look like assholes. Focus now needs to be put on the victims rather than on JoPa and his role in the scandal.

[City Lights]

24. Disturbing. eom

[ejbr]

25. Now one must question,

does Penn breed A$$holes?

[MadBadger]

37. You do realize that this same situation would occur on the campus of any University

If the siutations were the same.

[ejbr]

41. Yes, I do...and I would ask the same question. n/t

[GoneOffShore]

48. Penn State does, indeed, appear to breed a-holes

Anecdotally, I have met and worked with maybe two dozen Penn State grads. About 25% of them were conscientious, hardworking and smart. The other 75% were concerned with football, drinking, football, partying, football and drinking - both men and women.

YMMV

[Downtown Hound]

59. LOL, not the university I went to

Humboldt State cares about things that really matter. Football was rather low on the list of priorities.

[randr]

26. Perfect example of how football has lowered

the academic standards. I know ethics are no longer taught but I always assumed there was still some morality left.

[KharmaTrain]

28. Just Win Baby...

That's all that matters in the corrupt world of collegiate athletics. Not that I needed a reason to think College football is a ponzi scheme, here's yet another example of how X and Os mean more than common sense, decency and even breaking the law.

I always find it amusing to hear some college rooter then ask if they ever attended the school and hear the crickets. It's all about the winning...the glory of being a Top 25 team and the millions of dollars that can and do rain down on the school through not only alumni donations but the corporate money...including JoePa's shoe contract to if its Coke or Pepsi that's the "official" drink.

This isn't just targeted at Penn State. I am still outraged at how Notre Dame shoveled under the carpet an investigation into an incident last year that led to the death of a student who was sent up in a crane in high winds to film a practice and lost his life when the crane fell. No one ever was held responsible in that sorrid incident and the family given a quick pay off.

Just win baby...

[deacon]

31. This takes it from a disgraced leadership to a completely disgraced school. n/t

[CanonRay]

32. So I've now lost pretty much all respect for Penn State

[durablend]

34. "Future Republicans of America"

Just sayin....

[MadBadger]

36. Bullshit

[Safetykitten]

38. They riot over this. Student loans, economy...fucking morons riot over this.

[malthaussen]

42. Joe Paterno is not just famous, he is beloved.

And that is why the students are so angry. I am going to take the other side in this debate, in what is probably a vain hope to promote understanding, not in an effort to convince anyone that they are wrong. Mr Paterno is an organization man, who acted in this instance pretty much as an organization man would act. Moral cowardice? Unquestionably. But I doubt many organization men in his position would have done anything more. Mr McQueary, who witnessed the incident and reported it to Mr Paterno, also did not "follow through" and is therefore as culpable as anyone who chose to report the event and hope that the higher ups would do something about it. Should every one who allowed institutional concern to override their concern for Mr Sandusky's villainous conduct be pilloried and made to resign? Or is Mr Paterno being used as a convenient scapegoat to pay for the culpability of all the rest? Oddly enough, the two individuals who lied to the Grand Jury have not been fired. Does this mean that the moral failure to follow through is somehow more to be despised than lying in a court of law? Or that one may be as cowardly or mendacious as one pleases, so long as one is not in a position of high visibility?

Citizens of Pennsylvania and students of the university have always considered Penn State to be a special place, one where treasured values and personal integrity have withstood the corruptions that have attended other institutions. That is why the place is called "Happy Valley" and not "Death Valley" or some other such militant name. That is why such pride has always been taken in the minimalist uniforms. Mr Paterno has always been symbolic of this attitude, and the affection for him goes far beyond mere celebrity. He has contributed much to the university and the community beyond a few football wins. I think the students were rioting very much more in sorrow than anger, although there is probably plenty of anger. However out-to-lunch and insular the vision the students and the citizens of the state have of the university, they are being forced to confront a reality that is shocking and humiliating, something they would never have believed "could happen here." Yeah, that totally loses sight of the victims and the crime, but I suggest that most people, if they discovered their brother had committed a murder, would be more concerned about their brother than the victim.

For many people -- myself and my 86 year-old mother, for example, who were just discussing this -- the action of the trustees in this case speaks more of a frantic desire to do damage control and find a scapegoat than to do justice in the case. Mr Paterno had already accepted that he would have to resign at the end of the year. I wonder what purpose, exactly, is served in firing him in this cavalier fashion after 61 years of service to the university and community?

-- Mal

[madmom]

45. ....

" Should every one who allowed institutional concern to override their concern for Mr Sandusky's villainous conduct be pilloried and made to resign? " YES that's the very LEAST that should happen!

[seabeyond]

46. we hear all kinds of reason paterno allowed a man who fucked kids to continue be around

kids so he could continue to fuck them. with NO watchful eye or boundaries or rule. a free for all playground for this man amongst kids.

how can allowing children to be fucked ever hit the bottom over an illusion of love for a man you do nto even know.

[Arugula Latte]

49. Disgusting.

They are giving the whole school a bad name, instead of just the child rapist and his protectors.

[emilyg]

51. Someday they'll have

children of their own.

[Odin2005]

52. This is why I have come to hate most sports.

Many high school jocks, for example, never get punished for bullying because they are too important for the football team.

[Downtown Hound]

58. Bunch of spoiled little self-indulgent brats.

This is one case where I actually wouldn't mind seeing the rubber bullets fly.

[Cognitive_Resonance]

60. They're part of the problem. Complete lack of perspective. NCAA needs to come down hard. nt