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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 08:42 AM
Original message
In Defense of Joe Paterno
Edited on Thu Nov-10-11 09:01 AM by alcibiades_mystery
OK, now that I got your attention, I will start by saying that I don't really believe what's written below, and I agree with the decision of the Penn State Board of Trustees to remove Paterno effective immediately. What is provided below is the set of defenses that I'm hearing from Paterno supporters, and it is posted here largely in an attempt to answer the question so many people were asking last night: why are the students seemingly protesting in favor of Paterno. My reading of the various PSU boards and discussions suggests that the reasons below are the primary way that Paterno supporters are constructing their belief system.

I should also add the following: I lived in State College for ten years during the period in question. I taught over 500 students at Penn State (University Park) in small classes (capped in the 20's). I think I understand the institution, the students, and the town outside the institution (which is coming in for very little criticism, and less than it deserves given the Second Mile connection) fairly well.

The Defense

Reason A: The McQueary Theory - This is the key premise on which all the other reasons hinge, and goes to the heart of Paterno's knowledge. Paterno's supporters don't believe that McQueary provided Paterno with the detailed description of what he saw that was presented in the Presentment. Rather, they believe McQueary gave Paterno a much more sanitized and ambiguous version of events. They have some good reason to believe this: clearly, McQueary was a credible witness to the Grand Jury: they indicted Curley and Schultz for perjury on the basis of McQueary's claims. Yet they did not indict Paterno for perjury. There must, then, have been some concordance between Paterno and McQueary's claims about their conversation. Paterno's camp has subsequently stated publicly that McQueary's description was not at all what appeared in the Presentment, and this public claim - it is thought - would not be made if it was in direct contradiction to the Grand Jury testimony. So, to put the most pro-Joe Pa spin on things, his supporters believe that he was given an ambiguous sense of McQueary having seen something odd, and reported even that. (It should also be noted that McQueary's camp has characterized his description of events to Paterno as detailed and explicit).

Reason B.1: Paterno DID Tell the Police - I've seen an odd claim emerging from Paterno's supporters, and it goes like this: Paterno did, in fact, both follow up and tell the police. Here's how that claim works. Schultz was, at the time, the head of the University police. Paterno first reported what he's heard to Tim Curley, the Athletic Director. But then later ( a week later) he had another meeting, with both Curley and Schultz in attendance. As this argument goes, Paterno's insistence on notification of Schultz with a second meeting was an attempt to report directly to the police. He was essentially telling the police chief to pursue the charges.

Reason B.2: But Where's the Follow-Up? - It is on this point that the argument would seem to fail, unless you buy Reason A in its entirety. Put another way, if you think McQueary told Paterno that he'd seen Sandusky raping a 10 year old, then clearly the lack of seeming follow-up in the form of a police investigation would demand that Paterno revisit the issue. If, on the other hand, you think McQueary said something like "I saw Sandusky in a really weird scene with this kid, and it just made me really uncomfortable, and we should report it," then the lack of follow-up would not seem all that surprising, if Paterno did tell police, and they presumably investigated, and found nothing "weird." To believe this, you also have to believe Reasons C and D, below.

Reason C: The Crazy Protocols - Paterno supporters insist that he discharged his duty not only legally, and not only according to the mandatory and Byzantine protocols that employees are drilled on at PSU and other large institutions, but in excess of the protocols. In essence, they claim he was hamstrung by the protocols, but did everything in his power within them to alert authorities. This is the function of the second meeting with Curley and Schultz after the single protocol alert (to Curley) seemingly went nowhere. The second meeting holds up the claim that Paterno did not merely do the "bare minimum" under institutional protocols, which would be to alert Curley. The bare minimum does not require the second meeting with Schultz (the "chief of the University police, see Reason B.1). I actually find this to be a plausible argument, and people claiming that Paterno did the bare minimum have to explain that second meeting, which was not a requirement once the reporting was made to Curley. It was either an active part of a cover-up (the Grand Jury didn't seem to think so), or what Paterno supporters claim, but it was not the bare minimum.

Reason D: No, Actually, Joe Didn't Know - Much of the argument that says Paterno didn't do enough in 2002 is based on the idea that he must have known about the previous investigation, and all those other victims. Paterno supporters say, essentially, where's the evidence for that? Where's the evidence he knew anything about the 1998 investigation? Not the "Oh, he must have known!" evidence, but real actual evidence that Paterno himself was informed of it. What we know about the 1998 investigation is this: Ot was reported to the University police by the victim's mother. The University police investigated it and handed it to Gricar, the DA. He didn't pursue charges. Nowhere in that narrative, the supporters assert, do we see Joe Paterno being notified. Needless to say, this part of their defense stretches credulity to the breaking point: was the head football coach not notified that the University police and the DA were investigating his much vaunted assistant for sexually abusing children in his own facilities? Come on! That said, there is no detailed explanation of what that investigation entailed, apart from the sting with the mother, and there's no positive evidence that Paterno was notified, according to supporters. If you combine Reason D with Reason A, and add Reasons B.1, B.2, and C, you can see how the portrait of Paterno as flagrantly ignoring known abuse starts to fade.

The Fallbacks

What you have above is the case in chief. It basically argues that Paterno did not at any time know the extent of the abuse that we see in the Presentment, and, indeed, did not even know if the one ambiguous report of something odd going on was accurate, but nevertheless turned it over to the University police through the second meeting with Schultz. Because he did not know of previous reports, and did not know what exactly McQueary might have seen, he assumed the investigation had found nothing untoward. Is this a plausible argument? No. I would call it possible but not plausible, which is to say, you can construct this account from the known evidence without gaps, but it does stretch credulity. The arguments below are those being made by supporters in an attempt to smooth that out.

Reason E: Joe's Old School - On its surface, this argument would seem facile at best. It basically goes like this: Paterno may have had inklings of Sandusky's proclivities, but he didn't have the world view or knowledge to understand them. Infuriating, surely, but not without some substance. In the claim you have a plausible set of ideas: Paterno basically had a mindset of the 1950's, before what we know now about abuse (on the abuser side) and trauma (on the victim's side) really inundated the culture. The "old school" response to any number of "sexual indiscretions" is simple: hey, knock it off, pal. Anything from cheating on your wife to having a thing for little boys is solved this way. There is also the sense that the more horrible versions of what happened to those children simply cannot happen, so "knock it off" is always addressed toward acts like fondling rather than actual rape-intercourse (a particularly cringe-worthy distinction, I know, but it informs the next point). On the victim's side, the notion that sexual abuse produces a lifelong trauma is also unthinkable. Think of the way PTSD was once handled as "shellshock" and you get the idea: the premise is that there is no lasting trauma that you can't "overcome" by simply bucking up. This argument surely doesn't save Paterno, but it would explain his actions in combination with the reasons above.

Reason F: Media Frenzy and Reading Backwards - The final line of defense is really media critique in the standard mode. The argument goes like this: the real culprits here are Sandusky, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier. The reason that people don't see Paterno's side as laid out in the case in chief is because Paterno is the big deer for the media to bag, whereas nobody ever heard of these other guys. Celebrity culture, QED. So, the big media zone in on Paterno, and completely twist the evidence to make it sound that he knew more than he did. Rather than McQueary telling an ambiguous story, he tells an explicit one, even though there is ambiguity in the Presentment on this very point. But that's media and reading backwards. Instead of an exceedingly discrete investigation of the 1998 incident, Paterno was notified and made Sandusky retire. That's media and reading backwards. This argument, in essence, attempts to save the plausibility of the case in chief not by supporting it, but by saying everything you think you know about this situation and the institution is actually a false construct of the media narrative, and the media narrative is more concerned with latching on to somebody famous than the truth.

*****************************************

As I stated above, I don't believe this case. I believe everybody knew what Sandusky was up to, in broad terms at least (there is something to the "old school" argument, I think), and that includes people not yet implicated, especially within the State College non-academi community and especially at the Second Mile (I am speculating here, but I even find it more plausible that Paterno had no inkling than that the whole of State College establishment had no inkling). I have presented the larger reason that people could actually believe this stuff, here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2275877.

What I think will happen: The reasons will start to crumble one by one as more information comes out. The problem is that they are internally consistent with the evidence we have now.

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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is an excellent summation of everything I've heard locally in defense of Joe Pa.
Still think the guy screwed up royally, and deserves to be fired, and thank god the trustees at PSU realized this. Spanier had to go, too.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you for taking the time to detail this. What it boils down to is this -
people think that big-time football coaches are moral authorities. People revere big-time football coaches. Hell, people revere their seven year old kids' Pop Warner Football coaches. Our society has a very strong tendency to idolize football coaches and other authority figures.

It might be a clue as to why the United States is in such bad shape right now. Maybe this happened for a reason. Maybe it is a wakeup call to many of us to stop believing in authority figures "just because."
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get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Absolutely!
In a way this is symbolic of our culture of taking "authority" figures at their word all the time, or not wanting to to be the person to rock the boat with them.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. The Cult of the Coach. It's in college roundball, too: "Coach K"; Bobby Knight; John Wooden.
Incredibly, Wooden was SI's "Sportsman of the Year" in 1972---you know, the year of the Olympics, Mark Spitz, etc.?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. The notion that people will believe anything
Paterno says "just because," or even the notion that Paterno is an "aithority figure" in State College or at Penn State just doesn't really jibe with my experience. There is certainly a weird reverence that surrounds him, but it doesn't seem to work that way.

Two cents. Sorry.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Really good post...
Thanks for the insight. :thumbsup:

Sid
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. In reference to the "Protocol" argument, I don't care...
If he knew about a child being raped, to hell with protocol. Go to the police. What was the WORST THING that could have happened? They clearly would not have fired him. Especially given the nature of the offense he was reporting. I still believe this was just a matter of a school protecting its cash cow.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. The supporters present the reasons above in combination
So, to your point, they would say

1) he did NOT know about a child being raped (see Reason A and D, and fallback E)
2) he did IN FACT go to the police anyway (see Reason B.1 and C)
3) he actually went to the police above and beyond the reporting protocol (see Reason C)

That's the argument that they're making. They are not saying that he should only have followed protocol.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. K. Great summation, btw. Thanks.
:hi:
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. There is a reason the Def Coor of the year retired at 55
And was not immediately hired as a head coach anywhere.

ALOT of people knew this guy was shit. They looked the other way to protect 'the program".

Penn state and each and every person with knowledge of this should be ashamed.

The students behavior last night was really ugly, I would hope my sons would never defend someone like that.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good thread for summing it up -
I can understand those arguments. The university, however, will be sued by these families (if they haven't been already) and the board of trustees is going to do everything they can to protect the institution. That's their job and duty.
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Eddie Haskell Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. A friend of mine played for Paterno in the 70's.
Jim died of cancer some years back. Joe drove 3 hours to attend the funeral and say a few words. I'll never forget that.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Part of the reason why the defenses above hold sway for some people
is lodged there. What they're hearing just doesn't scan with what they already know about the man. Since the defenses are internally consistent, and consistent with prior knowledge, they are going to hold more weight.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Nobody is saying Paterno wasn't a great coach. But he failed LIVE BOYS, LITTLE boys.
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PoiBoy Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you...
..for the excellent, clarifying post...













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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
12. Thank you - you've helped me understand WTF is going on in supporters heads
With all the effed up thinking in this world today, it's getting harder and harder to figure out where people are coming from.

Like you, I don't agree with them. My experience is that, like even the smallest high school, universities have their own society and the rumor mill among staff is brutal. That all by itself is reason enough to poo-poo most of rumors that come your way. But I'm guessing there are few people of any rank in the institution (and those who support it like the campus police) who is surprised by what has come out.

Worse, it all adds to the belief that universities have become more about sports (and the money they can raise off of them) than about educating young adults. Covering up this kind of behavior, failing to investigate it thoroughly, is the kind of protection all too common among universities, but rare in other departments.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. As someone who grew up on the edge of Happy Valley, PA - it's a fricking cult I tells ya
My mother's biggest disappointment was that none of her kids went to Penn State. Mind you, we had the grades but we went to private liberal arts schools instead.

But I knew families that had shrines to anything related to PSU Football including Joe Paterno. There was this mindset that Paterno was a diety.

But it was more than that, Paterno ran a clean program to boot. Football players were expected to gain an education and graduate from college. Not once was PSU ever overly scrutinized for illegal recruting tactics or use of steroids. Paterno created a culture that raised the dignity and respect of PSU amongst NCAA Division I teams that was a standard all other schools wanted to achieve. The pride felt by those who supported Penn State including those from the Penn State Region of 'Happy Valley' (Central Pennsylvania) was one of pride that we had such a clean, cut, respectable team that was better than those other teams.

That's what is so crushing about all of this. Penn State was suppose to be the creme de la creme of Collegiate Football. This was more crushing than anything imaginable.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. I can imagine the crush
Supporters of Penn State have my sympathy for the very reasons you mention. It's hard to stomach even from a distance. I can't imagine the wrench to the gut it must be close up.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. It certainly eases the way to rationalization
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get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you for the great explanation
I have wondered about the "old school" argument myself. There were literally things that were unthinkable to people of Paterno's generation.

A huge question I have had since this story broke is that how were there no rumors in College Station itself? I live in what is very much a college town and there isn't much that happens at the university, especially in it's major athletics programs, that doesn't spread very quickly around here. For at least 15 years Sandusky was abusing children, and he was investigated in 1998, so how does that not spread around town at about twice the speed of sound? My alma mater had a basketball coach with a drinking problem a few years ago and the whole town knew about it within his first 6 months on the job, getting drunk in bars is more public than raping kids, but certainly less horrific.
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malthaussen Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I think the answer to your question lies in your last sentence...
A guy getting drunk and busting up a bar or two is almost "acceptable" behavior, especially if the guy is a jock. In any event, there are enough people who abuse alcohol that public drunkenness is not seen as a particularly big deal. Child molestation, however, is one of the most socially-unacceptable crimes available, so both the horror of the act and the frantic panic to cover it up are multiplied greatly. Some things are so hideous, people choose to close their eyes. This is why I believe the WWII Germans who claim they didn't know about the death camps -- the simple fact is, they chose not to believe.

-- Mal
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. College Station is Texas A&M
Penn State's in State College, PA. :-)

I have no doubt that there were many rumors flying around State College, and that many people knew about this, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. The Second mile golf tournaments hosted everybody who was anybody in State College - not university people, but the wealthy of the town.

There's more coming, I am sure.
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get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Sorry, I should know that
Not enough coffee. Yes, I am quite sure more will be revealed. There will be a lot to learn about our culture from this situation.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. The "STFU" Response: THE BOY WAS LEFT IN THE CLUTCHES OF A SEXUAL PERVERT THAT NIGHT. AND THE NEXT.
AND THE NEXT, UNTO NOBODY KNOWS, BECAUSE NOBODY CHECKED ON HIM. A RAPED CHILD.

A RAPED CHILD.

SO NOT ONLY DID NO PENN STATE "MAN" CALL THE ACTUAL POLICE;

NO MCQUEARY, NO PATERNO, NO CURLEY, NO SPANIER EVEN WENT TO SANDUSKY'S HOME TO CONFRONT HIM AND ASK HIM, WHERE IS THAT BOY?

EVEN NOW-----EVEN NOW-----NO-ONE ASKS THAT QUESTION: WHERE IS "THE BOY IN THE SHOWER"?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. THANK YOU. nt
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Add to that this fact: In 2005 another boy was molested by Sandusky
In a nutshell that's a mega lawsuit because that molestation could have been prevented had the police been properly contacted back in 2002. And probably the main reason why Paterno had to be fire, so the University could protect itself from liability.
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SomethingFishy Donating Member (552 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. According to the Grand Jury there are 8 victims so far...
They were serving kids up to this guy.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. But that's precisely what's in dispute
I understand your outrage here, and I share it.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Yeah, I get carried away when my beloved school is bumming me out here.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Me too
And mine, too.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. One more thing about McQueary.....
Edited on Thu Nov-10-11 10:24 AM by Avalux
he wants to talk and tell the public exactly what he told Joe at the time, but is bound by law to remain silent. He will not be able to do so until after the trial. He will remain the WR coach for the time being.

There are a lot of unknowns to this story. Logically, the Board of Trustees did what they had to do to save the school's reputation (which is what every decision is about) - as what you posted states - fire the icon. The media wanted that red meat.

Emotionally - my heart is breaking for the alleged victims and my school....lots of mixed feelings. :(
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. McQ is still lying. A GJ witness may himself reveal his own testimony.
Grand jury proceedings have been held in secret since the 1600s. The secrecy rule, adopted from England, has become an integral — some say essential — part of the American criminal justice system. There is no First Amendment right of public access to grand jury proceedings. Participants, except witnesses, are forbidden from disclosing matters related to the grand jury, even after the grand jury’s activities have concluded.

http://www.rcfp.org/secretjustice/grandjuries/pg1.html
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I suspect he's being advised to shut his mouth by civil attorneys
rather than the state prosecutor.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. Same here. Same here. I'll be cheering on the PLAYERS vs. Nebraska.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. Fuck Paterno...
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
28. I think that's a good summary of the arguments I've seen in defense of Paterno
I've read some Penn State message boards, and I think you've offered a good breakdown of the lines of thought that have developed in defense of Paterno.

I'd offer a few further corrolaries/intensifications.

On "Reason A: The McQueary Theory": As events have quickly developed over the last few days, many of the people relying (in whole or in part) on Reason A have intensified their attacks on McQueary. Don't get me wrong, of course--McQueary has plenty to answer for. But the Paterno defenders initially saw Curley and Schultz as the culpable parties. As the scrutiny on Paterno increased, they shifted much of their venom to Spanier, and then (as it became clear Joe was going to go down) shifted more venom to McQueary.

On Reason C (and Reason B): Another line of argument I've seen is that Paterno simply couldn't go to the police--either because he actually could have gotten in trouble for doing so (an extension of the Reason C: The Crazy Protocols argument) or because you simply can't go to the police without evidence. They won't do anything about it, or they'll laugh at you, or whatever. As if the police wouldn't give Joe Paterno's report any more credibility than Joe Schmo.

Another fallback (Reason G?) that I've seen is the simple faith that JoePa has always been an upstanding, honest, moral guy, whatever he did must have been upstanding, honest, and moral. So if even all the other reasons fail, we must just not have enough information to understand exactly why Joe acted the way he did.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I think those are good extensions
I avoided your extension to Reason A largely because it's not a grounding reason. The attacks on McQueary have certainly intensified, but the way the reason works is by reducing the amount of information Paterno had. I think the additional attack on McQueary serves this purpose in two particular ways:

1) It makes McQueary look like a coward for not intervening on the spot, and thereby reduces his credibility
2) It reduces the plausibility of McQueary's story (why wouldn't he intervene?)

But both of those could be Reason A.2: Maybe McQueary is making the whole thing up.

The problem there is that it doesn't seem like many people are making that argument, and it's not internally consistent with the other reasons anyway. I'm trying to figure out the multiple planks of the belief system as a system.

But your points are certainly well taken!
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. yeah, good point
I guess that one is not properly an extension as much as an observation about how the presentation of that reason has evolved, especially in relation to Paterno's weakening position. And I think you're exactly right about the purposes that evolution serves.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. Oh, he ain't making it up!! This GJ is 3 yrs in the making! And why make himself look like the
Coward of the Ages?!

P.S. JS was de facto fired from PSU in '99 because of "improprieties" in '98. Joe and Co. KNEW THIS IN 2002!!!!!!
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I understand that Sandusky's 99 retirement
is being routinely interpreted that way, and there's a good case to be made for it (55 years old, prime head coaching age, prominent and successful, why retire, etc.). But I've seen no actual evidence of that at all.
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melissaf Donating Member (307 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I think in the GJ testimony
I read that one of the victims said that Sandusky was upset in 98/99 because he'd talked to Joe who said he (Joe) would NOT be retiring, thus Sandusky would never be Penn State's head coach. So he may have retired because of Joe's refusal to leave, or it may have been a combo of Joe's stubbornness and the 1998 investigation. Or maybe it was just the 1998 investigation. Who knows at this point?

Anyway, you can also look at this story as Penn State dodging a very small bullet. Yes, this story in fact could have been WORSE than it is now if Sandusky had been promoted to head coach AND continued with his appalling criminal behavior.
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