Hunter S. Thompson was a huge football fan.

[WilliamPitt]

So am I.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Seems like enjoying football is being painted as anti-liberal around here of late.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Child abuse can happen anywhere, my dear Will...

The fact that this time it happened in a football venue does not mean we should condemn the sport.

My 2 cents...

Recommended.

[Warpy]

5. The only thing I condemn is the cultlike following

who enabled this man to keep on raping children for as long as he did.

I admit I don't get football. I won't watch it if there's paint drying somewhere in town. I don't get churches, C&W music or gambling, either. There are a lot of things out there I don't get. Personal boundaries prevent me from telling other people they shouldn't get them, either.

However, when people who do get these things and support them to the point of fanaticism use them as excuses to shield some man from the consequences of raping children, they lose any tolerance I've managed to summon up for them.

That means the Penn State athletic department, the school administration, the cop who decided to ignore the whole thing, and the punks who rioted over seeing a coach get canned. I regard them exactly the same way as I regard the Vatican.

And that's bad.

[Phentex]

11. That's how I see it as well...

well said!

:thumbsup:

[RagAss]

14. Disagree...it wasn't "cultlike" ... it fits all the criteria of an actual Cult.

[GoCubsGo]

21. That is my big issue with it, too.

I haven't seen any posts that paint football as "anti-liberal". I have, however, seen plenty of anti-liberal behavior coming from its fans. As I posted in another thread, I was recently called "unAmerican" by an acquaintance because I don't like the game. WTF? I don't understand the attraction to the game, either. And, I certainly don't get the cult-like behavior, especially when it comes college football. And, I really don't understand why some of its fans feel the need to bash those of us who have no use for the game. And, don't get me started on how I have to pay an extra buck for a copy of the Sunday "The State" newspaper, during the football season. They jack up the price for the special SC Gamecocks section every friggin' week. Why the hell can't they just sell it separately?

[TheWraith]

2. It's just a form of elitism, a way of playing the "more liberal than thou" game.

Football is enjoyed by the masses, and associated with certain stereotypes of "manliness" or less than dainty conduct. Therefore, clearly it's evil, must be sneered at, and anyone who likes it treated as mentally or morally inferior.

Frankly I don't give two shits for football, and far less than that for college football, but I do get tired of the snobbery and broad-brushing, no matter where it's directed.

[FSogol]

3. Exactly correct. n/t

[pipi_k]

23. And then there's the...

"more intellectual than thou" attitude that groups everyone who likes things like reality TV or American Idol, etc., into the intellectual Neanderthal category.

As if people can't be interested in serious issues AND a bit of "mindless" entertainment.

The Royal wedding in the UK was just one example. Lots of people turned their noses up and acted like they were just too intelligent to care, while those of us who enjoyed it were, in their opinions, minnows biting mindlessly at the pretty shiny objects.

[Lucky Luciano]

67. yep! nt

[Blue_Tires]

4. I NEED football...

The Super Bowl is like a winter alarm clock reminding me pitchers and catchers report soon:think:

[shanti]

76. ewwwww

football AND baseball? no can do. what about basketball?

[ErikJ]

6. Sports breeds Apathy -more bread and circuses

Politics is my sport.
The sheer number of stats and facts and figures in politics to remember leaves NO room for sports. Politics is INFINITELY more interesting. And it has REAL lasting effect on MY life.
Superbowl is here and gone in one day. Who won last year? Who knows or cares? Pffft.

I'm with Thom Hartmann-too many people thaT ARE JUST INTERESTED IN SPORTS AND MUSIC AND NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO POLITICS IS WHY WE HAVE BEEN ASLEEP FOR 30 YEARS.

Ironically though, the 3 leading MSNBC hosts are big sports fans. Schultz, Rachel and Keith (now Current TV). But none can compare to the political knowledge of Hartmann.

[zerox]

17. I can't decide whether this is a serious post or not...

Are sports pretty much just light entertainment? Yeah, probably. But most people are able to hold many interests that are both different and competing.

I mean, goddamn, I guess nobody should really watch movies or listen to music or go to art galleries or read fiction, cause it's all just a distraction anyway. What we should be doing is watching looped footage of John Boehner and Mitt Romney and MSNBC all day, because that's what really keeps us awake.

Sport doesn't breed apathy. Apathetic people just happen to like watching balls go back and forth.

[bigmonkey]

50. Light entertainment that indirectly, but crucially, interfered with the pedophilia investigation.

For me, that's the thing. So much in the way of resources, so much money in this "light entertainment" that to avoid interference with it is worth the health of young adults (injured in the game) and children (injured by "too big for the law" characters in the game). That's how I see it.

For me, it's not the game per se, it's the demonstrable distortions of other institutions to support the smooth functioning of the business around that game.

[zerox]

65. Money tends to breed bad endings.

You can switch football with any other profitable enterprise and you'd have a substantial chance of reaching the same result.

Now, should colleges be running highly profitable and possibly exploitative enterprises? That's a good question. I personally think college sports, especially in the upper echelons, have gotten substantially out of control. This case has illustrated that. But as you said, it is not the fault of the game itself--it's the fault of the money machine that college administrators have joyfully allowed the game to become.

[bigmonkey]

73. Yes, but ...

One reason this kind of thing perpetuates itself is that people conflate the criticism of the business setup with the game itself. It accomplishes a kind of immune system for the setup when a fan is unwilling to listen to criticism that seems directed at the game itself. In that sense, all the whining that the game is not to blame is helping to prevent the situation from being addressed. A whole lot of people don't see that, they just say the equivalent of "Hey, I deserve my lacrosse!" and close their eyes.

[Rebubula]

20. I am wise enough...

...to process all of these AND MANY MORE!

I am glad that you find politics interesting. Some people do not.

Some people are Vegetarians and think meat eaters are killer - there are vegans who have the same opinion of both.

Life should not be monochromatic. I can love watching football, college hoops or tennis AND STILL know the name of every Senator in the US Congress and recite the list of English Kings\Queens since 1066.

One passion does not preclude another.

Arrogance is not a pretty trait.

[pipi_k]

27. Fortunately for most of us...

we possess more than just a handful of brain cells.

That means we can be interested in a whole lot of things at one time. Yes...shocking, but true!


And I would say that politics itself is a whole lot of Three Ring Circus as well.

[a la izquierda]

29. Oh please...

I have a PhD in history. I like college football. I don't like people who disparage others with some sort of moral superiority. Do you have any clue how much history I have to remember? Here's a hint- it's multiple cultures and nations over a couple thousand years.
I think my brain has some room for a little sport.

Good grief. :eyes:

[Journeyman]

57. You remind me of this Larson comic. . .

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

61. "Politics" is killing this country

People obsessed with subverting what is right is killing this country.

I can't watch politics 24/7. It is depressing. It would make me suicidal. I need a distraction once in awhile.

[Telly Savalas]

66. Sports are typically much more intellectually engaging than American politics

An option play in college football is considerably more nuanced than any statement that you'll hear uttered in a GOP debate.

The policy dialogue in this country is so dominated by stupid people that it's become painful to follow closely. It's hard to work up enthusiasm towards the little theater of lunatic Republicans and the largely milquetoast Democrats who serve as our only barrier of protection from the Right's insanity.

Yeah, it's good to have some awareness of politics because it does impact our lives, but one doesn't need to spend hours a day immersed in it to get a sense of which of our limited courses of action will cause the least amount of damage. One should be active and one should vote, but the large body of political knowledge doesn't translate into actionable items. It's of limited use to slavishly keep up with what the latest right wing talking points are -- you can't refute them because they live outside the universe of facts, reason, and logic. And there's not a lot you can do with esoteric knowledge like what the polling numbers are in the race for the Democratic primary of Nevada's 3rd district if you don't live there.

MSNBC does our country more harm than ESPN, because the latter is openly a trivial diversion whereas the former is a trivial diversion that poses as a source of news and analysis.

[Dreamer Tatum]

69. "Sports, politics, and religion are the three passions of the badly educated" - William Gass

And he was writing about people like you.

[garybeck]

7. he was also into guns and fireworks.

I used to live a few miles from him in Colorado.

Personally I think people should enjoy their football if they like it, but for me I don't get a lot of joy watching people smash into each other. I prefer baseball.

[donco]

8. Lotta herd

mentality around here lately.

[leveymg]

9. He also loved his guns and drugs. All sorts.

This is Duke, your Captain speaking. On behalf of LSD Airlines, I'd like to welcome you on board. Shortly, our stewardesses will be coming around to take your drug and drink orders. I personally recommend the Mescaline and Absynth cocktail, which I just enjoyed my second. Please sit back and feel free to discharge your handguns and bladders, but only in the lavatories provided for your comfort and safety. We welcome you to the Friendly Skies of LSD. Fly high.

[Nostradammit]

10. I'm not sure it's the actual sport that's getting painted.

I think it's the culture that has grown up around it.
I grew up in a family of football fanatics and cried
like a baby when my team finally won a Super Bowl but
at some point something just snapped and I saw that
there might be something just a little wrong with our
society's infatuation with the thing.

After years of watching it from the outside I have
concluded that our "win at all costs" mentality about
it is keeping us from evolving. It is good that a
divisional playoff game between Cleveland and Pittsburgh
keeps its citizens from picking up weapons and invading
each other and there are certainly many lessons about
cooperation and overcoming adversity to be gained by the
individual players, but the deification of those players
and their coaches by the general public is unhealthy.

It's hard to see from the inside, I know.

[Enrique]

12. Hunter S. Thompson is hardly a role model for liberals

talented writer, yes.

This is not to comment on the game of football.

[Chan790]

30. HST is a role model for me and an entire generation of writers.

Probably Will as well, though I don't presume to speak for him.

Realize that there are a lot of investigative journalists, war-correspondents, political journalists, novelists, essayists, writers and other pen-jockeys of the not comfortable behind a desk or uninvolved in the story variety who were strongly influenced by Thompson or became writers because of him and the Gonzo movement he spearheaded. Most of them are unabashed liberals. You should pay more respect.

If it weren't for Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 and The Kentucky Derby is Decadent and Depraved, I'd be a anesthesiologist today and there would be one less freelance-journalist covering Occupy DC.

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. Sport is something that transcends politics.

But it's also something you get or you don't. If you don't, then you wonder what all the fuss is about, why anyone cares when there are obviously more important things to be worrying about. If you do get it then you know what it is to admire grace and athleticism and determination and teamwork, what it is to have your heart in your throat as the clock ticks down, your team down a goal, a play in the end zone...the almost sexual tension, the crushing disappointment or orgasmic joy, depending on how the play goes, along with thousands of others in the stadium.

The things that motivate us to participate in, watch and enjoy sport are in some respects not so different to those that motivate us to politics. There's something almost primal, tribal about it. Something that transcends reason. Identification with one's team; us vs them. War by proxy. And that something belongs to neither the left nor the right despite comedy right-wingers bloviating about how football or baseball or whatever is a metaphor for AMERICA by god and despite caricature leftists tut-tutting at the sad ignorance of people who follow sports when they should focus on more important things.

[sibelian]

18. Things that transcend reason

are not entirely to be trusted.

[LanternWaste]

22. Like art? Like love?

Like art? Like love?

Out of curiosity, precisely (and with relevance) why are we not to entirely trust a thing which may transcend reason?

[sibelian]

31. Because reason has mechanisms to find out when it's gone wrong.

With regards to art - the absence of trust in art is well maintained in most, with good reason. I hesitate to precipitate Godwin's Law but the Third Reich's movies really were beautiful to look at. In short - depends on the art.

Love? Is there any undertaking more hotly contested, or more widely chroniclied in literature? We might trust a lover, but trust Love? Hearts are treacherous. Hearts betray. In short - depends on the love.

Some things that transcend reason can be trusted, they are what they appear to be though the appearance was not reached through reason. There was nothing to prepare me from my collection of Van Goch postcards for the impact of his actual paintings, which were made to be seen for what they were - acts of devotion. Damien Hirst just wanted my attention, and for no good reason.

I have been in love many times. And sometimes the lover was not what they appeared to be. My current sweetheart (such a sentimental fellow, kindness personified, a paragon of ordinary decency) is exactly, EXACTLY what he appears to be.

Some things that transcend reason can be trusted. Some things that transcend reason cannot.

Hence - " are not entirely to be trusted".

Things that are reached by the process of reason can never be anything other than exactly what they appear to be (except to those who wish to attach their own personal values to them in possible delusion) because reason seeks what is first and what that implies, or how it appears second. At least, that's what it's supposed to do.

Says I.

[LanternWaste]

35. Trust in that of which we do not have full knowledge

Trust in that of which we do not have full knowledge is the classical definition of faith. :shrug:

Regardless, I trust love to be love-- though many things may appear as love, they are indeed not.

[sibelian]

40. Yes,

I suppose what I should have said is that the transcendence of reason (faith) should not be mistaken for it's wilful circumvention (ignorance).

Love, well. Nice when it works. I think it's often expected to carry more weight on its shoulders than it should. I think it's *for* something, it's for joining people, and sometimes it's not used for this purpose.

As if you didn't know these things! Who am I to come over all wise? :)

[Enrique]

19. that sounds like a critique of sports, not a defense

for example you say "us vs. them". Is that good? I see it as dysfunctional. For example fans of one team hating, I mean really hating, even sometimes assaulting, fans of another team.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. Neither good nor bad; human.

There's a nice irony in the fact that you're on a partisan political message board asking a question like that; isn't partisan politics by definition just as dysfunctional then?

[Enrique]

26. if partisan politics gets to be "us vs. them" then it's dysfunctional imo

in fact I just made that point in this other thread, which actually reminded me of "sports fan" type thinking. Are we Democrats because the Dem party is our home team?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x814447

[Spider Jerusalem]

28. Partisan politics is by definition us vs them", that's what makes it partisan.

You can be high-minded and insist it's a clash of ideologies, part of an ongoing Hegelian dialectic, whatever, but that doesn't really hold up for most political partisans, I'm afraid.

[Enrique]

33. I don't know what a Hegelian dialectic is

but I do know that I became a Democrat and I remain a Democrat as the result of thinking, not because they are my home team.

[DefenseLawyer]

15. Throw me into the football loving abyss as well

I even played football in high school. I know. I know. I'm so ashamed.

[pokerfan]

16. What kind of progressive are you?

Don't you know that we're all supposed to like and hate the same sports/movies/music/television/magazines/games/jokes/art?

[Taverner]

25. I don't hate football. I even loves me some Beaver Games.

But if anything ever happened at my Alma Mater Oregon State like that at Penn State, I'd be calling for heads to roll.

[trumad]

32. Its simple Will

The anti-sport folks hated playing sports when they were kids and when they were forced to, were always picked last.

It left a serious mark in their psych and therefore I forgive them for their sickness.

[Nostradammit]

34. Do you forgive us for lamenting a culture that allowed a ten year old to be raped

so a football program wouldn't be "embarrassed?"

[trumad]

37. big brush you got there.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. Which is no different to coverups of similar activity in churches. Schools. By Boy Scout leaders.

It's not about football, it's about institutions. Which are really more similar than different; respected figure gets accused of heinous crime, and faced with damage to reputation and so on, they close ranks and tell him to be a good boy (which of course he doesn't thinking he can keep getting away with it).

[Prometheus Bound]

41. Is this some sort of a joke?

[Scout]

42. oh for fuck's sake

what a lame-ass piece of amateur psychology

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. This is the kind of remark people make after spending too much time in the Sports forum

They become so used to automatically insulting people and pretending that they are superior that they forget that it's a rude, hateful way to spend their life.

You really do need to spend less time in there.

[SomethingFishy]

53. Bullshit. Huge bullshit.

I am "anti-sports" as you call it. When I was a kid I played Baseball and Football. Wasn't great at Football but was a decent Baseball player.

What left a serious "mark on my psyche" was watching the parents from two teams get into a shouting match which devolved into a fight between 2 of the fathers, over a bad call. I was 12 years old and watched 2 grown men beat the crap out of each other over a bad call in a game which they weren't even playing. I walked away and never went back.

When my son wanted to play ball I signed him up, and he lasted about 4 years before he had finally had enough of Little LEague coaches who think they are playing the World Series and screaming parents who get all bent out of shape if their kid gets called out.

See it's not the sports I don't like, it's the people involved in them.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

63. I was often picked last

Never bothered me, really. And I watch sports.

[JoeyT]

72. And the pro crowd

are all fat middle-aged losers well past their prime that never shut up about how they were awesome enough to play professional sports but for some reason beyond their control were never invited to. So now they live vicariously through others so they aren't forced to see how sad they really are.

Broad brushes are silly as hell.

[ProfessorGAC]

83. You Sure?

I'm 5'9" and 148 pounds, and i still have all my hair, and it's only now turning gray, despite being in my mid-50's.

I actually was an accomplished boxer and basketball player in HS and college. And, i've never said i was good enough to be a pro.

You want to prove the broad brush point any further? You are being unintentionally ironic.

Or you willfully made up your statements just to make a point.

[JoeyT]

87. I was being snarky.

It was an example of how silly broad brushes are.

I was just describing the sports fan that everyone knows (and hates) to counter the broad brushing of people that dislike sports. I don't view sports as being any different from video games: an enjoyable time waster if you're in to that sort of thing. I'm a current athlete in a sport even more likely to draw ire on here than football, and if I ever went pro the amount of time it'd take me to be beaten or choked unconscious would be measured in nanoseconds.

[fishwax]

93. I don't think it's that simple, trumad

That seems to be a rather big brush. I've known plenty of people who were athletic and who were good at sports but who don't enjoy either specific sports or the culture of sports in America.

[LanternWaste]

36. what happened to Baylor University in '86 will happen to Penn.

I began watching the NFL in 1992. My roommate was a huge fan so I had little choice on Sundays. In addition, we had just gotten a Sega Genesis machine, and the only game we had for a while was Madden '92. So I see that as the watershed year for football-- I began not merely watching it, but understanding it, enjoying it, and rooting for my local sports collective.

Fast forward to two years ago when Vick was reinstated to the league and I began my own personal boycott until he's gone. I really do miss watching the games, the game analyses, and the pre- and post-game shows. But I'll deal with it, and I'm looking forward to the day when I can pop open a cheap beer, surround myself with bags of chips and salsa, and watch a freakin' game again!!!!

That said, tt this point, I think that by the end of the season, what happened to Baylor University in '86 will happen to Penn.

[saras]

38. I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me

If I were to practice enough willful denial, I MIGHT be able to enjoy football.

But once I learned the facts about brain damage, I can't imagine myself going there ever.

[Fire Walk With Me]

39. A couple of months back, some flatmates had football on and they strutted out W.

Everyone cheered.

I don't understand.

[Fire Walk With Me]

55. Sorry, unclear. The flatmates didn't cheer; the stadium crowd did.

No sign of dissent, didn't hear any booing.

[postatomic]

43. Football is all about money. Obscene amounts of money

Football stopped being a 'team sport' long ago. Check out the donations of NFL owners and College Coaches. The Republican Party really loves 'em some football too.

You like Football? That's cool. Do you have one of those velvet paintings of dogs playing poker in your "man cave"?

[Bonobo]

46. So was Nixon nt

[Art_from_Ark]

79. Nixon even attended the college football "Game of the Century"

Arkansas vs. Texas, December 6, 1969

[Wait Wut]

47. He was obviously a corporatist asshole.

Hopefully, he wasn't a Pats fan. Then he'd be a lying, cheating, corporatist asshole. Heh. :P

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. I say this jokingly (and as the daughter of an NFL owner) that football

was a way to talk to my dad when I was a kid, but there is a lot of truth there. My father skipped out on a family dinner with his in-laws in order to listen to the Ice Bowl. He is one of the few Packer fans his age who does not claim to have been there. There is a long standing joke that, if everyone who claims they were there that day actually was, for Starr's amazing quarterback sneak, there would have been 3.2 million fans at Lambeau. But, I'm getting away from the subject. I remember sitting with my Dad on Sunday, watching a game or two- The sound of a referee's whistle was soothing when one took an afternoon nap on the couch. The sounds of the game have always been comforting to me. When we lived in NC only one Packer game was shown on television the entire season. We were outside playing and my dad locked the door, so as not to be disturbed. My brother did something silly, and ended up ripping a huge tear in his ear lobe. He stood outside the door, blood working its way through the gaps in his fingers as he held his hand to his ear, just outside the basement family room...My father, seated on a footstool, kept waving him off (not noticing the blood) because the game was on. He still feels bad about that. When I was 12, we were at one of many games we went to at the Silverdome. At the time, it was cheap entertainment, and the Lions were yet to be truly bad. I remember asking my dad something about downs... He turned, looked at me and said,"You mean all this time I've been buying you a ticket and you don't even know how the freaking game is played?" And so he taught me, and football became more than just the background music in my life. It became a passion. Packer fans are known for their passion...and there are worse things that one can be passionate about.

When I was dating my husband, he would be amazed that my dad would sit and watch football all day, every day, on Sundays. He thought Lombardi was the coach of the Bears. My dad and my future husband got off to a rocky start. My husband began sitting and watching the games, moved on to becoming a fairly decent Packer fan...and then became a traitor. Living in Detroit he took more of an interest in the Lions than was fair to those who coached him on how to watch football (<<<this is a joke for all of you serious ones). Every year he was sure they would succeed... He was Barry Sanders biggest fan, while I seethed that Sanders should have been a Packer (stupid first round Tony Mandarich pick...and don't even ask me who Mandarich is because I have a headache today already). Our son chose to follow in his father's footsteps, our daughter bleeds green and yellow, but only sometimes. We joke that she has a life. One Christmas we bought my dad shares in the Packers, when they opened up. That's why I can call myself the daughter of an NFL owner.

There are times when I could not bring myself to watch football. In 1997 the Packers won the Super Bowl. We had looked forward to that game. I sat in front of the game and didn't see it... we had lost a baby a few days before. The only image I can recall of that game is Brett Favre running like a 10 year old, helmet in hand, after the first touchdown. I missed the entire 2007 season, because anything 2007 held too many memories of my husband. My mother went with my son to the Thanksgiving Day game that year. I declined. So football isn't the only thing in my life, or what I am about, but it was a big thing... and there is nothing wrong with that.

My son now plays football in Middle School. That he made the team is amazing in Texas, considering he's a Michigan boy, and the football ranking starts at about age 8 down here. Do I worry about him? With every fiber of my being. I worry about him on the field, when I drop him off at school (because kids do stupid stuff and get hurt all the time), when he takes off on his bike, when he goes to sleep at night. He has two Calvin Johnson jerseys, an Ndmakong Suh, and a Stafford (my family spoils him-I only have a Favre which I now call a throwback). He is a huge Megatron fan...and when you read up on Calvin, you will see he is a really amazing man, and also a good person. Not quite as good as Donald "Quickie" Driver, but he's close.

Football has been a good, and sometimes sad, thing in our family. And I don't need to defend that, but I do like to share it with other fans. My father is an incredible human being, he has been the rock on which I've leaned in the years after everything happened with Leonard---when every one else moved on. And I love nothing more than sitting around on Sunday with him, catching a game, or two...who the hell am I kidding... it's typically three, with him. He just went back home after spending a month down here to---you guessed it---watch his grandson play football. He never played the game himself, but he bursts with pride to see his grandson on the gridiron.


Football isn't the problem---people are.

[RagAss]

52. Thanks for this wonderful post...

The first game I ever remember watching with my dad on TV back in Connecticut was the 1967 NFL Championship Game - The Ice Bowl..I was 8 years old and because of that game and that Sunday afternoon with my father, I played the sport in High School and in College.....and the limp I walk with today is worth it !!!!!

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. I wish I could say I had seen it...I was born right when everything

went to crap (1970)... I am hoping they could go undefeated in my father's lifetime here. That would be something. Who did you play for in college?

[RagAss]

60. UCONN. - really smalltime back then in the late 70's early 80's...basically smalltime today...hehehe

[easttexaslefty]

54. Awesome story.

:hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. Thanks

:hug:

[JanMichael]

71. :)

loved reading this. Even through the sadness, I love the common thread of football through the generations of your family.

[ScreamingMeemie]

86. I always tell people that somehow I screwed up and created a

monster in my son. He has the same level of passion, just for the wrong team. :)

[WilliamPitt]

80. HOW

are you the daughter of an NFL owner?

Please feel free to PM the answer.

[Prometheus Bound]

82. Para. 2

One Christmas we bought my dad shares in the Packers, when they opened up. That's why I can call myself the daughter of an NFL owner.

[sad sally]

49. Football is a game; however, when colleges are raising tuitions

cutting academic programs, faculty members and support staff while maintaining a "top of the line" athletic program and paying millions to coaches, but leaving students and the public to shoulder the cost of supporting these sports programs through tuition fees and tax dollars, something is amiss.

Sure, some of the players go on to become professionals, and you can argue that they wouldn't have that chance if they didn't play college games. These sports programs, including ticket and merchandise sales and broadcast contracts, are big business. But where does all that money go? Does the moneymaking potential of intercollegiate athletics justify the cost to maintain those programs at the expense of everything else?

And if college athletes are given free scholarships, why not give free education to all other professions?

[TransitJohn]

75. If schools didn't have football they'd still be raising tuitions and cutting academic programs

and women's sports, too.

[isuphighyeah]

51. Didn't someone connected to the

Johnny Gosch/Franklin scandal say they saw Dr. Thompson at one of those things?
Hunter was an anarchist by the way, not a liberal.

[KamaAina]

56. And Barack Obama is a huge basketball fan.

Deal with it, sports H8Rs.

[KamaAina]

78. And Jon Stewart is a huge baseball fan.

Even if it is the Mets. :P

Do I really need to go on?

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. The Kennedy family was mad about football.

[Fumesucker]

62. A lot of us went to school and interacted with football players..

If you had a negative interaction with a few football players or even just one it's easy to see them all as testosterone pumped thick necked moronic bullies although that is a false impression.

http://www.timgreenbooks.com/

If you didn't become part of the cult, particularly in football-mad high schools, you were made to feel unwelcome at school in many subtle and some not so subtle ways.

I suspect that's what's driving the feelings around here.

Football is very much a team sport and not everyone is comfortable in that sort of environment.

[bluedigger]

64. HST, football, and the Hegelian dialectic.

I love this thread. :yourock:

[JitterbugPerfume]

68. sometimes Liberals can be STUPID jerks!

All of a sudden FOOTBALL is anti liberal?

[stevedeshazer]

70. I like football, too.

But I'm not so obsessed by it that I can ignore wrongdoing when I see it. Apparently, some defenders of JoPa are.

I join you as a liberal football fan. My Ducks take on Stanford tomorrow, and I'll be watching and rooting.

For the record, I'm against anyone who abuses children. This and enjoying a good football game are not mutually exclusive.

+1.

[rustydog]

74. I love watching football..Go Huskies...Keep sucking Seahawks!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

77. ...

<<<<<<

Loathe college athletics for its culture of idol worship, sacred cow and scapegoat programs, and other ridiculous nuances, such as, schedule making.

[JVS]

81. I don't really think of HST as a moral exemplar.

[WilliamPitt]

84. I do.

[JVS]

91. Do you think that Raoul Duke had a moral obligation to report Dr. Gonzo for his sexual abuse of...

the underaged girl?

[alphafemale]

85. I'm not really sure HST was a Liberal. A Hedonist? absolutely

But while I love the crap out of his stuff and loved HIM while he was here....I just think he was unclassifiable.

He was probably a tad...okay more than a tad...misogynistic for the liberal banner.

But I LOVE football.

I have loved it since I was a kid.

I love the dance of the defense reading a play and shutting it down tight.

I love the beauty of a line backer slicking by defenders, finding a pocket and snagging a football from midair when he is in a corner of the endzone.

And yes. God help me...I love the brutal, heaving force of fight for an inch or not.


But all that is nothing. The Penn State football program is obviously severely compromised.

If there was ever a time to sterilize the ground this is it.

I really hate that there will be unintended victims because of this.

Kids who have focused their athletic careers...but I really think there are people who will take care of them. I doubt a kid with Pro-potential is going to miss out on a career because of this.

No matter what happens.

But there were very REAL VICTIMS.

We need to take care of THEM.

[zonkers]

89. Yup, that's plain stupid. I ignore it. I love me my sports..

And my Hunter S. Thompson.

[1gobluedem]

90. I love football and I love sports

I have a degree in history and I'm the GM of an NPR-affiliated public radio station. I've been interested in politics since 1968 when my mother had me ringing doorbells and licking envelopes for Eugene McCarthy. I'm a voracious reader, subscribe to two newspapers and read many more online. I wear Birkenstocks, drive a fuel efficient car, shop at the Farmers' Market, boycott WalMart and live like a "good liberal."

I also grew up in high school football stadiums because my father was a high school football coach, in addition to teaching history, government, and foreign policy. My mother has a masters degree in Victorian Lit. We all have degrees from the University of Michigan.

And we all love football. Because of football, I saw kids who were in danger of dropping out or burning out, stay in school and stay straight. Because of football and the positive experience my father gave to so many kids, grateful parents would drop by our house just to thank him. Because of football and the extra income it brought in, I got to go away to college.

Plus it's a great game. It teaches strategy, it takes skill and creativity, and, when coached the right way, it shows kids that the team always comes before the individual.

It brings people together. It's exciting. All sports do. Just watch Jim Leyland's speech after the Detroit Tigers won the AL Central and tell me that sports can't connect people in a positive way.

If people don't like football, fine. You don't have to. I don't like mall movies or reality TV. But I don't stereotype those who do. I have a program host who is our former Democratic Member of Congress, who lost her seat due to redistricting. She is an incredible polititian, a lawyer, a professor, and an outstanding constitutional scholar. On a recent bus trip to Chicago she brought along some reading material: People Magazine, US Magazine, and the National Enquirer. How would you judge HER at first glance?

[gauguin57]

92. And please remember that Penn State is not merely its football program.

It's a large educational and research institution, with several branch campuses across the state.

The football program needs to be cleaned out ... no question. And people need to quit worshiping at the altar of Joe Paterno. But the students who go to that school because it's a great school in so many academic disciplines shouldn't be punished because of what some coaches and administrators did.

A yearly dance marathon called THON at PSU is the largest student-run philanthropy in the world. It's raised over $78 million for children w/cancer and their families.

There have been so many distinguished alumni of that school. Did you know that two alumni of PSU wrote the script for "Casablanca"? There's an alum directing "Saturday Night Live." The famed "Afghan Girl" photo in National Geographic was taken by a Penn State grad. Several screenwriters and directors have come out of Penn State. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists. Newberry Award-winning children's book authors. NPR correspondents. All sorts of ground-breaking scientists and engineers. The guy who oversaw the DNA testing that identified 9/11 victims. One of the main engineers on the rebuilding of One World Trade. Rosey Grier. Grammy-award-winning songwriter Mike Reid. And it goes on and on.

Don't judge the student body by one night of misbehavior by one group of students. Alcohol, emotion, immaturity and mob mentality can easily rule the night on a college campus.

And, yes; I am a proud Penn State alumna, who hardly ever watches PSU football anymore. I'm proud of the quality of the school as an educational institution. Many of my family members went there, and some worked there -- no one working anywhere near Beaver stadium.

[flvegan]

94. Welcome to DU!!!

I doubt you expected many of these responses. Allow me to reel you back in, dear sir.