So, OK, it’s not the victory that we wanted. We wanted Obama to kill the pipeline ...

[bigtree]

from DemocracyNow: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/11/11/naomi_klein_obama_delays_keystone_xl


In late August and early September, over 1,200 people were arrested in Washington, D.C., in a two-week campaign of civil disobedience. Among those arrested in August was the Canadian writer Naomi Klein . . .

NAOMI KLEIN: Just a few hours ago, the White House announced that it is going to have a new environmental review for the Keystone XL pipeline. That review is going to take at least a year, and the company that wants to build the Keystone XL pipeline, TransCanada, has said that it can’t handle another delay, that their investors will lose faith. You know, investors don’t like economic uncertainty. And they’ve already dealt with a lot. The review is going to be looking at rerouting the pipeline around the Ogallala Aquifer, and TransCanada has also said that they can’t reroute it around the aquifer and still have this project be economically feasible.

So, OK, it’s not the victory that we wanted. We wanted Obama to kill the pipeline because of what the pipeline is carrying, which is tar sands dirty oil, which is catastrophic, no matter how you pipe it, for the planet, for the climate. But we knew we weren’t going to get that. We knew we weren’t going to get that in an election year, because the right would have gone to town on Obama as a job killer. But we believe that this delay will kill the pipeline. And if it doesn’t, if this pipeline reemerges after the election, people have signed pledges saying they will put their bodies on the line to stop it and that civil disobedience, that I and 1,200 others engaged in outside the White House with the arrests this fall, that this will become actions in front of bulldozers. I mean, people are ready to take that type of action. And so, we put them on notice.

But when we started this campaign, we—and this was just three months ago that the first protests happened outside the White House—we thought we had a very slim chance of winning, like a kind of a 1 percent chance of winning. And when Occupy Wall Street happened, I had a conversation with Bill McKibben, who has just been the powerhouse behind this campaign, just a hero. And I said to Bill, "I think this is helping us. What do you think?" And he said, "I think it’s helping us, too." And the reason we believe this is because—precisely what Patrick was talking about—the ground has shifted, the climate has shifted. And what it would mean for Obama to cave in to this corporation, especially after we exposed all the cronyism going on between TransCanada and the State Department and TransCanada and the White House, this kind of corruption is precisely what’s on trial in parks and plazas around the world right now. And now that it’s been exposed, this has become the ultimate example. You know, as Bill said, we’re occupying—we’re occupying Wall Street because Wall Street is occupying the State Department. So there is a—there’s been a clear connection between, and a conversation between, these campaigns. I don’t think we would have won without Occupy Wall Street. I really—I can’t imagine how we could have. And this is what it means to change the conversation. And that’s why this whole idea—you know, "What are their demands?" and, you know, "What are they trying to accomplish?" There are already victories happening. And this is just one example of it.


read and watch: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/11/11/naomi_klein_obama_delays_keystone_xl

[daleanime]

1. And we need every win we can get....

:bounce:

[hedgehog]

2. I think he has killed the pipeline, but killed it in a manner that keeps

the Republicans from beating him over the head with it. If Obama had killed the pipeline outright, then the Republicans would have accused him of killing jobs and making it hard to develop our oil (although how Canadian oil being trans-shipped overseas becomes our oil is beyond me!) Now, in order to make an issue out of this, the Republicans have to explain that the delay for further review isn't needed and that it kills the project because it's worth doing this year but not next year. It's too complicated to put into a sound bite now!

[backscatter712]

4. Works for me!

Obama knows how to play the game well enough to keep the Repubs off-balance.

[GoCubsGo]

8. I think you are dead-on correct.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't understand why this pipeline ends on the Gulf Coast. They think it will end up as "our oil", rather than oil-filled sludge that will be pumped onto tankers and shipped elsewhere.

[RainDog]

12. exactly. n/t

just call a victory a victory.

[truedelphi]

3. If Obama was really worried about jobs, he could forget the pipeline, and

also forget to have his DOJ going after hemp growers and medical marijuana clinics.

I watched the C Span heairngs, with so many people ardently describing the reason why the Keystone XL pipeline would be a disaster. And in ninety minutes of watching the testimony, the only thing I heard about jobs was that six hundred jobs would be created in Montanta.

Jeesh! Medical marijuana creates over six hundred jobs just in my little neck of the woods.

But really and truly, the real reason that Obama should veto any possibility for this aquifer-destroying project to come about is this one -

Vetoing Keystone XL Pipeline is the right thing to do!

[hedgehog]

5. The problem is that the Republicans would make outrageous lies

about the number of jobs killed by Obama. Trying to explain that no, there aren't thousands of good jobs involved is like trying to explain that you never beat your wife!

[GoCubsGo]

7. Exactly right.

Too many people have already bought into their lies that this thing is a boon for jobs and energy. The President just bought us all another year to set the record straight.

[dflprincess]

10. And delayed his decision until after next year's election

which makes me nervous about what will happen when candidate Obama once disappears and we get President Obama back.

[bigtree]

15. the delay doesn't stop the activism against the project

. . . for some cynicism might, though.

[truedelphi]

33. Sadly, some of us know exactly what the delay means.

If a Repug gets in the WH, the project will be approved.

If Obama is re-elected, the project will be approved.

Same as it ever was.

[bigtree]

34. you know how weak that sounds?

[bvar22]

6. Sounds like a punt to me.

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[bigtree]

9. could be

. . . a bit more to it than that, I believe.

[SwampG8r]

11. killed it as a campaign issue is how he killed it it will return after november

[XemaSab]

13. word

The tar sands WILL be developed. This thing has NOT gone away.

[bigtree]

14. the environmental review isn't expected to be completed until 2013 -by that time

. . . it's expected to fall under its own weight. Couple that with the opportunity to spend the year or so lobbying against it . . . the plan has the thing running through 3 states.

What's the purpose in spreading the cynicism at the point where we've forced this delay? Sometimes I think folks are too focused on their gripes with the President and not enough of taking advantage of the openings we have. It almost seems like a deliberate distraction for some. How many folks did absolutely nothing to highlight this issue or protest it because they assumed nothing could be done to change the President's mind? We are light years from where we were just months ago, all because determined folks kept the pressure on. Now we have over a year to mobilize, organize, and advocate against it further.

[Fumesucker]

16. So once again Obama increases the cynicism of those who would be inclined to vote for him..

In order to placate those who would never vote for him.

Sounds like a smart move to me. :eyes:

[bigtree]

17. that assumes all the opposition would come from the left

you'd probably be fine leaving him exposed to the flack from the right-wing. Me, I'm understand and expect politicians to make political decisions. Of course, most folks criticizing him on a full time basis don't give a damn a bout his political future. Good for them.

Folks should quit pretending he can't be moved and get active. The cynicism looks more and more like just an excuse for folks to do nothing at all to advocate against the issue. I'd bet that the majority of folks who jump on these threads (many without a clue where the project stood) haven't raised a finger to oppose the project, but can find the time to post their daily cynical remark. Who needs that?

[NNN0LHI]

18. Obama derangement syndrome is rampant

Driving some people completely out their minds.

Don

[Fumesucker]

19. What exactly are you trying to say?

Go ahead, spit it out, don't mealy mouth.

[bigtree]

20. you, in particular

. . . are mainly a sideshow on my threads, using this Democratic presidency as your prop.

. . . my two pennies.

edited to change 'performance artist on this board' to 'sideshow on my threads'.

[Fumesucker]

21. And yet I routinely post negative stories about Republicans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2288228

That was yesterday, I have many more like that up.

See also this post to perhaps understand a bit where I'm coming from..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2288789&mesg_id=2288867

Here's a post I put up on Jan 21, 2009, do I sound negative about Obama then?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=280x49419

[bigtree]

22. good for you

[Fumesucker]

25. Still think I'm a "performance artist"?

AKA Troll?

[bigtree]

27. I take that back

. . . if that's what it means.

I'm kind of old and not very savvy with lingo . . . I truly meant that you have a type of act that you maintain here with one-liners (many, many on my threads). Even though I don't take your quips and jibes very seriously, I'm really not trying to imply you're a troll. Sorry.

[Fumesucker]

28. Apology accepted..

I very much feel suckered by Obama for a number of reasons, you can see how I felt about things on Jan 21, 2009 by looking at this post I put up that very morning, in particular note my reply to the first response..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=280x49419

[bigtree]

30. well, I'll have to take another look at your attempts at humor

. . . and glean more than just cynicism from them.

[Fumesucker]

31. I've been honing my rhetoric since before the internet..

I started arguing politics on dialup BBSes, in fact my first ever internet connection came through a dial up line connected to one of the first BBSes in the country to link to the internet, I then moved on to usenet political newsgroups that make DU look like Romper Room when it comes to attacks because most of them are unmoderated. Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead is the usenet style and it's hard to kick.

Trust me, I'm dialing it back almost as far as I can go rhetorically.

:hi:

[truedelphi]

35. I do hope you are right.

But prematurely celebrating the decision to merely delay as being the end of the problem doesn't help.

Like Joe Hill was saying, a long time ago, "Organize."

[Nevernose]

23. This is how Reid got Yucca Mountain killed

Nickel and dimed it to death, a delay here, a delay there, lots of bad environmental studies (it was a stupid project to begin with). The fact that Yucca Mt. sits on multpile active faultlines and earthquakes destroyed much of the work on it at least twice didn't help keep things on schedule, either.

[bigtree]

26. this debate really does remind me of Yucca

The way the project snakes though several states has the same potential for multi-fronted opposition that Yucca did. Wait until the individual state legislatures get involved. I imagine we can raise a good deal of money for some court challenges in the interim, as well.

I do remember how many folks were saying Yucca was a done deal. Incidentally, it was this President who put the first significant stake in the Yucca project's heart by zeroing out the funding and withdrawing the project's license application.

[Nevernose]

32. It was payback to Reid

It wasn't Durbin who gotted Obama started on the national stage, it was Reid. Reid was using Obama to get out the black vote in other states well before he gave that convention speech, and Reid took him as a speaker to several black Democrat fundraisers (also in Nevada). Reid groomed him, and Yucca Mountain has been Southern Nevada's number one issue since the Screw Nevada bill in the mid 80s.

[MadHound]

24. This is just a delay tactic until after the election,

And I seriously doubt it will change the outcome in the end. Polite political mouthings will be made, but in the end, the pipeline will go through as originally planned.

All this is is political theater to show that Obama is an "environmental president", and take the issue off the table for next year. After that, all bets are off, since if reelected, Obama won't have to worry about what people actually want.

[bigtree]

29. yours is actually a minority view among activists and observers

. . .the former convinced that the delay affords them an opportunity to mobilize successfully against it, and the latter convinced that the project can't or won't bear such a long delay. That's been the consensus for some time now. That's why many activists opposed to the project wrote in praise of the President's decision to delay the project; including that well-know environmentalist and ass-kisser:sarcasm: Robert Redford yesterday who thanked the President for standing up to the oil companies.

As you can read in the op, this activist believes that there won't be any room for the President to roll over the opposition with so much time afforded by the delay to mobilize and generate even more opposition. Makes sense to me.

At any rate, it doesn't make any sense to me to be so cynical in the face of this activist-inspired delay. It's pure opportunity for our opposition.