Obama's payroll holiday will cost $1.2 quadrillion dollars

[Still a Democrat]

over 10,000 years.

This is more than value of all the assets in the world. See how irresponsible Obama is.

Given the fact many are ignoring the fact it's for one year and insist it's permanent, this gives us a broader calculation.

Credit: DUer "Statistical"

[Fumesucker]

1. And Dubya's tax cut was only for ten years too..

:eyes:

Edited for speling.

[katnapped]

5. +1 n/t

[Still a Democrat]

7. And two have been added n/t

[Fumesucker]

9. That means the Dubya tax cuts are still in effect..

After they were supposed to expire.

As it is with the income tax cut, so it will be with the payroll tax cut and everyone knows it.

When these cuts expire who is going to bell the cat and raise taxes?

Republicans?

Democrats?

[WinkyDink]

2. No camel's nose for you!

[Poll_Blind]

3. Jejune flamebait. Is this a supporter of the president, or a caricature of one?

:shrug:

PB

[Hello_Kitty]

8. Hard to tell.

[Statistical]

4. Thanks. I thought it was clever when I used it.

[Still a Democrat]

6. Your welcome

and the calculation shows the absurdity of those playing with the number of years.

[gratuitous]

10. And you know what will stick in the public narrative?

The payroll "holiday" will shorten the solvency horizon for social security. It won't shorten it a lot, but the fact that it has been shortened at all will be played up for all the panic it's worth, and then some. We will be told over and over again by Very Serious People that there is a "crisis" in social security funding, and that Something Must Be Done. Lucky for us there was this Bipartisan Commission on Reducing the Deficit last year, and even though it never issued a final report or made any legitimate recommendations, one of the ideas they were batting around was reducing benefits for future retirees and raising the retirement age.

You know what will be deemed a Very Serious Idea that will be Something To Be Done? And you know that anyone who says it's a bunch of hooey will be dismissed as Not Serious about the Deficit Crisis.

If I hadn't seen this movie play out a bunch of times before, I'd be inclined to agree; however, I really think it's all part of a broader scheme to punish working people, steal social security, hand it to the Big Money Boyz, and never have to pay it back.

[Fumesucker]

11. +1 Googolplex

[Jackpine Radical]

12. But it'll take you a googol years

to make that googolplex number of recs.

By then SS will really be out of control.

[gratuitous]

16. Aren't they just so cute?

As if there's an independent reality based on facts that will carry the day, rather than a narrative that's being ginned up to create a crisis or a diversion to distract from what's really going to happen. The naiveté would be endearing if the result wasn't so catastrophic.

[Still a Democrat]

13. The fiscal impact on Social Security is zero

The revenue is being replaced from the general fund. President Obama insisted on that.

[Fumesucker]

14. Which turns SS into "welfare" ..

Mission Accomplished..

[NickB79]

24. Relying on the general fund for part of it's funding makes it vulnerable to Republican attacks

That's why it was set up as it was by FDR to be self-sufficient 70 frigging years ago.

[Statistical]

29. SS will require general funding no matter what starting in 2015.

[Statistical]

15. False the payroll tax holiday will have absolutely no effect on solvency horizon.

The $120B not paid by payroll taxes will be paid by general fund.

Net-net not a single penny change in the value of the SSA trust.

[Fumesucker]

17. Which promptly turns SS into a welfare program..

And we all know how much Americans looooove welfare programs.

Mission Accomplished.

[Statistical]

18. Hardly. Everyone pays, everyone gets a benefit.

That is unlike any welfare program I have ever seen.

Show me some polls that indicate a greater % of the population thinks SS is welfare and we can talk.

[Fumesucker]

20. But now that SS is coming at least in part from general revenue..

We all know it won't take the right wingers long at all to point to it as a form of welfare.

Which is the plan, make SS appear like welfare and it will go the way of AFDC.

[emulatorloo]

22. Right Wingers say a lot of stupid shit that isn't true. n/t

[Fumesucker]

30. Yeah, things like "Saddam has WMDs"...

The point being that a big percentage of the population will buy a lie if it is repeated often enough and loud enough, something at which the right wingers excel.

Saddam didn't have WMDs but we invaded Iraq because a lot of Americans believed that loudly and often told lie.

[Statistical]

23. You are aware SS will be partially funded via general fund revenue starting in 2015 no matter what.

So if you are right then SS is doomed no matter what. Starting in 2015 SS expenditures will be greater than revenue and the difference will be paid by general fund (and contribute to deficit). So if funds from general fund = death of SS then the death is unavoidable.

Still this claim of yours is unsupported. I haven't heard anyone make that claim (even among those who have always wanted to destroy SS). No polls indicate people believes SS is welfare. It remains almost universally popular across all demographics. Given payroll tax is still 4.2% most people will consider SS an earned benefit and not something people get for free.

Lastly none of this has anything to do with your false claim that Obama has shortened SS insolvency horizon. The reality is it hasn't.

[emulatorloo]

19. Which blogger told you that?

Did s/he know what s/he was talking about?

[tkmorris]

21. You fail to address the chief objection

Which is that any tax "cut" (holiday, break, freebie, whatever), no matter how temporary, brings with it enormous pressure on politicians to extend it or make it permanent. A good rule of thumb would be to never create a tax break you do not want to exist forever because chances are good it will be.

I'd love to have an honest civil discussion about that particular problem, but haven't yet found anyone willing to join me.

[jtown1123]

25. You make an excellent point. Hope the OP responds.

[emulatorloo]

27. Like Cash for Clunkers?

[Statistical]

28. Making Work Pay credit expired.

Mortgage credit expired.
Cash for clunkers expired.

The economy is fragile stimulus is effective.
As the economy recovers and deficit hawks get bolder I expect tax cuts to expire.

[treestar]

26. But the death panels will save 1.4 quadrillion dollars!

Over the next 5000 years!

[mmonk]

31. Why did Obama add to the bush tax cuts?

Why did it have to be the funding mechanism for social security? People can play games all they want but it sucks big time. I still haven't decided how it will affect my future support.