Are you under 30? Does this song have any meaning for you and your generation?

[Missy Vixen]

Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SswXJX6X-ow (Warning: Photos from Kent State in video.)

Do you believe that the protest music (and musicians,) of the late '60's has meaning for OWS and the current generation, or are these musicians too old to understand your struggles?

I've been listening to the above song ever since I was old enough to have control over what I listened to. When I think of OWS, I hear the above, and I hear Ten Years After.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzrUqAtUcpU

What are your thoughts?

[DianeK]

1. i am of your generation and i just wanted to add to your list

Buffalo Springfield's Something's Happening Here

[Missy Vixen]

2. I agree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnWDVPINu60

Thanks, Diane.

[hootinholler]

34. IIRC, the name of that song is For What It's Worth

And it has been running through my head for a couple of months now.

[waddirum]

62. actual title is "For What It's Worth"

nt

[TygrBright]

3. That one, and "For What It's Worth," and Dylan's "Times They Are a-Changin'"

But then, I'm an old fart.

reminiscently,
Bright

[msongs]

4. a guess: "Ohio" no, "For what it's worth" Yes....

Ohio requires historical knowledge, For What It's Worth can be applied to any similar situation present or past. My history with For what its Worth is we used to hang out on Sunset Strip at the time those incidents happened lol

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. This should go well...

:popcorn:

[Cirque du So-What]

6. I had such high hopes when Rage Against the Machine hit the musical scene

I was sooo hoping that it would usher in an era of protest songs being sung in earnest, but I suppose the time wasn't quite right. Here's hoping current events inspire a new generation of protest musicians to get busy.

[ellisonz]

25. RATM is still reverberating.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w211KOQ5BMI&ob=av3e

I wouldn't say they play protest songs - they play kick the Man in the mouth and spit on him type songs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Some do, that particular one doesn't.

Kent state is like in the distant fog now.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. I'm 34

and...the only reason it has any relevance is because for my generation there was really no protest music, there was no protest. The era between the 1970's and the first decade of the 21st century? Largely devoid of grand ideological struggles or any sort of youth protest against much of anything at all. The songs that spoke to my generation were about self-absorbed ennui and existential loneliness; the increasing fracturing and fragmentation of society. Nothing so...collective. Not until the war in Iraq and the War on Terror anyway, and even then the protests and opposition were a minority thing, with relatively little popular culture impact, not something that helped to define the era as the '60's protests did. (I think that what changed that was probably the absence of the military draft as much as anything, honestly. Lots easier to feel unconcerned if there's no chance you could end up being shipped off to some godforsaken corner of the world to fight a war you don't believe in for reasons you don't agree with.)

And on edit: more relevant to today's protests, probably, Rage Against the Machine and "Killing in the Name", with the refrain of "Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me".

[RKP5637]

16. I think that too, the absence of the draft changed a lot. I start to wonder what's

happening in the future, just how many military actions can the US support without volunteers running out eventually. As someone said in another thread, when it's the only job left people will volunteer and keep up the pace.

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Dude, they play that shit in supermarkets now

I know it's hard for you folks to understand, but your whole generation's "protest" music has been used to sell our generations everything from computers to sneakers to fucking luxury cars since the late 1980's. I appreciate your nostalgia, but that shit got bought and sold a long time ago.

[EFerrari]

12. Right, while we bought nothing and went nowhere after 1/1/1969

I know it's hard for folks like you to understand but aside from being consumers, we're also the through line between then and #OWS. Good freaking grief.

[RKP5637]

13. Yeah, I hear it here all the time and it pisses me off. That music used to

mean something, now it's just another F'en commercialized tool in a fascist society.

[BlueToTheBone]

28. I remember when wearing blue jeans meant something

and that was coopted almost immediately. I quit wearing jeans for years because of that and now the jeans they make fall apart in an hour.

[RKP5637]

32. Yep!!! n/t

[RKP5637]

35. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[BlueToTheBone]

61. ...

:hi: Thanks!

[pipi_k]

50. I must be seeing/hearing the wrong commercials...

because I don't see a whole lot of that music being used that way.

I do hear a lot of the more modern stuff, most of which totally sucks gorilla nuts, BTW.

Although some of it isn't bad, and since I'm out of the loop on such things, I do get to hear a couple of good (newer) songs out of the mix of crap, and add them to my library of oldies.


PS...there is one older song I do recall being used on a TV ad...Howlin' Wolf's "Smokestack Lightning". I had never heard it before seeing it in an ad. So I'm glad they do use music to sell stuff...otherwise I wouldn't know about some of it.

[RKP5637]

57. It might be regional differences ... n/t

[DianeK]

17. it's really a pity that you are not able to understand

there is no way i can make you understand that everytime i hear ohio whether it be in the supermarket, the dentist office or on my own sound system, i say a prayer for the families that lost their loved ones on that day

[valerief]

10. The kids have their own songs, I imagine. nt

[Posteritatis]

19. Yep. (nt)

[EFerrari]

11. Maybe people under thirty should be asked about Let's Impeach the President

instead. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIoFGlkJmYw

[EFerrari]

14. DAVID CROSBY & GRAHAM NASH @ Occupy Wall Street "Teach Your Children" Zuccotti Park 11/8/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=444Z2MilczI

[dmallind]

15. 40s here and not much meaning for me

Angsty musicians with a sociopolitical cause are nothing new, and are not absent now or ever really. They had censors in Verdi's time expressly to suppress revolutionary themes in music and drama. He and others still got them in loud and clear - and that was anent an actual revolution, not just protests.

[LeftyMom]

18. Oh great, it's the monthly Let Me Tell You How We Did Socially Conscious Music In My Day thread

[DianeK]

20. Excuse me but.....

it is still my day

[LeftyMom]

21. *facepalm*

[EFerrari]

22. Except the OP didn't do that.

[LeftyMom]

26. It's certainly implied in her asking about younger people's understanding of boomer cultural

touchstones, and not the other way around.

It's a bit silly, when you think about it. The people she's asking about were largely raised, educated and entertained by boomers, so their understanding of their cultural references would be excellent. As is typical of relationships between younger generations and older ones, the awareness of pop culture is largely one-sided.

[Missy Vixen]

27. LM, I was mostly curious

The only song I recall in the past several years that had any kind of protest theme was Pink's "Dear Mr. President".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRhJqbfJh54

If there are others I missed, I'd love to hear them. (The song by John Mayer - I'm not sure it's the same thing at all.)

I am looking forward to the music that will come from OWS.

[LeftyMom]

31. That's kind of my point. I know many more songs have been posted, and many threads about them have

been created. Hell, I've added links to more than a few of them. I don't have search here but I'm sure a quick search would turn up a million such threads, along with many threads posted in the political videos area.

[Missy Vixen]

37. I didn't mean to post something so obviously upsetting

I'll do a search beforehand in the future.

[LeftyMom]

40. It's not upsetting. It's just one of those things that repeats over and over without any progress.

Honestly I think the reason for it is radio, because nothing new that isn't utter shit gets any airplay. So you guys assume we listen to that dreck that's on the radio and you don't know what we're actually up to.

[ellisonz]

43. You probably haven't been playing attention to hip-hop...

291,961,204 views- Eminem - Not Afraid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5-yKhDd64s

110,560,864 views - Travie McCoy: Billionaire ft. Bruno Mars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aRor905cCw&ob=av3e

For good measure: Nas & Damian "Jr. Gong" Marley - Patience http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9VQye6P8k0

[Missy Vixen]

48. I will be listening to them

I also remember Eminem's Mosh. I wanted to get a black hoodie and stand on the street corner outside of the local polling place. My husband was afraid something bad was going to happen.

Thank you for posting these.

[ellisonz]

51. And one more for good measure...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgT1AidzRWM

Considering that Recovery sold a total of 5.9 million copies world-wide and has a total of 300 million views really shows the extent to which people are turning away from radio and album purchases to Youtube and other online music sources. That's middle America tuning into discontented, edgy urban music with a fundamental political message of economic discontent. There's been a dramatic shift away from the hollow pop-commercialism of the late 70s and the 80s towards music that is truly in the heritage of folk musicians like Woody Guthrie. I think the death of Kurt Cobain and the 1992 L.A. Riots were the genesis of this shift. Music without a message may sell at the moment, but nobody is listening to it 5-10-15-20 years later. Aesthetically speaking - it's much more layered and less direct than your classic 1960s protest music. Some groups are more relevant than others from that era because of their musical staying power- for example you'll still find plenty of young people listening to The Doors, Hendrix, or CCR (blame the Big Lebowski) but not so much to Crosby Stills Nash and Young or Simon and Garfunkel.

[davekriss]

49. Check out Zearle

A master of politicized hip hop:

Www.zearle.com

[ellisonz]

55. I was more trying to illustrate the breadth of which political music is getting traction...

...among this generation.

To be honest - the guy is kind of mimicking other artists (just read his conceited about section) and the sampling is predictable. It's whack.

For example: The new family had to move on to Arkansas a week later, since the FBI was closing in on them. Zearle's father was a Vietnam War draft resistor. Zearle's first years were spent underground, going from one small town to another, as his parents followed the crops as migrant workers in the cotton fields and the apple orchards of the deep South and Midwest.

Jedi Mind Tricks- Uncommon Valor (A Vietnam Story):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0KpWMNxnM

Immortal Technique - Peruvian Cocaine (Full)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBRXZNuK3Jo&feature=related

J Boog Feat. Richie Spice - Got To Be Strong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n53BTW_IoSg

[Number23]

70. I don't even know who those folks are that you posted except Eminem

Many hip hop tracks from the late 80s and early 90s (when hip hop actually meant something) was a form of protest. Against racism, against black on black violence, against a racist system that tells blacks that they are nothing and never will be.

It's so funny, I just rediscovered these two tracks last week after not hearing them for YEARS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyR09SP9qdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxyYP_bS_6s

RIP Heavy D!

Edit: Just saw that you included Nas as one of your artists. Practically everything he wrote was poetry. But I have never heard the track you linked to.

"Half man, half amazing"...

[davekriss]

45. You've got to be kidding?

There was tons of great protest songs written an performed around the start of the Iraq invasion. Check out this site:

www.peace-not-war.org

Of course almost none of it got played over major media, so it didn't reach the ears of most. Which is a big difference between then (sixties) and now.

The power elite had no intention of making the same mistakes twice. They bought up and consolidated control of the major media where we can all listen to the likes of Hank Williams Junior until our brains melt into low-information goo.

If course, free speech zones (like DU) have been allowed, but only to retain the semblance of an open society (and so we can be watched - know that you are watched here). However, threaten that power structure and expect steps to close down that "openness" even further. The oft quotes Zappa remarks are relevant here:

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

[Rabblevox]

52. "The only song I recall" Wow, time to update your playlist...

Anything by Billy Bragg

Almost anything by Michael Franti and Spearhead

Almost anything by Green Day

Anything by Rage Against The Machine

Time to widen your musical horizons a bit.

[Kaleko]

53. Missy, we're listening to music from Archive, H.U.V.A Network

and other trip hop, chill, world beat type of bands.

We are ageless and don't watch TV. Radio - only occasionally, in the car maybe.

Would you like a sample or two?
Both songs address the 1% and its minions with their soul-crushing power over all of the rest.

http://www.musictory.com/music/Archive/Whore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpR_LaRQRMI


Archive - lyrics to Whore:

You horrify and petrify me
To wear the crown that just astounds me
You terrorize and paralyze me
You've lost the plot and should be shot down

You have it all
You have it all
You have it all
You have it all

You're just a whore and nothing more
Your smile is pain yet you remain
Walking tall and that appalls me
You're bred like swine but still
You'll die in our arms
'Cause you have it all

You have it all
You have it all
You have it all
You have it all

________________________________________________
Archive: Collapse/Collide with full lyrics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhcDIdStwg

Lyrics to Collapse/Collide

Too late
They hate
Too late
They hate

You’ve jaded
They’ve faded
From your heart
They’ve ripped
It all apart
Our worlds collide

Inside our souls collapsing
In their thoughtless ways
Our hearts collide

They’re correcting
They correct my heart
They’re rejecting
They reject our hearts

Now we are all stoned
They’ve ripped it all apart
Collapse
Collide
Our hearts collide

[bigmonkey]

67. The Arcade Fire writes "protest" songs on the protest level of OWS.

I'd put quite a few of their songs in that category, but some might say they're not specifically political enough. I'd put them in the same category as OWS, speaking to the same categorical condemnation of the system we're in, e.g.:

Rebellion (Lies)
Black Mirror
Keep the Car Running
Wake Up
No Cars Go
Intervention
Antichist Television Blues
Neighborhood #3 (Power Out)


The album The Suburbs is beautiful, moving expression of how it's been to be immersed, to grow up in, in this long disaster the past 30 years, even to the extent of condemning the commerce-driven U.S. urban lack-of-planning that enshrines the car.

It's real polical art. They got me through some of the Bush years, no question about it.

(Recommending music is like begging to be disparaged, but maybe someone will find this useful.)

[bigmonkey]

68. Dupe

Self-delete

[Zorra]

63. Jeebus! Breathe...that's good, now, verrry slowly, back away from the coffee pot.

Good. Take another deep breath, put the cup down. I repeat, put the cup down.

Bad day?

[alfredo]

23. Lennon's "Working Class Hero" might be relevant today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lKwXwU5iWs

[RebelOne]

24. I am way, way over 30 years old and remember that song. n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gato Moteado]

42. yeah right.

30 years ago was 1981....rock music was dead during the 80s. pick a different era.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ellisonz]

30. No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GZlJGERbvE&ob=av2e

[pokerfan]

33. Analysis

http://thrasherswheat.org/fot/ohio.htm

[hootinholler]

36. Crosby has written a new song for this movement as well

Sang it on Countdown in the past couple of weeks.

[NYC_SKP]

38. Here's Crosby, Crosby's son, and Graham Nash at OWS .... singing and playing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgt_Y2_WJ_A

[zerox]

39. I'm 24.

It has meaning for me in the same way, say, as The Grapes of Wrath: a work of past art depicting similar struggles to those we're facing today. Has it lost some meaning with the passage of time? Yeah. I don't even remember Reagan's presidency, let alone Nixon and Kent State.

Can I look back and be influenced and inspired by what happened before? Definitely. But the voices of the 1960s cannot speak for me or my generation, just as the voices of the 1920s or 30s could not speak for yours.

[DianeK]

41. well then..

you must feel very grateful that those of my generation are here side by side with you in this ows fight..we have been there and we can and will do this

[zerox]

56. Of course we are!

Our current societal problems reach far beyond any generational boundaries.

[Missy Vixen]

46. Thank you so much for your response

This is what I was thinking about, but did not have the words to explain adequately.

>But the voices of the 1960s cannot speak for me or my generation, just as the voices of the 1920s or 30s could not speak for yours.<

Whom do you believe speaks for your generation?

[zerox]

54. No one, just yet.

Will that change? Maybe.

OWS, I think, illustrates our generational discontent, and I'm wondering if the leaderless nature of that movement is reflective of us generally. We have grown up with the internet, with instant access to debate and discussion with many millions of people. We are used to communicating our ideas with large and diverse groups, used to listening and considering. We are used to taking ideas from a tremendous (and previously unheard-of) variety of sources to form our opinions. What we are not used to is having a central authority tell us exactly what to think, and we are distrustful of those that try to do so. All of this is not conducive to the rise of any particular voice, but rather encourages the creation of a sort of communal voice, which is maybe what's happened with OWS.

That all may be a weak justification, sure. Will legitimate music, art, and literature come out of the current struggles from my generation? I definitely hope for and expect it. But will we ever have a few distinct people that speak for us? I don't know. Every generation thinks they're a little different from the last, and I guess I'll have to find out how true that actually is.

[Edweird]

47. I'm 40 and the only song I know that directly references Kent State is this one:

http://youtu.be/FIyL8ti3SME

Skinny Puppy - Tin Omen

<all good people are asleep and dreaming>

every truncheon, hit misguided
the peoples army, divided
united stance
amped out war dance
what a ride

inner thought, of non violent rebellion
outside dare to die, stand and fight
show faith, return all the weapons
government says use them right

fixed action set in motion doubting
amnesia potion what to hide red carpet
guessing right

HAHA the jokes on You, dark corner destroyer
HAHA you bath once a week
distorted, the viewpoint, seldom seen

wayback in 68
ohio, kent state
was nothing, so great

have of have not
forcing the point
shot in the back
take it back
down trod soldier away

flower power within me, kill me
kill this, way of life


<all good people are asleep and dreaming>

and be known one by one
they'll be coming down
altogether sister machine gun
automatic high what a ride
what a trip tripped over the candlestick

Firewall, tanks arrive
got to keep the camera alive
tell the world, tell the world, whats going on here

warning shots are fired, at the students chest wound, coed falls
amped out, amped out, amped out, amped out

changing guns for brooms the guards, change to clean up crews

HAHA the jokes on You, dark corner destroyer
HAHA you bath once a week
distorted the viewpoint
seldom seen

way back in 68, every thing was so great
no way, wrong date

keep up the trade
balanced charade
close circuit truth
used to remove
keep the camera alive!

[Gabi Hayes]

59. quite a drummer!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVGhtAp7J0E&feature=related

[Gabi Hayes]

60. btw, I'm listening to the link I posted above, with Jeff Bridges/Austin City Limits on TV with the

sound turned off

[Edweird]

69. My favorite Skinny Puppy song of all time:

http://youtu.be/jYUpRfgl_ug

[Odin2005]

58. This Millennial sez "there's somethin' happenin' here".

:)

[waddirum]

64. What's so amazing about "Ohio"

is that Neil Young had that song written, recorded, and distributed less than 3 weeks after the incident at Kent State. The wounds were very fresh, and this song took over the radio. An amazing example of music changing the collective consciousness.

I'm 42, and always new what "Ohio" was about.

[Missy Vixen]

65. I can still hear the fury and the grief in "Ohio"

To this day, the hair stands up on the back of my neck.

My Western Civ professor told us more than once that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I wonder to myself what he would think of OWS.

[iris27]

66. I am 29, and I know the events the song refers to, but I have never heard it.

However, Green Day's "American Idiot" album and Rage Against the Machine are big in my playlist.

I also, despite generally hating Eminem's music for its misogyny, had Mosh on repeat in 2004 and wore a black hoodie while working GOTV on election day.