I am having a difficult time controlling my anger...

[kentuck]

...with the Democrats on the "Super Committee" talking about making a deal with the Repubs by making the Bush taxcuts permanent if the Repubs will agree to close some loopholes. As soon as they close one loophole, they will find another to open. We know that and they know that.

But, it pisses me off that these assholes that call themselves Democrats have been up there for months negotiating cuts in programs that the people depend on so that they could bring down the humongous deficit created by the Republicans. They have argued non-stop that they need "revenues" before they can agree to any cuts in programs.

They screwed up by extending the Bush taxcuts the last time and now they are debating whether or not to make them permanent? Fuck me running! These sons of bitches don't belong to the same Party as I do and I sure as hell will not vote for their sorry asses again. They can all go straight to hell.

:mad:

[Scuba]

1. Sadly, you are on the money. n/t

[Vincardog]

2. When they raise taxes to the RayGun levels they can cut the military to RAyGun Levels

then we might be ready to talk about cuts to ANYTHING ELSE

[wakemewhenitsover]

131. Smart strategy.

Use the name (and policies) of their patron saint against them.

Interesting chart on historical tax rates here: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

[RKP5637]

3. We have a lot of fake democrats today. IMO they are republicans running

under the democratic name. We have them here, some of them sound more RW than the republicans.

[woo me with science]

45. That's exactly what they are: fake Democrats. The party has been purchased

by banks and corporations. These "negotiations" have been a sham from Day One, theater for our consumption.

We knew from Day One what was going to come out of this star committee:

1. Unconscionable cuts to the social safety net and vital programs
2. Protection of the tax cuts for the wealthy
3. Protection of the military industrial complex

This despite poll after poll CLEARLY showing that 70 to 80 percent of Americans ACROSS PARTY LINES support protecting the social safety net, increasing taxes on millionaires and billionaires, and reducing military spending.

They are doing exactly what we knew they would do all along, because they are thieves and Third Way corporate whores.

We no longer have a representative government. We are being ruled by one party that masquerades as two.

[wakemewhenitsover]

130. K&R. I am hoping...

...we can prove it was a big error in political judgment to piss off so many real liberals.

[dotymed]

148. +100000 you stole the words from my fingers and typed them

better than I would have.. It seems our two party system has become a one party system, based on greed.

[defendandprotect]

215. DU'ers need to pay more attention to Third Way control of Dem Party now -- !!!

YIKES!!

[kestrel91316]

50. + 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000

[Auntie Bush]

57. I need a picture for reference. How many times would that go around the earth?

[defendandprotect]

80. We need a challenger for 2012 -- how about Alan Grayson ... ?

Remember, we thought we knew what we were voting for with Obama --

and got just the opposite!

[RKP5637]

85. I would love to see a challenger for 2012 ...

I like Alan Grayson. I think it's good to have a challenger every 4 years to the status quo.

[defendandprotect]

95. That's what I hear all the time -- keep on tellin' it -- !! And let's make it real -- !!!

Hard to imagine that we're all supporting the OWS movements but we're just

ignoring Obama and his Wall Street gang?

Amazing!

[Enthusiast]

113. I'll vote for Grayson or any number

of Obama challengers. If anything is clear it is that Obama is on the other side.

[Vincardog]

160. I say real Liberals should start the movement to Draft Bernie Sanders 2012

[defendandprotect]

184. Bernie Sanders would work fine for me -- make Alan Grayson, VP ---

MAKE SURE WE HAVE PLEDGES SIGNED -- ON COMMITMENT TO ENDING WARS IMMEDIATELY --

SETTING UP MEDICARE FOR ALL IMMEDIATELY --

PUSHING FOR MOVING PELOSI AND REID OUT --

AND MOVING OTHERS WHO ARE WILLING TO FIGHT FOR THE PUBLIC INTO POSITION --


START TALKING ABOUT ENDING PRACTICE OF DEMS TAKING CORPORATE MONEY --

LET THE PEOPLE KNOW -- THEY'LL VOTE FOR YOU!


MOVE OUT THE DEM MILLIONAIRES AND MULTI-MILLIONAIRES --

TAKE CONTROL OF CONGRESS BACK FROM OIL AND COAL INDUSTRY -- !!

[sabrina 1]

197. And don't forget about who they intend to have in their cabinet.

No more people like Gates, who has never left 'office' even though he was not elected. These people are plants in our democracy. Geithner, Rubin, Paulson et al, they never go away.

I want to know who the next president intends to nominate for his cabinet, as that is who really appears to be running this country, or fronting for those who run it.

[defendandprotect]

203. +1000% -- that would be the very first pledge -- !!! :)

Amazing -- Obama should have been immediately recalled on day he pulled

Koch Bros/DLC Rahm Emmanuel onto his team -- and the rest of the Wall Streeters!!


:puke:

[woo me with science]

205. Any real Democrat could win in a landslide.

We need an Elizabeth Warren type.

[defendandprotect]

214. +1000% -- Corporate candidates have made government "dysfunctional" --- !!

With the massive numbers of OWS in the streets, there must be a website

somewhere where they are actually discussing postential challengers to

Obama?

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. It sounds awful; what are the 'loopholes' they're talking about?

It would be too much to hope for that dividends, capital gains, and income disguised as capital gains, being taxed at a lower rate than earned income, is counted as a 'loophole', I suppose.

[kentuck]

7. Mostly, subsidies for oil companies and corporate jets....

Why cannot the Democrats put the Bush tax cuts to the side and negotiate these giveaway and loopholes on a stand-alone basis. If they cannot win that argument in the public square, they should pack their shit and go the fuck home.

[defendandprotect]

96. "Congress is under the control of oil and coal industry" Al Gore/Rolling Stone-June --!!

Plus 40% of our Congress are millionaires or multi-millionaires and we're still

expecting them to act for the general good?

We all are supporting OWS movements -- but ignoring Obama and his Wall Street gang?

The Emperor has no clothes!

[Enthusiast]

114. Why cannot the Democrats?

Because they're not Democrats and that is why they are on the committee.

[newspeak]

234. actually on another thread

it could be health care deductions, charity donations, homeowners deductions.

Seeing a repug on faux snooze today, I did not like what I was hearing. Of course, they talked about the teabaggers in congress, like they are the influential super majority, but he was warning about some of their suggestions for cuts and it doesn't sound good for the plebes. He was making excuses like the deficit was the most important thing in the world, no matter who they hurt. He made mention of the sick ryan plan. See how easy it was for these immoral, greedy arseholes to create this problem after eight years of a nightmare, and now they're worried about the deficit they created. Allowing WS a free for all under little boots, predatory lending, corporate deregulation, greedy war profiteering, plus lying us into a corporate feeding frenzy war, while reducing taxes for those who are benefiting from those wars. Little boots increased the deficit with no care for the people in this country or our infrastructure. And, now I really do believe it was purposely done. It doesn't take an economic wizard to see that their actions would bring down this economy while allowing even more corporate and wealthy influence on the government. A con job at the highest level and I'd say most of the american people are the suckers.

[redqueen]

5. If they make those cuts permanent, in this political climate...

that will be the end of this party.

[kentuck]

8. It will be the end of me...

voting for their sorry asses.

[redqueen]

16. You and many, many others.

The recent CBO reports, this bank bailout business... and we know history. We know why we got the New Deal. Lost votes to the People's Party.

If they do this 'deal' (what a strange way to refer to capitulation), I predict we'll see a new People's Party.

[unionworks]

55. likewise n/t

[RKP5637]

87. At that point the D party will have totally merged with the R party IMO. n/t

[mmonk]

127. The Democratic Republican Party once existed.

[stillwaiting]

140. Still does to my mind... nt

[Auntie Bush]

61. And the beginning of an even larger more revolutionary Occupy US Party.

[YOHABLO]

72. EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN

WE NEED TO MAKE THIS MOVEMENT HUGE .. A NATIONAL STRIKE .. STOP EVERYTHING UNTIL THE PEOPLE GET THERE VOICES HEARD.

[Auntie Bush]

73. Welcome to DU!

[Jackpine Radical]

75. Welcome to DU.

I agree with your sentiment.

A small point--posts in ALL CAPS are viewed as a sort of visual shouting unless used for some super-special reason, & people may get annoyed with you for it.

[defendandprotect]

86. OWS should be able to find a candidate for us for 2012 -- ?????

Someone trustworthy should rise from this democrdatic effort --

On the other side, looks like the $250 MILLION Romney will be competiing for

the GOP throne?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. The anger will just build

And dc, both parties, will only get it after it's too late.

[defendandprotect]

81. Question is, what took so long to figure out what's been going on?

And to get angry?

Too much trust in the FDR party - long, long gone --

Twenty and more years of RW Koch Bros. funding the DLC infiltration and influence over

the party and its candidates -- :puke:

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

12. Let's cut the military in half...

and get rid of this turd of a program called Homeland Security. How about that! Is that a good start?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

17. I guess we will just have to disagree...

I think you are terribly misguided and perhaps took a wrong turn?

[wickerwoman]

18. We need strong defense.

We don't need to pay more than the next eight countries combined on that defense.

And we certainly don't need to pay more than the next eight countries combined on defense while cutting education, health care, social security, housing and infrastructure spending.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

23. Stop talking nonsense...

Nobody is going to send anyone any invoices.

[Gato Moteado]

24. how about sending the invoices to the oil companies....

....for protection services?

war is a racket, dude.

[orpupilofnature57]

33. A hostile takeover would suit me just fine.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<< thee war is a racket Dude

[marginlized]

25. We don't need to spend more than the rest of the planet

combined on our military.

[wickerwoman]

30. How very Tony Soprano of you.

So after we bomb the shit out of Iraq and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, we send them the bill? Or do we send it to all the other countries in the world "for protection" from truly terrifying global threats like Cuba, Somalia and Guatamala?

[Warren Stupidity]

32. Wait, what spending are you going to stop?

Before you get off on a tangent here. Be specific.

[defendandprotect]

83. We need strong diplomacy -- "defense" is simply an excuse for US imperialism and aggression -!!

:puke:

[Angry Dragon]

102. Every civilization that has spent 50% or more on defense

and security have become ancient civilizations
The US spends more than 50%
Soon we will exist no longer

[tomp]

133. if we would just act more friendly to the rest of the world...

...we wouldn't need near as much "defense. The dept of defense is really the dept of offense and homeland security is the dept of defense against pissed off americans who are trying to change things.

[bvar22]

157. If we just GAVE them the DOLLARS we spend on killing them,

...the end results would be much better.

[tomp]

162. very likely....

....but then a handful of MIC bigwigs would not get super wealthy.

[marginlized]

21. Ohhh, can't touch the military. NO No No

[Warren Stupidity]

29. Oh so not that spending.

You do know we have more military power than the next six nations combined, and that is unprecedented in modern history, right?

[plumbob]

68. Good, but cut the military for 3/4 as well as all of Homeland Security.

We can also reinstitute the top 92% tax rate from when I was a kid in 1952.

[defendandprotect]

82. Pentagon could live well on 10% of what they have ---- and agree that

Homeland Security -- and Patriot Act -- need to be dumped.

[Greybnk48]

14. Yes. Spending on tax cuts for fuckheads. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

27. On what? And why?

[rhett o rick]

35. Who do you think you are arguing with? But your statement alone leave out a ton.

What spending do you suggest we stop? Are you referring to spending on SS and Medicare?

[Tesha]

41. On anything in particular? (NT)

[Greybnk48]

9. Yep I'm still pissed off by this too and frustrated.

It's like they take us all for fools. But there's not much we can do about it today so try not to be too upset, if possible.

[femrap]

10. I'm constantly

pissed except when delighting in the OWS Movement.

[Fumesucker]

11. Whose idea was this "Super Committee" anyway? n/t

[kentuck]

15. A Congress that permits a "Super Committee" in the first place...

is not worth a damn.

[Fumesucker]

19. I was genuinely curious exactly where the idea popped up from..n/t

[SomethingFishy]

22. I have been looking and can't find anyone willing to take

credit for it. Can't imagine why. Every article I read just says "A Super Committee Was Created" it makes no mention of who's brilliant fucking idea this was.

[Fumesucker]

28. Your handle is amazingly appropriate for your post..

:hi:

[SomethingFishy]

172. LOL.. I get a lot of that.. especially if I have the nerve

to say something bad about Obama.

[defendandprotect]

90. It's a long term elite idea -- like the "co-president" ... ever hear of that one... ???

[defendandprotect]

88. Agree -- just more of the "panel" and "FED" idea -- moving power out of hands of Congress ....

and into back rooms and hands of elites -- !!

No elected Democrat should be cooperating with this BS -- !!

If they are, they should be targeted and dumped -- !!

[madfloridian]

38. It was part of the Budget Control Act passed this year, signed by Obama.

"As was widely reported, on August 2, the president signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011 (BCA), which authorized a $900 billion increase of the debt ceiling. This includes an immediate $400 billion increase and an additional $500 billion increase in September unless Congress has the votes to pass a Resolution of Disapproval with a veto-proof majority. In return, the statute provides for $917 billion in designated cuts in discretionary spending over a ten-year period, and it also creates a process designed to ensure another $1.2 to $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction over the same period. The BCA also requires a vote by the House and Senate on a balanced budget amendment by December 31, 2011. In the unlikely event that Congress adopts a balanced budget amendment, the debt ceiling can be raised by $1.5 trillion.

While some news outlets have treated the enactment of the BCA as the end of a process, in reality, it is supposed to represent the beginning of a process, and one that could have far-reaching implications for many business sectors, and for the larger U.S. and global economies. Financial markets are watching this process closely, and the recent S&P downgrade of the federal government’s credit rating is evidence of the importance of fiscal reform to Wall Street.

Next Steps

The BCA stipulated that a 12 member bipartisan Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction (Super Committee) be established to identify and an additional $1.2 to $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction in the form of additional cuts in spending or new revenue over the 2012 to 2021 fiscal period to be submitted to Congress for a straight up or down vote. The Super Committee members have been appointed, and comprise 6 members each from the House and Senate, 3 Democrats and 3 Republicans from each chamber. The Super Committee includes two co-chairs, one appointed by the Majority Leader of the Senate and the other by the Speaker of the House. The Super Committee is required to report its recommendations to Congress by November 23, 2011. The 12 Super Committee members include:

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) appointed Representatives Jeb Hensarling (R-TX), Dave Camp (R-MI) and Fred Upton (R-MI). Congressman Hensarling will serve as Co-Chair of the Committee.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) appointed Representatives Chris Van Hollen (D-MD), Jim Clyburn (D-SC) and Xavier Becerra (D-CA).

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) appointed Senators Max Baucus (D-MT), John Kerry (D-MA), and Patty Murray (D-WA). Senator Murray will serve as Co-Chair of the Committee.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) appointed Senators Pat Toomey (R-PA), Jon Kyl (R-AZ), and Rob Portman (R-OH)."


So both parties approved it, and it was signed by the president.

http://www.martindale.com/government-law/article_Greenberg-Traurig-LLP_1333718.htm

[defendandprotect]

84. ...and successor to Obama's "Cat Food Commission" ---

Obama looked very shabby immediately after the election and even worse after

his Koch Bros/Emmanuel selection and his Wall Street team --

Should have moved for a RECALL right then!

Anyone still trying to sell the chess game -- pink ponies or magic wands --

purists or any other alibies?

[woo me with science]

46. The Republican and Democratic wings of the Corporate Party worked together on this one...

...as they have on so much else.

[sad sally]

78. None other than Harry Reid and Mitch McConnel - with the President's blessing

You think the writers of the Constitution, those people today's politicians love to drag out as being the smartest people around, would have ever approved of such a super committee?

It bypasses the entire legislative process, it strips congress of the right to filibuster, no amendments allowed and only an up or down vote will be allowed. In other words, it makes congress useless - a dummy vote. Makes no sense, yet we said, "okay, as long as the President thinks its a way to fix the problem, we don't care that our elected officials are cut out of the process. Whatever they come up with is just fine."

Why bother going thru elections when this is the way decisions are made?

[defendandprotect]

91. +1 -- It's the epitome of fascism -- and major goal of the elites -- !!

[orpupilofnature57]

26. Continuity is killing us.

Cooperating with people hell bent on his failure is futile and devastating to human beings of the 99% kind.

[lunatica]

31. I have a feeling the Supercommittee isn't going anywhere

It's been nothing more than the tactic of kicking the can down the road. They 'leak' these rumors to test the waters. They aren't doing a damn thing to fix anything. It's political theater. They'll end up saying it's a hung jury.

[gratuitous]

34. And when this Grand Bargain is struck . . .

And all these "loopholes" are closed, the lobbyists will be back next year on Capitol Hill, working doubly hard to open those loopholes back up. Can you afford a team of lobbyists to get back some piddly annual tax break? No? Well, then, guess who will be sending their team of lobbyists out to get back not just the piddly tax breaks, but the frickin' humongous ones that completely offset any tax liability?

Yeah, this isn't hope or change I can believe in.

[Fridays Child]

36. Anyone who benefits from Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy...

...ought to be recused from that panel and from voting on the matter, generally.

[They_Live]

54. Excellent point

and a practice that should be much more common in Washington.

[Cleita]

37. Looks like it's time to occupy the super committee.

It might make them notice. The environmentalists were able to stop the Keystone oil pipe line between Canada and the gulf. Maybe poor people can make the committee see the light about the Bush tax cuts.

[woo me with science]

48. We need a million seniors massing in front of the White House and Congress.

SHAME them into stopping this crap.

[TheKentuckian]

39. We went from political party to pied piper con job to get us to fund and support

Our own ideological destruction and the advancement of our opposition.

[RainDog]

40. they don't just represent their conservative districts when they're negotiating for the party

and they shouldn't just represent that narrow, failed trickle down economic creationism view of how to deal with America's economic life.

[orpupilofnature57]

42. We have to start exposing Their agendas and priorities.

[defendandprotect]

92. Better all start paying more attention to the Third Way which now controls the Dem Party -- !!!

C-span -- three weeks ago --

Jonathan Cowan, Pres. Third Way -- made clear that the sdtance/policy of the Third

Way is that "THE BASE OF THE PARTY IS TO BE IGNROED' --


Further that ....

"ALL POPULISM AND POPULIST DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATES ARE THE EQUIVALENT OF KARL ROVE

PROPAGANDA OF EXTREMISM" --


When you decode that, what Cowan is saying is that New Deal/FDR are Karl Rove extremism!!

[Enthusiast]

116. I watched that asshole on C-Span.

The only answer to our dilemma is a massive nationwide OWS action. With numbers like the following.

[defendandprotect]

163. Agree -- and everyone needs to be wearing a 99% button every day --- Stand up together!!

[MichiganVote]

43. Might as well throw in the towel if this shit is declared permanent.

[woo me with science]

47. Might as well throw out the thieves.

All of them.

[Lorien]

49. Amen. Make 2012 the year of the American Spring. nt

[defendandprotect]

93. Agree -- we should begin by finding a challenger to Obama and toss him and his Wall St. gang out --!

Amazing -- no one questions Obama Wall Street team while we have OWS going on and

everyone supports it?


:eyes:

[dionysus]

97. .

:rofl:

[MichiganVote]

53. Tis true

[stevedeshazer]

44. +1

Right on.

[valerief]

51. They're Democrats for the 1%, not Democrats for the 99%. That means they're shit to us. nt

[hay rick]

62. What she said. nt

[abelenkpe]

52. An animal rights group has been protesting at the home of a guy who owns an animal testing facility

not far from our apartment. Perhaps we should protest on the lawns of the super commiytee to make sure they keep the people's interests in mind?

[tcaudilllg]

56. We need to run against these people, period.

[fascisthunter]

59. .

exactly

[fascisthunter]

58. Thank Gawd a Few Here Keep Things Real

I'm tired of the delusions we have to live with. It's time for Real Change and OWS is a part of that. Enough of the BS.

[robinlynne]

60. right you are. Don't forget Obama saying "there will never be another extension of the Bush tax cuts

on my watch again", right after he signed the renewal.....

[Angry Dragon]

103. Perhaps in his mind permanent is not an extention

or he suffers from memory loss

[Enthusiast]

117. Obama's central campaign theme was ending the Bush tax cuts.

Why would anyone believe anything Obama says?

[Utopian Leftist]

63. Russ Feingold's group,

Progressives United has been putting pressure on the Thtuper Committee over various issues. Last week it was over their putting Medicare on the block. His petition listed these demands:

1. Ensure millionaires, billionaires, and big corporations pay their fair share of debt reduction,
2. No cuts to Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid benefits,
3. No giveaways to corporate interests,
4. Or no deal.

Sign up with them to have your voice counted on this issue.

[Enthusiast]

118. I sign all their petitions and many others.

The White House and congress must receive millions of these petitions. They don't care what we want. They could care less.

Most Americans want medicare for all. Most Americans want to tax millionaires. Most Americans want out of Afghanistan. What are the chances of it happening? ZERO!

Primary Obama!

[sendero]

64. Oh wait..

... this will all make a lot more sense to you once you realize and accept that the Democrats (most of them anyway) work for the same oligarchs that the Repubs do.

There is NO OTHER EXPLANATION for their actions.

[Major Hogwash]

66. Excuse me . . .

But, this never happened.
You may continue.

[gateley]

65. Let's e-mail them all and call their offices non-stop --

I always say "although I'm not a constituent I'm moving to XXX in two months and will be in your district (I've learned to have info ready because sometimes the office staff solicits that info) and if XXXX does XXXX, I will not only NOT support him/her during the next election, I will contribute generously to his/her opponent.

I've rarely had to leave that message w/my own reps as they're really pretty good, but this time I'll be calling my Senator Patty Murray's office.

This is unforgivable.

[eridani]

108. All the info you need to do this is right here, including local office numbers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x34938

[OwnedByFerrets]

67. I agree, but what do we do to stop it?

[Enthusiast]

119. I won't say it.

[customerserviceguy]

69. I understand how you feel

I was pissed that there was a two year extension of the Bush tax cuts in exchange for only a one year extension of unemployment extended benefits. The latter is about to expire, and I hate to think what President Obama will have to agree to for another extension.

I've maintained all along that this supercommittee was a farce, and would never come up with something that could be approved even by one house of Congress. Now, it looks like we're going to have two "minority reports", one from our side, one from theirs, and all it will be is a blame game for the election. It was crafty of the Rethuglicans to make sure that the cuts to military spending don't start until 2013, they cagily think they're going to have full control at that point, and will let the Democratic Party take the blame for the benefit cuts, which will not be restored.

We've been outplayed.

[TheKentuckian]

100. I have very little faith that we've been outplayed as much as sold out.

No way they are so stupid as to not foresee these passes. People have screamed, begged, pleaded, petitioned, and every possible means of expression that no way, no how would these games work for the people.

The game is rigged. There is almost no more certain knowledge of a screwing coming in modern day politics than "bipartisan" legislation.

[customerserviceguy]

145. It's gotta be a combination

Hopefully the outplayed ones will wise up, I have no hope for any improvement from those who sold us out. All we can hope to do is replace them.

[unkachuck]

70. K&R...."...I sure as hell will not vote for their sorry asses...."....n/t

[yellerpup]

71. Fuck me running.

Exactly.

[moondust]

74. OWS should put together a voting guide.

Rating politicians on their voting records in support of the 99%. (Gonna be ugly.)

[defendandprotect]

94. OWS should also begin to challenge the Obama/Wall St. Gang for 2012 -- !!!

What in the hell kind of sense does it make to fight Wall Street and ignore

Obama's Wall St. gang?

Who are we kidding?

Anyone still have any faith or trust in Obama?

[Plucketeer]

147. We have ZERO faith in Obama to do what's right...

.... oh, wait! He usually DOES do what's "Right", as in what the Right wants. He NEEDS a challenger, and WE NEED a president who stands up for those who put him in office.

[Enthusiast]

121. Plus one. That would be one ugly voting guide.

Even the "good" Democrats often vote wrong. And nearly every Republican votes wrong every single time. Just look at this nation, it has nearly been destroyed. "Oh but they played basketball on an aircraft carrier."

[Javaman]

76. did you honestly believe that they were selected for that bullshit committee

because of the belief that they would help us?

we the people were never considered.

[Enthusiast]

122. Exactly. Max Baucus? Are you kidding me?

After the HCR fiasco. I guess we aren't supposed to notice.

[Zorra]

77. Better get used to it in case OWS doesn't succeed.

Because if OWS doesn't succeed, this is as good as it will ever get.

We'll never, ever be able to vote out Wall St. Dems/Pubs unless OWS forces a constitutional amendment that takes all the bribe money out of government and campaigns, and ends corporate personhood.

It is what it is. For now.

[Enthusiast]

123. You are dead on.

OWS is the only hope.

[defendandprotect]

79. "A difficult time" ... we couldn't be more betrayed by our own party -- !!

the Democrats on the "Super Committee" talking about making a deal with the Repubs by making the Bush taxcuts permanent

Find a challenger for 2012 -- it's no where too late -- who's going to vote for

more of tis betrayal -- leave alone finance it??!!!


The Democratic Party is now undere the control of the Third Way -- and Jonathan Cowan,

President of the Third Way has made the stonewalling clear --

i.e., the stance/policy of the Third Way is that 'THE BASE OF THE PARTY IS TO BE IGNORED' --

and further that --

'ALL POPULISM AND POPULIST DISCUSSION AND DEBATE IS THE EQUIVALENT OF KARL ROVE PROPAGANDA

OF EXTREMISM' --


In other words, to people who now control the Dem Party are saying FDR/New Deal is Karl

Rove extremism -- !!


And that the people who make up the party and who support it are to be IGNORED!!



Who's voting for mroe of this -- ???

[RiverStone]

89. The lines between Dems & rethugs is blurred by corporate dollars

There should be NO negotiating, but that's what we say on DU.

We would not capitulate, but of course --- we are true progressives that walk the talk.

It's beyond frustrating.

[On the Road]

98. The Super Committee is Supposed to LOWER the Deficit

If they lower taxes permanently, that is a fundamental repudiation of their mission.

[stillwaiting]

146. Seems like the Super Committee's mission is to escalate the 3-4 decades assault on the 99%

I sometimes feel like I'm in the middle of a zombie film with the overwhelming sense of dread I've periodically felt over the past three years. On the other hand, I have felt very, very hopeful with the OWS movement's building momentum.

If the Democrats (including Obama) do what I believe they are going to do I don't think we'll take it too much longer.

Unfortunately, that means it's probably going to get ugly. They are leaving us very little choice. Surely they know what's going to come. I sometimes think that perhaps they want "it" to come. That their future vision for our country is radically different and the only way they can implement it is for us to do what history clearly indicates we will be doing sometime soon. They seem to feel invincible, and they have all of these new toys that we've funded with our tax dollars. THAT is where the dread sets in and when I dig deep to overcome it.

It's a roller coaster of all kinds of emotions that's for sure.

[russspeakeasy]

99. Fish and political partys rot from the head.

[Angry Dragon]

101. Sell your soul to the company store

[autorank]

104. Amen Brother!

[GarH]

105. re neo-Democrats

I recently filled out my DNC survey from Pelosi and in the section for contributions I wrote in "none of my money will be going to Blue Dog Democrats. I will make individual contributions to progressive Democrats."

[caseymoz]

106. The idea was that the automatic cuts were supposed to pressure the dems.

As far as I'm concerned, if the automatic cuts go into effect, then vote to put the budget for the programs right back where it was.

[lib2DaBone]

107. Max Baucus... Corporate Whore.

Bet any money that Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson are right there with Max.. same shit different day. Nothning changes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

109. Can you say... "Term Limits"?

[reACTIONary]

110. If election 2012 is more positive than election 2010, then...

...the results will be better than they were after 2010. You can't win policy without winning elections. And you aren't going to win elections by rooting for a challenger.

[cantbeserious]

111. Democrats In Name Only - DINO - We've Learned This Lesson Already

eom

[Enthusiast]

112. Tell your President. He was the one

that participated in the debt crisis theater.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

115. K&R. People do seem to be waking up to...

...the false left-right paradigm -- an important first step for real change.

[KoKo]

142. Well....that says it all. This is what we are faced with. Shouldn't have been this way..

Especially as hard as so many worked to expose the corruption during the Bush years. Now, that's all been shut down. Look at how much fewer progressive blogs there are supporting change than there were during Bush years.

We know what happened. Shut down...by cut off funding from our own "democrats."

[BigBearJohn]

120. Might as well be Kabuki theater

[Enthusiast]

125. It is.

[KoKo]

143. definitely. And deceit...obfuscation...wear people down and they will give up.

[melm00se]

124. i had a teacher in high school

state that it's lawyers who write the laws and they always embedded loopholes in the laws so when they return to private practice they can get their clients off.

[The Wizard]

126. Defense contractors make bigger bribes

than Social Security recipients.

[madokie]

128. Yes sir you are so right

[bowens43]

129. No surprise here....

you can bet that the Dems will offering up social security and medicare too.


tell me again why I should go to the polls. What is the difference between dems and cons?

[sofa king]

132. You should see it for what it is.

It's the best hedged-bet ever. The Super-Committee is designed to either exceed the enormous concessions the Republicans already made to the Dems in Congress and the President, or have its decisions vetoed so that those prior concessions--including an automatic $500 billion recission over ten years from the Department of Defense, in an election year--automatically become law.

So you can ease your mind somewhat by thinking of it like this: the President isn't going to sign any extension of the tax cuts, because that's the issue he's going to waltz to reelection on next year. Individual Dems on the SComm may have their own reasons for voting one way or another, and that's fine, because the system was built with the expectation that the Republicans would delay, stonewall, and deal disingenuously.

When they do, the Dems get to pick up cheap political points, and then kill all the GOP's hard work while gathering valuable insight about their legislative aspirations for next year, and which corporations have the most lobbying sway over the Republicans.

We've already won. So you should be watching this maneuvering with amusement, to see how vigorously the Republicans are squirming underfoot, still unaware of the futility of their usual bad-faith methods.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

134. in the clutches of the corporate masters

[RaleighNCDUer]

135. I don't get it. How can you be so upset

about something so predictable?

[Faygo Kid]

136. We're going to be sold out. Again. Gut SS, Medicare & Medicaid, tax cuts for the rich, and . . .

. . . increase revenues by reducing or eliminating middle class deductions, like the home mortgage deduction.

Both parties are in thrall to big money and K Street.

[Faux pas]

137. Repeating what I just said in another thread, how about a

nationwide tax strike? They don't pay, we don't pay. Can they really imprison all of the 99%? I don't think so.

[adigal]

211. I like this idea - after seeing the 60 Minutes story

last night on Congresspeople participating in insider trading, my cousin, a Republican, is seeing the light of the OWS movement. People are getting it.

[socialindependocrat]

138. If we are going to be deadlocked for the next year, so be it!

Let's just push for the tax hikes ad if the GOP wants to block any kind of
revenue increase then we'll have our democratic majority in 2012 and we can
do whatever we want.

Just write this period off as "the dark ages" and start things rolling in 2012.

I am so amused to see the writings of the Repubs saying what a great person
Herman Cain is and how they want to see a Paul/Gingrich ticket because they
would be "unstoppable".

ARE THESE PEOPLE NUTS? DO THEY EVEN LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET?

There is no Repub candidate that can win in 2012.
They couldn't convince the Gov. of Jersey to run
so now they are trying to convince each other that
they have a chance in 2012.

I cringe when I think of Herman Cane going to the Middle East and saying
"I am another son of a different mother - brother!"
I'm sure they'll wonder if we're all on drugs over here!!!

At least if Newt got in the Tiffany's stock would go up.

It's laughable to see grown people acting like this.
Maybe it's what people do when they have no hope...

[RandiFan1290]

141. ...and the march goes on

[WVRICK13]

139. We Need To Get Their Attention

If there was a massive move of Democrat voters to Independent they would take notice. I am changing my registration Monday. I urge you all to do the same thing. We need a national movement with both parties changing to Independent. I know Republicans (not the fake ones, but the old world ones) who would join in. A lot of them aren't happy with their party either.

[blindpig]

144. Yes, they do not belong to the same party as you.

They are the Democratic Party, they control all aspects of it, and they ain't letting go. The party which you belong to is a ghost of history, an anachronism.

The dream becomes a nightmare.

[tavalon]

149. Damn, Washington is so fucking tone deaf.

[closeupready]

150. I saw an interesting interview this morning - "what are angry dems going to do?" "Not vote"

was the reply from the political analyst with regard to New Jersey Democrats who are angry with the lack of leadership from Obama. I do think many Democrats are going to sit out in 2012 and stay home. Makes a certain sense when you consider how many establishment Democrats and activists have spent so much time arguing over the last three years that Obama is actually impotent and that Congress holds all the cards.

K&R

[newspeak]

168. yeah, well the elite WANT YOU TO STAY HOME

enough disaffected voters and they can just do away with voting all together. The solution is to either take back the democratic party (which may be hard feat taking it away from the Third way or DLC) or create a populist party. Give people something to vote for. Vote for pro-labor democrats if you can, but please don't stay home. They really don't give a shite if you stay home, as long as the status quo for the elite is maintained. Anyone will do as long as they toe the line to them. And those democrats who have already sold their soul to big business, if they lose, already have a cushy inside for those they have served. So, it's a win-win to some of them.

[dash_bannon]

151. Be the Change

I totally get your anger.

I'll ask you the same question I ask myself, "what can I do to change it?"

You can be angry or you can use that anger to take action to change the system.

As Ghandi said, "be the change you want to see in the world."

[deutsey]

152. Same as it ever was, unfortunately

All the more reason to keep occupying...

[hulka38]

153. Nobody is this inept. Nobody. It's obviously being done on purpose.

You're a fool if you believe otherwise.

[defendandprotect]

169. Agree -- and it was obvious immediately after election -- in fact,

from earlier writings by Obama -- Time for Change posted, btw -- we should have

known!


And we've now wasted another 4 years with Obama moving us even further to the right --

the darkness of fascist control over government couldn't be clearer.


"Congress is controlled by the oil and coal industries" -- Al Gore/Rolling Stone-June

[newspeak]

235. yes, I actually think the whole economic meltdown was

on purpose. I mean if your going to start two wars, give mega bucks to war profiteering corporations (with little accountability of our money), actually promoting predatory lending by your greedy friends, and look what happened to enron with their creative accounting? And while your fueling your leech friends with our money, you allow one of the greatest tax cuts. Now we have repugs who want total deregulation, including the bill against creative accounting. Yes, you'd have to be totally clueless not to know that the whole thing was a set up from the get go.

[sarcasmo]

154. This country has need a labor party for a long time.

[Moostache]

155. Democratic Party lies cold and stiff on Progressive issues.

Hear, hear to the calls for a New party to actually represent the interests of the people instead of the money.

All of this debt-reduction nonsense makes my soul hurt.

[midnight]

156. The obvious is not tolerable any longer. They are making us debt ridden while they enjoy

the best health care, food and education...

[orbitalman]

158. Me too...

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[alfredo]

159. You must remember that the Reps were holding 2 million

unemployed Americans hostage. If Obama had not agreed to the two year extension, the extension of unemployment would have been filibustered (we didn't have enough votes to overcome the filibuster). 2 million Americans would have lost unemployment in the dead of winter.

The Republicans wanted the tax cuts permanent, but settled for a two year extension. They will push for making them permanent, and will try to blackmail us again, but I don't think the country will be in the mood for that.

[defendandprotect]

164. Rather, looks more like Obama held the nation hostage for the benefit of elites -- !!

If Obama/Democrats wanted to speak for the impoverished, those on Food Stamps --

the unemployed -- those without MEDICAL CARE -- the sufferign in our nation --

they could ALL be doing it every day rather than FUND RAISING!!


OWS is already in the streets -- wouldn't take anything much to bring an end to

the GOP -- which was clear in 2000 before Obama resurrected them from the ashes!!


Where are Dems/Obama working for anyone but elites -- or filling their own campaign

chests with corporate money?



:puke:

[alfredo]

167. What would you have done in his situation?

Remember he was only ending the tax cuts for those making over $250,000.

[defendandprotect]

170. My post covered what Obama/Dems should be doing -- but Obama renewed $120 BILLION in tax cuts and ..

and joined the GOP in cries of a "debt crisis" -- :rofl:


As to what Obama should have done ...

I'll repeat for you what I said in my prior post -- which I presume you didn't read ....


If Obama/Democrats wanted to speak for the impoverished, those on Food Stamps --

the unemployed -- those without MEDICAL CARE -- the sufferign in our nation --

they could ALL be doing it every day rather than FUND RAISING!!


OWS is already in the streets -- wouldn't take anything much to bring an end to

the GOP -- which was clear in 2000 before Obama resurrected them from the ashes!!


Where are Dems/Obama working for anyone but elites -- or filling their own campaign

chests with corporate money?


As you can see from the OWS crowds in the streets, wouldn't have take but 5 minutes

to bury the GOP. Still could be done, but Obama/Dems are not working for the general

welfare -- they are working for welfare of corporate/elites.

[alfredo]

178. But who was seen as the one's pushing the debt crisis, it

wasn't Obama.

Fund raising is a necessary evil right now. Obama has been able to mix fund raising with public events. The voting public isn't blaming Obama for his public appearances/fundraising, they see that the Reps won't allow any action on our economy.

Ending the control of the elites is up to us. Our lawmakers are a mixture of villains and victims of the system. We have to give them enough political cover (force their hand) to make the changes needed to democratize the system. Right now one party can't unilaterally stop taking corporate money. We know the Republicans won't give up their sugar daddies, so we have to destroy them as a viable party.

As long as the GOP is a viable party, reform won't happen. The Dems are far from perfect, but they are a lot better than the GOP. Democrats do not have the authoritarian core that you see with the Reps. Read John Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" and you will see where reform can only come through the Democratic Party.

We have to keep up and increase the pressure. If OWS survives the winter, next summer will be earth shaking. Obama and the Dems will have to throw their lot in with OWS.

[defendandprotect]

183. Obama played the game -- "good cop" -- "bad cop" -- ROFL

What does it take for you to actually understand what's going on?

GOP wouldn't exist except for Obama -- !!


Obama is s selling himself over and again to elites/corporations -- how exactly does

that benefit you? You want more of the corporate-agenda Obama has fed you over the

last three years - trampling MEDICARE4ALL in order to "preserve the private H/C

system" for Big Pharma and the private h/c industry he made back room deals with?


"Our party can't stop taking corporate money right now?" - Really? :rofl:

That's simply more of "We had to burn the village to save it!" -- :rofl:


Imagine what would happen if Obama and the Dems announced to the public that they would

no longer take elite/corproate money -- there'd be a landslide vote for them!


And throw the "lesser evil" cards away with the "perfect" party/president cards --

simply undermines anything else you have to say.


Try to understand this -- Obama is the very opposite of OWS --

Repeat this to yourself -- "OWS is anti-Wall Street" -- "Obama has a Wall Street team"

"Obama is a Wall Street president" --

See if you can make some sense of that for yourself.

[alfredo]

187. Who has prevented any meaningful reform of campaign financing?

In a post Citizen's United, politicians HAVE to accept corporate bribes. Until we can change the rules, we can't force one candidate or party to not to and expect them to be able to compete. It is the system that corrupts, and we have to Force a change. Until we end legal bribes, Wall St, Big oil, Big Healthcare calls the shots.

If politicians didn't need the money, they wouldn't have to suck up to Wall st. That includes Obama. How many politicians would love to not have to spend much of their work day begging for money? That is they way it is from City council to the president. Until we force a change in the system, we can't criticize a person working in the system for playing by the rules of the system.

I was under no allusions of Obama being anything other than what he is. Too many expected him to be what they hoped he would be. He's a pragmatic centrist, and I can live with that. I picked him because I felt we'd stand a better chance at being treated justly, and I think he has not been a total disappointment.

As far as his relationship with OWS. He should not align himself too closely with the movement. OWS does not want close ties to any party or entity.


Anyway, we have to lead, and if we do, Obama and others will have little choice but to follow. Ideologues like McConnell or Romney won't, Obama the pragmatist will.

[defendandprotect]

192. And will Dems taking as much money as the GOP takes cure the system ... or will it make it worse?

You're just tossing around one "lesser evil" after another.

Are you truly saying that if Obama/Dems right now said that they'd give back every

corporate dime and not take any corporate money, it wouldn't impress you? Wow.

That would be about the only thing that would get me to vote for Obama -- a complete

turn around.

Think about this -- there are two sides to the Citizens United coin -- one side is

corporate money ---

the other side is the CORRUPT CANDIDATES AND ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO SELL THEMSELVES TO

CORPORATIONS!

And this kind of thinking ---

we can't criticize a person working in the system for playing by the rules of the system

is about as unrealistic as you can get! :rofl:


Obama is not a "centrist." We have a right wing party and a radical right wing party.

If Obama is in the middle of that -- he's way to the far right. Obama is a corporate president.


And this is either totally naive ....

As far as his relationship with OWS. He should not align himself too closely with the movement. OWS does not want close ties to any party or entity.

or disingenuous. Obama is Wall Streets -- OWS is opposed to Wall Street.

How many years have you been avoiding looking at Obama and the people he has surrounded himself

with?


"Pragmatist" -- ? ROFL


Bye --

[alfredo]

198. I have no allusions about Obama, I knew what he was

from his first votes in the Senate.

I also know that DC can't be reformed from the inside, it has to be us who force the change. Punishing one politician will do nothing but put an even more unacceptable person in the oval office. We have to change the game.


BTW, which Republican are you supporting for president?

[defendandprotect]

202. Most here voted for Obama NOT knowing who he he really was -- corporate - !!

You're saying you KNEW and voted for him anyway?

Certainly Obama/Dems making a move to STOP selling themselves to elites/corporates

would be a big first step!

And, it's not like they don't get something for selling themselves -- certainly they

must at least get flowers? :evilgrin:

How many of them have come out of the White House poor?

[alfredo]

208. I was not going to vote for McCain, and I wasn't going to not vote.

I knew I wouldn't get exactly what I wanted in a president, but I felt he had an ethical core, and the ability to learn quickly.

I knew Clinton was a moderate, but I voted for him twice.

I am still waiting for the perfect candidate. Hopefully public financing will winnow out some of the greed-heads, corporate shills.

[defendandprotect]

213. Voting for the "lesser evil" only moves party and Congress further to the right ...

which is, indeed, what happened with Obama -- way, way to the right!

Pretty much overturning New Deal and Medicare now --!!


Granted, during Clinton era many didn't know about RW Koch Bros./DLC

influence over the party and its candidates. But that's completely

clear now -- as is the control of the party by the Third Way now.


There are no "perefect" candidates -- there are no "chess games" or

"magic wands" -- no one is a "purist" looking for perfection --

THERE IS ONLY ELITE/CORPORATE MONEY LOOKING TO BUY CANDIDATES --

AND CANDIDATES WHO ARE CORRUPT ENOUGH TO SELL THEMSELVES TO THEM.

ONE COIN/TWO SIDES.

[alfredo]

216. Until we change the system, that's our choices.

[defendandprotect]

217. Moving the party and Congress further to the right isn't a "choice" --

nor should it be a legitimate consideration for anyone.

No one complains about our corporate president and his corporate team and then

goes and votes for the RW --

neither does one understand the true nature of this administration and then vote

for it -- unless they want more of the same.

We need a challenger for 2012 -- the sooner the better -- anyone will do.

We have tons of democrats who aren't pre-owned and pre-bribed by elites/corporations.

Put any of them up -- a word of mouth campaign -- "I don't take money from corporations/

elites" -- and let's go!

[alfredo]

218. Still, that person will be inside a system they don't have the power to change.

We, the people have to force a change. Changing the faces without changing the system is treating the symptom.

[defendandprotect]

219. Only if the will of the people continues to be ignored -- as it is now!

And that is the policy/stance of the Third Way which now controls the party -- !!

[alfredo]

220. That's where we FORCE a change

[defendandprotect]

222. Really ... you're going to force Third Way to give up control over partry.. or maybe undo

the twenty and more years of damage that Koch Bros. DLC did to the party?

Unfortunately, Obama is third way --

[alfredo]

223. Let the chips fall where they may.

[alfredo]

224. Asking doesn't work. We'll see where Obama goes when

the chips are down.

[defendandprotect]

225. The only "chips" Obama is worried about is those falling into his campaign chest... from elites...

[alfredo]

226. So what is your remedy?

[defendandprotect]

228. A new candidate for 2012 -- preferably Bernie Sanders -- but Alan Grayson will do ....

and we need to get serious about that --

We need two candidates who are strongly anti-war --

Our Treasury has been bankrupted by war and we have been morally bankrupted by it --

We need two candidates who will pledge to move to MEDICARE 4 ALL --

both would begin to put America back on her feet --


We also need to bury capitalism -- uninvent the dollar bill --

Stop using credit cards -- we go out every day and they sit back waiting for the money

to roll in -- it adds substantial amounts to the costs of doing business for small business

owners and for us!


That would all be a start -- !!


OWS is a strong signal that the two party system is over -- so is capitalism.

[alfredo]

229. A president has little power. We have to change the 538 in congress

[defendandprotect]

230. Obama had enough power to trample MEDICARE4ALL .....

and keep wars going thru '09, '10, '11 -- !!


Obama made back room deals with Big Pharma and private h/c industry ---

and then Rahm "crowed" about how they had "PRESERVED THE PRIVATE H/C INDUSTRY" -- !!!


:puke:

[alfredo]

231. Obama did what he said in Iraq, and is in the process of withdrawing from

Afghanistan. One of my friend's son is on his way to Afghanistan to help with the phase out.

Obama got what he could get with the healthcare law. The GOP wanted to kill the whole thing, and nearly did. Remember FDR got some of what he wanted when he created SS. It took decades to build the strong program we see now.

BTW, the healthcare law has saved my family nearly $2 thousand this year.

[defendandprotect]

232. Obama made back room deals with Big Phara and private H/C industry ... to preserve status quo ....

no negotiation with Big Pharma on prices --

No single payer --

Obama and Rahm worked to 'PRESERVE THE P R I V A T E HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY"

If you want to see Rahm's own words on that -- let me know!


Obama TRAMPLED single-payer -- Baucus did what he was told, but he was shocked!


Pelosi morning after '08 -- on video -- "Democrats were elected to end the war!"


Democrats were elected to end the Bush wars --

Pelosi and Dems unfortunately continued to finance Bush wars --


Pelosi explained Obama to us later on saying, "Obama was for a lot of things when

he was campaigning -- which he is no longer for" -- !!


We need a challenger to Obama for 2012 --

4 more years of this will be disastrous -- the country can't afford it -- too many

suffering citizens and economy based on theft by the rich.

[alfredo]

233. In that negotiation, big pharma saw the donut hole closed

and the ability for our government to negotiate on prices.

[defendandprotect]

236. Obama tramples single payer and preserves PRIVATE H/C industry .... and you offer "donut hole" - ???

ROFL

Prescription Drug Donut Hole: ‘Sweetheart Deal’ for Big ...
Phil Feaster, a retired truck driver from Fort Washington, Md., is one of more than 24 million seniors in Medicare’s prescription drug program, the program that is ...
blog.aflcio.org/...donut-hole-sweetheart-deal-for-big-pharma

Donut-hole discounts won't gouge Big Pharma - FiercePharma
The Medicare discounts drugmakers negotiated with the White House and Senate aren't going to take much of a bite out of Big Pharma. As Bloomberg reports, pharma ...
www.fiercepharma.com/.../donut-hole...big-pharma/2010-10-01 - Cached

Big Pharma’s Phony “Gift” to Seniors | Unsilent Generation
Big Pharma’s proposal to help old people get their meds by giving them a discount when they fall into the ”donut hole” in Medicare Part D coverage, is just what ...
unsilentgeneration.com/2009/06/23/big-pharmas-phony-drug... - Cached

Putting the Dough in the Donut Hole: Big Pharma Hits the ...
Putting the Dough in the Donut Hole: Big Pharma Hits the Sweet Spot in the Reform Debate on The RPM Report, Jun-01-2009
sis.windhover.com/buy/abstract.php?id=2009500060 - Cached



We need MEDICARE4 ALL -- and we need a challenger to Obama in 2012 --


Think the "donut hole" pretty much shows you want to game play --


Bye !!

[alfredo]

238. He never called for single payer. He wanted the public option.

The donut hole was a big issue for retirees. The inability of the government to bargain over drug prices was a big issue for retirees.

We were lucky to get what we got. We had to use some fancy tricks in the Senate to get what little we got passed.

Remember, Obama doesn't have a vote. He can't do much without the consent of congress.

We do have something to build on. As it is now, there's some good things, but there's a lot of work to do to build a fair system.

In politics you never get exactly what you want. That's the nature of the beast. I wanted single payer, I wanted the insurance and pharma CEO's dragged out of their mansions and beaten to a pulp, but you can't always get what you want.

[defendandprotect]

239. The big issue for us all is MEDICARE4ALL....Obama trampled it --

And Medicare still cannot bargain over drug prices -- thanks to Obama!

You may feel lucky to have Obama, but take a look in the streets and ask yourself

if you're missing something!

Obama is ignoring the will of the people -- while deal making with GOP extremists and

their corporations.

So you wanted all of those things, as well -- but you just "can't always get what you want."

ROFL


This is corruption we're talking about -- not a pizza order --

Voting for more of it will get you more ocrruption.

[alfredo]

240. Voting in a new president won't do shit until we change campaign

financing. The president can't do shit without a congress that is willing to work with him. We have one party that is determined to stop any progress. He has tried to work with them, and has been rebuffed. The Medicare drug pricing law was a Bush era law. Obama had nothing to do with making it illegal to bargain. Obama couldn't have made any change to that law without congress. He doesn't have a vote.

[defendandprotect]

241. Voting in Obama again "won't do shit" because we've seen his CHANGE! Remember????

Baloney --

The GOP was finished after '08 -- and Obama resurrected them from the ashes.

Bipartisanship is just another way of saying one party rule.

And it's game playing by Obama and the GOP -- together.

Americans didn't vote for a Dem president who would cave to GOP -- but that's what

the got -- over and over again. No compromise too big for Obama to make with GOP!


Again -- Obama made back room deals with Big Pharma -- in betrayal of the American public.

In fact, the entire Dem Party cooperated in shoving Byron Dorgan around when he tried to

move the Medicare negotiation bill! Pretty much why he decided to leave Congress, imo.

Obama worked with Rahm Emmanuel and Big Pharma and the private H/C industry to PRESERVE

THE PRIVATE H/C INDUSTRY AND THEIR PROFITS. See the NY Times reports --

See Rahm Emmanuel's own report on this and "why business should be GRATEFUL to Obam" -- !!



:puke:

[alfredo]

242. It's not the players, it's the game. We have to change the

rules of the game.

[defendandprotect]

243. Obama took tons of $$ from h/c industry -- it is the players ...!!

Corporte $$ goes no where in buying anyone -- unless people like Obama are willing

to seel themselves.

[alfredo]

244. The game is money for media buys, and ground game. We

can't make one candidate do without money to run his campaign, and not his opponents. The rules for all have to change, can't you understand that?

I think we are running in circles, and have taken this subject as far as we can. I won't respond further.

[defendandprotect]

245. You're saying if Obama and Dems swore off corporate money you wouldn't vote for them?

Wow --

[alfredo]

246. I would vote for them, but I also know they will be steamrolled

by corporate money dominating the airwaves. 90% of the winners spent more than their opponents according to MSNBC. You could have the best candidate with the best message, but if he can't get his message out, can't fund a ground game, he will probably lose. Until we force a change, we can't expect candidates to cripple their own campaigns.

This is my last reply. Ideology needs to be balanced with cold reality.

[defendandprotect]

247. . . . but YOU would vote for them -- and so would we all -- it would be like Jesus vs Satan -- !!

[alfredo]

248. True. Being an Atheist I can't support the GOP.

[LiberalLovinLug]

165. Sometimes you have to lose a battle

in order to win the war.

I don't want to sound callous but Obama could have stood his ground on the Bush Tax Cuts but also taken the bully pulpit, (like he could have done so so many times) and thoroughly reamed out the Rethugs and exposed them for what they are. He had the ability to eloquently explain the need for social safety nets in a modern capitalistic society and informed the public that it is the Republicans who are behaving like greedy little children. This would have worked for the public option on health insurance as well as the extensions on the Bush Tax Cuts. Instead he treated and continues to treat them like equal and honorable colleagues who "all want the same thing but just have different views on getting there", when the Rethugs only goal is defeating Obama and the Dems at every opportunity and grabbing more power again no matter how much it damages the country.

Obama comes across as looking like a fool. We know he is not that stupid, so the only other explanation is that he actually does want what the Republicans want (or rather what the same donors and lobbyists want) but he's got to put on a "good cop" front.

[alfredo]

173. The situation was fully explained. The Reps were labelled

"hostage takers." Since then he has been building up a narrative bit by bit.

His slow approach has been successful in painting the Reps as obstructionist. It's maddening, but he is looking long term. The more reasonable he seems, the worse the Republicans look. A huge defeat for the Reps is what we want, and maybe that's what we will get.

Remember how frustrating it was watching Clinton? His triangulation was annoying, but it was driving the Reps crazy. They complained that Clinton was stealing their issues. The only ground left for them was further right.

Remember, Obama is not, and never was a Liberal. He's always been a moderate. From there he can push the GOP further right. The more they move right, the smaller their base. Obama has taken away the GOP's strong suits: defense and the economy. All that is left for them is social issues, and even that is not as big an issue as before.

Don't get caught up on the daily battles, winning the war is the goal.

[defendandprotect]

175. Obama resurrected the GOP from the ashes after 2008 -- Bipartisanship is one party rule -- !!

How is it that you can't see the amazing damage done by Obama?

You think the "chess game" is still going on -- ?


:eyes:

[alfredo]

179. Yes it is. Nov 8th was a status report, and it appears

that what Obama and the DNC has been doing is working.

We will never get the perfect president. All we can hope for is one we can work with.

Remember, Obama is not a progressive or even a Liberal, but he is the best we can get with politics as it is. What we had to choose from was him and Hillary. Hillary is even more conservative than him. If you don't like Obama's politics, you'd hate Hillary's.

Judging from how Obama played the Hillary campaign, Obama is the superior tactician.

The most important thing we can do is force the government to take the money out of politics. We need public financing now.

[defendandprotect]

182. We don't need a "peerfect" president -- we a president who isn't corporate and RW ....

!!!!


And, I guess we're now adding "perfect" president to the long and humorous

list of "pink ponies, magic wands, chess games, purists " --- ROFL


What we need is for our candidates/elected officials to STOP taking money from

elites/corporations!!

Let's start with Obama -- next time you see him ask --

"President Obama ... who are you SELLING yourself to today?" -- !!

[alfredo]

189. How can we ask Obama and not his Republican opponent?

Both have to play by the same set of rules, and it is up to us to force a change in the rules.

We have to force a change in the system, picking out one politician to change won't force the needed reforms globally.

[defendandprotect]

193. Are you serious? Ask BOTH of them -- but be sure to ask Obama -- !!

No one has to play by corrupt rules. Only corrupt people and organizations do that!

Force a change in the system -- stop voting for the "lesser evil" which only has worked

over 40 years or more to move the party and the Congress further to the right.

I'm sure you recall that old saying about doing the same thing over and over again ....

and expecting different results?

[alfredo]

199. So you want Obama to go to a gun fight with a knife.

[defendandprotect]

201. If OBAMA said "NO" to Wall Street money -- he'd snatch victory from the jaws of defeat -- !!

And, he'd also have to toss that Wall Street team he's so fond of --

and connections to Third Way --


:puke:

[alfredo]

204. I want him to do that too, but that will not change the rot in our government.

We have to make the change and make them play by our rules.

[defendandprotect]

206. NOT having our candidates SELL themselves to elites/corpos will change the ROT/corruption...!!

You think the Dem Party which was infiltrated by RW Koch Bros. funding DLC

is the same party it was -- or the control now by Third Way?

Corruption is created by elite/corporate $$$ ---- and those who take it!

[alfredo]

207. It will reduce the ability of the elite to control DC. It will, in time, change

The type of person who runs for office.

Locally we had a foreign water speculator take control of our city council. They pumped three million into a propaganda campaign. They were able to field a well funded slate of compliant candidates. They steamrolled everyone else. They even bought off the mayor. Would their candidates have run without the promises of big money and paid staff?

[defendandprotect]

212. Corruption is a two sided coin ... there is the $$$ and there are those who take it .... !!!

Obama and Democrats, sadly, are taking the money.

That should be a crime in itself.

[newspeak]

176. he extended the unemployment-should it even have been on the table with

the obscene tax cuts? And now, those extended benefits are gone, but we still have the sociopathic repugs bargaining again for those tax cuts. Also, these sick feks are talking about the poor and middle class need to be taxed more--well ya know, "you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip" and the middle class are losing their decent jobs to your "don't tax us bro, greedy friends--who have apparently been wallowing in all of those cuts and benefits while we have taken a hit.

[WillyT]

161. Amen Brother... Amen...

:mad:

:kick: & Rec !!!

[chaska]

166. It's time to shut the doors on this Democratic party thing.

Close it up, shut it down. Let's do something else.

A third party (to replace this neither fish (Dem) nor foul (GOP) Dempublican party) is inevitable. It will lose initially, but the way we're going now it's just a death by a thousand cuts kind of thing. Kill it now and be done with it.

[defendandprotect]

174. Very little left of the party after 20+ years of Koch Bros/DLC control over it -- and now Thrid Way

control over the party --

Jonathan Cowan, Pres./Third Way says openly -- on C-span -- that the stance/policy

of the Third Way is that 'THE BASE OF THE PARTY IS TO BE IGNORED' -- !!


And, further, that "POPULISM AND POPULIST DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATES ARE THE EQUIVALENT

OF KARL ROVE PROPAGANDA OF EXTREMISM" --


Third Way now has control of the party -- and they think New Deal/FDR is "Karl Rove

extremism" -- !!


Who is going to support what's left of this party -- give their money to it --

support their candidates?

[slackmaster]

171. I like you, kentuck

Uncontrolled anger can be harmful to your physical and mental health.

Please try ignoring the news for a couple of days.

[kentuck]

177. Any Democrat that is not a little bit angry should check their pulse...

...or their Party credentials.

[slackmaster]

200. I'm at war with Bank of America, my ex-wife has ruined my credit, I just "fired" my fiancee,

...I'm evicting her from my house, and the medication I'm taking to repair the damage to my bones caused by bad dietary advice from the vega-Nazi quack doctor who I fired this year has hammered my stomach.

I'm having a Tanqueray gin and tonic.

:toast:

[LWolf]

180. So you've reached the point

I was at in 2008, when I saw that there was no chance to elect a good Democrat; that we were left with 2 assholes who called themselves Democrats but who are neo-liberal to the core.

That election empowered every asshole in office with a D by their name to betray the 99%.

[RegieRocker]

237. Ayep

[Laelth]

181. Righteous rant! n/t

-Laelth

[WinkyDink]

185. 100% agree. Cutting one dime from Medicare/SS, even if raising taxes on the rich 3000%, STILL TAKES

THAT DIME!

THERE IS NO RATIONAL OR LGICAL OR HUMANE "QUID PRO QUO"!

And paying down the deficit before anything else is ridiculously stupid.

WTH is wrong with Obama?! Oh, wait; he likes Rahm and Arne. hmmmm....

[walerosco]

186. K&R

The sellouts needs to be targeted next election. Theres nothing worse that a republican in dem clothing

[krispos42]

188. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

K and attempted R

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

190. Max Baucus is not too dissimilar from Fucking Joementum (Lieberman).

I'm in triple digits. :woohoo:

[lonestarnot]

191. What you said!

K but can't R, too late!

[Major Hogwash]

194. Is there a link to this ridiculous display of nonsense???

Or is it just more "fun on the internet crap"??

[Major Hogwash]

195. How many filibusters did McConnell use in the Senate for the last 3 years?

I lost count. Does anyone have a current count?

[Major Hogwash]

196. What state does McConnell come from anyway??

And how many threads complaining about McConnell are started at DU on a daily basis??

[dionysus]

210. you know damn well republicans get a pass here. the goal is to crap on obama.. been that way since

before the inauguration.

they want him to lose.. they don't care if the GOP takes over, they just want their "revenge" for him winning in the first place.

[ellisonz]

221. Correct.

John Edwards's body lies a-mouldering in the grave; (3X)
His soul's marching on!

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah! his soul's marching on!

He's gone to be a soldier in the army of the Lost! (3X)
His soul's marching on!

(Chorus)

John Edwards's knapsack is strapped upon his back! (3X)
His soul's marching on!

(Chorus)

His pet lambs will meet him on the way; (3X)
They go marching on!

(Chorus)

They will hang Barack Obama to a sour apple tree! (3X)
As they march along!

(Chorus)

Now, three rousing cheers for the Socialist/Green Party; (3X)
As we are marching on!

[Zorra]

209. kick

[Proud Liberal Dem]

227. Was this the deal that Republicans on the SC suggested last weeks

and the one the Democrats rejected? :shrug: