A good friend of mine works in what you might consider the sex industry

[Capitalocracy]

No, she's not a pornstar or a prostitute, but she dresses up in latex and punches men as hard as she can, and they pay her to do it. She loves her job.

People like weird shit. Safe, consensual, and between adults... those are the only rules. Let's not lose sight of that.

[valerief]

1. I'll bet they're bank CEOs. nt

[gateley]

3. I'd punch them for free. nt

[stuntcat]

39. made me LOL!

:rofl:

[spanone]

47. bwahahahahaa...naw, take the money

[Capitalocracy]

4. heh heh... job creators after all!

I guess we were wrong... and here I was shouting, "Hey, job creators... CREATE A JOB!"

[gateley]

2. K&R - nt

[redqueen]

5. She is a prostitute. Lucky for her, not the kind that gets beat or murdered. Usually.

Still an occupational hazard.

And lucky her, she chose it for herself, and not because she was abused.

She's one of the very lucky few. Certainly we should all ignore everyone who doesn't fit that ideal... if we dare bring them up we are pearl-clutching prudes who want to ban free speech.

[Capitalocracy]

6. No, I'm with you on that

The issue of legalizing prostitution or not is a tough one because of the exploitation inherent in the lack of economic opportunity. In a perfect world, I'd say OK, you want to be a prostitute, fine. But that only works if there are other opportunities for everyone... not the case right now.

[redqueen]

13. I definitely support Sweden's (and Iceland's and Denmark's) method

of dealing with prostitution.

[meow2u3]

15. I'm with you on that one

In Scandanavian countries, it's legal to be a hooker but a crime to pay for one. That's better known as the abolitionist approach.

[redqueen]

18. It's not perfect...

but it's so obviously a step in the right direction.

I hope that Sweden eventually adopts Norway's and Denmark's laws regarding sexual objectification in advertising.

If those two trends catch on, we may see some serious progress.

[Cid_B]

46. I'll google it but on its face it sounds pretty damn restrictive...

on freedom of speech and very subjective.

I could be wrong...

*to the google*

[hughee99]

12. Based on the description provided, how is she a prostitute?

Someone who dresses up in latex and punches men for money may be a dominatrix (or possibly a pro-wrestler), but no sex, no prostitution. Unless, of course you want to take the vaguest possible meaning in which case we are pretty much all prostitutes.

[redqueen]

14. Prostitution = the sale of sexual services.

Are you saying there is some other reason besides cheap, impersonal sexual thrills that these men pay this woman to hit them?

[hughee99]

16. And by "sexual services" you mean violence?

No "sex" (based on the description available) takes place. The criminal act of solicitation has not been performed. If they guy got off watching someone clean his kitchen, wash his dog, or dressed up like the Gunnersaurus Rex doing jumping jacks, does that make the maid, dog groomer, and mascot all prostitutes?

[redqueen]

17. What is this "sex" (based on the description avaliable) stuff about?

It's a sexual service.

And yeah, in your ridiculous analogy, it would still be prostitution, but only if the person selling the sexual service was in on the real meaning of the transaction. He's still soliciting, but if the solicited is clueless about the fact that the john is getting off on it, then obviously they weren't knowingly taking money for sexual services.

[hughee99]

19. So what your saying is that anyone that gets paid to do something

that someone could get off on (which is almost anything) and is aware that someone is getting off on it, is a prostitute. If a hooters waitress workes a shift and notices a big tip from a guy who was "getting off" on her outfit, is she a prostitute? She performed the same service for that person as she did for many other men that night (waitress), but for one patron, her service was disturbingly "special".

[Capitalocracy]

21. Probably more than one customer on a given day on that one.

And what about this: Sex isn't the only demeaning or degrading thing you can be paid to do... I once subtitled a documentary on how HIV is a myth and AIDS can be cured by diet, exercise, and positive energy. I still feel bad for having done it, probably much worse than the woman in question feels for punching guys.

[redqueen]

23. Of course it's not the most or the only degrading or demeaning thing you can do.

And like clockwork, we have the derailment already. Nobody said prostitution was the worst thing anyone could ever do like ever ever evar.

Strawman arguments, whataboutery, nitpicking to the nth degree (e.g. a philosophical discussion of all the possible things prostitution could entail, when the definition is not new or widely debated).


FFS.

[hughee99]

27. Yes, NOBODY ever said that about prostitution (including me).

The definition is not new, nor is it widely debated. Go check out any law book.

[hughee99]

26. This was what I was wondering. Prostitution has two different definitions

1. One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.
2. One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.

I was wondering if you were using the second or the first definition. It sounds like we're both using the first definition up until describing your unfortunately personal experience with the documentary (which would be def #2), we just differ on the definition of "sex act" where mine seems to be much more narrow than yours.

I'm sorry about the documentary, I've been in a position where I couldn't turn down work that I morally objected to and regret it as well.

On edit: Sorry, I thought this was responding to one of RQ's posts.

[toddwv]

37. Isn't that more of an occupational hazard when prostitution is illegal?

At least if it is legalized, it is ALOT easier to track the safety and health of the women involved. When there is a legal stigma attached to it, the risk of getting arrested means that a prostitute can get beat up and there will likely be little legal repercussions.

[redqueen]

38. Where it is made legal, demand for the illegal forms goes up.

Not all johns like to wear condoms, or limit themselves to the kind of practices that protected prostitutes will consent to, and some of them just like to beat prostitutes up (or worse), and some of them like underage prostitutes.

Demand for ALL of that goes up, where it's legal, because the idea that buying sex is socially acceptable assures that it will go up.

Therefore making it legal makes all of those problems worse for all of the poor adults and children who are coerced into the illegal market for sex buyers.

Study Sweden's model. None of those lies about how great legalization is for women (and men and children) who sell sex are built on anything but 'gut feelings' about how things 'should' go. In practice things only get worse. Governments are now realizing there's a way to fix it and it's catching on. It requires a wholesale shift in the way we see each other as human beings (i.e. not as masturbation aids).

I really can't talk about these issues anymore. The extremely obvious reaction (or non-reaction) to miss representation demonstrates that too many people are too happy with the status quo. I can't deal with it.

[toddwv]

42. It's not really a gut feeling.

It's merely acknowledging that prostitution occurs, that it has always occurred and that it will continue to occur. Just because there are multiple layers to the problem doesn't mean that it's wrong to peel back the first few layers. Making such a lucrative trade, and it IS a lucrative trade which is why it will ALWAYS exist, illegal only makes it MORE lucrative for those willing to take the risk and ensures that violence is a guaranteed part of business.

Regardless of if it is illegal, there is ALWAYS demand and there will always be demand for sexual services. I think that, and yes this is my own opinion, when you make it illegal, those who are willing to take the plunge and commit the crime will have few compunctions against the other behaviors associated with it.

Legalizing prostitution does not legalize violence or underage prostitution. Making prostitution illegal all but guarantees that these will also be more lucrative.

[redqueen]

49. No, there wont always be widespread demand.

Sweden and several other countries are proving it.

We are socially conditioned to think that it is acceptable to pay to use another persons body for our own sexual gratification. This is already changing, thank goodness.

As for whatever it is that makes people think things get so much better where it is legal to buy sex, its definitely not observation of reality, because that shows the opposite.

[bluestateguy]

7. Or the working girls at Dennis Hof's Cathouse (HBO)

Legal Nevada prostitutes. Many of those women make 6 figure incomes, and yes that is after the house takes their cut.

Legalized, taxed and regulated.

[pitohui]

44. "many" of those women do NOT make 6 figure incomes, i doubt that ANY of them do

there's a reason most whores in nevada want to work in clark county and other places where it's illegal not in legal cathouses where someone else takes all the money

and i apologize in advance for getting my knowledge from real life instead of hbo!!!

[seabeyond]

45. curious

it's illegal not in legal cathouses where someone else takes all the money

can you say this in a different way. my mind is not getting what you are saying

thanks

[sufrommich]

8. I don't really care what consenting adults do for kicks. I would

like to thank you for spelling "lose" correctly, though.It's a rare sight these days.

[Capitalocracy]

9. Oh, I'm sorry...

Lets naught loose cite uv htat. ;)

[Nye Bevan]

11. Not "kicks" in this case. "Punches". (nt)

[Ian David]

10. Isn't that how Houdini died?

http://houdinez.tripod.com/hou20.html

[donco]

20. I guess you could say that I worked in the sex industry

as well and upon occasion I would be forced to punch someone also. I was a bouncer in a strip club.

[LadyHawkAZ]

22. I am delighted to rec this n/t

[femrap]

24. If your friend ever

wants to take a vacation, I'd be happy to step in.

Are the dudes naked? Do they get off? Are there certain places that she can't punch?

The dudes must feel they deserve a beating for being very bad IRL. What's your friends theory of why most of the dudes like this?

Do the dudes just want to reduce their guilt?

This is the very edge of the 'sex' industry. It's more of a 'freak' industry. Can't get any STDs, after all.

[Capitalocracy]

29. I haven't talked to her too much about the specifics...

but apparently these men tend to have a lot of money.

[femrap]

30. And I bet somewhere

in their subconscious they feel extremely guilty about the way they came about all of this money.

For me it sounds like a great gig...they can rid themselves of their guilt and I can get rid of my anger. It's a win-win.

[lunatica]

25. I wish I knew your friend.

It would be fascinating to hear her story.

[seabeyond]

28. yea. she beats up people and gets paid for it. nt

[Critters2]

31. I jsut realized...I'm doing the same thing. I serve the most dysfunctional church on the planet

(seriously) and I'm basically paid to take these crazy people's abuse. She's probably better paid and doesn't have to live in a house that belongs to them.

[Capitalocracy]

32. What kind of church do you work for

and what do you do there?

[Critters2]

33. It's a deeply dysfunctional congregation of the United Church of Christ.

I'm the pastor, for the time being. Our biggest problem is that we have some members who were abusive of their pastor in another denomination, and that congregation told them to leave. Then they came to this church. I actually had my church president suggest I get a restraining order against one of them. It really has been that bad at times.

[Capitalocracy]

34. Abusive?

What, like physically abusive, or they disrupt and throw insults during the service? That's wild stuff, I've never heard of anything like that before.

[Critters2]

36. Latest episode--a woman backs me into a corner screaming about

how she didn't like the way I reported about a judicatory meeting during worship. This happened last Sunday, just after worship, while people were leaving the sanctuary. So far, no physical abuse, but there are people worried that it could get there. Needless to say, I'm looking for another job.

[Edweird]

35. I worked in that part of the industry for well over a decade

providing people like your friend a safe and interesting place to play. Needless to say, I've seen it all.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. consenting adults

The amount of energy wasted by people worrying about consenting adult behavior is staggering. If we just held true to the core concept of 'my body, my business', think what we could avoid- not just idiotic censorship crusades but also the wars on choice, drugs, etc. The laws keeping terminally ill people from choosing a dignified, pain-free exit.

Enough, already.

[Yavin4]

41. So, A Boxer Is A Prostitute???

Or a MMA fighter?

[pitohui]

43. is a boxer or an mma fighter paid hundreds of dollars to punch some guy in the balls?

i did not know that!!! (sarcasm!)

you, my friend, are naive, the ball-bust fetish is about SEX, not about sport

let me ask you this, if your daughter was smacking some strange guy's naked balls for money, would you think she was a whore and try to get her to find work you could be proud of in front of your buddies...or would you brag to your work buddies, oh yeah, my daughter is an "entertainer, she makes $300 an hour..." and then, trust me, you would not finish the sentence telling what she did for a living

this job is about sex, it's prostitution, it's sex work, and whether it's legal or quasi-legal is a pretty open question in a lot of places

in theory, you can't consent to being injured and if the woman ever badly injures a client, she may be in a very bad situation legally

[Yavin4]

48. Boxers Paid To Hit People in the Head, the Kidneys, etc.

And some boxers die in the ring. And, it's all legal.

Yet, you're not as exercised about that.

in theory, you can't consent to being injured

Every time a boxer steps into the ring, he/she gets injured.