George Clooney's Movie "Ides of March" is Playing...Have you seen it? What do you think ?

[KoKo]

Our local RW Newspaper gave horrible review...

I don't know if it's a remake of "The Candidate" and done poorly ...or a film that's a "Groundbreaker."

If it isn't some new info in that movie then I don't want to pay and get the Popcorn & Coke...

Has anyone seen it? Is it worth a watch for those of us "already clued in?" :shrug:

[virgogal]

1. I loved it,as did my friend. The corruption of politics--sad.

[elleng]

2. Should I see it, The Way, or J. Edgar?

[virgogal]

13. I've seen all three----would recommend all three. But one of

the most interesting movie I've seen is "Take Shelter"----art small,art house theaters.

[elleng]

14. Thanks; I guess I'll have a busy day tomorrow!

[virgogal]

15. See my Post 13----I edited it. An absolutely astonishing ending to

"Take Shelter".

[elleng]

17. Thanks; will look for it.

Ides, Way and J. Edgar all at neighborhood theater, so I may go and watch watch watch; haven't done that in a long time.

[virgogal]

18. Enjoy----this time of year a lot of good ones are released.

[wordpix]

40. I liked Take Shelter but it was a little slow

[KoKo]

3. Have you seen Redford's "The Candidate," though. Is this different?

Thanks for your reply that you loved it, though. I need to see more replies before I pay the big bucks. I'm afraid it's just a "remake" of what some of us Older DU'ers have seen before.

[Luminous Animal]

4. I haven't seen it but a friend has and he said it is very good and not a remake of

"The Candidate".

From what he told me, I think this review might answer some of your questions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/oct/30/ides-of-march-clooney-review

[KoKo]

7. Thanks for the Guardian Review...Reviewer says it's not Redford's "The Candidate" and goes on here:

"Clooney's film is altogether more brutal than The Candidate, which, if only for Redford's presence, retains a core of idealism, as indeed to an even greater extent do Redford's post-Watergate thrillers, All the President's Men and Three Days of the Condor. In fact the informed cynicism that The Ides of March brings to mind is that displayed in Gore Vidal's play and film about a presidential election, The Best Man, when Vidal himself was deeply involved as a Jack Kennedy supporter, as well as his sequence of political novels that began in 1967 with Washington, DC.

Co-scripted by Clooney with Beau Willimon (on whose play Farragut North the film is based) and Grant Heslov (who was Oscar-nominated for Goodnight, and Good Luck), The Ides of March is set largely in Cincinnati where the handsome liberal governor of Pennsylvania, Mike Morris (Clooney), is competing in the Democratic primary elections with his eye on the presidency. It's March, the streets are slushy with melting snow and the air's full of heady rhetoric about the future of America spoken by people with patriotic pins on their left lapels standing in front of outsized Stars and Stripes. A man emerges from the darkness to speak with disarming honesty about his liberal political positions, but he's not Governor Morris, who is in fact a background figure. He's Stephen Meyers (Ryan Gosling), a 30-year-old aide of great brilliance who is using a speech he's written for Morris to test and adjust the acoustics for Morris's public debate with a fellow contender. Gosling subtly suggests something indefinably suspect about his character."

More at link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/oct/30/ides-of-marc...

[CTyankee]

6. Yep, it's an update on "The Candidate." I think what is most striking about Ides is

the last scenes with Clooney. The utter cynicism of the film's ending. There is a grittiness that "The Candidate" lacked (or wouldn't present). A real presence of our reality. And I appreciated that. See it for Clooney's honesty as an actor and a director...

[KoKo]

8. Thanks...about the cynicsm of the last scene. I felt I'd grown past "The Candidate" in that

I am suffering from "extreme cynicsm" from the last election. And, I've been through quite a few elections in my lifetime. I'm the most cynical these days than I've ever been.

[CTyankee]

9. "Ides" is way more cynical than "Candidate." I felt that "Candidate" had a soft spot

for Redford's character that tried to excuse his transgressions...or at least make them less awful. Clooney is a real monster...

[KoKo]

12. Thanks. Your review seems to be along the lines of karynnj 's below.

I'm going to pass on this movie after reading here. I can always rent at home...and not go out and pay to be more depressed by our political system.

The Candidate was good enough for me. I don't need to think about "monster." We just lived through 8 years of one...and I'm not sure how the current Prez is going to turn out. But, I do know how evil the election system has become...so don't need to be educated by going to see "Ides of March." Good for others...but not for this DU'er or many of us who've lived through these dark years.

[elleng]

25. Right. Saw it today; 'enjoyed' first 2/3, anxiety during remainder.

1 1/2 hours later, saw The Way! Good matchup pictures for a Sunday Afternoon!
:hi:

[karynnj]

10. I saw both

I can see the similarity, but they are also different. Both deal with what is usually unseen in political campaigns, though I content in the internet age, we really do see more of the political operatives - and few can be defended as great people. But, Ides of March is much much darker.

The nominee in the candidate can be seen as idealistic, but it is almost like his eloquence and the reaction of people to it was almost intoxicating - yet at the end when he actually was going to win, he had the self awareness to ask what he should do now - an admission that he really was not agenda driven as running because he could. That he had this awareness, IMO, actually redeems him to some extent. You would not see it in the narcissists of either party in real life.

In Ides of March, the main operative seems to be a Trippi like character. The narrative you view of him at the beginning is that he is committed to the candidate - seeing something special in him - by the end it is a toss up between him and the candidate as to which is the worse human being - where either has a good claim to win that designation!

One similarity is that both cause me to think of how a charismatic, eloquent man can easily become a demagogue willing to win using any words that work. People want someone to believe in so badly, that they are too willing to ignore any red flags. At the end of each movie, if I had to guess what would happen next, I see two very different paths.

In Ides of March, the politician has escaped unharmed from the pain he caused - no one seems to know. He manages throughout to appear a good guy - maybe because he has the looks of George Clooney and some innate appearance of gravitas and sincerity. I would expect that not getting called on this will lead him to continue his reckless behavior and, at some point, he will join the list of politicians publicly humiliated by his own despicableness.

With the candidate, I would hope that his modest self awareness that he really is not sure if he is ready to actually lead leads him to follow his conscience and gut instincts - remembering what his values really were. He can pull together a team and they can aim to really try to improve people's lives - just as he spoke of. One danger of his campaign is that people may be disappointed that he can not do all he spoke of, but - unless I missed something - there is nothing to suggest that either his values changed. He seems at the end to realize that to some degree he was carried along, enjoying the cheers and the enthusiasm he was able to generate in the crowds around him.

[KoKo]

11. karynnj....Thanks for taking time for that thoughful review...

after reading it...I think that I would probably be very depressed by the Clooney Movie ...much preferring the hopefulness of what I remember of my viewing of the "Candidate."

I'm cynical enough...and watched enough of politics over the last 15 years that I don't need to be educated about the "dark sides" of candidates. I think I will leave the "education" to those younger than I. I still hope for the Redford candidate who gets through it all and as you say: "With the candidate, I would hope that his modest self awareness that he really is not sure if he is ready to actually lead leads him to follow his conscience and gut instincts - remembering what his values really were. He can pull together a team and they can aim to really try to improve people's lives - just as he spoke of.

I would rather be disillusioned by a candidate who tried to keep their values after an election than one who wins and goes to the dark side.

I think I will pass on this movie. I can always rent it later. I don't think I want to pay to see it.

Again, thanks.

[karynnj]

19. Thank you for your comments

I saw Ides of March very soon after it came out - something I rarely do. It is a very well made movie. In addition, it is very thought provoking as I initially was very impressed by the Clooney character, based on nothing other than - well he looked like Clooney and his manner appeared serious and intelligent - and he sounded in turn like just about every Democrat that I have liked. It was rather embarrassing when you got more insight into his character.

With the way things are now, it will likely be on netflicks relatively soon.

[CTyankee]

22. karynnj, what did you think of clooney's scene in the kitchen with gosling?

I think the baring of his teeth was just genius in showing how vicious he could be. I loved that scene. It was the most fabulous scene of the movie to me.

The rest was mostly predictable in my book...kind of standard. But that kitchen scene, wow, what a revelation that was..."she had an abortion so there was no DNA." That just sealed it for me. Oh my dear jesus god...that poor girl...

[karynnj]

23. Completely agree that is when you see who he really is

He was absolutely without a conscience, but Gosling was no better - it was completely true that the girl's fears were completely justified. He was completely ready to sell her out to move to the "winning team" - this after all his comments on the Clooney character being a "special candidate" for him. He had no moral core as well.

It is a very dark movie.

[CTyankee]

27. As I think I said before, I couldn't completely believe Gosling's character.

I never believed he was originally so innocent. He looked like a real operator in the opening scenes. He had a cold look in his eyes that pretty much predicted what he'd do later. I would have liked to have seen the character played as a "real" innocent, but Gosling didn't play him that way...

[karynnj]

28. You had much better insight than me

I didn't like him - if there is a real person he reminded me of it would have been Trippi. I read Trippi's book because someone asked me to. He had the same sort of fanatical support of first Dean and then Edwards as the coming of teh Democratic Messiah - with him, of course, cast as John the Baptist. In his book, it was stunning how he - in the end - blamed Dean, who did not listen to him as much as Trippi thought he should have. What surprised me was that neither his heart or some latent bit of conscience was enough to keep him from trying to trade the confidential information that he knew would destroy her for a possible seat on the opposing campaign. It is noteworthy that she immediately knew he likely would after hearing someone tell him of his comments after he was kicked out - especially after she could not reach him.

It is sad that so many of the campaign operatives that we can name are pretty disgusting - including Democrats Mark Penn, Carville, Dick Morris (at least with Clinton), Trippi, Lahayne.

[CTyankee]

29. Oh, Gosling was good at playing the Trippi type but not the wide-eyed

"true believer." The wheels were always turning...

[karynnj]

30. I wonder if that was intended

If so, it would have been very tough to do - as you are playing someone who is at the bottom duplicitous, but semi-good at it.

[CTyankee]

31. He played him too savvy from the very start. I get it that his character was very

good at what he did. But he was certainly pretty ruthless early on. Remember when he answered the phone call he thought was from his father, saying something like "don't tell me somebody died." That was an indication at least to me that he cared about no one but himself...

[karynnj]

32. You are right -- he was pretty ruthless

It is interesting that the play was written from someone active in the Dean campaign, which I learned from a poster on this thread. If the person was meant to be someone who worked there, it really is a pretty damning indictment - and it is hard not see him as Trippi. It sounds like the campaign turned the playwright off politics. (I find it hard to believe that the Clooney character had anything to do with Dean.)

[CTyankee]

33. Well, we don't know what people do in their private lives but I tend to agree with you.

Dean just doesn't seem to be the type that certainly Clooney plays in the movie. But we don't know what other kinds of liaisons might have been formed between people working hard on a political campaign where emotions ran high...that would be quite different in my humble opinion from what John Edwards did...

My (uninformed) guess is that the playwright took a campaign narrative and embellished it to encompass other sins from other campaigns in order to make it a "morality play."

[karynnj]

35. True

I wasn't meaning the specifics or even the sex, but rather that a candidate with a decent/reasonable facade who was really pretty base underneath. I would see Edwards that way - and not just because of Rielle. There was an arrogance and nastiness hidden under the bright, Southern golden boy smile - yet even now there are people who long to believe that the facade itself had some genuineness.

If abstracted (away from his specific transgression), the biggest disappointment to someone (like the playwright, who I guess was young and idealistic) is meeting someone you respect enough to give a year or two of your life supporting - which they did - and finding not only was he not inspiring, but there were things you really disliked.

[CTyankee]

36. Yep, you "go along to get along" type of thing...very typical...but

Ides really takes it a step further. AFter all, what happens to the girl is really extraordinary...there hasn't been that on a campaign trail that I've heard about...but it doesn't mean there hasn't been trysts and affairs...certainly that's part of the scenario in any campaign...

[madfloridian]

37. It is supposedly a composite candidate in Clooney's movie.

I have not seen it nor do I intend to do so. I am jaded enough already. But the hijinks were not limited to any one campaign, and if that is the way Clooney presents it....it is unfair to any of them.

[CTyankee]

38. well, perhaps it is more John Edwards than Howard Dean.

Ugh. Whatever.

Bad enough...

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

39. Yeah that scene in the kitchen definitely is the climax of the film.

Nicely acted by both Gosling and Clooney but especially Clooney.

[CTyankee]

42. Clooney excels in this kind of tight scene. I remember in Up in the Air

a key scene in the bar of a hotel where Clooney, the woman he was having a fling with, and his young protege who had just broken up with her fiance on her cell phone. It was a masterfully done scene, a work of art in and of itself. This is what I appreciate about Clooney the most. He gets the best out of the actors, out of himself, and out of the script. A beautiful interplay...

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

43. My personal favorite is from "Michael Clayton" where he's advising the hit and run asshole.

"There's no champagne room." That scene just painted a perfect portrait of his character and you suddenly get a pretty good understanding of who he is and the job he's been doing for his firm for years.

[virgogal]

16. I'm an ancient DUer,and yes I saw The Candidate. It is similar.

[SharonAnn]

26. This is different from the Candidate except for the "idol has feet of clay" part.

And, of course, George Clooney is, well, George Clooney. Sigh!

[madfloridian]

5. It's from a play written by a Dean staffer, Beau Willimon, called Farrugut North.

Clooney adapted it and called it Ides of March. Loosely based on someone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farragut_North_%28play%29

[a kennedy]

20. I was sick after watching it.....

everyone has "something" on everyone else....it's a dirty business. Ugh

[KoKo]

21. It sounds to real to be appealing to go out and spend the money. We can watch the nightly news...

UGH!

[marlakay]

24. I felt that way to

Politics is slimy...

[ReverendDeuce]

34. I thought it was a dull, lifeless snoozefest...

Seriously. I knew what was going to happen within... shit, the first fifteen minutes it was clear that Clooney was a robot.

But seriously, it was excruciatingly predictable. The big "faceoff" between the two main characters was so limp and bland... I was very disappointed in the movie.

[wordpix]

41. haven't seen it but reviews in Washington are not good