I had to leave Salon's Table Talk when they decided on a set fee.

[aquart]

I was happy there. I was a Salon shareholder. Had to go.

I don't doubt DU needs the money.

Or that many here can comfortably pay it.

But a two-tiered system of paid members and freeloaders will force me into the position of identified freeloader, someone not as good as the others.

That is a significant change.

[MilesColtrane]

1. It's a two-tiered system now.

[Ruby the Liberal]

39. Shhhhhhh

Didn't you get the narrative of the day memo?

This whole drama is just beyond sad.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. You know, some people have stars, and some don't, even now...

So, we already have this two-tier system.

There is no shame in not having a star.

You will still be able to participate, even in the groups. You won't need a star to play in those...

You will always be as good as everyone else.

:hi:

[LooseWilly]

4. Funny, can't participate in groups now without a star... hard to imagine that will change

Of course, those who are willing to pony up the dough really have no idea what limitations are placed on those who don't... that is one detail that I don't imagine will change... ;)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. Read here what Skinner said about participating in groups:

Then you won't have to imagine...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2300356&mesg_id=2300552

[GoCubsGo]

17. Thank you. I missed that.

It's good to know. I don't care about seeing ads. I see them everywhere else, and I ignore them. As I said on other threads, I just use Ad-Block extension on my Firefox to make the offensive ones go away. My fear was losing the access to the groups. I am happy to learn that will not be a problem.

[RagAss]

9. True,,,I'm lucky to be able to afford to sign on at all.

But hey....it's just like real life.

[SidDithers]

20. It absoluely will change...

on DU3 all DU'ers, regardless of donor status, will have access to Groups.

Sid

[Bryn]

24. That's true, but not very noticable

I don't look to see if anyone has a star or not. So I wonder with this new system, a member who pays will have a huge fancy glittering star with avatar. You know, whenever I don't pay, my own avatar disappears. LOL

[CaliforniaPeggy]

37. If you have a custom avatar, it's true that you need a star to keep that.

Yours is quite nice, BTW!

:hi:

[msongs]

3. you get to choose where you spend your money. you are not a victim. isn't the internet great? nt

[aquart]

13. Ah. The assumption that we all have money.

And it's just a matter of choice.

Reminds me of my step-nephew who assumed every child was born with a bicycle.

[Scuba]

6. I went without a star for many month, then someone bought me one....

... every once in a while I would notice the star. Otherwise, I noticed no difference.

Several months ago I made a small donation and bought my own star. I'll donate on DU3 too.

DU is the most valuable tool in my toolbox.

[aquart]

11. Don't use the search engine much, I take it?

[Scuba]

16. The search field/button on the top right? Is that not available w/o a star?

[knitter4democracy]

7. My only problem is that the donation won't be up to us anymore.

If we could only give $10, we still got the star. Now there will be a tiered system with set fees from what Skinner said, and I can't afford that on my substitute/single mom wages.

[Uben]

8. Must have turned the financial end over to B of A

Fees. I hate fees. I like donations. I try to donate every quarter. Something about giving voluntarily feels better than fees.

Rethink this. Even BofA was smart enough to listen to the people.

Fees=bad Donations=good

[bemildred]

10. I agree.

It's not broke, don't fix it.

[SidDithers]

21. Maybe it was broke...nt

Sid

[Fumesucker]

12. Me too, Table Talk was a very smart forum, probably smarter than DU on average..

And I left when they went to pay to post..

Along with about 90% of the rest of the posters, TT is a pathetic ghost of what it used to be.

[QC]

25. Table Talk was my online home for several years, and yes,

it was a much smarter place than DU has been the past few years, since becoming a fansite.

Far more civil, too.

But pay-to-post destroyed Table Talk. Many of the smartest, most thought-provoking posters left. They were the ones who made the place worthwhile.

I hope that doesn't happen here. We shall see.

[ecstatic]

14. "identified freeloader"

While I don't plan to be a paying member in the new DU3, I don't agree with how you view non-starred members. I donated in the past in order to use features, never to feel superior to the non-starred members.

[LynneSin]

15. How is that different from now? I've known tons of people without stars in the current DU system

never thought of them as 'free-loaders'.

Getting annoyed that suddenly we have to label folks.

[aquart]

18. But you never knew how much anyone paid for a star. Now you will.

I enjoyed being able to scrape up a bit and buy my star. Now I will never be able to have that little bit of self-respect again.

[LynneSin]

28. But I've never cared about that before

Some of my closest DU friends don't have stars, never bothered me before but now I'm being told by DUers I should shame these people.


I'm finding it kinda offensive.

[aquart]

32. That's not it, really, is it?

And I'm sorry you don't get the difference which is really closer to going from being marginally self-supporting to welfare. Would you like to do that? Me, neither.

[pipi_k]

31. Self-respect...

if it depends on a "fee" paid to get a shiny little star on an internet discussion group, then there's something seriously wrong.

Maybe it's just me, but my self respect is tied up with how I treat other people, and how I handle bills I create.


Like others here, I don't even notice whether or not someone has a star, and I don't even pay attention to my own. I pay attention to people's avatars and what they say and how they treat me, and how they treat other people here.

[aquart]

36. That's wonderful.

And I'm happy to have the perspective of those who know they can afford to pay.

[LanternWaste]

19. I imagine the melodramatic and martyred label of "free-loader

I imagine the melodramatic and martyred label of "free-loader, someone not as good as..." is valid only to those who already perceive themselves that way-- regardless of the new (or current) system at DU.

[aquart]

22. And so it begins.

The haves talking down to the have nots.

[LanternWaste]

23. I'm a have-not., and happy as is, Thanks.

I'm a have-not.

I'm also not into self-fulfilling prophecies too much either. :shrug:

[pipi_k]

35. Pretty ironic, really...

that snark being said by someone WITH a star to someone WITHOUT a star.

[Codeine]

38. He's without a star and his posts are always worth reading.

Seems to me people react to his posts and not his donor status, just as will happen in the future.

[datasuspect]

26. i don't even pay for internet porn

why would i pay for internet discussion?

anyway, they have nuttier nutbars on newspaper comments sections.

[pipi_k]

27. "Freeloaders"????

I don't know about anyone else here, but I certainly don't see anyone who can't pay as being a "freeloader"!!

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. NO ONE has to pay anything to post and participate on DU! From Skinner's OP:

"And as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge."

[aquart]

30. Yah. NOT what we're discussing, really.

The issue is more closely related to disenfranchisement.

Sorry you don't get it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Thanks for the insult. Please, continue your whinefest. n/t

[pipi_k]

34. OK, so if it's all about being disenfranchised....

then please explain what rights are being taken away from people who don't pay the fee...