Do you feel bad vibes in the French Quarter?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

Follow up to my thread about people asking me about alcohol.

I was in the French Quarter a few years ago, before Katrina.

I was amazed at the bad juju that bars put out.
Bars- bad juju
voodoo shops - bad juju
strip clubs - bad juju

art galleries - good juju
antique stores with beautiful antiques - good juju
restaurants - good juju

The feelings changed - I walked twenty feet from a bad vibe business to a good vibe business and I could feel it.
I think there are a lot of bad vibe establishments in the French Quarter. I did not like New Orleans at all. I think there are probably negative spirits hanging out in bars.

I am not psychic, I don't see ghosts or anything like that, but I could feel this in my gut. I strenuously avoid negative people, negative entertainment, extremely dissonant music, music with negative messages and obsessions.

I don't even like to walk by the wine bottles in the grocery store. Something about all those glass bottles creeps me out.

What do you think?

[Luminous Animal]

1. Expensive stuff for the rich = good juju. Cheap diversions for the rest of us = bad juju.

For what is worth, I loved New Orleans when I visited 20 years ago. "Bad juju" and "good juju" both. I couldn't afford much of the "good juju" but I stayed up till the wee hours of the morning celebrating the "bad juju".

[Mimosa]

7. Coastal towns like NOLA, Savannah and Charleston have more equality for the rich, poor, middle class

I've lived in all 3 coastal towns. For people who live in such towns there was always more inexpensive entertainment including music, seasonal festivals, and just 'walking around' to enjoy life.

Such is definitely not true about Atlanta, where I now live.

[Withywindle]

142. Yeah, it really sounds like a pro-gentrification screed more than anything else.

But then, I like dissonant music, so I'm obviously full of the bad stuff. :shrug:

[jobycom]

2. I think it's one of the nicest places I've been.

People smile, people tell you what time it is if you ask, people seem to be happy. I don't nothing about juju, good or bad, but the people in New Orleans, including the French Quarters, are some of the best I've ever encountered.

[Huey P. Long]

92. Thank you for saying so!

I do declare the OP is all discombobulated and confounded by our behavior and way of life down here.

[jobycom]

99. My parents grew up there.

I grew up over in Gulfport, but most of my relatives were and are in New Orleans.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. First, New Orleans is more than the French Quarter.

Second, I didn't see your post about alcohol, and with no link, I have no idea what your position is.

As for your feelings, well, those are yours and yours alone, but since you placed them on this board, I will assume they are up for discussion. So...

New Orleans is a magnificent city! It is, IMO, unparalleled in beauty and intrigue. I have been all over this country and to many a city, and New Orleans, by far, is my favorite. I was in NOLA prior to Katrina, and I lived there for 5 years after Katrina (I moved there 8 months after Katrina, and just left this past February). There is an incredible amount of culture and history, which can easily be found in almost any place in the city (which includes, the French Quarter, Marigny, Bywater, Garden District, the Irish Channel, and others). It is a focal point of many languages; English, Yiddish, Spanish, French, Thai, Cajun English, French Creole, French, Portuguese, Italian, and others. There is an important history with regards to African-Americans, Native Americans, Jews, Catholics, French, Haitians, Canadaians....

Your comments regarding strip clubs and bars, well, that is your opinion, and perhaps it has something to do with your remarks about alcohol, which I didn't see, but given your comment about even passing wine in the grocery store demonstrates to me a possible aversion to it and possibly a psychological condition: Methyphobia, the fear of alcohol; though you claim it is the "glass" that "creeps you out."

As for your comment about the "bad juju" of Voodoo shops, perhaps that stems from a bias or ignorance about the religion. It is true the shops often are commercialized, which is unsurprising for a city reliant on tourism, You should learn something about Voodoo. I find it interesting your continued use of "juju" as well. It can be used as an ethnocentric way to be dismissive of West African religious practices, of which Voodoo is derivative.

So, what do I think? I think you are highly prejudiced against Voodoo and adult entertainment and have ignorantly associated those with New Orleans. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. By all means, never return to New Orleans until you learn some things, as you will not enjoy the city. I, however, will enjoy my memories and photos of NOLA and look forward to the day I get to return!

On edit (to add): No, I don't get bad vibes in the FQ. I loved it! I lived it! And I was only five blocks away, so I am confident when I say, it is what YOU make of it!

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. ...and you helped BabyG and I fall in love with it too! You were an

awesome tour guide! :loveya:

[Behind the Aegis]

47. I am so glad!

It was a fun day for sure!

[flamingdem]

65. New Orleans is the secret heart of the USA

I love all of its juju

[Mimosa]

133. And the birthplace of JAZZ!

Sidney Bechet, Louis Armstrong, Louis Prima, Danny Barker, Professor Longhair, James Booker, Wynton Marsalis, Terence blanchardDr. John, Randy Newman and a hundred more I could list. :)

I've long been amazed at how Brits and Europeans have treasured trad jazz music more than Americans have!

Mia Borders is good. She performs at Irwin mayfield's:

http://www.iclubneworleans.com/performances

Jazz Clubs in NOLA:

http://www.neworleansonline.com/neworleans/music/jazzclubs.html

I like Snug Harbor (where Julia Roberts met Lyle Lovett, also a hangout for Clint Eastwood when he visited) and the Columns. Maple leaf used to be fun.

[flamingdem]

138. SO true! We don't know how to properly treasure NO here in the USA

I was mortified by Katrina. I hope that it will be more or less as I remember when I return. So much heritage was lost.

[madokie]

180. I just had to turn on some Randy Newman

I so want to go to NO but I don't think its in my cards. :cry:

[seabeyond]

172. you are the man i want. i have another question. i have decided to get into NO before

i have to. i want to take hubby on frenchman street tuesday night and leave kids in an hotel. IF the area is ok, i want a hotel as close to this street, as i can. the older i have gotten, the worse i have gotten on eeeew factor when i stay at an hotel. i have told hubby in past, nope, not that hotel, doesnt look like they put effort into clean. and we walk out. i cannot do it. do you know commercial or native-type hotel that would be just what i am looking for? and the best restaurant walking around for that night.

thanks.

otherwise, i think we are ready to go. i tried on clothes and have to get only black pants to complete my dress code, yea....

[Behind the Aegis]

176. That area is the Faubourg Marigny (or the Marigny). That's my old neighborhood.

There are several B&B's near-by and a few traditional hotels. One is the Hotel De La Monnaie. I understand it can be quite pricey (and I don't think they have that many rooms) but since it isn't really tourist season you may be able to get a good deal. It isn't a bad area and has parking!!! It is also right by the first stop for the streetcar! It is actually across the street. It is right across from the French Market and Frenchman Street is one block back. There are a few more in that area. I would suggest running a google search (Hotels French Quarter/Marigny) and look at their sites. If you have questions, let me know. If you start a Q&A thread in the Lounge, let me know that too, I don't always see threads there.

I do suggest taking the "poorman's tour", as I call it, and jump on the streetcar at Decatur, and ride it all the way through to the end and back. Make sure you get the transfer for St. Charles. It will take about an hour and a half (depending on traffic), but it is a GREAT way to see the city, especially the homes in the Garden District. I think it like $3 bucks round-trip.

There are several good restaurants right in that area (always walk on the lit side of the street and away from cars...NOLA is still a city). IF you want a quick bite, and good pizza, the Louisiana Pizza Kitchen is right there (behind the US Mint, I think it is the mint). Angeli's is good and not overpriced. Irene's is in that area, but can be pricey and is closed on Mondays and Tuesdays (check, many restaurants go to shorter days in the off seasons). Right across from Angeli's is Fiorelli's...best damn fried chicken and pickles in the city!

If you have any other questions...give me a yell!

[seabeyond]

177. love you. thanks. gonna check some stuff out. sooooo, appreciate. nt

[Wind Dancer]

174. Wish I could recommend your response.

The city is rich in history and diversity. It's one of the most unique places in the country. I hope to visit again, soon.

Thanks for sharing.

[JVS]

4. zOMG, it seems that juju has some kind of mysterious connection to property values.

[lumberjack_jeff]

102. +1 n/t

[MADem]

5. You won't hear any good jazz in galleries, antique stores and restaurants.

Go to the bars--you'll hear some good "juju" (?) music.

There's no rule that you have to get stinking drunk to enjoy some good music. Some people actually drink soft drinks in bars--it does happen.

I think you have a strange aversion to alcohol. Only you know why.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. I don't like alcohol. I don't like hangovers.

I don't think avoiding a known poison is a "strange aversion to alcohol".

In the previous thread I mentioned three people who saw what I was drinking, non-alcoholic and made some crack about "No Jack Daniels?" or "No vodka?
and I said "I don't drink. I don't like the stuff."

I have no idea why they do this. This is in a work setting--people in my yard.
One of them was a supervisor over some people working on my property. The second one was a man who was a guest at a party in my yard. Saw me drinking milk and said "Is that a pina colada?"

Third one was a couple of weeks ago where I went to a doctor I had never seen before. I'm talking to him in the examining room and he brings up Jack Daniels? WTF is going on? Why should a doctor ask me about Jack Daniels????

Are these people all closet drunks or what? this county is very conservative and only voted wet a couple of years ago. Before that it was dry and you had to drive to the next county (20 miles) to buy any liquor at all. I don't know if there is even an off premises liquor store in the county seat. You can only buy distilled spirits in Texas at a free standing privately owned liquor store for off-premises consumption. You can buy beer and wine at the convenience stores.

When I was growing up we had no liquor in the house. That is because my father was an alcoholic and mom threatened to leave him when I was a baby. This was in the 1950s. He stopped drinking and mom stayed, thus keeping our family intact.

I admire my father greatly for having such discipline. Dad told me more than once that I was lucky that I did not like alcohol. He said "I love the stuff" and it could have destroyed our family had my father not stopped drinking.

[Mimosa]

6. Do you have a hangup about a small city you don't seem to know?

What IS your darned point?

New Orleans and the surrounding area is it's own territory. My grandparents met there and lived there for a while, my mother was educated at a convent school up on St. Charles in Uptown. I lived in New Orleans for 18 years until Katrina blew me and my partner back to Atlanta.

The French Quarter is a fleeting experience for the tourists who visit for a couple of days. The experience for tourists seems to be about getting stinking drunk. Some of us who lived in New Orleans used to reprimand the damned tourists for peeing on the walls and puking in our gutters. It's a whole 'nother environment for the people who live there and in the surrounding areas including the Faubourg Marigny.

Magic, beauty, antiques, art and music have always been in the Vieux Carre waiting to be enjoyed by the knowledgeable visitors. But if a visitor comes to NOLA with a typical 'tourist' mentality they will gravitate to the lowbrow places and drink the sugary 'hurricanes' and end up puking. They'll miss the magic.

New Orleans Louisiana and Venice Italy have something in common. The majority of tourists are often disappointed. They lack the background of education which is helpful to enjoy the small history rich ities.

BTW, New Orleans during Christmas season is especially lovely. City Park's moss draped old oaks are decorated with lights. NOLA's City Park is the most beautiful Winter Festival is among the most lovely in the world!

[seabeyond]

14. i am going to NO in about a week. i have wanted to visit this town for so long. it is for MIL/FIL

50th wedding anniversary. i want YOU for information, lol. we will be staying at the Bienville House. i think it is on destin or something in the FQ. i have been wanting to see this town forever. my inlaws have done about everything to ruin this trip for me. we have to dress up every night for dinner and dress appropriately during the day (she gave us a dress code, lol) to walk around in day. my FIL grew up in the FQ and he is going to walk us around. he wants us to walk boubin street. i have NO interest walking bourbin street. none. we all have kids. i have no interest taking my kids and nieces and nephews on bourbin street. i have not heard one person say bourbin street was appropriate for kids.

ALL the fuckin things to do, and this is it.

i want to hit garden district one of the days. also doing civil war and wwII musuem, and tour of cemetery that my oldest son wont do. he has always felt stuff around cemeteries and he wont go. lol. i want to.

but, we are leaving early and my family and i will have a day or two in the area to do what we want. what do we have to do, just have to do in this area that we are missing out on. i kinda want to get a feel of the swamp area.... cause that is always what i read in books. but anything you want to point out?

[KamaAina]

21. Mom and I love the Bienville House!

It's on Decatur, second block in from Canal. This makes it easy to get on a streetcar or Magazine St. bus and see the rest of the city -- well worth your while.

[seabeyond]

95. i decided to make a thread, and i have gotten so much wonderful info

i am actually getting excited about it now. i have had a few tell me about this area.

[Sgent]

35. IMHO... and I live in New Orleans, am single, and do go there

I would NOT take kids to bourbon street. STOP.

Bourbon street (esp after dark) is an adult area, and there is nothing for kids to do, nor that they want or should be involved in.

Although I would have no problem crossing the street or anything, I just isn't an appropriate place for those under 18.

[seabeyond]

93. i was hearing this consistently from so many people. du made me think otherwise.

my oldest son says, he doesnt wanna walk the street with his nanna. ya know. lol. more comfortable with that shit with mom than nana, problably than dad, girl cousins and his papa who will poke his ribs and make a stupid sexist comment.

since you are so familiar with it, when we walk to dinner toward broussard, we will be on the corner where hustler is. is that a bet more into the street. this will be well into night before we come home.

thanks for info. more prepared i am, more i wont be taken by surprised and react in mouth and anger, lol.

[Mimosa]

121. Bourbon Street is not appropriate for kiddies

It's all tourist bars and T shirt shops.

The kids and intelligent adults would love the Audubon Zoo, the Aquarium or a Swamp Boat tour around the Jean Lafitte National Park on the west bank (not far away across the river). There's good history involved. :)

Swamp tours:

http://www.neworleansonline.com/directory/location.php?locationID=1755

Restaurant des Familles is very nice, a family restaurant on the West bank near the swamp tour company. Check their good reviews. :)

http://www.desfamilles.com/

[seabeyond]

124. thanks for giving

it to me straight mimosa. i have been hearing conflicting comments. but the three people that live/lived there agree with you

[librechik]

178. we stayed at the Clarion Grand Boutique on St Charles on Halloween wknd

right across from the trolley, easy to get everywhere and attached to a wonderful Cheesecake Bistro--also Walgreens one block up

Frenchman street was wonderful--easy to reach from the trolley, just over a block from Decatur street--we liked the Spotted Cat

Don't eat at Commander's Palace very g famous and overrated, same thing with Deena's--we loved Zia Grill on St Charles, delicious barbecue and vegetarian Mediterranean

[Hardrada]

74. You know, that's a good idea.

I like the NOLA bookshops, some nice antiquarian ones I do business in. They come and go but I can always find some. I should try a Christmas trip there. Like about everything else there too.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

101. Technically I was not a tourist. I was taking my child to college.

[BlueMTexpat]

8. My husband and I visited NOLA in 2007, specifically

to see that once-(and perhaps sometime in the future)great American city (we had never been before) - and one that still, even despite Katrina and Rethug policies deliberately to scatter its population far and wide - retains its own unique identity. I heart those courageous souls who still live and work there very much!

There is so much about Louisiana's history that is unique, graceful and more inclusive of different races, religions and cultures than in many other areas of the US. In fact, if one visits some of the early French-style plantations, as we did, and learns their histories, one realizes that they often were more environmentally friendly than those built later by "the English," as native Louisianans often referred to their new owners. I have often wondered whether in some parallel universe, if the French had won the French and Indian wars instead of the British or if later on, Napoleon hadn't become a megalomaniac and sold the Louisiana Purchase to the US to finance his European wars - assuming that there was a US at all because the Brits may just have licked their wounds and left after losing the F & I Wars - we later generations might not have been better off than we have since turned out to be. We'll never know.

The French Quarter itself was built in an area of NOLA that the French had recognized (no slouches as engineers) would be less affected by periodic flooding, which is one reason why it has suffered much less damage over the centuries than other areas where ill-considered development was allowed to run amok.

We specifically took one of the Ghost Tours and loved every moment! I did feel some "juju" but it was all good. IMO, you are biased against NOLA. Or against "juju." Or NOLA's "juju" didn't particularly care for you.

[hlthe2b]

9. For Europeans, NOLA and San Francisco tend to be the two key cities...

that seem to be historically and culturally important. I can see that, having spent some considerable time in Europe, Asia and the Middle East.

Yes, NOLA is a city of excesses and puts those excesses on full public display, but one hardly has to delve too deep within most US cities to see the same (or "worse," depending on your POV). The music is integral to NOLA culture and one does not get much of the music without the accompanying factors, which includes the bars and sometimes the seedier side of the culture. Does one get jazz from the 1920s without the Speak Easys, Big Band music without the pain of the depression and resiliency post WWII? Rap without the devastation and violence/pain of minorities in the inner cities? I think you miss a critical human factor that creates the culture. One certainly need be nothing more than a spectator to the excesses, but to understand the history and culture, you really can not sanitize it.

My sister never feels more alive than she does in NOLA and she does not drink alcohol, smoke nor partake of any of the other vices, sans the music, history and atmosphere. The entire myriad of culture and history--both good and bad "JUJU" as you will--

I don't know where you are from, but I would be curious how much you have traveled...:shrug:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

72. You think if I haven't traveled a lot I must be "narrow minded" to not like the French Quarter.

Not all of it. Just the bars and voodoo shops and strip clubs.

I don't gamble either so you must think I'm a real fuddy duddy.

[Withywindle]

143. Do you even know what "voodoo" really is?

It's a RELIGION. It's a New World religion that is a product of various West African faiths that were brought over by Africans who were trafficked in the slave trade. Africans and their descendants in the New World passed what they could on to their children, and in Catholic places like New Orleans and Haiti and most of Latin America, syncretized with veneration of the saints, and also with some Native American folkways to create something new (and ever-growing and ever-learning).

In past centuries, it's mostly been practiced by people of color and/or the poor, so Of COURSE it's been caricatured and denigrated and portrayed in pop culture as "creepy" horror-movie fodder in all sorts of racist, classist ways, and OF COURSE it's on display for the tourists as something exotic associated with NOLA...but the reality is a lot more interesting and important than that. If you feel that it's inherently BAD juju....that is simply your own lack of knowledge and respect being reflected back to you.

edit: If I thought you disliked the "voodoo" shops for the tourists on a basis of cultural appropriation and gross commercialization, I think I might find a place to agree with you. But I get the impression you think they're "bad juju" because voodoo itself is inherently "bad juju." If I'm wrong, please correct me.

[Uben]

10. Nawlins is great! Especially the French Quarter!

Yeah, there are some seedy joints, but they just lend to the mystique of New Orleans. If you stop and visit with some of the people, you would see that what you deem "bad juju" is just your overactive imagination. I love N.O.! I like the food, I like the entertainment, and I like the people. Just thinkin about it makes me wanna go right now. You can't just see N.O., you have to "do" it......participate!

MAybe more cow-bell would change your mind.

[a la izquierda]

11. You know, this is a little ridiculous.

I think you're broad brushing people who drink and people who work in and/or hang out in bars. There are people, myself and my friends (university professors) included, who appreciate fine wine, beer, and spirits, *and* can find the beauty in ballet, art, political discussion, and culture.

I *DON'T* think negative spirits hang out in bars any more than they hang out in churches, old buildings, etc. You DO realize that you were in a city that's several hundred years old, right? I'd hate for you to walk around Mexico City- the negative energy from millions of dead Indians would really do you in.
(For full disclosure, I can't remember the last time I got drunk, and I HAVE seen a ghost, so I am anti-drunk and not anti-juju or whatever you want to call it).

[WolverineDG]

12. I think you have hang-ups about alcohol

I don't drink either, but I love NOLA & the French Quarter. There's way more to it than bar-crawling on Bourbon Street.

dg

[Mimosa]

13. Video of Celebration in the Oaks (in NOLA's City Park)

From Nov. 25th through Jan 2nd, iirc, Celebration in the Oaks is a wonderful festival of lights.

Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YTqHPJJsFo&feature=player_embedded

Manifestor of Light, I know you may get a feeling of bad vibes in some places but that can happen any place. I can't possibly overstress that the way residents of a city live their daily lives is very different from how tourists briefly visiting may experience a place based upon what they choose to visit. The Audubon Zoo is one of the nation's best zoos. The French Quarter festival during the 3rd week in April is a heck of a fun weekend. It's about good food and music, not drunkenness. ;)

Of course there are occasional haints. I came across haints in Santa Fe. :7

[seabeyond]

15. yea. we are going to be there on the 25th. Emeril’s NOLA for 6:45 pm

i have an itinerary. lol. ah ha... :rofl: so where are the lights. is it walkable from Emerils? i would LOVE to walk in this at night after dinner in our "fancy" clothes, lol. no attitude on my part.

[Mimosa]

17. Not walkable from Emeril's

City Park is about 4.2 miles away, towards the 'Lake'. Emeril's, as you know, is in the Arts district near the River. (And part of the way would be through a bad section of Esplanade Avenue)

So, if you're renting a car, you'd need to drive. Or take a taxi. :D

I used to love walking through City park, day or night. New Orleans Museum of Art is located in City Park (near the old 'Dueling Oaks). It has a an underrated diverse collection well worth viewing for serious art lovers.

[seabeyond]

18. excellent. we are driving in. everyone else is flying in. we will have a car.

i don't know anything about NO, which makes it more difficult. so emerils is in the art district (didnt know there was an art district) near the river. that sounds like a good place to wander on friday night after dinner.

but now i really want to go to city park. lol

[Mimosa]

117. It definitely is a nice walk along the river.

Just be as watchful as you'd be in any other city. :D

If you have time magazine street on a saturday is a lot of fun. Bayou Coquille (where lafitte's pirates were baed on the West Bank) on a Saturday or Sunday is an interesting trip not far from the city. A 'swamp tour' can be fun without the risk of getting lost. The Fleming Cemetery (viewable from a boat) is spooky. It is really haunted. I'm not kidding. ;)

[seabeyond]

123. i want to do a swamp tour. lol. nt

[Mimosa]

126. Here's a good one.

I've taken this one, twice:

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Review-g40098-d620405-Reviews-Louisiana_Swamp_Tours-Crown_Point_Louisiana.html


BTW, if you end up having no time to get out of the city proper, don't miss touring Gallier House and the Hermann Grima homes in the french Quarter. They show how people lived a long time ago. You see the old homes from the insides. :)

Best cheap places to eat: Acme Oyster House, of course. And Masperos's on Decatur Street. Port of Call on Esplanade, too. Burgers and pizzas to die for! Kids love it, not touristy.

Cute shops, non rip-off 'Hemline' (Chartres) and a place on Chartre with local designers. HOVE Parfumeurs on Royal, of course!!! Beckham's books is full of great books at low prices and will mail 'em home for you! (N'awlins is a great book town.)

More info:

http://www.neworleansonline.com/neworleans/fq/fqshopping/fqshopping.html

http://www.shophemline.com/

My fave French Quarter restaurant is Irene's. Haven't been there in years, though my friends say it's still good. Secret to not waiting: subtly palm the Maitre D' a 20 or more. Old fashioned guys always do that. ;)

Sea Beyond, I hope you have a ball! You've chosen a great time to visit NOLA.

[KamaAina]

96. One branch of the Canal streetcar goes to City Park

not that frequently, though, so check here:

http://www.norta.com

[Mimosa]

120. I envy you!

I don't even like desserts but Emeril's Banana Cream Pie is to die for!

Of course skip salads and get yourself a gumbo! :D

[fishwax]

52. very cool -- I hope to see that this year

:kick:

[lolly]

63. Thanks for the preview

Going to be in NOLA after Christmas this year. Can't wait to see this in person.

[sufrommich]

16. You know what Stevie Wonder said about superstition.

Yeah that.

[CreekDog]

19. When we were in the French Quarter, they were offering deals on their $3 beer

2 for $6.

[piratefish08]

24. but was it a Huge Ass Beer To Go?

[KamaAina]

22. You need to get off Bourbon St. and get on to the side streets.

Much better vibes on St. Louis, Toulouse, St. Peter, etc. as well as Chartres. You already described Royal to a T. :-)

In my experience most of the "bad vibe" stuff is confined to Bourbon. Who needs the human zoo, anyway?

[Mimosa]

118. Locals have always avoided Bourbon Street. n/t

[librechik]

23. with me the problem was the clouds of cigarette smoke the clubs were emitting.

Otherwise, I found New Orleans to be a sweet and well intentioned town trying to live up and down to its reputation at the same time. Bad vibes? look within.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. I absolutely LOVED our visit and am an awful mom because I let

my son walk down Bourbon Street at night. :)

We stayed at the Hotel Dauphine and some good friends, who are also DUers, showed us around the city.

Since you asked, it might be worth a shot to visit with a therapist to see what motivates your feelings.

[stuntcat]

27. lol, no

This is funny though! And to each their own and stuff :thumbsup: :hi:

We spent a few days there (in 2006 I think?) and we had a good feeling, everywhere people were smiley and helpful! We'll go back someday before too long I hope.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

51. To be fair, what right-minded person would like a thing after learning it has bad juju?

It could be working the other way.

[Matariki]

67. +1

[REP]

131. And no reaction to the Cabildo.

Probably doesn't know what it was used for.

[EFerrari]

29. No.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

30. I don't think avoiding a known poison is unhealthy.

I don't think avoiding a substance which almost destroyed my family of origin, is unhealthy.

My dad was an alcoholic and mom threatened to leave him when I was a baby, back in the 1950s. He stopped drinking cold turkey and Mom stayed.

Father often told me I was LUCKY because I don't like alcohol. He said "I love the stuff" but he stopped drinking anyway, to save his family.

The prior thread was about people mentioning alcohol in a non-social setting.

I was out in the yard with a glass of tea and the man supervising the people working in my yard said "Oh no vodka?" and I said "No I don't drink. I don't like the stuff."

The second one was a man at a party in my yard and I was drinking milk and he came up and said "Is that a pina colada?" and looked shocked when I said I didn't drink.


The third incident was a couple of weeks ago where I went to a new doctor, am talking to him in the examining room, and he brings up Jack Daniels??? What the hell does this have to do with anything?

This county was completely dry until a couple of years ago. They sell beer and wine in the convenience stores but I don't know if the county seat has a free standing off-premises consumption liquor store. In Texas you can only buy distilled stuff from a free standing privately owned liquor store.

Are these people all heavy drinkers and nobody knows it? There are no bars that I know of in the county seat. There are no bars in the little town I live in. It aggravates me that they bring it up in a work setting. It's almost as aggravating as the nosy xtians that are so very worried about my church going habits. You see churches everywhere but no bars.

:shrug: :wtf:

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. As I stated in your other thread, I think you think about it a little bit

too much. Please don't take this the wrong way but this thread, combined with the other, makes me think you have an unhealthy obsession with being aggravated by an unhealthy obsession. Given your family history, therapy might help you.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

37. OTHER people are bringing up alcohol in a business setting.

They're the ones that are commenting on my non-alcohol drinking, and I don't want to have to explain myself. It is not any of their business.

I don't think I need therapy. OTHER PEOPLE bring it up. I don't.

Avoiding a known poison is healthy. OK?? I don't mind if other people drink. That is their choice. If they want to kill themselves with it, they can. It's their right.

What sort of therapy do I need? You want I should start drinking alcohol? I won't do that.

I've never heard of therapy to make someone pro-alcohol or pro-drinking. I thought there were thousands or millions of people trying to stop drinking.

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. See, you took it the wrong way and that was not my intent.

I don't drink. But I also don't post threads about not drinking and having a problem with telling people that I don't. My concern was that you followed up the other thread with this one. I was honestly concerned about you. I didn't say you need therapy to become pro-alcohol, I merely suggested that therapy might help you come to terms with why you are a little bit fixated on it. It should not bother you to simply say, "I don't drink" to another person. :shrug:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

60. Please read posts #20 and #30. I have the right to talk about anything I want to.

As I have repeated several times here, OTHER PEOPLE were bringing up alcohol when I was drinking a non-alcoholic beverage. They brought it up, I didn't. I can only conclude that they are heavy drinkers, assume everybody else gets drunk every weekend like they do, and are uncomfortable around non-drinkers in a work setting.

I don't like explaining myself when OTHER PEOPLE bring up alcohol. They are the ones that think about it. They brought it up in a work setting. I did not bring it up.

I don't think about it until they brought it up.

:shrug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

61. I was showing concern for you. I didn't say you didn't have the right to

say anything. Your reactions to us are a bit over the top. Like really over the top. Are you okay? I am serious, not teasing. I'm worried about you.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

68. To quote you:

"I don't drink. But I also don't post threads about not drinking and having a problem with telling people that I don't."

That sounds like you have a problem with my posting threads about my problem, which is OTHER PEOPLE bringing up alcohol. I don't have a problem with not drinking, the people who bring it up like I am supposed to be drinking alcohol, have a problem with it when they ask me about it. I don't like having to explain myself.

I don't mention it, THEY do.

[ScreamingMeemie]

77. It sounded, to me, like it bothered you a bit more than it bothers the

average person. I don't assume when people say something about alcohol to me, that they think I'm supposed to be drinking. I think it's just passing comments. I really and truly do. There is nothing in what you quoted that proves otherwise. It wouldn't cross my mind to be irritated enough to post about something so commonplace. :shrug:


Edited for poor choice of words.

[Mimosa]

137. Manifestor of Light, at least 5 of my dear friends do not drink alcohol

I lived in NOLA for over 18 years.

After we moved there some friends and family from other cities visited annually. Free place to stay while they enjoyed Jazz Festival in late April through early May. At least 2 of my friends -a couple- just didn't imbibe. They were 'high on life.' And they managaged to visit jazz clubs and enjoy music more than most without ever drinking anything but Pepsi or iced Celestial Seasonings teas.

Actually New Mexico has a higher rate of DUIs than Louisiana. Louisiana locals probably do less 'binge drinking' than tourists because of the Catholic/French/Italian culture which has always been tolerant of alcohol, especially wine with our foods. :D

[TNLib]

32. Never been to New Orleans but I love old bars with Jazz music

I love really strong drinks that often get served in those kind of bars and not the water downed crap you get served at restaurant chains or trendy college bars.
love shops that sell esoteric items so I imagine I would love the french quarter.

I hate those stupid expensive art galleries and trendy upscale restaurants they're basically for douche bags.

I consider myself a fairly open minded positive person but I enjoy establishment with character far more than I enjoy douche richie rich establishments.

[Fla_Democrat]

33. 'Stay away from the voodoo, Mon'

Vol'jin.









:smoke:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. How many centimes is that?

:shrug:

[Stuckinthebush]

36. If you expect to find spirits and bad juju then you'll find them

They are all in your head.

Relax and enjoy the many different aspects of life. A strip club and beer every now and then can be interesting. An art gallery can be a soul sucking experience.

[JanMichael]

38. not in the French Quarter, but in another town

in NC. Not a tourist area-- horrible vibes. Wife unable to drive down certain streets vibes. I know exactly what you are saying.

[MorningGlow]

40. I understand what you're saying, MoL

New Orleans is one of my favorite places in the world; Mr. MG and I used to go there every year (business trips for him and I tagged along) before MG Jr. was born. I have spent a great deal of time in the Quarter as well as the Garden District and Magazine Street. We've trolled everywhere from the cigar bar at the Ritz on Canal to the residential streets of the Quarter to a real seafood restaurant (newspaper as tablecloths, rolls of paper towels on the tables) in a nontouristy area (Mr. MG's clients took us). So I know some parts of the city well, other parts less so.

I would hazard a guess that what you're picking up (the "bad juju" and "good juju") is not so much the energy of an establishment, but instead the energy that the clientele is putting out. Well, and the intent of the business, of course. What I mean is, sure, if you visit the tourist bars on Bourbon Street, you're going to pick up the energy of the tourists who want to get stinkin' drunk very fast. If you go by the strip clubs...well. You know. Both of those = hedonistic, let's-get-stupid-we're-on-vacation juju. Not everybody, but a lot of the people. And then again, if you visit the more sedate tourist attractions, you'll pick up on more positive and peaceful energy of people interested in the city's history, or the arts, or what have you. Likewise, if you visit a neighborhood bar far away from Bourbon Street, you'll find the energy much different; I doubt the proprietors and the regulars would put up with the crap that goes on on Bourbon Street.

So I'd recommend separating the intent of the patrons from the actual energy of the place, and you'll fare much better. And if bars and such bother you a lot, just avoid them. Like someone said upthread, don't go on Bourbon Street. There's so much more to NoLa than that particular road.

Oh yeah--and regarding the voodoo shops--voudun is a very old, very respectable belief system; it's what people ascribe to it (incorrectly) that gives it the bad rep. However, I don't doubt that people carrying bad juju are attracted to the voodoo shops in NoLa and they go in there looking for incorrect items to aid their incorrect dabbling. I always found it fascinating that hardly anyone visited the Voodoo Museum to learn correct practices, but thronged the voodoo shops like Rev. Zombie's House of Voodoo. Says a lot about what people really want to know (or not know, as the case may be).

[Manifestor_of_Light]

44. Thank you. Not going back.

An old friend of mine who went to college at Dillard University, which is a very good school, said she didn't like living there.

I don't think voodoo is good because I don't believe in putting curses on people. Bad karma will come back, eventually, somehow, I think.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. You really know nothing about Voodoo.

How sad for you!

[musette_sf]

86. + 1

(I lived in NO for awhile... it called to me, it spoke to me. I think people bring their own "bad juju" with them, personally.)

[Behind the Aegis]

87. and I will +1 your comment, as well! I totally agree.

[Matariki]

107. +1000

[MorningGlow]

48. I think you're working from the Hollywood version of voudun

You should read up on it more--it's really a wonderful faith.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

57. Sacrificing chickens and putting curses on people is "a wonderful faith"??

What are you smoking, pray tell???

Putting curses on people is bad karma.

That has a lot more in common with christianity than with other religions.

[MorningGlow]

58. Oh dear

Please read more about it.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

69. I've read more about it. Sounds like superstitious primitive crap to me.

[Behind the Aegis]

76. All religions are, including the "new age" ones.

Are you just as biased against them?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

79. Yes, I have little respect for most religions.

Especially if they are cruel and non-rational. Especially the Abrahamic ones.

Can't stand new age space cadets, have no respect for pagans since that was pulled out of Gerald Gardner's rear in the 20th century. That was manufactured in the 20th century.

Only rational philosophies I have found are Buddhism and secular humanism.

[Behind the Aegis]

80. You really have no clue, do you?

"Paganism" wasn't pulled out of anyone's butt. It is older than all organized religions. Wicca, however, is a newly formed religion created by Gardner. It seems you are quite biased against religion and, likely, spirituality.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

81. If you're happy with your spiritual path i am fine with that.

You're going too far assuming that I am against spirituality.

[Behind the Aegis]

82. That is why I said "likely." Good to know your bias has limits.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

83. Religions do not get a pass for doing horrible things in the name of religion.

That is what Christopher Hitchens says about religion and I agree with him.

"Men never do evil so efficiently and cheerfully as when they do it in the name of religion."

---Blaise Pascal

[Behind the Aegis]

84. Who said religions "get a pass?" That's your strawman.

[LanternWaste]

94. Which are also part and parcel of the overall concept of

"Only rational philosophies I have found are Buddhism and secular humanism...."

Which are also part and parcel of the overall concept of "magic thinking". But I imagine we rationalize those things we want to, and dismiss and minimize the rest...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

104. Buddhism and secular humanism are not "magical thinking".

Buddhism is atheist if you want it to be. Merely a philosophy of life. Doesn't talk about heaven or the afterlife.

Secular humanism is atheist and rational too.

[Mimosa]

140. You don't seem to know much about Buddhism either. MoL.

Buddhism has at least 3 sects major sects. And in at least one with which I am familiar (Tibetan Buddhism) the doctrine allows for heaven, hell and demonic influences, even exorcisms. Some Buddhists do 'spiritual cleansing' and healings which are similar to what's practiced in Santeria, only afaik they don't sacrifice pigeons, chickens or goats. But some Buddhits in the 'folksier' sub-sects do believe in curses and such.

Good info on Tibetan Buddhism:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tibet/understand/bon.html


Some 'folksier' old style Jews had arcane beliefs too. Who do you think came up with the evil eye and all that stuff? :7

[Manifestor_of_Light]

145. I am not into Tibetan buddhism.

I do not believe in the spirits and hungry ghosts of Buddhism.

Other people may, I don't.

[NeedleCast]

109. Would You Care To Explain The Difference Between "Ju-Ju" and Religion?

[Matariki]

110. I invite you to do a little research before speaking so ignorantly

First, there are other religions that make sacrifices, including Islam and Hinduism, and like those religions the animals are eaten by the community. So unless you are a vegan who condemns anyone ever eating meat, the argument against sacrificing chickens is ignorant and hypocritical.

Second, 'cursing people' is not part of the religion any more than it is part of Wicca or mainstream Christianity praying to harm their 'enemies'.

Third, Vodou in the Americas and the Caribbean comes from the oldest existing religion on the planet - Benin Vodou, which has been in continuous practice for a minimum of 6000 years, probably longer. While it's a minority religion, it is a authentic world religion with many followers.

You may be anti-religion, there certainly many people on DU who are, but to single out one of the African Traditional Religions as 'primitive' and 'evil' is either ignorant or racist or both.


https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/West_African_Vodun
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Haitian_Vodou
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Louisiana_Voodoo

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Eid_ul-Adha
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Animal_Sacrifice_in_Hinduism

[Manifestor_of_Light]

62. This is for Seabeyond. Skip Galveston. The beaches are dirty.

One third of the population left after Hurricane Ike blew away The Balinese Room, an old restaurant/bar/former gambling den.

The beaches are brown, the water is brown and full of seaweed. I grew up in Houston and laughed at the people who thought the beach was good in Galveston. The good beaches are in Florida and California.

You will have a lot more fun in Austin and San Antonio. I went to college in San Antonio and there is lots to do and see, the Alamo, in the middle of downtown, the Riverwalk, Mi Tierra on West Commerce, and lots of places near Hemisfair. Also there is Fiesta Texas and Sea World.

Don't bother with Galveston if you don't have time. There is fun stuff in Houston, but if you're going to Austin and the Hill Country you will have fun.

[ScreamingMeemie]

70. Galveston can be fun, as is Kemah.

I'll take the Houston area over Austin any day. San Antonio is awesome to visit, but it gets old after awhile.

[fishwax]

41. I felt plenty of good vibes -- in bars and out of them

New Orleans (both the French Quarter and elsewhere) is a beautiful city.

[Oilwellian]

42. What you see in others...

is a reflection of yourself.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

43. I don't go in bars and drink myself sick. What a stupid statement.

No way it's a reflection of me.

[fishwax]

53. neither do most people who go in bars (even in New Orleans)

although I'm sure it's more common on Bourbon Street than elsewhere.

Of course, the French Quarter is much more than Bourbon Street, and New Orleans is much more than the French Quarter :)

[Zebedeo]

45. You were not imagining it.

My wife refuses to go back to New Orleans after our trip there in the early 90s. We were menaced by evil spirits the whole weekend. We went there not really believing in ghosts but ever since that trip, we both believe in them. We saw them, felt them, experienced them vividly.

We stayed in a bed and breakfast that was an antebellum era brownstone just outside the French Quarter. The border of the French Quarter was literally across the street from the B&B. Our room was haunted by the ghosts of slaves who had died there. There were many events that occurred over the course of this one weekend. They included the following:

1. Items moving from the refrigerator into the freezer and back without either my wife's or my involvement.
2. Lightbulbs repeatedly unscrewing themselves.
3. A wardrobe door unlocking itself and then opening, repeatedly.
4. A ghost in the approximate location of the wardrobe door, visible only in the mirror that was across the room.
5. My wife and I both fell asleep in the middle of the day, only to wake up and find that the room had filled with natural gas.
6. A stack of old newspapers that I was looking through on Sunday morning (before we had opened the door to our room). As I looked through the stack, I was astonished to find, halfway down the stack and in between two old papers - today's paper!)
7. One of the stories in one of the old newspapers was about the house of Madame Delphine LaLaurie. It described how she and her physician husband had kept slaves in their New Orleans home and how they had tortured them and used them in ghastly medical experiments.
8. While walking around the French Quarter, I was suddenly immobilized by a terrible pain in one of my Achilles tendons. It was not a normal pain, but a debilitating agony that made taking one more step impossible. I stayed there while my wife went to get help. After a few minutes, the pain completely went away.
9. We went to Marie Laveau's House of Voodoo, and considered buying an "evil stay away gator toe," but decided against it.
10. My wife wanted to switch to a modern hotel, but I didn't want to, because the bed and breakfast was prepaid.
11. On the plane when we were waiting to take off to go home, it was discovered that a man seated across the aisle from us and one row up was dead. The man was traveling alone. When the paramedics came, they could not find any i.d. on him. He was dressed in a business suit. He had no wallet. The only thing in his pockets was a business card from a funeral home.
12. After we arrived at the Memphis airport to change planes, and as we were waiting for our flight to board, an African man walked by us. He was dressed in a business suit and was carrying a large spear. A real one. In the airport. He stared menacingly at us. We to this day have no idea how this man was allowed to have a spear in the airport.

There were other events. My wife counted more than 20 of them and wrote them down. We have not been back to New Orleans since, and my wife refuses to ever go there again.

[flamingdem]

88. Wow! I love the spear part. You're a good storyteller

I am not saying it's not true, I believe in every word!

Don't mess with voodoo or hoodoo imo

[Zebedeo]

90. Thank you.

It is all 100% true. And there was more. I just don't remember everything. This happened almost 20 years ago. BTW I was born in New Orleans.

Best voodoo movie I have seen is The Serpent and the Rainbow. Have you seen it?

[flamingdem]

91. I saw it years ago and read the book and then..

I went to Cuba and worked with a Haitian descendant priest, it happened by accident that I met him through a friend and that lead to more study about Voodoo or Vodou as it's known as well. I witnessed and went through many phenomenon. For example on leaving a ceremony we were told by an elder not to go and that if we did our car would break down. This is because the "rule" was no one leaves until 6am from this kind of ceremony. Guess what happened, the wheel literally flew off the car leaving us stranded.

My intuition flashed a tad regarding your being born in New Orleans, maybe the spirits were attracted due to some other complexity regarding you being from there. I think when these phenomenon happen there are many factors, place - time - identity - ability - openness on a psychic level - that have to come together.

There's a lot that we don't know about things -- and the Africans in particular those from Benin seemed to have a better handle on it. The Haitians are largely from Benin, a very magical culture from what I have read. The bad reputation comes from history making these groups the lowest rung on society, and they fought back in their way. In Cuba for instance the negative black magic label goes to the Haitians and the Palo Monte practioners - Palo is from the Angola what was Congo region - and those slaves were treated the worst and the Nigerians were treated better and their religion suffers less criticism. (It's all called Santeria essentially, or brujeria from those who dislike it all). I know less about the history of New Orleans and need to go there again and research.

I recommend this book that deals with voodoo / hoodoo in the USA and New Orleans as well as other areas:
http://www.amazon.com/Flash-Spirit-African-Afro-American-Philosophy/dp/0394723694

also:
Cosentino, Donald, ed. Sacred Arts of Haitian Vodou. Los Angeles: UCLA Fowler Museum, 1995.

[Zebedeo]

105. Thanks.

for the reply and the link to that book. It definitely looks interesting.

[Matariki]

115. That Donald Cosentino book is wonderful

The exhibit it was created for was *really* wonderful. It was at the Museum of Natural History in NY in the late 90's and traveled to other museums. It started me on my own path the included initiating into the religion.

[ScreamingMeemie]

98. "The Serpent and the Rainbow" scared the bejeebus out of me.

[Zebedeo]

106. Yeah, very realistic

and scary.

[smokey nj]

49. I disagree, totally.

New Orleans is one of my favorite cities.

[tawadi]

50. Good music, great food, people having fun

Guess it all depends on how a person views life.

:shrug:

[ceile]

54. Um.....no.... n/t

[SidDithers]

55. I hope we still have a "Crazy Woo" forum on DU3...nt

Sid

[Book Lover]

112. Word (nm)

[Bennyboy]

56. I like to dance with bad juju (Gris Gris)

from time to time.

[DefenseLawyer]

59. Bourbon Street is a place for tourists to get drunk

But thanks for sharing. I guess.

[Cresent City Kid]

64. The Quarter is diverse, good and bad vibes to be had

Royal Street seems like more your style than Bourbon Street. Outside the Quarter, Magazine Street has some good antique shops, just not as close together. I'm not telling you to go to New Orleans or not, but if you're there, avoid Bourbon St., you're not missing anything unless your team just won the Super Bowl, but I'm guessing that's not your bag.

I grew up in New Orleans and lived there until Katrina. I know the feelings you're talking about from the bars there, but it's the sleazy side of human nature, not something supernatural going on.

[Matariki]

66. Voodoo is part of the history and culture of New Orleans

I think calling it "bad juju" is a biased and ignorant. And bars? Really?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

71. Voodoo looks like a pile of superstitious primitive crap to me.

I've been reading up on it.

[LeftyMom]

73. But you believe in "vibes."

Pot, meet kettle.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

75. They were my gut feelings. That's all I know.

My gut feelings are a long way from voodoo.

Why don't you start telling me what a failure I am as a mother because I had a c-section and according to you, since you're an expert on childbirth, NOBODY ever needs a C-section unless they have a "deformed pelvis" to quote you????? I do not have a deformed pelvis and I am not a failure as a mother.

That operation saved my life.

[jberryhill]

97. By all means DO NOT visit the Vatican

[tawadi]

103. lololol

:rofl:

[newspeak]

173. yeah, there are parts of spain, germany and italy

you wouldn't want to visit either, especially all of those ghosts from the inquisition. Some of the most sick, gruesome tortures--I read that whole towns would flee when they heard the inquisition was coming. Sacrificing a chicken is nothing compared to sacrificing thousands of people.

Hubby and I visited NOLA before Katrina. My niece, at the time, lived in Metairie. Loved the historic atmosphere. Visited one of the oldest bars in the US-belonged to Jean Lafeyette (wasn't a bar at the time). Went into the voodoo shop-didn't feel any particular vibe. Walked around and visited the antique shops, quite interesting.

NOLA is a very old city with a rich past.

[Matariki]

111. It's one of the African Traditional Religions. The oldest on the planet.

Maybe you think Africans are "primitive" and superstitious"?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

113. Zoroastrianism is the oldest religion on the planet.

The national religion of Persia. Iran. The Shah of Iran promoted it as part of national pride. It's ten thousand years old.

Hinduism is also ten thousand years old or more.

A lot of religions have "like attracts like" and "sympathetic magic". Like burning a green candle to attract money, for a simple example. These are concepts in many religions.

And if they are superstitious, I don't want anything to do with them. I don't care how old they are.

[Matariki]

114. Not that it matters but your facts are off

Very early Hinduism is dated anywhere from 5500 to 2600 BCE. Zoroastrianism's origins are only dated back to the early 2000s BCE. Benin/West African Vodou (or Vodun, still practiced today) is thought to originate at the latest 4000 BCE and possibly as old as 15,000 years.

I'd suggest learning more and perhaps examining your own heart to see where your prejudice lies.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

116. I will not take seriously any religion that curses its enemies and is not factually based.

I stand by my assertion that Buddhism and secular humanism are the only rationally based philosophies of living I know about.

[Mimosa]

119. I bet you haven't read American Voudou by Rod Davis

I have known genuine practitioners of the Yoruba religion. Practiced by true believers, not as an 'act' for turistas Voudou is not a scam.

Reverend Lorita Williams, now Gamble, is a close friend, and was for years. Her story is in Rod Davis book:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Voudou-Journey-Hidden-World/dp/1574410814

The real Voudou is not all about 'cursing enemies' and voodoo dolls.

"Faces of the Gods: Art and Altars of Africa and the African Americas" by Robert Farris Thompson is a very informative scholarly book primarily about voudou:

http://www.amazon.com/Face-Gods-Altars-African-Americas/dp/3791312812

[Manifestor_of_Light]

122. I see no need to bother reading about superstitious irrational religions.

[Mimosa]

128. To understand Gullah country, Haiti or New Orleans one has to at least know something...

Of African American Culture.

So, you're not a scholar. We get you. Not everybody needs to know arcane facts about old cultures and history. *yawning*

[Manifestor_of_Light]

129. Oh I'm not a scholar. Wonderful insult.

I have three college degrees including a doctorate.

[Mimosa]

132. Sorry if you thought I was insulting you.

Manifestor of Light, I did not mean to insult you. I'm sorry you perceived my comment that way.

You have an odd way of continuing to deride folk religions and their believers, several of whom are good friends.

Voudoun mambos and houngans served as counselors, even psychotherapists, to slaves and later black people who did not have access to advanced specialists.

I have seen firsthand sincere voudou practitioners in their roles as helpers to those in their community who needed advice and help in family situations. My friend Rev Gamble had helped people overcome addictions, help single mothers relate to their children better, become better parents.

Spiritual growth is part of real voudoun.

I've also witnessed the negativity of the fakers and the show biz aspect of the 'voodoo tarot card' readers (one is semi-famous and white) who are well known in New Orleans.

My comments to you, manifester of light, were merely because you keep denigrating a faith tradition you seem to know nothing about.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

135. Read #122.

If it's superstitious irrational crap I will not waste my time reading about it.

This includes the Christian Bible, and the Koran as well.

[Withywindle]

147. OK, you don't have to read about it if you don't want to.

You can even still spout off about your opinions of those traditions if you want to, while people who actually know something about them will point and laugh. No one will ~censor~ you, you'll just come off like one of those fundies railing about Dungeons & Dragons or Harry Potter or heavy metal while making it obvious he has no knowledge whatsoever of what any of those things are really like or about. That's OK. You can do that.


But going on about the "bad vibes" at the same time? Really? As if that's not also "superstitious irrational crap" to people who have a materialist view of the world?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

152. Those were gut feelings. That is all i know about them.

Gut feelings that made me aware that they were bad places.

My gut feelings are always right. That is all I know about them.

Gut feelings are not superstitious. I can't explain them but they are real bodily feelings.

[Withywindle]

154. GWB was ruled by his "gut feelings" He talked about them all the time

I never doubted that he really felt them, but still...you see where that got us.


Of COURSE religious feelings are "gut feelings." You think voodoo practitioners don't feel the rightness in their guts and are driven by that? Voodoo initiations are damn difficult and demanding; why would anyone do that if not for a strong "gut feeling" that it's right?

People who have superstitious phobias about things like black cats and the number 13 feel them in their bodies. Why do you think that factual information makes no dent, even in very intelligent and intellectual phobic people?

I'm an arachnophobe. I'm also a park ranger's daughter, and I know full well that there are only 2 species of venomous spider in the US that pose a real potential fatality threat to humans, and I know how to identify both of them, and I've only ever encountered one of those 2 species IRL in all my 42 years. The facts don't matter to my superstitious phobia. I freak out at all large spiders. I feel "bad juju" from them. I have bodily feelings at the sight of them. Deep in my body, my hairs raise, I get adrenaline fight-or-flight, I feel irrational fear and hate. Even though I know for a fact they are harmless to me. Even though I believe it's ethically wrong to harm one (I never do; I can't stand to get that close. I sic my cat on them). A "gut feeling" is not inherently valid. Most of our "gut feelings" are really, objectively speaking, kind of stupid. (We hold on to them for the few that are very deep and true, and those also exist.) None are above questioning. Most of them come from conditioning that happened so long ago we don't consciously remember.

[Behind the Aegis]

155. You fucking ROCK!

Laissez les bons temps rouler!!!!

[Withywindle]

160. Merci beaucoup!

Have you ever read 'The Woman in the Dunes' by Kobo Abe? Very existential. Lots of wind-blown sand.


I'm kind of getting that feeling right about now.


Or, as the man in my avatar had it, 'the dust blows forward 'n the dust blows back'


One does what one can, nonetheless.

[Behind the Aegis]

161. I haven't read that book. (seems there is a movie too).

I have to say I was appalled at some of the things said in this thread, but was overjoyed at many of the responses.

I hope you can go to NOLA someday. It really is a wonderful city and your city has direct flights! It can be a real headache to find direct flights to NOLA. And, as FYI, the (I think it is Southwest) run $99 specials to NOLA from Chicago. Keep an eye out.

[Withywindle]

162. It has to do with futility, and going on anyway.

The protagonist goes butterfly-hunting, and finds himself in a village where all labor and existence is bound up in sweeping away the sand that encroaches on the villagers' houses all day every day. Poor, lame summary; the real power of it is in the writing. But it inspired me to want to pitch in and sweep sand sometimes, even though I know it's coming back in the morning. I'm sure you can see the relevance here.


I know there are good flight options to NOLA from Chicago. I even have friends I'd love to visit there who I know would put me up. But I'm in paycheck-to-paycheck mode right now; on the rare occasions I can afford to lose a week's pay (no paid vacation time for me), I really need to use it for my parents in NC. Someday. Someday all our little boats will rise just a little, right?

[Behind the Aegis]

164. Thanks for the info.

And yes, I do see the relevance here. :)

I can understand the paycheck-to-paycheck mode. Fortunately, we are not in that situation...yet. I am trying to manage things closely, but no room for a mistake or fun at this point. My parents are also in NC. Fayetteville.

I do hope you get to go to NOLA someday, it really is a phenomenal city.

[Withywindle]

165. I'll make it happen someday.

I love travel so much, and if I ever come into money, everything I don't give away, I'll spend on GOING PLACES. (I've been lucky enough to get to visit three different continents on the cheap, whether through student deals or family connections, and I would not trade those experiences for anything).

I don't resent people who can afford to travel per se, but I do resent rich people whose idea of "travel" is all about cruise ships and high-end fashion stores. Oh, and also, those who get to go to awesome places, and once they get there, complain about "bad juju" if some cultural elements turn out to be not compatible with the ambience inside their personal space-bubble.


My folks are in Winston-Salem. :hi:

[REP]

150. Is it too late to get a refund?

[flamingdem]

166. Thanks for the book recommendation Mimosa

I didn't know about the Rod Davis book and want to add it to my collection.

I think you saw before my recommendation for Flash of the Spirit by Robert Ferris Thompson?

He has a new one out about the subject of "cool" as well.

[Mimosa]

179. Thanks for your recommendations!

I didn't know about Thompson's newer books. I hope they'll be available at at least library in our system. I own the Altars book.

In NOLA, Italian restaurateurs often have subtle almost hidden altars to St. Joseph and the Christ Child, sometimes the BVM. And the Chinese, Thais and Vietnamese, whether in a nail salon or restaurant, always have Buddhist altars. Asian business people here in ATL have altars too but not as frequently.

Flaming Dem and Sea Beyond, have you seen Robert Sexton's MARVELOUS book of photographs of old houses, and gardens and unique places?

It's titled "New Orleans: Elegance and Decadence". One of the better photo books on NOLA ever published. You can take a peek inside the book at the link, but there are so many magical pictures in it!

http://www.amazon.com/New-Orleans-Decadence-Randolph-Delehanty/dp/0811800741/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321487183&sr=1-2

[6000eliot]

78. The only time I felt bad juju in the French Quarter was when LSU was playing football.

[No Joe]

85. Uh, what?

:/

[musette_sf]

89. No.

Former NO resident here. It called to me, it spoke to me, it felt like HOME immediately, from my first visit in 1971. Finally moved there in 1980, and my time there was glorious.

And for those of you who know what I mean - have a listen to the below linked CD. I always loved Little Queenie & The Percolators, but DAMN, "House Of Secrets" kicks ass, it's so incredibly evocative... Leigh is such a treasure.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/leighharris

And if you want to dig a little deeper, AJ Loria is, like, the Tom Waits of NOLA:

http://www.ajloria.com/jazz/3am.htm

If the above music is too "extremely dissonant" for anyone, well, you'll always have Celine Dion :eyes:

And I do believe you'd feel a whole lot better after a nice lunch at Galatoire's. And a nice cool non-alcoholic beverage at Napoleon House.

Mother's, Upperline, Drago's, the Coffee Pot, Mr B's (an upstart back in my day, now a standard), Mandina's, Mosca's, Casamento's, Brocato's, just a few of my old favorites that are still around.

(As for a city where I got bad vibes and would never go back - FYI I DEFINITELY got bad vibes in San Antonio. Would NEVER go back there again voluntarily. I'd head for Austin instead.)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

100. That is interesting. I went to college in San Antonio.

Lived there three years. Went to Trinity U. and hung out at the music department at Incarnate Word as well.

[NeedleCast]

108. LOL

Can't be srs...

[RebelOne]

125. I was only in the French Quarter once

and that was during the World's Fair back in the '80s. It was an interesting experience and I did not feel any bad vibes.

[MrScorpio]

127. Nawlins is the ONLY city in the USA that this conversation can apply to

Too bad that I've only been there once in my life

[REP]

130. Completely unmoved by the Cabildo?

You don't need to be psychic to get "bad vibes" from a torture chamber.

Oh, and dissing the religion of others ain't manifesting light. That's just rude.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

144. If it's irrational and hateful it should be mocked.

As Christopher Hitchens says "You do not get a pass doing bad things in the name of religion."

I have had lots of rude christians tell me I'm going to hell because I don't believe the way they do. They are angry and completely negative, and their lives are not under control. Ignorance and superstition doesn't work in their lives, but they don't know that.

I have a right to diss them. I've told them how their negativity is crippling their families, but they won't listen and they won't change.

[REP]

148. Oh, the irony is priceless

Have you looked in a mirror lately? Or read any of your own posts, so full of negativity and judgment?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

153. I stay away from negative places and negative people.

It's really simple to figure out.

Like: Christianity, whiny country music, bars full of drunks.

Really easy to figure out.

[REP]

163. Ah. Curse the darkness rather than light a candle.

I have no idea what you mean by 'whiny country music;' Terry Allen and The Handsome Family aren't 'whiny' but I suppose some people like to stay inside their safe little boxes.

[KamaAina]

134. Strip clubs throughout the land are seldom known for "good juju"

:eyes:

[BlueIris]

136. Never been to NO, but I do not like the energy of alcohol. nt

[nolabear]

139. I am literally replying from the French Quarter. It is magnificent.

We leave tomorrow after a week with the relatives seeing all my old stomping grounds and eating an obscene amount of the most wonderful food on earth. What I saw were people going about their lives in a unique, artistic, interesting and interested way. Virtualy everyone chatted and engaged with us and seemed engaged in industrious work. Multiethnic, saly of the earth people just getting it done and playing incredible music, laughing with one another and living. here's magic here. History. Art. Literature. Music. Sexuality, It's heaven.

I think you're wrong.

[jxnmsdemguy65]

141. I've always loved Nola

But I think you are absolutely correct - bad vibes in many places, particularly seedier places in the Quarter...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

146. Didn't know I would be considered a snob or ignorant for starting this discussion.

Now I'm being told I should not criticize other peoples' religions, even if they are superstitious and ignorant fairy tales (like a large chunk of the bible).

You name it, on DU somebody will come up with some reason to criticize everything you say.

[REP]

149. If you post something ignorant or snobbish, expect to be called on it

[Withywindle]

151. World's tiniest Cajun fiddle playing just for you.

You started this thread to air your own bizarre little prejudices and fixations.


Amazingly enough, some of those presumptions got questioned! Who could ever have predicted that would happen on DU? After all, you only insulted part of a great American city, where many DUers live or have lived or visited and loved. With an extra bonus bit about how only quiet, upscale, controlled-environment, high-end, highbrow sorts of establishments meet with your "good juju" approval; hello, don't you know gentrification has been a very charged issue in cities for 30-40 years now?

You don't have to learn about Afro-New World religions if you don't want to, but on a progressive board, of course people are going to ask you to stop parroting old racist slanders unquestioningly. (Thinking voodoo is all about "curses" = result of racist slander. If you don't want to learn, you don't have to, but if you actually want to mention the subject, it's only right that more knowledgeable people will insist that you UNlearn the false stereotypes you absorbed so unquestioningly.) You're trying to have it both ways here. You're trying to declare that some people's (black people's, Southern people's, poor people's, mixed-race people's) religion is "superstitious and ignorant fairy tales", while reserving a right for yourself to decide what falls out of that category.

You can criticize other people's religions all you like -- but you will be criticized right back! No one's saying YOU CAN'T SAY THAT. You can say whatever the hell you want. And people who find what you say offensive and ignorant will respond to you and speak our piece as well. And you will speak back, and others will speak back to you. No one is censoring you, we're just passionately disagreeing with you.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

156. Oh, now I've got "bizarre little prejudices and fixations"!!! Wowie!!

You like New Orleans? Party on!! I'm not stopping you.

I am a southerner.

Whose religion do I think is superstitious crap? Not black people's, not poor people's religion.

I think ALL Christianity is superstitious crap. It's not the people, it's the belief system which is superstitious, primitive and supporting ignorance.

Preachers want sheep that they can control. They don't want people who have enough self-esteem to get up and ask questions and walk out.

And I will not be part of any irrational superstitious belief system.

My gut feelings are not part of a "belief system". They are my bodily sensations.

[Withywindle]

157. I've never been to New Orleans, unfortunately

But I know there is a hell of a lot more to that city than frat boys on Bourbon Street. It's where jazz was born.



You know what? I get that you don't like alcohol, but goddamn do you sound drunk right now. You are fixated on certain words and phrases, your handling of complex concepts is breaking down, and you're getting increasingly incoherent. And you've been ranting like this for FOUR DAYS NOW.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

158. Thank you for that input. No, I am not drunk. Night night.

:shrug:

[Withywindle]

159. I didn't say you were drunk

I said you SOUNDED like a drunk. Which you do.

Good night.

[NeedleCast]

169. Why Not Both?

Based on your responses in this thread, your knowledge of religion in general, and religious history in particular, is non-existent (yet you know you're against it). You're like a person who has eaten only Vanilla ice cream throughout their life but insists it's the best flavor while refusing to try anything else. You talk of your disdain for superstitious and ignorant fairy tales but throw around words like "gut feelings, vibes, and ju-ju" constantly. You fail to understand that your "gut feelings" are no more based in logic than religion is.

You're not being criticized unfairly. You're being criticized because you have made it clear that you are woefully under informed on the subject or religion or faith-based traditions but continue talking about it like we should accept your "gut feelings that scary glass bottles of Vodka are bad ju-ju" as some kind of fact based insight. You remind me of wiccans, witches, pagans, et. al. who bash organized religion while failing to note that their own belief system has no more basis in reality that modern day Catholicism.

And just for clarity, I should mention that I'm an atheist.

[seabeyond]

170. lol... the same people anti christian and bash it to hell, here on the site? lol

i dont care. i am open to all and none.

but, what i was gonna say is i hear what you say. as much as others dont believe or know, i think there is absolutely a feel. if you dont know, i am not going on bourbin st so cant tell there, but one of the things i am going to love is to see if i feel anything. i will give you my take. i am going in a week. my oldest picks up on that (without my influence cause i rarely share this adn surprised i am saying it out loud on du, lol) so much, he will refuse to go on the cemetery tour, lol. i embrace it, you shys away from it. again, all on his own telling me what he experience. i never share. dont want to influence.

[deaniac21]

167. Get help

[Manifestor_of_Light]

181. Is "not liking New Orleans" in the DSM-IV Psychiatric Manual?

Or did they sneak it into the latest version and I did not see it?


:wtf:

[Enrique]

168. there's a word for this way of thinking

Prejudice. It's very common, everyone has prejudices.

But your OP doesn't say much about New Orleans, it says more about you.

[seabeyond]

171. reading thru the replies i thought funny. i hear people yell for acceptance as long as not different

thought.

got that. acceptance only comes in the form of thinking, feeling and saying exactly as the larger group says.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

175. Yes.

I don't like New Orleans. Several people, most notably Zebedeo, had bad experiences and agreed with me that there are bad vibes.

Most of the other people say it's my imagination. I'm making it up, and that there are no bad vibes there.

You want to spend money there? Knock yourself out. Enjoy yourself.

Needlecast, you have no idea of my educational background:
My religion professor, who has a D.Div. from Princeton University, would be quite amused at your (Needlecast) assertion that I know nothing about religion. He knows quite a few ancient languages--Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Amharic, Aramaic, Linear B, not to mention Spanish and English. Those were difficult courses. I had to take religion courses to graduate from college. I have also done a lot of reading in many religions since the 1970s.

The assertion that I know nothing about religion is wrong. I know a lot more about the babble than these idiot preachers who go to unaccredited bible colleges.

And Seabeyond gets it. Saying that her child won't go on a cemetery tour and she respects that feeling of discomfort in him. She is not saying "Get over it! You're crazy! It's all in your head!"
unlike most of the people here. She is better than the people who don't respect my feelings.

My gut feelings tell me when to get away from negative people and negative places. If you don't like it, that is tough.

BTW, if you're an atheist that is fine. I'm an atheist secular humanist.