I think DU is well worth the money

[Renew Deal]

This is my opinion as a DU member. I am not speaking on behalf of anyone but myself.

Whether that money is $1 a year or more doesn't matter to me. It's well worth it. I've always donated what DU is worth to me. It's been approximately the same amount every quarter for the last 8+ years except one. It's more than $42/year. I've donated that much because I support the site, its mission, its members, and I want to see it thrive. I'm not "rich" or showing off. DU is valuable to me. Here is what DU means to me:

• The best Democratic message board on the internets.
  
• The best aggregator of information that interests me on the internet. It has grown with the new forums and groups (Videos, R\T, Sports, etc.)
  
• The fastest moving discussion forum full of interesting ideas and people.
  
• The ability to mix it up and learn with other people.
  
• A soapbox for the many interesting ideas that I come up with.
  
• A place to organize in Democratic politics.

Don't ever underestimate the value of having such interesting information in one place. It's incredibly convenient and far more interesting that the news sites. DU will remain free if people choose and non-paying users will have MORE access than they do now based on the way I understand Skinners message. Everyone has to make their own decision on what's important and valuable to them. In my case, I will remain a paying DU member. I really wish I could pay more.

[TBF]

1. I agree

but I also like the idea of ditching the star, which may make some folks feel like 2nd class citizens.

[boston bean]

2. It's not that people don't think DU is worth something. Thing is that they can't afford

the full access of the site.

For chrissakes!

And it's more difficult for others to buy them a subscription at 42 dollars a pop.

That's the issue.

People who can't afford DU make many wonderful contributions in other way, and now they have to pay even more than others to enjoy the full site.

[MADem]

3. +1 nt.

[Renew Deal]

4. I get that.

And when the choice is food or DU, I'd go for food. The good thing is that free access will be more open than what it is currently. It seems like the only real drawback is seeing more ads. I don't think that's so bad. I used to browse DU from my phone without signing in and I thought it was OK.

[boston bean]

7. You do not know what else one will see or not. You just don't, so until that is brought out here

in the wide open, please stop speculating.

For sure though, people will be priced out. That we do know for an absolute fact.

[Renew Deal]

14. How can people be "priced out" when the price is $0.00?

:shrug:

[boston bean]

18. that's cute. there is a membership fee. there will be perks for those who can afford it.

if it was all equal, why would anyone buy a subscription.

[Renew Deal]

19. That's the way DU is set up now

And non-members on the new system will have MORE access than they do now. As far as your last question, you should be able to answer that. You are a member. Why did you buy a subscription?

[boston bean]

22. No it's not, it was a voluntary donation. It was much less expensive.

Much more affordable for others to donate on others behalf. You know the people who couldn't even afford $5 for the year???

[Renew Deal]

29. Yes, I know that there are people that can't afford $5/year for unlimited access without ads.

[lindalou65]

45. DU access

I have never paid to be a DU member and as far as I can tell, I can access whatever I choose. Is that going away? If so, I will miss it but right now cannot afford to pay for it. Will turn to another progressive site if there is an access fee. I may donate from time to time if that is an option but to pay on a regular basis is not possible right now.

[Renew Deal]

48. As far as I understand it, you will have more access than you do now.

You should refer to the Skinner thread for official answers.

[WolverineDG]

25. Since Skinner said groups would be open to non-donors on DU3

(which he also said is being launched before the end of the year), it's not "speculating."

How can anyone be "silenced" or not allowed to contribute, if they can still do so for free?

dg

[boston bean]

27. ahem... straight from Skinner:

On DU3 you will still be able to buy a star which will remove all of the ads from the site and provide you with access to special functions and features

There are going to be many changes on DU3, you have absolutely no idea what those special functions and features will be, where people are left out, if they can't afford a membership.

Again, we do know for sure that people will be priced out, and people will be less likely to be able to buy as many people subscriptions at $42 a pop.

[Renew Deal]

30. He later said "On DU3, Groups will be open to people without stars."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2300356&mesg_id=2300552

[boston bean]

31. Umm, that is what i wrote, but you very conveniently leave out what I bolded for you.

Nothing to say about that.

you really think this is a minor change?? Still??

[Renew Deal]

33. What is there to say?

That's no different than the way DU works now. I guess I do think this is a minor change since I don't see it as a change at all. :shrug:

[boston bean]

36. oh yes it is different. what about the price to participate, has that changed?

Please stop being so obtuse about it.

And still you have no idea, NO IDEA, what features and fuctions will not be available to non subscribers who will be priced out.

[LanternWaste]

47. If it's premature to hypothesize about what we can do

If it's premature to hypothesize about what we can do on DU3 with the new pricing structure, then is it also premature to hypothesize about we we can't do on DU3 with the new pricing structure?

[boston bean]

49. We know they will be restrictions to being a subscriber and not being one.

And we know the price is going way up for complete access.

Really, I'm finding it hard to believe you cannot understand this.

[csziggy]

37. Skinner said later what those special features will be have not been decided

Maybe there will be less search capability, maybe with the new software there will be new features such as photo and video hosting that will be limited to people who can pay.

Nothing had been decided yet, according to what I have read.

The discussion of how this will affect the members is good and suggestions for how those who can may be able to contribute for the benefit of those who can't.

But nothing had been decided.

[WolverineDG]

39. So just how is the new system different from the current one

other than you're less likely to get a free star from someone? You can still post & read for free, ffs.

"Special functions & features"? Is that what you're having a tizzy over? Really? What's wrong with offering additional bells & whistles to those who help the site financially?



dg

[Lars39]

21. "...from my phone..." There are people on here who are still on dial-up

because that is all that they can afford or all that is offered where they live. Ads greatly diminish the DU experience when you are on dial-up or have crappy service.

[jeff47]

44. Firefox + adblock + noscript. Will help greatly on all sites, not just DU. (nt)

[joeybee12]

9. I agree...it bothers me that it's creating a two-class system here at DU...

There are a lot of people here really struggling...$42 is a big deal to some of them.

[L0oniX]

15. That's what they don't get. There is enough division here. Now a class division over who can pay.

I'm sure my Ad Blocker will be getting a work out.

[Renew Deal]

16. We have always had donor stars

At least as long as I've been here. I never thought that people not contributing were "poor" or "lower class" or whatever. :shrug:

[boston bean]

20. It was reachable for many. This prices people out.

Gosh, you must know that the minimum donation as $5 prior, right.

And it also enabled others to be able to buy STARS for others.

Really, you see no difference here??

[Renew Deal]

32. I see the difference

If you don't pay, you see ads. Unlike DU2, you get groups for free on DU3. No word yet on advanced search, but that doesn't matter much considering how good the google based search is. So yes, I see the difference.

[boston bean]

35. you are being obtuse. you can't even come to grips with the increase

of a yearly membership, now subscription.

please be honest about it. It prices people out. And you do not know what they will not have access to. You have a very limited knowledge of what they will have access to.

[Renew Deal]

40. Well, we're back to the start.

I understand that there is a difference between $42/year and less than $42/year. I understand that people have financial hardship and cannot afford the new cost. I disagree that it prices people out. Having access to DU3 with ads and groups is still more access than people have now when they don't pay. We don't know what we don't know. We do know what we do know. ;) It's not possible to be "priced out" when the price is free. People are just as able to read, post, etc. as they were before. They just have to see the occasional Herman Cain ad. ;)

I'm not blowing you off and I take your views seriously. I think we just view it differently. :patriot:

[boston bean]

41. If there was no difference between being a paying subscriber and not being one

no one would bother to subscribe.

they might donate to the site because they like it.

Subscribing v donating, two completely different animals.

And if people are now able to get full access to the site for a $5 dollar donation a year, and that is taken away, it is an increase that prices them out of the full access they once enjoyed.

What is so difficult to understand about this.

Also, it makes it financially difficult for others to pay for a subscription at $42 a pop.

[msongs]

26. do you have a car? did you pay more to get wheels and a transmission or got the no move model? nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. What exactly will you be missing if you don't donate?

I rarely wander out of GD, so I don't understand what I must be missing by not being a current donor. What exactly are non-donors missing out on? I get "My DU", send and receive "Private Messages", "Greatest Page", "Latest Breaking News", access to set up a Journal and links to all forums. What am I missing out on? I see ONE difference (VERY minor one) between being a donor and not being one.

[Fumesucker]

5. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/http:/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2292154

[dkf]

6. How much does looking at the ads contribute?

Maybe it makes sense to go that way? Is that not contributing also? It probably costs some people bandwidth.

[kestrel91316]

8. Du is worth far more than I have ever been able to donate. Sigh.

[Rex]

10. It is still FREE! Why are people freaking out?

Just a few ads...what is the big deal? I think people need something to freak out about, otherwise their day just won't be complete! :eyes:

[Bonhomme Richard]

12. +1 and click on the ads since DU benefits. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. ...

It's just the Outrage du jour.

If people download Ad Block Plus...FOR FREE, they see ZERO ADS. http://adblockplus.org/en/

I'm not understanding the outrage here. $5.00 a month, approximately .16 cents a day OR $3.50/$42.00 a year. Start in December 2011, donate $5.00 and it's good for a year, as per Skinner's OP. During that year, save 12 cents a day until December, 2012 and you will have your $42.00 for 2013 with a little left over. During 2013...rinse and repeat. Also, from Skinner's OP....you do NOT have to pay anything if you can't afford it. That sounds pretty fair to me. I'm not a donor and I see one MINOR difference in access to functions.

From his OP:

"And as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge."

[patrice]

11. I agree and it is good for the star to go.

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. I agree but

I'm long-term unemployed and cannot afford the annual donation. That same $42 will
(1) pay a month of trash, water and sewer service;
(2) pay a month of phone service, cable tv or internet service;
(3) purchase t-shirts for my summer warbrobe or an ample supply of new skivvies and socks;
(4) buy enough gasoline to enable me to visit my elderly parents or provide me local transportation for 2 or 3 weeks or mow my grass for the entire summer;
(5) feed me for a most of a week;
(6) pay over two-thirds of my annual car tag fee or the expenses associated with one of my two annual oil changes or a number of other needs and expenses that take priority over having a DU star.

I've been here without a star before. If I must do it again then so be it.

But I would hope that Skinner will implement some quality control regarding the ads that run here. There have been some pretty tasteless ads run here in the past for weeks on end - notably the shocking meat video ad and the vibrator ad.

[mopinko]

23. offensive ads are routinely discontinued.

a pm to admins usually results in their removal.

[NRaleighLiberal]

17. Agreed - the points I consider - money I've saved stopping the following due to DU

and it's ability to be a one-stop news source:

News Mags
Newspaper
Cable TV

More than makes up for it.

And it has gotten tougher for me to contribute - lost my job last March, on a fixed income. Many things have gone, but DU will stay.

[DevonRex]

24. Besides, donate before DU3 and you have a year before you have

to worry about any increase. And by that time maybe there won't be as big of a jump anyway. Skinner and Earl have always been responsive to member concerns.

[Renew Deal]

34. Good point.

People can get grandfathered in for a year.

[DevonRex]

42. It's quite generous when you think about it. Compare it to cable companies,

for example. They would never say they'll be raising rates but if you're an existing subscriber you're grandfathered in for a year. They do just the opposite and give breaks only to new customers.

We will have a solid year to try DU3 for as little as $5. And if love it we will want to support it. If we don't we won't. Personally I think DU is already worth it. I don't donate as much as I should now, when I really think about how much I'm here and the wonderful people I get to talk to.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. I agree. I don't have any issues with the price increase for full access

I probably would if it didn't include free access to the groups, but since it does I'm able to deal with the situation. DU has a lot to offer in our groups and I'm glad to see they'll be more accessible to people who could benefit from them. Besides, what they're planning on doing here is not unlike what many other websites already do. I have to pay a yearly fee of more than that to enjoy full access on a gardening site I enjoy. When I can't afford to pay I can't use certain features on the site, but I am still allowed to enjoy the site and all the free resources it offers. Not unlike how DU will be after this is implemented.

[lindalou65]

46. DU access

I cannot afford to pay if there is a fee. I have not yet paid a fee and I have not joined as a DU member except to set up to post online. If a fee is assessed, I will likely have to search for another progressive site.
As long as I can read and post on occasion, I will be happy.