isn't it interesting that U.S. debt is at 14 trillion & we learned 12 trillion

[StarsInHerHair]

was recently pilfered..........COULD there be any connections? http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/telliottmbamsc/blog/2011/01/federal-reserve-spent-12-trillion-banks-while-american-homeowners-
http://blogs.forbes.com/robertlenzner/2011/01/12/us-banks-reporting-phantom-income-on-1-4-trillion-delinquent-mortgages/?boxes=Homepagechannels
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=armOzfkwtCA4

...."Financial Rescue Nears GDP as Pledges Top $12.8 Trillion (Update1)
By Mark Pittman and Bob Ivry - March 31, 2009 14:20 EDT".....

....."US Banks Reporting Phantom Income on $1.4 Trillion Delinquent Mortgages
Jan. 12 2011 - 8:36 am | 16,779 views | 0 recommendations | 54 comments
By ROBERT LENZNER

The giant US banks have been bailed out again from huge potential writeoffs by loosey-goosey accounting accepted by the accounting profession and the regulators.".....

...“Meet The 35 Foreign Banks That Got Bailed Out By The Fed”, by Tyler Durden on 12/01/201; http://www.zerohedge.com/article/meet-35-foreign-banks-got-bailed-out-fed-and-just-cpff-banks."....

my spelling blows, sorry

[xchrom]

1. It's done now. Nt

[fascisthunter]

2. Up... and yet they bitch about Taxes and social programs... what a fucking joke!

[LongTomH]

3. Kleptocracy, Anyone?

[Still a Democrat]

4. The government never gave anyone $12 trillion

Any such sum is probably guarantees. It's not driving the $14 trillion debt.

[StarsInHerHair]

5. really? I provided some links, let's see yours

...."One may be forgiven to believe that via its FX liquidity swap lines the Fed only bailed out foreign Central Banks, which in turn took the money and funded their own banks. It turns out that is only half the story: we now know the Fed also acted in a secondary bail out capacity, providing over $350 billion in short term funding exclusively to 35 foreign banks, of which the biggest beneficiaries were UBS, Dexia and BNP. Since the funding provided was in the form of ultra-short maturity commercial paper it was essentially equivalent to cash funding. In other words, between October 27, 2008 and August 6, 2009, the Fed spent $350 billion in taxpayer funds to save 35 foreign banks."..... http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/telliottmbamsc/blog/2011/01/federal-reserve-spent-12-trillion-banks-while-american-homeowners- quoted from there

[Occulus]

6. your hartmann link needs fixing

but yes, that's some damning information.

[StarsInHerHair]

7. yeah I noticed that, it worked earlier from a google search

i don't know why it now doesnt.

[Statistical]

8. Money lent by the Fed doesn't affect deficit or national debt.

The $14T national debt completely excludes anything on Fed balance sheet.

[Common Sense Party]

9. It's amazing how few people know that. n/t

[Common Sense Party]

10. You do realize the Federal reserve is not part of the U.S. government

right?

[Hannah Bell]

11. In what sense? It was created by an Act of Congress and its Board is appointed by the President.

According to the Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government."

However, its authority is derived from the U.S. Congress and is subject to congressional oversight.

Additionally, the members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by Congress.

The government also exercises some control over the Federal Reserve by appointing and setting the salaries of the system's highest-level employees.

Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects.<12>

The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks' capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained. The Federal Reserve transferred a record amount of $45 billion to the U.S. Treasury in 2009.<13>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System

[Common Sense Party]

12. Its assets aren't part of the U.S. balance sheet.

It isn't a government agency, it's not part of the U.S. budget.

[Hannah Bell]

16. The interest payments are indeed part of the US balance sheet.

The Federal Reserve transferred a record amount of $45 billion to the U.S. Treasury in 2009.<13>

The federal reserve is the central bank of the US.

The seven-member Board of Governors is a federal agency and is the main governing body of the Federal Reserve System.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System


The Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), a component of the Federal Reserve System, is charged under United States law with overseeing the nation's open market operations.<1> It is the Federal Reserve committee that makes key decisions about interest rates and the growth of the United States money supply.<2> It is the principal organ of United States national monetary policy. (Open market operations are the buying and selling of United States Treasury securities.)

[Statistical]

17. Not exactly. The treasury receives any profit generated beyond 6% return on capital.

By charter the fed banks can only generate 6% return on capital annually. Any profit beyond that is given to the Treasury to comply with that charter. Any losses are absorbed by Fed member banks.

The Fed maintains its own balance sheet. Any loans, interest, debts, and defaults on Fed balance sheet have absolutely no direct effect on deficit or national debt. Only If/when the Fed generates a profit (not the goal of the Fed) beyond 6% dividend it turns over any excess to the Treasury to comply with its charter.

[Hannah Bell]

18. The Federal Reserve transferred a record amount of $45 billion to the U.S. Treasury in 2009.

[Statistical]

Yeah. Your point?

"Record $45B" is somewhat dubious. It was about 0.3% of GDP.

Still the OP claim that $12T of the $14T national debt is from loans to banks isn't supported by that fact.

[Hannah Bell]

21. The implication of your post -- that the Fed has a negligible effect on the US budget -- is false.

I don't know why you would even mention GDP. That wasn't at issue.

The $45 B is a record payment from the Fed. That's not dubious, it's fact.

[Statistical]

25. While it is a record amount it is small relative to the US economy, money supply, national debt, or

federal budget.

If I gave you a penny each year and then one year MASSIVELY increased it to a $0.25 it would be a large change in % basis but has more than a rounding error effect on your financial situation.

[Hannah Bell]

26. 2009 budget about 3 trillion = 1.6% of the budget, 3.5% of the deficit.

in 2008 Fed paid $34 B to Treasury = 1.2% of budget, 8.3% of deficit.

no idea what your point is.

[Statistical]

15. Delete

[StarsInHerHair]

13. so you missed the part about the Fed spending taxpayer money, then?

nt I have more from bloomberg: ....."March 31 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government and the Federal Reserve have spent, lent or committed $12.8 trillion, an amount that approaches the value of everything produced in the country last year, to stem the longest recession since the 1930s.

New pledges from the Fed, the Treasury Department and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. include $1 trillion for the Public-Private Investment Program, designed to help investors buy distressed loans and other assets from U.S. banks. The money works out to $42,105 for every man, woman and child in the U.S. and 14 times the $899.8 billion of currency in circulation. The nation’s gross domestic product was $14.2 trillion in 2008. "....

[Statistical]

14. The quote doesn't say anything about fed spending taxpayer money.

The Fed balance sheet doesn't belong to taxpayers.
The money lent by the Fed is created by the Fed and isn't supplied by the Treasury or taxpayers.
The Fed balance sheet has no affect on deficit.
The Fed balance sheet has no affect on national debt.

[Hannah Bell]

19. How is the Federal Reserve funded?

The Federal Reserve's income is derived primarily from the interest on U.S. government securities that it has acquired through open market operations.

Other sources of income are the interest on foreign currency investments held by the System; fees received for services provided to depository institutions, such as check clearing, funds transfers, and automated clearinghouse operations; and interest on loans to depository institutions (the rate on which is the so-called discount rate).

After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm

The Fed indeed has an effect on US debt & deficit through its conduct of monetary policy, which is the primary determinant of interest rates & the availability of money & credit.

[Statistical]

20. No more than you buying a t-bond has an effect.

Deficit is the difference between federal expenditures and federal revenue. Neither of which involve the Fed.
National debt is the accumulation of deficits and surpluses.

Open Market operations means just that. Securities bought and sold on the open market. Not directly to or from the treasury.

[Hannah Bell]

22. None of which have anything to do with what I said. The Fed's decisions are

primary in determining the availability of money, credit, & interest rates, all of which affect the level of US deficit & debt, as well as business & household deficit & debt.

[Statistical]

24. No they don't.

Treasuries are fixed interest insturments.

The deficit is the difference between revenue and expenses. Both are set by Congress. Period.

The OP claim that $12T of the $14T national debt is the result of Fed lending money to banks is false and silly (given we had >$10T national debt PRIOR to the crisis).

[Hannah Bell]

27. i'm not talking about the op, i'm talking about your claims.

[StarsInHerHair]

28. and you missed my Bloomberg quote on the Gov & Fed spending too..........

another college grad who's having some critical difficulty? I don't understand why you'd otherwise ignore my quotes SHOWING the FED TOOK TAXPAYER MONEY. Maybe I'M the stupid........I don't know......

[SDuderstadt]

23. It's an independent federal agency...

Among other things, that means it's self-funded and doesn't report to a Cabinet Secretary, but it most certainly IS a part of the federal government.

The amount of misinformation and ignorance of the Fed is simply stunning.

[StarsInHerHair]

29. LOOK HERE! --->from Right and a little less Right Sources 12.8 trillion

http://rt.com/usa/news/fed-usa-economy-loans/

http://goldmoneybill.blogspot.com/2011/01/fed-gives-away-12-trillion-dollars-to.html

http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/34390197


http://nation.foxnews.com/bailouts/2010/12/02/shocking-fed-s-trillion-dollar-foreign-bank-bailout

------------>"March 31 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government and the Federal Reserve have spent, lent or committed $12.8 trillion"<----------

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=armOzfkwtCA4