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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 05:24 PM
Original message
Iranian accusations of US involvement in mosque bombing that killed 39 people...
Edited on Thu Dec-16-10 06:03 PM by JackRiddler
First, the story, then some background.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-12/16/c_13650701.htm

Iran accuses US, Britain, Israel of deadly suicide bomb attack

English.news.cn 2010-12-16 02:21:52

TEHRAN, Dec. 15 (Xinhua) -- Iran on Wednesday accused the United States, Britain and Israel of involving in the deadly suicide bomb attack in the country which left 39 killed and more than 50 others wounded. The attack occurred in front of the Imam Hussein mosque in southeastern port city of Chabahar on Wednesday when people gathered for a mourning ceremony on the religious occasion of Tasua, local satellite Press TV said.

Tasua is commemorated by Shiite Muslims, marking the eve of the day when Hussein ibn Ali, the grandson of Prophet Muhammad, was killed. According to media, the Pakistan-based Sunni rebel group Jundallah (God' s soldiers) has claimed responsibility for the deadly attack.

Chief of Iran's Parliament National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi accused the United States and Britain of involving in the attack, the semi-official ISNA news agency reported. "The experience from the past incidents indicate that the U.S. and U.K. intelligent services are behind the crimes like the Wednesday morning bombing in Chabahar," Boroujerdi was quoted as saying.

Meanwhile, Iranian Deputy Interior Minister Ali Abdollahi told official IRNA news agency that the equipment and facilities nabbed on Wednesday revealed that the bombing agents were supported by the intelligent services of the region and the United States.

SNIP




It's easy to be dismissive of any statements from the Iranian state, but there have been past confirmations of US intel money going to groups that conduct armed attacks in Iran, such as Jundallah. One may wonder which of the Iranian domestic armed guerilla groups would exist without covert operations funding.

A US covert war has been waged on Iran since at least 2007, except it's not covert, but in that grey area where it is sometimes announced with pride and sometimes denied at the pleasure of the sponsor government.

This activity has subverted and tainted the civil opposition in Iran, and ends up strengthening the most repressive elements there, which suits the hardliners on this side, like the neocons who actually want an extreme government in Tehran because they'd still like to launch a full military attack.

.

May 24, 2007:

ABC News reports on Bush regime finding to authorize CIA action in Iran


The report presents the CIA operation as a new program, possibly conceived as an alternative to Cheney-backed plans for direct military action. The finding is called "non-lethal," meaning it authorizes propaganda and infiltration, but a lethal finding would not be reported. The report makes mention of "proxy war" via longstanding ties to mujahedeen forces inside Iran. At the end, the reporters joke that the CIA may well be happy to have them reveal the operation as a form of "rattling the cage." Ha ha ha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wg3r2YSM9g


July 7, 2008:

Seymour Hersh expose in The New Yorker on efforts authorized by Congress to destabilize Iran. A decentralized or parapolitical dimension to the actions is made clear:

"Operations outside the knowledge and control of commanders have eroded 'the coherence of military strategy,' one general says." But keeping the action out of direct US control enhances plausible deniability! Whether the effects of the operation are direct or indirect, the US is still paying for it.

The Hersh article has been discussed here often before. Some excerpts:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh

Preparing the Battlefield
The Bush Administration steps up its secret moves against Iran.


by Seymour M. Hersh
July 7, 2008

Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership. The covert activities involve support of the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. They also include gathering intelligence about Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons program.

Clandestine operations against Iran are not new. United States Special Operations Forces have been conducting cross-border operations from southern Iraq, with Presidential authorization, since last year. These have included seizing members of Al Quds, the commando arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and taking them to Iraq for interrogation, and the pursuit of “high-value targets” in the President’s war on terror, who may be captured or killed. But the scale and the scope of the operations in Iran, which involve the Central Intelligence Agency and the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), have now been significantly expanded, according to the current and former officials. Many of these activities are not specified in the new Finding, and some congressional leaders have had serious questions about their nature.

Under federal law, a Presidential Finding, which is highly classified, must be issued when a covert intelligence operation gets under way and, at a minimum, must be made known to Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and the Senate and to the ranking members of their respective intelligence committees—the so-called Gang of Eight. Money for the operation can then be reprogrammed from previous appropriations, as needed, by the relevant congressional committees, which also can be briefed. “The Finding was focussed on undermining Iran’s nuclear ambitions and trying to undermine the government through regime change,” a person familiar with its contents said, and involved “working with opposition groups and passing money.” The Finding provided for a whole new range of activities in southern Iran and in the areas, in the east, where Baluchi political opposition is strong, he said.

Although some legislators were troubled by aspects of the Finding, and “there was a significant amount of high-level discussion” about it, according to the source familiar with it, the funding for the escalation was approved. In other words, some members of the Democratic leadership—Congress has been under Democratic control since the 2006 elections—were willing, in secret, to go along with the Administration in expanding covert activities directed at Iran, while the Party’s presumptive candidate for President, Barack Obama, has said that he favors direct talks and diplomacy.


.

Hersh begins the next section with, "The request for funding came in the same period in which the Administration was coming to terms with a National Intelligence Estimate, released in December, that concluded that Iran had halted its work on nuclear weapons in 2003."

The NIE release enraged the Bush regime and came in the course of a Pentagon revolt against launching a war on Iran. This period saw the dismissal or resignation of Admiral Fallon as commander of CENTCOM.

Hersh described the Fallon episode and gave evidence that the US is involved with armed groups operating in Iran:

Admiral Fallon, who is known as Fox, was aware that he would face special difficulties as the first Navy officer to lead CENTCOM, which had always been headed by a ground commander, one of his military colleagues told me. He was also aware that the Special Operations community would be a concern. “Fox said that there’s a lot of strange stuff going on in Special Ops, and I told him he had to figure out what they were really doing,” Fallon’s colleague said. “The Special Ops guys eventually figured out they needed Fox, and so they began to talk to him. Fox would have won his fight with Special Ops but for Cheney.” The Pentagon consultant said, “Fallon went down because, in his own way, he was trying to prevent a war with Iran, and you have to admire him for that.”

In recent months, according to the Iranian media, there has been a surge in violence in Iran; it is impossible at this early stage, however, to credit JSOC or C.I.A. activities, or to assess their impact on the Iranian leadership. The Iranian press reports are being carefully monitored by retired Air Force Colonel Sam Gardiner, who has taught strategy at the National War College and now conducts war games centered on Iran for the federal government, think tanks, and universities. The Iranian press “is very open in describing the killings going on inside the country,” Gardiner said. It is, he said, “a controlled press, which makes it more important that it publishes these things. We begin to see inside the government.” He added, “Hardly a day goes by now we don’t see a clash somewhere. There were three or four incidents over a recent weekend, and the Iranians are even naming the Revolutionary Guard officers who have been killed.”

Earlier this year, a militant Ahwazi group claimed to have assassinated a Revolutionary Guard colonel, and the Iranian government acknowledged that an explosion in a cultural center in Shiraz, in the southern part of the country, which killed at least twelve people and injured more than two hundred, had been a terrorist act and not, as it earlier insisted, an accident. It could not be learned whether there has been American involvement in any specific incident in Iran, but, according to Gardiner, the Iranians have begun publicly blaming the U.S., Great Britain, and, more recently, the C.I.A. for some incidents. The agency was involved in a coup in Iran in 1953, and its support for the unpopular regime of Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi—who was overthrown in 1979—was condemned for years by the ruling mullahs in Tehran, to great effect. “This is the ultimate for the Iranians—to blame the C.I.A.,” Gardiner said. “This is new, and it’s an escalation—a ratcheting up of tensions. It rallies support for the regime and shows the people that there is a continuing threat from the ‘Great Satan.’ ” In Gardiner’s view, the violence, rather than weakening Iran’s religious government, may generate support for it.

Many of the activities may be being carried out by dissidents in Iran, and not by Americans in the field. One problem with “passing money” (to use the term of the person familiar with the Finding) in a covert setting is that it is hard to control where the money goes and whom it benefits. Nonetheless, the former senior intelligence official said, “We’ve got exposure, because of the transfer of our weapons and our communications gear. The Iranians will be able to make the argument that the opposition was inspired by the Americans. How many times have we tried this without asking the right questions? Is the risk worth it?” One possible consequence of these operations would be a violent Iranian crackdown on one of the dissident groups, which could give the Bush Administration a reason to intervene.



A view from a former top official of the Pakistani military:

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/cia-has-distributed-400-million-dollars-inside-iran-to-evoke-a-revolution/

Former Pakistani Army General Mirza Aslam Beig claims the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has distributed 400 million dollars inside Iran to evoke a revolution.

In a phone interview with the Pashto Radio on Monday, General Beig said that there is undisputed intelligence proving the US interference in Iran. “The documents prove that the CIA spent 400 million dollars inside Iran to prop up a colorful-hollow revolution following the election,” he added.

Pakistan’s former army chief of joint staff went on to say that the US wanted to disturb the situation in Iran and bring to power a pro-US government.

He congratulated President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on his re- election for the second term in office, noting that Pakistan relationship with Iran has improved during his 4-year presidency. “Ahmadinejad’s re-election is a decisive point in regional policy and if Pakistan and Afghanistan unite with Iran, the US has to leave the area, especially the occupied Afghanistan,” Beig added.


.

It should be noted, again, that the "400 million dollars" distributed by the CIA (or other US agencies) as part of a covert operation to destabilize the Iranian government is not a claim by General Beig, but a fact as reported in the US media as well.

The question is how much of that is ending up supporting terrorist murder attacks in Iran, like the bombing this week of the Tasua mosque. (As a component of the "global war on terrorism," of course.)

.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. You don't have to like the Iranian government to oppose US covert operations...
Just making that clear to the evident unreccers who have arrived here for some reason.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. That actually makes a lot of sense.
It doesn't matter who did it, they're not giving any internal group the credit.

Psyops 101.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. thanks. I think when they really have solid evidence...
they'll take it to the UN, and then it will become quite explosive politically.

Realistically, it's only a matter of time. It's very hard to spread $400 million secretly around a third-world country for the purpose of destabilizing its government without ending up financing the famous "unsavory characters" who commit acts like these.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No. It won't.
The members of the UN are not innocent children. They are completely conversant with espionage.

BTW, did you just call IRAN a third world country?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Relax. It was short-hand for "a lot poorer than here so $400 million goes a long way."
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. As for "grown-ups" and children...
If there is an espionage angle to the bombing of the Tesua mosque, there is nothing adult-sophisticated about it. It is mass murder and those who wish to dismiss it with a sneer or say it's just "realism" or pragmatism to engage in murder need to examine their own immature morality.

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think the coin they flip has jews on one side and america on the other..
same old shit.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sage observation.
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infidel dog Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Absolutely
More drivel from batshit crazy theocrats.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Is the murder of the 39 people in Tesua "more drivel" from the theocrats?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Yep. Its either the jews or the american bogeyman..
thats all they have.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Are the US and Israel not hostile to Iran?
Did the US issue a finding in 2007 to authorize covert action designed to destabilize the Iranian regime? Did Congress allocate $400 million for this operation? Yes or no?

Has Israel asked for permission to attack Iran? Has it not called on the US to attack Iran? Yes or no?

Does this hostile action from US and from Israel end up propping up the Iranian theocracy by providing credible external enemies? Yes or no?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. so that means we blew these random people up?
like I said scientist blown up, building with stuff in it burns down. sure. 39 random people, not so much.

you have no proof, nor do i, so my opinion is just as valid as yours.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. First of all, it doesn't mean "we" blew up anything. You maybe, but not I.
And given that the US has supported groups that commit terrorist acts in Iran in the past, the question is very much a valid one, even when we don't know the answer.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Which means what with regard to the announced covert operation...
or the possible foreign involvements in this terror attack in Tesua with 39 murdered victims?

Absolutely nothing.

But not surprising from you. Understanding that covert actions may be at work does not mean one endorses the Iranian government.

Also, are you saying that Israel has not been calling for a war on Iran? Are you saying that Israel poses no threat to Iran?

(In your case, all rhetorical questions, I know, but there are other readers here. Thanks.)
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. little satan, big satan, fall guy for all problems in Iran.
if the nuts that run the place get the shits its a zionist plot.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You do not address the terror attack in Tesua that murdered 39 people Wednesday.
1) Do you think the "nuts that run the place" did that? Or do you think the murder of 39 people is no more important than the "nuts" getting "the shits"?

Let's see if you can answer that.

If you do, then two more:

2) Did the US initiate a $400 million covert operation to destabilize the Iranian government, as announced in the American media? Or is that the nuts being paranoid?

3) Has Israel called for a war on Iran and lobbied for it in the US, or is that just the "nuts" being paranoid?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. no i do not. if someone shot a scientist, sure blame the je.. "zionists"
sounds like a religious spat to me.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. No, you do not what? You didn't answer any of the questions.
The shooting of scientists is a separate matter.

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. no, has nothing to do with the US.. religious spat
has nothing to do with the us when sects within islam or tribes blow themselves up.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks for your highly educated opinion as always.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks, you paid for it..sunni shia and explosives, gees, must be the jews(nt)
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. He never does, all he has is glib, knee-jerk excuse for authority.. *nt
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. dont be all hatey. I answered his questions and no the us did not blow up those nice people.
or give money to people to carry that out..
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I'll hate who I think deserves it (a backhanded compliment, in a way),
Edited on Thu Dec-16-10 11:40 PM by Alamuti Lotus
and yes, they certainly have given a lot of money to these people; the hanged man Rigi was most certainly backed by the usual suspects. His successors seem to have diverted from the program and appear to be adopting a more geniunely extreme platform (I have heard of apocryphal ties to definitely geniunely anti-US, salafist anti-Shia groups in Pakistan like Lashkar i-Jhangvi, Sipah-i-Sahabah and other groups that actually twice tried to kill me--long story, I stayed once with a Shiite militia in Baltistan that came under salafist attack, permanently scarred me against those cunts; and I spoke with Riaz Bashra once and I have nothing good to say about the motherfucker, anybody who follows him or Maulana Jhangvi can kiss my ass), but there are past ties that cannot be denied. Kneejerk excuse of authority cannot be denied either.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thanks for this perspective... you must be UK, no?
If so, can you guess how you gave that away?
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. close, but not even English
Vikings and Scots, mostly, family is Minnesotan for ages with the recent generation by way of Lake Tahoe, with me settled in the future nation of the pacific northwest. And it was probably the word "cunts" that led you astray, not too many throw that around as a casual insult aside from the Brits. :)
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Yup, that was it. Welcome to DU...
I know you're at 1000+, but I never said that to you before.

;)
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Verry common in OZ, oddly so.
on your first visit. it is tossed around in a casual manner. There is has a friendly meaning, which is also funny.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. The Little and Great Satan respectively
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
43. Precisely. nt
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sure, it's possible. The US has reason to lie. Of course, so does Iran. nt
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. It doesn't really stand up
to scrutiny, that claim. First of all, what the bush admin did re Iran, is not evidence that the Obama admin is doing the same thing. Using stories from 2007 and 2009 just does not provide legitimate evidence.

You're trying too hard.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Are you aware of a suspension of the 2007 finding?
The Obama administration has shown certain continuities even you cannot dispute.

Do you remember who was the Secretary of "Defense" who presided over the 2007 finding authorizing CIA covert action to destabilize Iran, for which the Congress then allocated $400 million? Can you tell us who occupies that post today?

Are you aware of any public notice that the finding has been suspended, or that the operation was wrapped up?

(Another example is the Sept. 14, 2001 EO declaring a state of emergency. It has been renewed at around the same time every year, including the last two years.)

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. No, are you aware of a continuation>
Public notice? Really?

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. The original finding ended up in the public and the Congress allocated funds.
ABC News, which reported it originally, even coyly suggested that the CIA wanted it made public to "rattle the cage" of Iran.

So yes, public. The government can be very flexible about when it presents its "secrets," and when it denies them.

Are you aware of evidence that the finding authorizing covert action has been reversed, or that the program was shut down?
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. recommend.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thanks. (Help save us from the "usual suspects"!)
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. Another recommend from me, fwiw.
Edited on Thu Dec-16-10 08:37 PM by scarletwoman
"Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean you're not being followed."
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. thanks
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. kick
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. kick
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. kick
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. thanks
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