Nazi references are wrong, I don't care who makes them

[Still a Democrat]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4703427

Belittles the enormous travesties the real Nazis committed and do we want a better tone or not?

I can't be outraged when a Republican does it and then drool over a Democrat.

[MrModerate]

1. Opposed to calling a spade a spade?

The "Big Lie" that Cohen is basing his remarks on is an historical fact, coming from Goebbels lips and from John Boehner.

The Republicans haven't set up death camps -- yet. Is there any question that if Palin was in the White House, her opponents would be forcibly "reeducated" as soon as she could get the barbed wire strung?

[Still a Democrat]

2. You think Republicans in this country are comparable to Nazis?

Concentration camps? Millions murdered?

[MrModerate]

5. The Nazi regime didn't start setting up camps until . . .

they'd been in effectively unopposed power for 10 years. Can I see "Good Americans" standing aside while President-for-life Mike Huckabee sends trainloads of Muslims, liberals, gays, and American Indians to camps in, shall we say, Montana?

Sure I can.

[Zywiec]

7. Dachau opened in 1933

Are you saying the Nazis were effectively the unopposed power in Germany since 1923?

:shrug:

[MrModerate]

12. OK, my dates were wrong.

Hitler was crazy and surrounded by zealots and moved quickly upon winkling his way into power in 1933 (I was thinking since the beer-hall putsch, which is clearly not correct).

I still maintain there's enough deep hatred in the far right, and a willingness to embrace just about any technique to attain and retain power that the notion of concentration camps being built in the US under their regime is not at all fantastic. This is, after all, the political organization that formally reintroduced torture into US policy.

We're less immune to "banal evil" than we think. Heck, if the Japanese had been more successful in 1941-1945, what retaliation might have been carried out in the concentration camps built by a Democratic president?

[JVS]

69. Even with wrong dates, your point is right.

Dachau did not open up as a full blown death camp. And not all Nazis were even fully aware of what was going on in some parts of the country. .

[Hannah Bell]

107. which was the year the nazi party took power. however, they were a party & faction years

before that, active propagandists who showed themselves to be anti-jew, anti-foreigner, anti-ruling party, anti-communist, anti-socialist -- and anti-democratic:

Goebbels successful 1928 campaign for election to the Reichstag included this piece:

Why Do We Want to Join the Reichstag?

We are an anti-parliamentarian party that for good reasons rejects the Weimar constitution and its republican institutions. We oppose a fake democracy that treats the intelligent and the foolish, the industrious and the lazy, in the same way. We see in the present system of majorities and organized irresponsibility the main cause of our steadily increasing miseries. So why do we want to be in the Reichstag?

If we succeed in getting sixty or seventy of our party’s agitators and organizers elected to the various parliaments, the state itself will pay for our fighting organization...Do you believe that once we march into the meeting of the illustrious parliamentarians we will propose a toast to Philipp Scheidemann?

Mussolini entered parliament. Shortly afterward, he marched on Rome with his Black Shirts...the fighters for our faith will enjoy parliamentary immunity long enough to broaden our fighting front such that shutting them up will not be as easy as democracy would like it to be...

We are coming neither as friends or neutrals. We come as enemies! As the wolf attacks the sheep, so come we.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/angrif06.htm




The nazis made public statements similar to "you'll eventually have to shoot the opposition in the head".

they had their own supportive media & their paid activists. Their leader wrote a popular book.

They won seats in the Reichstag:

1924: 32
1924: 14
1928: 12
1930: 107
1932: 230
1932: 196

Goebbels was one of the nazis elected in 1928; he was already their chief propagandist.


Pre-1933 Nazi propaganda:



1924: "Germany's liberation"




1927: Who is Adolf Hitler? The man from the people, for the people! The German front soldier who risked his life in 48 battles for Germany! What does Adolf Hitler want? Freedom and food for every decent working German! The gallows for profiteers, black marketeers and exploiters, regardless of religious faith or race! Why is Adolf Hitler not allowed to speak? Because he is ruthless in uncovering the rulers of the German economy, the international bank Jews and their lackeys, the Democrats, Marxists, Jesuits, and Free Masons! Because he wants to free the workers from the domination of big money! Working Germans! Demand the lifting of the illegal ban on his speaking!




1927 nuremburg rally from the book "germany awakes"





This vivid poster from the September 1930 Reichstag election summarizes Nazi ideology in a single image. A Nazi sword kills a snake, the blade passing through a red Star of David. The red words coming from the snake are: usury, Versailles, unemployment, war guilt lie, Marxism, Bolshevism, lies and betrayal, inflation, Locarno, Dawes Pact, Young Plan, corruption, Barmat, Kutistker, Sklarek , prostitution, terror, civil war.

"List 9" was the nazi election slate.






1932: "We women vote List 2"




1932: "Papen (then chancellor of germany) is crippling the economy! Every evening one hears on the radio that more workers are being laid off....Come to Hitler."

[Still a Democrat]

23. Envisioning it isn't the same as it happening

It hasn't.

[Erose999]

29. But there are those on the right stirring the hate cauldron... witness

the Governor of Alabama who said the other day to a church congregation:

"Now I will have to say that, if we don't have the same daddy, we're not brothers and sisters," he added, according to the paper. "So anybody here today who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I'm telling you, you're not my brother and you're not my sister, and I want to be your brother."

The Tennessee Tea Party are trying to scrub slavery and "the minority experience" from textbooks and classes:
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/01/13/founding_fathers_tennessee_tea_party

Also, we have a lot of mainstream Republicans are aligning themselves with hate-demagogues and hate groups like Pamela Gellar, Operation Rescue, the Oathkeepers, etc. You have guys outfitted like this showing up to rallies for people like Rand Paul:



It is already starting to happen. They may not claim allegiance to Nazism and Hitler but they are definitely trying to start a fascist, authoritarian, bigoted, Right Wing movement so I think the comparisons are valid.

[socialist_n_TN]

37. So your solution is to wait until it actually HAPPENS............

to do or say something? A little late then don'tcha think?

[StarsInHerHair]

98. you have an absolute belief, if it is ALWAYS wrong to use Nazis

nt

[Erose999]

26. If the jackboot fits...

and sometimes it does. Literally.



Third from left is Rich Iott. Ran for 9th district Ohio this past year and lost. Boehner (Speaker of the House)and others in the mainstream of the party campaigned for him.

[Bandit]

42. How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were "murdered"?

How many "concentration camps" Prisons with torture were set up.. Yes Republicans are quite capable of behaving like Nazis.. Anyone that justifies torture is comparable to Nazis IMO...

[progressiveinaction]

63. In the wake of the Loughner shooting

I thought we were going to tone down the rhetoric? :shrug:

[MrModerate]

78. And in light of that, yes, Cohen probably went too far . . .

Sheer passion is no substitute for passion and a carefully shaped argument that tells the truth and also keeps you on the high road.

However, I don't think we dare risk confusing civility with acquiescence: the 'Lican are already itching to put liberals/traitors (the two words are synonymous to many of them) in concentration camps. Many of the inmates of Guantanamo Bay were put there for no good reason whatsoever.

[sabrina 1]

65. Ask the Iraqi and Afghan people that question.

So far we've managed to slaughter about one million or more of them, incarcerate, torture and maim untold numbers of others.

At least two million Iraqis have been forced from their middle and upper-middle class homes into refugee camps and this country has contributed little to the cost of trying to help them.

Two million more are displaced and in constant danger in their own country.

In Afghanistan drones, a cruel, cowardly weapon that will and should one day be forbidden under International Law, daily kills women and children in Afghanistan and Pakistan and who knows were else.

Of course maybe the 'Crusade' begun and cheered on by Republicans is not as 'evil' since the victims are 'brown'?

And of course, it is not just Republicans any more.

I would say that slaughtering and torturing people who have been demonized as 'the other' certainly is comparable to what the Nazis did.

'Islamophobia' makes it okay to keep killing them.

Do you support these wars btw?

[Octafish]

70. Many of America's inner cities are like concentration camps.

How many children of color "get out" of Detroit?

[Hippo_Tron]

110. I would bet you a substantial amount of money that if Sarah Palin is elected

There will be no re-education camps. People were in mass hysteria over this stuff with the prospect of Bush's re-election in 2004 and none of it came true.

[SoCalDem]

3. The guy's premise was correct, but he went a bit too far

He should have stayed with the propaganda references & left the Nazi part out:)

This is why dems "lose" arguments..now his whole premise will be discounted:(

[sendero]

4. You mean...

...... the real travesties the GOP hasn't committed YET.

[mmonk]

6. He exaggerated concerning his point but Nazi references

are not wrong in themselves when it comes to power, behavior, and narratives with governments. Sometimes, there are historical parallels or echoes to actions governments take whether it be with Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, the Roman Empire, etc.

[Kolesar]

8. Hate the union organizers, gays, intellectuals, and artists

Sounds like fascist Spain.

[mmonk]

9. I can put you in touch with Naomi Wolf and you can tell her if you like.

[cali]

10. I don't think they're always wrong and in fact, I think Cohen's reference

was historically apt. BUT I do have a problem with it, and that is that it invariably automatically makes for a losing argument.

[Vickers]

11. Your concern is noted. n/t

[old mark]

13. When thbe GOP right is secure in iuts own forums, they are fond of plans

to kill us all-we certainly should start taking them seriously and not think they are all "living in mom's basement"...there are tooo many parallels to the rise of the Nazis-huge financial support from the corporations, control of the media, repeated lies sold as truth, emotional appeal over rational disrourse, catrering to hatred of those who are "different" and government surveillance and repression of those in opposition...We haver ALL of this in the US right now.
It was not just the camps-it was the entire insane "philosophy" and deadly control of diverging opinions and government by thugs.
We have that now, too.


mark

[mmonk]

14. A few things to think about:

Shock and awe = A term first used to describe Blietzkrig or Nazi Germany's "lightning war".
Embedded journalism = Created or first used extensively by Nazi Germany as a message control and propaganda mechanism.
Homeland = Comes from Germany's use of Heimatland
The People's Court = A extra judicial legal system from German law set up outside the rule of law to deal with "terrorism" threats from communists set up after the burning of the Reichstag.
The Enabling Acts = Parallels our Patriot Act in it gave extra power to the Chancellor to deal with terrorist threats.

[nebenaube]

15. Just look at the helmets... n/t

[mmonk]

17. There is some borrowing from that design.

It mainly provides extra protection.

[hobbit709]

16. Talk to my mother, she lived under it 1938-1945.

She'll tell you all about it.

[KharmaTrain]

18. Selective Use

The term fascism has been thrown around on all sides in recent years and it has lost a lot of its context thus negating the argument of the person who uses the term.

It's an easy term for people to grab when they think of repression...right or left...and either without context or contorted to serve their purpose. Even when there are comparisons there are those who will take the similarities and project them into massive conspiracies.

I tend to see what this government doing as imperialistic rather than fascist...protecting its "interests" and its influence on world events.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

20. At some point, even Hitler wasn't Hitler yet.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. The nazi party periodically marches in DuPage, Illinois

What do you want me to call them, instead?

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. I know... what Time called them in 1928...

Boy Scouts!

You asked.

[upi402]

22. We ignore history, we repeat it

This road looks familiar. It's the wrong direction. Time to say it out loud.



unrec for ignoring the elephant in the livingroom

[laundry_queen]

33. +1000

Not being able to use it as a reference means a lost opportunity to learn just how the Nazis came to be and how they came to, and kept, power.

[rko_24550]

60. +100000

[Dappleganger]

86. Exactly, we don't want to repeat those same atrocities again.

[Odin2005]

24. The shoe fits.

The Nazis of 1932 didn't look that bad, either.

[Rebubula]

56. yes...

...yes they did.

The state of our state is no where close to the Nazis in 1932

[Cid_B]

73. Now now..

Don't let historical facts get in the way of a good tantrum...

[robcon]

25. Cohen is an ass.

A disgrace to Congress.

Repuglicans are repugnant, but pulling out the Nazi card in Congress is shameful.

[EstimatedProphet]

27. All in all, I have to agree with you

The repubs are bad enough on their own. Trying to compare them to the Nazis makes a parody of the argument.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. As far as I know, the only thing the guy said about Republicans is they use the "Big Lie" technique.

It's not his fault the guy who codified the technique was a big Nazi.

Besides, he was right.

[EstimatedProphet]

51. True, he was right

Repubs have the same bullying characteristics. The problem comes in when the term Nazi comes out. "Nazi" will be enshrined as the evilest-of-evil descriptors for a long time to come. It's just how people think.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

30. I am weary of all the policing of people's metaphors and HOW they say things,

rather than discussing the actual issue they raised.

[WinkyDink]

31. May I introduce you to the NAZI (literally; no metaphor) PRESCOTT BUSH and his SON:

http://georgewalkerbush.net/bushnazidealingscontinueduntil1951.htm

After the seizures in late 1942 of five U.S. enterprises he managed on behalf of Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen, Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, failed to divest himself of more than a dozen "enemy national" relationships that continued until as late as 1951, newly-discovered U.S. government documents reveal.

Furthermore, the records show that Bush and his colleagues routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.

Bush's partners in the secret web of Thyssen-controlled ventures included former New York Governor W. Averell Harriman and his younger brother, E. Roland Harriman. Their quarter-century of Nazi financial transactions, from 1924-1951, were conducted by the New York private banking firm, Brown Brothers Harriman.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6843822

[Major Hogwash]

106. Thanks for those links.

Very informative.

[Vattel]

32. To compare is not to equate.

Cohen's comparison was accurate.

[EFerrari]

34. I think the comparison to Goebbels is precise and accurate.

It should be repeated every time they're caught pulling this sh!t.

And calling out bad behavior by its name is not what the Republicans do. They find ways to push their bigot base's buttons with outrageous language. There is no comparison here to what Cohen did.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. THAT comparison is accurate

Goebbels wrote the book on political deception.

[truebrit71]

35. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this..sometimes a spade is just a spade...

...the whole "he who first says nazi automatically loses" is false meme IMHO...there are times it is 100% spot on.

[Iggo]

36. Fuck tone. When it's right, it's right.

[theophilus]

38. Nazi references are NOT always wrong. Look at the context and THINK. n/t

[Still a Democrat]

79. The context is he was talking about HCR arguements

Did that rise to that level?

[treestar]

39. to me that depends

The Republicans may deserve it in some instances, as leading down that path. True they got no where close, but the way they used 911 as an excuse for ever more executive power would tend down that path, and it was not wrong to point that out. Fortunately they had little hope of success and did not. But I have no problem with the concept that Cheney and his ilk wanted that kind of power. And they attempted to do it by using 911 as their reichstag fire (thus the comparisons and conspiracy theories that they even caused it, which don't have to be true, in that the Rs used it over and over).

[Gold Metal Flake]

40. Your concern is noted.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. IBTL

[jdp349]

44. Nazi references are cliché

I generally assume the one making a nazi reference is dumb unless in the rare instance sufficient SIGNIFICANT parallels can be drawn, then I consider their argument.

[GSLevel9]

45. Agreed...

I'm reading a book right now about Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of Russia in 1941. And let me assure you... There's no comparison.
When a German combat division would roll thru a Russian village the German soldiers were mostly young men and fought the hard fight and captured the village and killed the Russian soldiers and moved on to the next village.
However... After the initial attack, a second wave of older 30-50 year old Polizei or SS soldiers would roll into town. Theses guys were the real face of Nazi Germany, they'd rape, pillsge and kill. German High Command ordered that NO German food or supplies were to be used for POW's or civilians.
I distinctly remember a story of a Russian sniper in an apartment building, he shot a couple German soldiers from the building. The SS soldiers pulled 300 people out of the building, mostly women, children and elderly and had them dig a long deep trench in the ground. They proceeded to order the civilians into the trench and shoot them. As the dead fell in orderly rows another group was ordered into position directly above the dead where they were shot. Crying children, teddy bears in hand... You get the idea.
In addition, you want to know the German policy on Russian POW's? Those healthy enough to work in a labor camp were sent in one direction and the rest of the group were killed.
The labor camp group was force-marched a few hundred miles with no food or water and most never made it to a labor camp to be worked to death.

So after all that... Who wants to draw paralells from Palin, Gingrich and Pence to real Nazi's?

[LanternWaste]

72. It does however beg the question...

It does however beg the question...

What were those same politicians, soldiers and political junkies doing and saying in 1933? 1936? 1937?

[qb]

46. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

- George Santayana

Representative Cohen is correct in pointing out tactics that are similar to those the Nazis used in their rise to power. It does not belittle Nazi travesties... it attempts to prevent their recurrence. What better way to honor the millions of victims?

[Forkboy]

47. unrec

[CTyankee]

76. Rec.

[Forkboy]

88. Well, you sure showed me!

:eyes:

[CTyankee]

91. oops. It looks like I misread something...my bad. I'm sorry...

[Forkboy]

92. Well now I feel bad.

This time you really did show me. No need for apologies. :(

[CTyankee]

102. Pleez don't! How would you know...my mistake...

hope all is well with you!

[steve2470]

48. If the Republicans employ Nazi-like tactics, so be it.

They are free to say it of us also, if it EVER would apply.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. FASCIST, not Nazi

Calling every fascist a Nazi is like calling every left-winger a Maoist.

[bemildred]

49. Inappropriate Nazi references are wrong.

Appropriate Nazi references are ... appropriate. It is WRONG to say that Nazi references are ALWAYS inappropriate.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. To call any contemporary figure a Nazi is IGNORANT

The Nazis were the most virulent form of the system known as fascism.

The Nazis were a specific FORM of fascism.

Just because the History Channel talks about the Nazis all the time doesn't mean that they were the only fascists who ever existed.
Ask Italy, Spain, Portugal, Japan, Myanmar, apartheid-era South Africa, and just about every Latin American country at one time or another.

The current Republicans are most definitely FASCISTS.

[Ichingcarpenter]

54. Rep.Cohen comparing GOP Lies To Goebbels' Propaganda

Was extremely appropriate

Goebbels was the master of the Fascist Propagandists

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. Yes, that was appropriate

But carelessly referring to the Republicans as Nazis seems like hyperbole.

[Ichingcarpenter]

58. The OP said this not your thing

Nazi references are wrong, I don't care who makes them

[Erose999]

59. Theres a difference between comparing and name calling. And the current batch of GOOP

are most definitely comparable to Nazi's in several instances. They (probably) aren't actually Nazis because they haven't sworn allegiance to Hitler or Germany or any past or current incarnation of Nazi party.

But then there's Rich Iott who dresses up in SS uniforms and claims its a "father-son bonding experience". I'm just gonna go ahead and call him a Nazi.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. So this is basically holocaust denial, you know?

You claim that recent history is not open for discussion, that we can not learn from what happened, that we must let it happen again out of some fear of calling wrong wrong?
The reference was a comparison of one set of propaganda to that of the evil master of propaganda. No one got called a Nazi.
This idea that there must be no reference to a war that involved my Father and Uncles is insulting. You want to deny the past, feel free. Not playing your game.

[bobthedrummer]

61. I'll make them in a non-totalitarian fascist nation (shadow government ruled) that I'm a citizen of

Never forget is more than a slogan to some of US. Corporate fascism is here, now. Militarism is here, now. Privatization of government, and everything else is here, now. Ultranationalism wrapped in racist politicized theology is here, now. Propaganda and domestic psy-ops are here, now. That's similar to the Nazis and the Axis powers of WWII to those of US that know history. It isn't totalitarian, yet what do you call people and organizations that literally idolize and imitate the Third Reich? Centrists??? Moderates???

What do you call the Nazis that were given American identities and jobs in "national security" shortly after WWII? Patriots???

What do you call that Nazi influence here today???

[emilyg]

62. I'm a survivor and agree 100%.

[Marr]

64. I'm sure it bothers you a lot.

[Turborama]

66. Thanks for promoting the link to my OP

It seems that the prominence you gave it in GD has helped it garner a a lot of recommendations. ;-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/index2.php

Thanks to all the crossover posters from this thread, too. :thumbsup:

[LanternWaste]

67. I believe when the analogy is apt...

I believe when the analogy is apt, it is more than appropriate to use them-- as analogies, by definition are not predicated on precise alignments or parallels, but rather on degrees.

I imagine you are also opposed to the term "Wage Slave" as it "Belittles the enormous travesties the real Slave Owners committed and do we want a better tone or not?", yes...?

ed: sp

[sabrina 1]

68. Over One Million Dead Iraqis!

I wouldn't call that 'trivial'.

But hey, they are the 'enemy' we are told.

'Treat the Iraqis like dogs' ~ Gen. Miller who also oversaw our torture program for 'the other'.

I am not sure how many we have to kill before it is considered no longer trivial.

I would say the comparison is apt.

Unrec'd for attempting to excuse the behavior of Republicans who certainly would have been more than comfortable, by their own admission btw, in an authoritarian country where they could simply remove all those they have been told to hate.

And this is why they keep doing it. People keep excusing it. Same thing in Germany. As many witnesses who were there when it was all beginning said, the progress towards the final evil did not happen all at once, it was incremental. And maybe if people had spoken up before it was too late, they might have been able to prevent it.

I'm for erring on the side of making sure it never happens again even if a few people are made to feel uncomfortable about spreading hate.

[Octafish]

71. Know your BFEE

Money Trumps Peace. Always.



Like a NAZI.



Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.

[Swamp Rat]

85. Who said "Money Trumps Peace?"

:think: Oh yeah, now I remember...



¡Órale, compay! :hi:

[Octafish]

87. George Walker Bush, scion from a long line of warmongers

You are my time's Heartsfield.



Know your BFEE: Scions of the Military Industrial Complex

¿¡Como handas, Compay Primero!? ¿To' bien?

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. I am a daughter of the holocaust

And after I listened to the WHOLE quote... it is on point.

Those who forget history and all that.

By the way... as horrific as the Holocaust was... it is NOT unique and we should get over the icky factor of actually USING the lessons from it. Mass propaganda techniques is one of the lessons. El Rushbo does it every day by the way.

[Major Hogwash]

105. Oh shit. I didn't know that.

I didn't ever see you say that before.
We have several Holocaust victims that live here, and every year we have a remembrance of it when we have a public meeting commemorating Anne Frank.

[Waiting For Everyman]

77. Tell that to the Repub Nazi re-enactor, Richard Iott.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/155309/election-choice-nazi-re-enactor-republican-v-sponsor-ww-ii-memorial-democrat

It reminds me of an old saying, "When somebody tells you who they are, believe them."

[jberryhill]

80. That's EXACTLY what the Nazi's said! /nt

[moondust]

81. Name-calling is one thing.

Making an apt comparison to a real historical precedent, in this case a propaganda tactic used most notably by Goebbels but possibly by others in world history, is something else. I don't have a problem with it. In fact it's better not to forget how the dark chapters of history got that way.

It's the hollow inflammatory name-calling that the Right often engages in that has no place in civil discourse.

[thotzRthingz]

82. I beg to differ with you... FASCISM (nazism is a subset) has already come to America:

It has been on its way for some time now, but really got rolling during DUBYA BUSH's fascist regime. Trampling on the LAW and CONSTITUTION... and unwavering deference toward corporations, OVER individuals... the corporations OWN U.S. politicians (which comprise a good portion of all three branches of the U.S. government).

* unchallenged, thus essentially legal, teabagger insurrection (as went 1930s Germany, so goes the 2000s USA)
- ref: http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/04/when-fascism-comes-to-america-it-will.html

* the rise of the Teabagger Republic (much likened to Hitler's 3rd Reich replacing the Weimar Republic) (emboldened by and now immovable, thanks to the recent USSC ruling)... Hitler gained support and power NOT through use of military migh, but through Germany's democratic processes.
- ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic

* Under Hitler, the State, not the individual, was supreme
- ref: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/dictator.htm

Look around you today... "the State" (is little more than corporate owned and operated government/politicians)... is considered supreme (by the USSC no less), not the "individual"... and RWWs & teabaggers rejoice and are emboldened by same. Change a few names (from 1930s Germany to today's CON politicians and talking heads), and perhaps the targets of hatred (democracy, blacks, muslims, gays, etc.)... and realize that right-wing wackos (including many teabaggers) are doing the same thing.

[ZombieHorde]

83. Quit being a Nazi reference Nazi!

Just kidding. I once suggested to one of my professors we should name a formal logical fallacy after the practice of comparing others to Nazis.

[NuclearDem]

94. Godwinning count?

[ZombieHorde]

95. Not bad. nt

[backscatter712]

104. There's two fallacies in play here, and that confuses people.

One fallacy is the obvious one - comparing someone or some group to the Nazis when such a comparison isn't justified. Yes, it happens a lot.

The second fallacy is that of wrongly calling out a comparison of a group to the Nazis as if it were an instance of the first fallacy, except in this case, the comparison with the Nazis actually fits, because a group is showing signs of the same moral corruption and destructive behavior, even though it may be in an early stage, where atrocities like mass murder haven't happened, yet...

In short, sometimes, the Nazi comparison fits.

[ZombieHorde]

109. "In short, sometimes, the Nazi comparison fits."

OK, I see your point.

The word Nazi has been misused in comparisons so many times, using it to make a fair comparison will seem like hyperbole. I think a person who wishes to use the Nazi label should offer concrete evidence (e.g. compare this Nazi ad with this Republican ad) along with the claim.

[Capitalocracy]

84. Here's my opinion on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szQOf7uH8II

[gulliver]

89. He should have said, "I'm not saying that Republicans are Nazis...

...but they do appear to be using a tactic that the Nazis were famous for giving a name, 'the Big Lie.' Nazis weren't the first to use it, and Republicans won't be the last. People need to be on guard against deceptions based on it."

[grahamhgreen]

90. It is important to note how the Nazi propaganda worked, and how the Repubs emulate it -

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”

- Joseph Goebbels

[Fool Count]

93. Yeah, sure, god forbid, we might learn any historical lessons from past

tragedies. "Civility" is more important.

[StarsInHerHair]

96. I strongly disagree, to "belittle" is not what's happening you seem to rspect

what happened then as a once time only occurrence. Maybe you can't believe Humans can be that cruel again. But you're wrong, some CAN be that cruel.

[Violet_Crumble]

97. So yr offended at just the mere mention of Goebbels?

Sorry, but I don't think drawing parallels to the propaganda of Goebbels is the same thing as shrieking at someone that they're a Nazi or saying that something is just like the Holocaust or worse than the Holocaust. Because US conservatives do the latter, and the latter is ugly and clumsy. But I think there's a real problem if people can't see the difference between the former and the latter.

Also, a few people in this thread have already mentioned this, but it's worth repeating again. We should all be learning from the Holocaust, not treating it like it's some unique thing that can't be discussed.

[saras]

99. Godwin's law is for obscure dweeb discussions

If you're debating varieties of Linux, or vi vs emacs, Godwin's law is a reasonable criticism.

If you're discussing fascistic politics, banning Nazi references is about as useful as banning references to violence in discussing pro football.

[mix]

100. I agree. We have our own totalitarianism.

It's called neoliberal capitalism.

That is the basis of our lies.

[RedCloud]

101. So we should all forget how the repugs of the past,Prescott Bush, plotted with the fascists.

Just stick our heads in the sand.

Let's also forget how the USA let Nazis enter and set up the CIA and we went on a Red Scare for several decades and not one second on a Nazi scare.

And may I remind you the fascists killed over 57,000,000 Europeans?

And here 100,000,000 Native Americans slaughtered over five centuries? And a similar number of Africans?

[backscatter712]

103. The only difference between the American far-right and the Nazis is opportunity.

The Nazis had the opportunity to commit mass murder, and did so.

The GOP doesn't have the political power, yet, to be able to mass-murder people with impunity. But if they had the opportunity to gain that power, don't think for a second that they wouldn't take that power, then exercise it. Psychologically and ethically, they're the same. They'll do absolutely anything to acquire and retain power, including mass-murder if they thought they could get away with it.

Even the Nazis had to work for years clawing for the levers of power before they could mass-murder people without blowback. The GOP is working very hard to get that power.

And they're getting closer.

Sorry, but I'm calling a spade a spade.

[trud]

108. no they aren't

Do you doubt for one second that the Israelis would like to have and are doing their best to eradicate every Palestinian? The victims become the perpetrators, just as so often happens in child abuse.