The only reason OWS should NOW come up with solid demands.

[FarLeftFist]

Is to counter-act all of the RW smears that are being hurled against them. I saw Newt Gingrich criticizing OWS and calling them "radicals" and "uncivilized", this coming from a man has who openly mentioned right-wing social engineering and has a disturbing past. We could put these RW morons in their place by simply saying: Which sounds more radical, a group that wants only to live by at least the same standards as the rest of the civilized world or someone that wants to abolish central banking and go back to the gold standard? What is so entitled about wanting the same education, healthcare, quality of living, etc. as other countries that are blowing right past us? Who is more radical, US who wants criminals to be regulated, or YOU who wants them to continue to raid and pillage our country and our citizens?

I believe the time has come to get back on message and leave these RW politicians between a rock and a hard place. We could have the support of the entire country behind us. We know OWS stands for these things amongst many other demands but we need to get the message out to the public. We need our citizens storming into republican offices and town-halls furious at their elected officials. We know we are right about this, we just need to fine-tune the message to reach the masses. We need to put the RW politicians on the defensive while we take the offensive. Never again should Newt be able to say that about OWS without his constituents shouting him down. We need a solidified message like we had at the beginning. We are the 99%.

Edit: We want uplifting social changes that will benefit the entire country and our citizens, they (republicans) want to dismantle the entire country. Who's the radical?

[Philosopher King]

1. "I believe the time has come to get back on message..."

As far as I can tell, there has never been a cogent message. That has been their problem from the beginning.

[FarLeftFist]

2. The message was income inequality and how it is/was caused.

Among many other messages which is fine, but for this movement to continue to win populist support it needs to refine the message again. This country has short term memory and needs things drilled into their skulls. This movement needs to re-affirm that they are standing up for ALL people, not just themselves.

[Philosopher King]

3. An appealing and articulate spokesperson would be helpful as well.

They may not like it, but public relations is extremely important for this type of movement.

[FarLeftFist]

4. I agree. It is time for a spokesperson and public relations.

That's not a bad thing. That means the movement has evolved and gotten so big that it needs direct organization. I view that as a good thing. They should be very proud of this and I believe now is the time to act. Personally I would nominate Jesse LaGreca.

[Kingofalldems]

40. Well that's very familiar--seems I have read that before

[Hutzpa]

48. You know that right

using another handle, they can circumvent don't cha ya know.

[EFerrari]

5. Or maybe you could stop watching Newt Gringrich.

:)

#OWS is forcing people to abandon the noise machine to get information. That's as it should be.

[HappyMe]

7. Ows isn't forcing any such thing.

There are still people that are interested in what the other side has to say. Know thy enemy.

[EFerrari]

18. Um, Republicans are not the "other side" of #OWS

and you don't really learn anything from propaganda. Yes, the corporate media is losing viewers every day. We don't need to prop them up. I won't, that's for sure.

[HappyMe]

21. I was talking about the Presidential election, not ows.

The reason newty is blathering on at all.

[EFerrari]

30. I wouldn't know and couldn't care less if or that he's talking. nt

[FarLeftFist]

9. Me not watching Newt won't make him go away. We need to start converting people, not just

Preaching to the choir. When OWS began it had the support of 68% of Americans, that number is now down to 32%. What good is it to have people sleeping in the snow if their message isn't getting heard?

[EFerrari]

19. #OWS is growing, no matter what spin Democratic party pollsters

try to put on it. :)

[FarLeftFist]

24. The numbers are growing but support seems lower. We could change that.

With a solidified message people will lend us their ears for even further causes. But we must first get them on our side. Let them know that our fight is their fight as well.

[EFerrari]

29. I don't think #OWS needs to message like mainstream politicians

in order to be heard. If the numbers are growing, support is growing despite the presstitutes attempts to disappear it.

[FarLeftFist]

31. I personally believe it's time to go mainstream with the message.

Something that affects 99% of us should be a mainstream movement. We should welcome it.

[PETRUS]

6. When you say demands, what do you mean?

Are you suggesting OWS forward specific proposals, or tighten up the list of grievances?

My thoughts are that OWS is in part a reaction to the fact that we are not arriving at solutions democratically. Legislation is hashed out behind closed doors by lobbyists and in think tanks and foundations, and handed off to a beholden congress. Congress puts on a nice little show when the bills are discussed, but that debate is generally characterized by what Freud called "the narcissism of minor differences" and only one or two of our representatives actually think outside of the very narrow boundaries prescribed by the PTB. OWS can help by identifying the problems and calling attention to the fact that the possible solutions are much more varied than the PTB allows. But I think it would be counterproductive for the movement to tell the public "this is what should be done," except maybe in certain instances. I'd like to see it continue to expose the farce and encourage more public participation in the debate.

And by the way, anyone who suggests that it's a problem for OWS that they don't have "a clear message" or a list of demands has a difficult case to make. In two short months the movement has grown from a few hundred people, drawing countless thousands into the streets in hundreds of cities across the country. Likewise, most anyone still claiming they don't understand the basic message is either being dishonest and attempting to discredit the movement or exists in seriously removed bubble. OWS does have problems, and could do some things better, but the only real difficulties it's been facing are not of its own making. The main problems stem from the vast resources of the PTB.

[FarLeftFist]

12. I completely agree it has grown, but support has diminished. There's nothing wrong with fine-tuning

The message. Every single progressive movement had at least one clear goal amongst many others. We need to not just strengthen the movement in numbers but also messaging. Just my opinion.

[PETRUS]

17. Do you think it would be workable

...for OWS to say "the first issues we want addressed are X, Y, & Z" but be clear that things don't end there? That is, identify some priorities (and indicate that future steps are TBD and dependent upon conditions and further consensus).

I'm putting aside the question of how to coordinate the various satellites. Let's just say, for example, the NYC GA issued a statement. Maybe they could ask for other GAs to consider endorsing it.

[FarLeftFist]

27. That could work. If we want to change something we must do so in numbers.

The Civil Rights Act was passed because they stayed on message.

[Edweird]

8. "We". LOL

[FarLeftFist]

10. Yes, WE. Whats so LOL about that?

[HappyMe]

13. +1

[Edweird]

50. Because you must have a mouse in your pocket.

[Enrique]

11. they're bigger than Newt Gingrich

they need to be strategic and I'm sure they are, but I see no strategic purpose for responding to Newt Gingirch's characterization of them. His comments are more about his campaign for president and book sales and general self-promotions, more than a serious threat to OWS.

[FarLeftFist]

14. Oh I agree, F Newt, they shouldn't respond to his remarks but subvert him by

Turning the populace away from his train of thought. Anyone fighting FOR the 1% should be made to felt shamed. Even the 1%.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Attempting to model your actions and messages in a way that

prevents the right wing and moderates from slandering is a fool's errand. Newt will slam OWS no matter what OWS does or does not do. Your theory that people like Newt need even a shred of truth to attack with is incorrect.
Let me ask you about some things the right has said. Obama born in Kenya. Based on nothing at all, they just said it. Obama is a socialist. Hilarious, but they say it, even when he is pushing Republican policy facets. The right needs no basis in fact, and trying to trap them into honesty is absurd. It can not be done, as they are not honest. Newt is not being honest now, he would not be honest if OWS did all the things you say and more.
Republicans lie about liberals because Republicans are liars, not because liberals are not doing it correctly.

[FarLeftFist]

16. We just need to turn people away from Newt's train of thought altogether.

Let them lie, but we will have an awakened populace ready to see right through his bullshit. We don't need to suppress the GOP, just subvert them.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Ah, but you did not respond to what I wrote, kiddo.

Look, as a gay man, I am used to hearing blather from right wingers and moderates that says 'you guys act too gay and you need to stop having parades with drag and leather if you want those who hate you to take you seriously'. It is always bullshit. They hate us 'cause they hate us. Newt would bash OWS if the General Assembly came up with a consensus cure for the common cold. It is his job to slander them.

[FarLeftFist]

22. Im not trying to get Newtie on our side, I'm trying to get the entire 99% on our side

Of course their will always be opposition but the least we could do is make the opposition continue to look bat-shit crazy by converting the masses to our/their cause.

[golddigger]

23. I have an idea. Why don't the people who think that

#OWS should start having a list of demands and a leader start their own movement?

[FarLeftFist]

25. Because we all share a common goal.

It's not that OWS doesn't have a platform, they very much do, we just need to strengthen and re-affirm that platform so others will be supportive of the cause.

[JackRiddler]

34. The funny part is that the Occupy "demands" have always been obvious.

You don't have to be there long or spend much time looking at pictures of the signs people are holding to get it. All of it's related. Just the name already says two things: that the ruling institutions are illegitimate and won't respond, unless you occupy rather than merely protest or vote (nothing against voting - not much for it either). And that the target is the high finance industry - Wall Street. If you have to figure out why Wall Street at this point, after the biggest fraud in all history was executed publicly with trillions of dollars defrauded and the perpetrators rewarded and allowed to take charge of the government in all the ways that count, then I feel sorry for you.

Putting the Wall St. bankers on trial for the housing securities fraud complex (mortgage paper fraud, ratings agency fraud, violation of fiduciary responsibility to clients, derivatives frauds) would be kind of an obvious consensus demand for all OWS protesters and supporters. And a necessary beginning toward restoring any kind of widespread confidence in institutions and markets, if that's possible, and allowing a real economic recovery (an economy based on fraud will never again have confidence).

But wait, that's not going to happen because the ruling institutions are owned by Wall Street and are, in fact, devising ways to give MORE POWER to the financial industry and do their bidding with austerity for the many, riches for the few.

Hence, rather than making any more "demands" that won't be heard, it's time to OCCUPY. This is what people have left as a serious option to at least be heard. All else has been closed off to them. (It's true that a fake grassroots movement can still get things done via the route of elections and lawmaking -- as long as their revolutionary demands are nothing more than to make the status quo even worse, like the Tea Partiers).

Otherwise, people who want to understand, know that this is about ending the power of money in politics. Break up the TBTFs. Stop foreclosures. Mark to market. Re-regulate banking (Glass-Steagal, derivatives regulation, etc.). Tax the rich (once again). End the wars and pull back the empire, spend on the people instead. Spend for jobs, not corporate subsidies. Public campaign finance, abolition and limits on the many forms of legalized bribery in elections and legislatures and regulatory agencies.

It's all mere rocket science, you know?*



---

* Since millions of people know rocket science and it's based on math and physics taught at every university, I refuse that particular cliche.

Brain surgery: now that's hard.

.

[Demeter]

42. +15 Trillion Brazillion

[Change has come]

35. Or, go to their local general assembly

and voice their concerns. Heck, they could even vote for their own proposals!

[mmonk]

26. The demand should be economic justice and stay there.

No media pundits or pols can pick it apart. Injustice requires no demand other than that.

[FarLeftFist]

28. EXACTLY, and that is where it began. We need to keep drilling this into peoples heads.

And shame on those who disagree with the message and factual evidence of income inequality. It would also unify the 99% and put the opposition on the defensive. Great idea.

[BoWanZi]

32. I hate to say it but a demand of economic justice is like the demand of no more wars, unrealistic

What I mean is that economic justice is a grandiose and noble goal just like demanding no more wars but in reality, its not attainable. You have to produce truly realistic demands that can be attained and which are not just emotion based.

I would love to live in a society where there is economic justice for all but OWS needs concrete realistically attainable demands/goals that are not pie in the sky demands that just sound good on paper/soundbites but can't be implemented with out massive change to all of society.

I remember reading early in the OWS movement a page of demands that was posted and one of them was something like the abolishing/forgiveness of all pubic and private debt world wide by the banking industry. I was blown away by the sheer audacity of something like that coming to fruition. Would it even be conceivable of something like that ever happening in modern worldwide society without causing economic collapse?

Those kind of demands that sound good on paper but which could not be implemented realistically are not good demands for OWS, the mainstream public won't take them seriously. Like I said, its like demanding no war, sounds awesome on paper but realistically would never be able to be put in place.

[mmonk]

39. Like Civil Rights?

[mmonk]

41. The problem with making a list demanded from the outside is you give

politicos and their minions in the press a target to attack. For example, a single payer health is realistic but considered unrealistic by most politicians. Too early to put the ball back on their turf yet. It takes some time for realization and then conversation to occur. If you list something, list the injustices. Debate on them will reveal what is apparent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. SHHH they have, for a while now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8o3peQq79Q

I could also post the link to the common sense for the 99%

Oh wait, here it is

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2341693

[BoWanZi]

36. That sounds like a list of complaints but I didn't hear any realistic demands

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. My lord good thing Thom Paine did not publish Common Sense

In 2011.

No serious, the declaration of independence is also a list of grievances and implied demands.

[FarLeftFist]

45. Those are all great points.....That need public relations.

It's time to start converting the masses.

[Bennyboy]

38. Help publish the Declaration of Occupy Wall Street

Media outlets have attempted to dismiss Occupy Wall Street as a movement without a message. This baseless indictment falls apart once you have read their declaration, and this is why we think it is so important to publish it and distribute it widely!

We are going to need your help to reach our goal of printing and distributing 100,000 copies!

This document is the first and only official declaration to come from the New York City General Assembly at Liberty Plaza, the epicenter of the Occupy Wall Street Movement. It is a summation of the grievances expressed by the occupiers, it is a call to action, and moreover it is a historic mile marker in the global fight for social, environmental, and economic justice. The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City, as transcribed and edited by Ryan Hoffman, Lex Rendon, and the Call to Action Working Group of Occupy Wall Street is a powerful reference for blossoming social struggles everywhere. In this second printing of 100,000 copies we will be including two other texts from the New York General Assembly, The Principals of Solidarity, and OWS' Statement of Autonomy, we also will be including a letter from the activists at Tahir Square to the Occupiers at Zuccotti Park. The Declaration of the Occupation, The Statement of Autonomy, and The Principals of Solidarity, are reflections of every voice amplified by the people’s mic at the NYC General Assembly at Liberty Square. You own this document. ...Everyone owns it.

Please consider donating to our printing and distribution, and please share this fundraising effort with others on facebook, twitter, tumblr, etc... We love you!
You can read the declaration in its entirety here - http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1385231108/help-publish-the-declaration-of-occupy-wall-street

[applegrove]

43. The message is one from a multitude of voices. It has to do with

the rich buying government and making it suit only their own narrow interests. The message is organic. It bubbles up. With no leadership the authoritarians in the GOP have no way of buying out or destroying the movement. We need to stick to what works. Coming up with a few messages would just divide us. And we don't want that. We are the 99%.

[FarLeftFist]

47. There are many messages, but one stands out universally among OWS: Income inequality

[RetroLounge]

44. Maybe you could go join them and let them know?

:rofl:

RL

[FarLeftFist]

46. I've been there 9x already.

[RetroLounge]

49. and what is your list of demand?

Why aren't you their spokesman? Their Leader?

:shrug:

RL