Stores that open on holidays and pay their employees holiday pay

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Posted because MSNBC has a story coming up over the "outcry" over stores opening on Thanksgiving evening.

My feeling is that if people want to shop, and employees at those stores want to work, and the stores pay them holiday pay for doing so, what's the issue?

YOUR thoughts?

[Ilsa]

1. They may be offered holiday pay, but they may not be easily able

to refuse the assignment.

Frankly, I think stores are open too much. Just close them one day. It might be beneficial for people to learn to wait a day for shopping gratification.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

2. Assumption of the poll is willing employees receiving a fair wage

I wouldn't expect anyone to sign off on employees being forced to work on a holiday, regardless of the pay.

I don't work in retail, but if I did, and my manager offered me holiday pay to come in and work on Thanksgiving, I'd grab it in a heartbeat.

So this is an "all parties in agreement" poll...shoppers want to shop, store wants to sell, employees want holiday pay.

:toast:

[bulloney]

23. Thanks to our lust for 'stuff,' Thanksgiving has been degraded to Black Friday Eve.

The sheer stupidity of this whole Christmas shopping mindset we have in this country shows our ignorance in full bloom:

Staying out overnight in freezing temperatures outside a store for hours just so you have a shot at buying that "stuff" the store has deliberately stocked in limited supply to promote this stupidity;

The materialism that overtakes our minds during the season;

Totally forgetting what the Christmas season is all about;

Bastardizing Thanksgiving Day.

And we're supposed to be this enlightened, god-fearing society whose religion, we think, is superior to other faiths. Yet we bastardize the birthday of the person we worship into some month-long over-commercialized, materialistic free-for-all...with football.

Couldn't agree with you more, Ilsa.

[LWolf]

3. What if they don't want to work on the holiday, and the store

takes punitive action against them for not working?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

4. That's not what this poll is about

Look at the poll, look at my comments above.

The poll assumes:

1). Shoppers want to shop

2). Store wants to sell

3). Employees WANT to work, and are paid a fair holiday wage for doing so.

Given those variables...and NO OTHER VARIABLES...are DUers on board with it, or do they object to the concept, even if all of the above conditions are met?

Some people simply object to the concept of working on a holiday, especially in retail, no matter what the scenario. That's what this poll is addressing.

Things like punitive action for employees who don't want to work belong in another poll, not this one.

[rfranklin]

7. so,basically, it is a poll about conditions in a fairytale land far, far away...

because that set of conditions does not exist in the USA.

[HappyMe]

9. What?

Of course those conditions exist.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

12. I know employers who have this relationship with their employees

They pay them very well.

They treat them very well.

And if they ask them to do something extra, they pay them a fair wage for it.

The employers are happy.

The employees are happy.

Yeah...I know people like that.

:-)

[HappyMe]

14. Dude, I wasn't disagreeing with you.

I have worked in places like that. Worked on holidays, made the extra chaching, and was given a bonus too!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

19. No, I know you weren't...apologies if I gave that impression.

[HappyMe]

22. It's all good. I misinterpreted. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

45. I worked for 10 years in retail...

if those conditions exist, they are few and far between.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

10. Oh, that's fucking bullshit and you know it.

Thanks for taking the time to lift your leg in my thread, and welcome to my ignore list.

[Codeine]

41. Huh?

I just did it that way at our store. Nobody was required to work that day -- younger people without kids volunteered to work Thanksgiving so they could make some extra cash for the holidays or whatever. Had I lacked volunteers I'd have left the doors shut that day.

[LWolf]

17. I know what the poll assumes.

I also know that my son will be working on Thanksgiving, not because he wants to, but because he wants to keep his job.

I have no objection to working on a holiday by choice. THAT, though, assumes some protections for those who don't choose to do so.

[xmas74]

38. My brother is in the same boat.

He'll be working at night on Thanksgiving, cutting into his family's holiday, so everyone can buy a bunch of crap not made in America that will fall apart within months of purchase.

[LoZoccolo]

20. That might be what your poll is about, but then that wouldn't be

what the outrage being covered by the media is about. I imagine more employees than normal are needed during these big sales, and a lot of people have to work who don't want to.

[Beaverhausen]

37. Having worked retail, at the holidays the workers don't get a choice

it's work the days you are scheduled or you are out.

So your poll makes assumptions that most likely aren't a realistic scenario.

Also, the friday after thanksgiving is not technically a holiday so why would stores pay holiday pay?

[awoke_in_2003]

44. it may not be what the poll is about...

but it is the reality of the situation. I work at a flight training center, and we lease 3 of our simulators to a major airline. They train 365 days a year. In my department (sim support) there is no volunteering to work- it is mandatory. There has to be at least two people there on Thanksgiving, an I am lucky because I requested it off early enough. Two of my co-workers are not so lucky- and if they don't show up, there will be punitive measures. Retail is no different, and with the economy the way it is, who can afford to lose a job?

[pitohui]

29. the only guy whining is mad because he can't get drunk on tday

the news story i saw involved a young man who would have ALL DAY w his family since his shift would not start untill 11 pm on tday

he's pissed because he planned to drink beer in front of football games all fucking day

fire his lazy ass and give somebody who really wants a job the chance

[LWolf]

34. I'm not talking about some sound bite on the tv news.

I'm talking about plenty of people.

We're having Tgiving at 10:00 in the morning to accommodate my son's work schedule. He isn't "whining." We're just doing it. He's working because it's mandatory that he do so to keep the job.

[xmas74]

39. My brother is angry too.

He's just not in front of a television talking about it.

He cooks Thanksgiving dinner for his family. They now have to rearrange their schedules, including the out of town guests, to a much earlier time.

[kcass1954]

42. From the school of been there, done that...

If his shift STARTS at 11 pm, he may need to take a nap before he goes in. It's probably not going to be a "family" nap.

[Enrique]

5. it's useful for people that want an excuse

"sorry, I'd love to come, but I have to work." :thumbsup:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

13. True. For me, sometimes the best way to observe a holiday is to not observe a holiday.

I'm not trying to paint a picture of a sobbing child sitting next to a turkey carcass, sobbing, wailing "MOMMY, WHY ISN'T DADDY HERE WITH US FOR THANKSGIVING?"

Like I said elsewhere in the thread...I am not working in retail right now, but if I were, I would be willingly and eagerly working on Thanksgiving day for holiday pay.

[HappyMe]

6. Hell yeah, I would work.

I have worked holidays in retail, catering, and in kitchens. Extra pay is always welcome.

[tularetom]

8. The free market trumps everything else doncha know

If people demand that the stores be open so they can give their last few remaining cents to the retailers and bankers, they should be open.

If they open up and nobody shows up, that may turn out to be a valuable lesson for the 1%. Am economy based on consumerism won't function when the majority of the citizens are unable to consume.

Eventually it's going to bite them in the ass. Maybe this will be the first nip.

Thanksgiving is getting to be a big hassle anyway.

[HappyMe]

11. Fairytale conditions. nt

[GoneOffShore]

15. I just don't get it.

We've created a retail monster - the shop till you drop society where anyone can go out and buy anything any time.

There really is no need for stores to be open all hours. Sure, it's convenient. For the shopper. Not so much for the people working in the store.

Thinking back to when I worked retail in the UK many years ago: We opened at 9 A. Closed at 6. Closed on Sunday and half day closing on Wednesday.

Christmas Eve we closed at 3P then stayed closed until the 27th. New Year's Eve we closed early, and didn't open again until the 2nd or 3rd depending on when the holiday fell.

Plus we closed on bank holidays.

The law used to mandate half day closing for retail outlets.

[Travis_0004]

16. I think for the most part, stores should be closed on Thanksgiving

First off I doubt a lot of stores that are open, the majority of employees want to be there. For the most part, you are given a schedule, and if they are open on Thanksgiving, you have to show up.

Is it really asking too much to close 2 days a year? (Christmas as well)?

I know there are a lot of professions that do work Holdays, growing up my dad was a police officer and was usually gone on Thanksgiving or Christmas, but obviously those are professions where it is required, the employees are usually well compensated, and people choose to pursue those professions knowing that you have to work holidays. Retail employees often work there because its the best opportunity they have. I worked in Retail a few months ago, and there is no way I would go in to work on Thanksgiving.

But it really comes down to the shoppers habits. I won't shop on Thanksgiving, so if nobody shops, stores won't find it profitable to be open.

[daleanime]

18. Employee 'free will'?

:rofl:

[awoke_in_2003]

46. +1000...

"employee free will" is one of the funniest things I have ever read on the internet.

[Modern_Matthew]

21. At Wal-Mart, it's an automatic firing if you call in on Black Friday...

There is no "choice"...

That is the outcry.

[HappyMe]

24. The thing is, if you take

a job in retail, a restaurant, UPS, FedEx etc. you have to know that you are going to be scheduled before, after or on a holiday.

[Modern_Matthew]

33. I am lucky enough to work in a section of my Walmart that's closed on Thanksgiving...

But I am still outraged that my coworkers have to suffer 12-hour shifts and a choke-it-down-and-go Thanksgiving dinner.

All because some brainless consumers can't wait to get their hands on the latest imports from China.

[HappyMe]

35. 12 hour shifts?

I worked for Walmart when I lived in WI. There aren't any 12 hour shifts.

[treestar]

26. Black Friday I can understand that being important to retailers

It has become another tradition. But I wouldn't cry if Walmart were closed on Thanksgiving Day itself.

[treestar]

25. As long as the person has the option to refuse

Then OK. I for one would never go shopping on that day - it's the shoppers I question more! Doctors and nurses may have to work on that day, cops and firemen, but other activities - I have to wonder about the person that would shop. Christmas, I would say, some Americans aren't Christians, so that's understandable. But even immigrants from varying cultures - I would like it if they considered the 4th and Thanksgiving holidays.

[pitohui]

27. i would love to be hired to work at double or triple time

considering how many of us out here are unemployable, i don't really care about babies crying when they have an opportunity to make double/triple time

my husband and his co-workers love to grab the opportunities for double/triple time but these opportunities go to the senior and most aggressive employees

believe it or not, some people work to make money and a chance to make double/triple for your efforts is not to be scorned, at least not in this household

for those too rich to need the money, might i suggest they resign instead of whine, so that somebody who is more willing can be given the chance?

even time and a half is not scorned around here, these overtime chances come more and more rarely in the 21st c. economy

[LiberalEsto]

28. If we truly valued families in this country

we would give people holidays off to spend time with their loved ones.

[pitohui]

30. the whiner in the news story has all DAY w. his family, his shift starts at 11

don't make this about family

it's about beer, because he will be working later he can't get loaded

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Unless the law REQUIRES holiday pay premiums, shift differential for those wee hour openings,

and provides employees with an absolute right to refuse work on said holidays, my feeling is the stores should stay closed. It's too easy for "voluntary" employment to become mandatory on holidays otherwise.

eta: holiday premiums should be at least double normal wage. My union working father got triple pay for holidays way back in the dark ages.

[NYC Liberal]

32. Where I used to work, we got double pay on holidays and

had so many people working there that they never needed to force anyone to work; there were enough people who wanted to be working that it was all 'volunteer'.

[HopeHoops]

36. As long as the shift is VOLUNTARY, there's no problem with it.

Christians work on holidays of other religions. Non-Christians should have the right to get holiday pay if they really don't care about the holiday in the first place or even if they just want to work that day. Immigrants (set aside legal/illegal) probably don't give a rats ass about Thanksgiving. And not everybody celebrates a "holiday" on the specified date anyway. We, for example, always do Thanksgiving meals on Friday. It's really simple - it gives us all day Thursday to prepare for the meal, a leisurely time on Friday putting it together, and there's no way in hell you're going to get us anywhere NEAR a store on black Friday.

This year for example, my eldest daughter (20) is spending Thursday with her boyfriend's family and then both of them are coming up on Friday to celebrate with us. Christmas? You can't be everywhere at once! Christmas morning is still "Santa was here" time, but all of the kids are old enough that it has just been a fun time to surprise everyone else with something unexpected. The dogs and cats still think Santa got past them somehow and show just as much excitement as young children. That's always made me laugh.

It sort of goes back to the old blue laws. PA JUST started allowing motorcycle sales on Sunday. Only the largest liquor stores are open and only from 12-5. Cars still cannot be sold on Sunday. Hunting still isn't allowed on Sunday. As a kid, I don't really remember any stores being open except for 7-11 and WaWa convenience stores. Restaurants often were, mostly fast food though, and a lot of restaurant/bar places still are closed on Sunday, including my favorite bar (within walking distance).

A weird thing I've noticed is "closed Sunday and Monday". I've seen a lot of restaurants that operate that way, with and without bar facilities. Maybe it is to make up for people having to work weekends. I personally find the weekend to be more valuable than any specific holiday date. My eldest has worked at a local frozen-custard shop for two years now (when she's home from college) and often works evening shift on weekends. I can't count how many times that's hosed up plans we had to do things as a full family.

As for TARGET: I used to shop there, but that was before I found out they were contributing a shitload to far right-wing campaigns and organizations. That place is lumped in with WalMart now as a "do not enter unless there's nowhere else to pee" building. I don't mind using it for that purpose - it seems fitting.

[Codeine]

40. Before I wrote our Thanksgiving schedule

I put a sign-up sheet on the wall for volunteers. Enough people asked to work that day that I was able to give them all half-shifts so they could come in for a while and still have time with family. When I was younger I always volunteered to work Thanksgiving and Christmas because I didn't have kids and liked the extra pay.

[SomethingFishy]

43. People have money to shop?

Wow.