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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:36 PM
Original message
Obama's Monumental OWS Dilemma
Edited on Sat Nov-19-11 05:36 PM by The Doctor.
As I understand it, President Obama has been out of the country for 9 days. He will have been roughly a week and a half out of the US by the time he returns.

During that week and a half, we have seen the OWS movement lose no steam at all. Also, we have seen the 'authorities' ramp up the arrests, evictions, and brutality against even demonstrators who violated no laws. We've seen them assault and arrest young women who posed no threat and the elderly while still in wheelchairs. They've brutalized countless civilians and come far too close to outright killing people for doing nothing more than walking by or taking pictures in public areas.

There is no question that the establishment has exceeded its authority.

Barack Obama said this of the protests in Egypt;

"I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters.

The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere."



Obviously, he was free to do so. There would be little or no fallout from Egyptian media that could affect his reelection. He was unlikely to single-handedly cause an escalation in the conflict. And of course, it was the right statement to make.

Now the protest is here, and it is different because it's not a protest over Obama being a corrupt tyrant in a 5th decade of rule. It is the same because it is about the inherent corruption of the establishment of power in this country. That establishment, like it or not, is one that Obama has no choice but to work within as President. We've seen him work to do good. Anyone who argues that he has not made great efforts to do so is either ignorant of his actual record or disingenuous. It is therefore fair to assume that he does want what is right for The People.

Unfortunately, the world is not nearly as simple as we would like it to be.


He really only has 4 choices in how to address the OWS movement. The first two are the most typical of a political creature, and I'm sad that they are likely the best choices he has;

1) Say nothing, do nothing, just ignore the movement.

This is a bad idea because he would be seen as too trepid and worthless. Even his supporters would feel abandoned. The people would begin losing hope, and the calls to "Do something!" would be the epitaph of a suddenly weak and moribund Presidency.

2) Speechify about the freedom of speech and civil disobedience, make vague references about the 'shameful' violence that has occurred 'on both sides', while urging 'investigations' to preserve the peace and bring the perpetrators to justice, yada-yada. There will also likely be undertones trying to communicate support as he's done before.

Naturally, this is a terrible idea. It will open up the cries of 'what a 'triangulating' politician he is!' and how it's just 'lip service' and he's "not on our side!". Basically, all the same rigamarole we've been hearing from everyone that would love to tear him down.

3) Come down against 'civil disruption' and in favor of 'working within the system'.

This, of course, would be an absolutely horrible idea because it would alienate everyone sympathetic to the 99% and OWS without gaining one ounce of support from everyone who doesn't like him to begin with. 'nuff said.

4) Come down on the side of OWS and the 99%.

This would be the single worst thing he could possibly do.

Yes, I hear all the scoffing and derision. I could even see some of the faces so many just made at that.

But it's the truth. Here's why;

In that one moment, he would do the single most dangerous thing a President can do; scare the 'PTB' or the 0.1% who hold all the power. He would galvanize the fears of the ignorant wingnuts. He would, for all appearances, prove Rush Limbaugh and Faux 'News' RIGHT in the minds of their audiences. He would bring that national divide into cold-snap focus and crack the nation in half along partisan lines in not only a permanent way, but a dangerous way. The wingnuts would be in the streets with guns and we'd be at the brink of civil war. The PTB would stop at nothing, let me repeat so the meaning is understood; stop at nothing to break the nation, depose the President (or worse) and install the fascist system they've been setting in place for years, and they'd have the people and firepower to do it.

Don't think so? Look around. They already have the wingnuts so brainwashed that Obama is 'coming for them' and going to put them in FEMA camps that gun sales have been through the roof since '08.

I'll admit that it's possible that such a fate would be avoided. That Obama, with the enormous support of the 99%, would stay firmly ensconced in the White House with the will and the mandate to end the march to fascism for good. I would love to believe that. But the people with the power will not stand for it.

I would love for Obama to take option 4. I would love to see him reinvigorate the middle class. But we know who the enemy is and how ruthless they are. So instead, he will likely take option 2. That way he won't frighten the insecure .1%, he won't have difficulty being reelected, and he will have the opportunity to do more (and perhaps even greater) good for the next four year term.

There's no 'good' choice for Obama right now, but there are a couple of 'right' ones.

And that's his dilemma to deal with. Let's hope we don't have to deal with it too.

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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. OWS is ignoring him. The movement moves forward. nt
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And well they should.
He's proven his leadership quite well so far.

How do I regret voting for him? Let me COUNT the ways!

:grr:
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I'm glad he's there rather than a pig like Newt Gingrich, for ex. However... !!! nt
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I have no doubt.
This ain't ending anytime soon. In fact, I'm thrilled that it's apparently happened almost 6 years earlier than the PTB expected. This is ultimately a good thing. What Obama does with it won't stop the movement, but it might trigger other actors we don't want triggered at all.

Or maybe we do. I just don't know what the outcome would be because it's difficult to know for certain that they aren't ready.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. This is the most powerful movement I've ever experienced in my country. I'm thrilled! nt
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I don't see it
I support OWS but for the vast majority of Americans it has no significant impact on their lives. Occupy Providence, in my state, is not even an afterthought. We have just passed historic pension reform legislation and OWS was irrelevant to the process. People at work don't talk about it, the news ignores them. So no - this is not a powerful movement yet.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's a movement. It's not a passage of laws overnight. Let me post for you what a movement is....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest

Read that. You'll understand what a protest is for, what it does, how the idea spreads, etc. etc. etc.

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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Not everyone who disagrees with you does so out of ignorance
please stop the gratuitously patronizing insults. I have led a long and interesting life - I don't need Wikipedia to explain the world to me.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I'm not being patronizing. You're confusing a movement with a passage of mass laws to
change your life directly, and you want this overnight, now, yesterday, zip, asap. You're oblivious to what a movement is for, how long it takes (it's not overnight), and how it works.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. No - you are the one that is confusing a nascent, struggling protest movement
Edited on Sat Nov-19-11 06:22 PM by hack89
with one that will have a lasting and significant impact on America. A movement that has a direct competitor which has had more success (talking about the Tea Party).

I know what you want OWS to be - don't mistake desires for reality. The world is a much harder and complex place than that - the good guys don't always win.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. You still have no idea how a movement works. You want overnight change and you're unwilling
to wait for a movement. Perhaps you have a BETTER IDEA? I doubt it, but I'm willing to hear you out if you have a smarter idea. What is your smarter idea?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. You are not getting it - I expect nothing from OWS
they have yet to prove that they will have any impact at all. But right now they are small and struggling - there is no guarantee they will come out on top. Not every movement succeeds.

I don't have a better idea. I will simply continue doing what I am doing - which right now means working with my local party organization preparing for next years elections. If OWS eventually amounts to something that will be good. If they fade away we will continue working as hard as we can to get Democrats in office. Right now OWS is irrelevant to our work.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Of course you don't have a better idea. I knew that from the get-go. You have no ideas at all.
You just like to whine and have solutions served on a platter.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. So working to get Democrats elected is worthless? A total waste of time?
that's how real change is realized - Democrats in office passing laws. I am doing what OWS should be doing.

What do you think OWS is going to accomplish? What will be different a year from now? If you can't answer that question then don't badmouth those of us who are actually doing something. There is an election next year - my better idea is putting Democrats in office.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #49
59. Really. Your method has been sooo effective! (NOT) nt
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #59
73. So OWS will eventually move into electoral politics?
they will take over and make things work? They will pass good laws and elect good politicians?
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. Why not? If it goes that way, will you stop them? nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Owlet Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. Saying someone is "confused" and "oblivious"
sounds pretty patronizing to me. Hack has a point of view. You disagree with it. No need to get into namecalling
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. So wondering what OWS will actually accomplish is a RW point of view? Wow. nt
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Please enumerate any and all progressive legislation passed by the OWS.
Oh, that's right, there hasn't been any yet.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. OWS is not a governing body. That was my premise to Mr. Hack89, that he's confusing
a movement with a governing body.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. He isn't the one confused over who is getting things accomplished.
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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #60
67. Certainly not the Democrats.
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Owlet Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #58
69. OK..I'm trying to understand where you're coming from
You seem to be saying that OWS doesn't have to DO anything: it simply has to exist. Kind of like an ideology doesn't really do anything: it's either believed in or it's not. Is this what you're saying?
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. I'm saying it's a movement. What did you think it was? nt
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Owlet Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Well, I think t's a series of protest events
A movement, to me, is an ongoing process of long duration, with recognized goals and objectives and a recognized leadership. For example, the Civil Rights Movement, the Labor Movement, the Feminist Movement, the Anti-Arpartheid Movement. You get the idea.

Now, you're perfectly free to call OWS a movement if you like. It may very well at some time in the future evolve into a movement under the normally accepted definition. In the meantime, you do neither yourself, nor OWS by association, any good by continuing to treat posters here who disagree with you as though we we stupid. That kind of condescension doesn't go over well, and often has the effect of turning off people who might otherwise support you
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. It began on 9/17/11, and you consider that long duration? You need a chill pill
You and hack take one, will you?
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Owlet Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. There's no talking to you
You're evidently are incapable of reading and comprehending any point of view but your own, and you can only respond to others with insults. You're on ignore.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. I understand you perfectly well. You're against the movement, and you have no other ideas nt
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #83
93. sounds like the DLC
Is pissed that the people have woken up and realize there is NOONE representing them. Rock on, OWS!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Anyone who allows attitude rather than substance to guide their beliefs
is far too shallow a creature to be of much use to anyone or anything.

If you don't like people's 'tone' with you, that's one thing. Deciding on your allegiance based on 'tone' rather than substance is just petty.

I remember someone that said she 'unrecced' threads anytime someone took exception to any unrecs in that thread. That was her criteria for doing so. She could not comprehend that she gave up her will and discretion based on something entirely superficial with no relevance to the OP. She admitted that she would unrec a thread, regardless of its importance even to her, just because someone objected to the thread being unrecced.

'Tone' is an interesting thing. It is not always intended to insult, demean, or deride. But even when it is, anyone who takes exception to it is exposing a weakness of their own. If you are not capable of distilling the substance from the delivery, then you are not cut out to have any disagreement in any but the most academic of forums. It also means you likely can't handle interpersonal disagreements as well. You might have had a very potent point to make with Sarah, but you forewent doing so out of either an emotional response or as an excuse to bail.

In short; If you can't control your emotions, then you give others control of you.

If that is the case, then you'd best ignore me as well. I test emotional control all the time. Sarah is very emotional, but her heart's in the right place.

You?
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Owlet Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #88
108. Huh?
Physician, heal thyself. Request granted

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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #108
110. Not a physician.

And if you really didn't understand that, then your ignorance is appropriate.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #52
63. Facepalm The ignorance is astounding.
How the hell is OWS suppose to pass legislation when the Tea Party/Koch Brothers and the other 1% own all the law makers?
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Smack yourself in the head all you want to.
Then please enlighten me as to how the OWS going to accomplish real change.

Ignorance, indeed. You failed to read the previous exchange.

OWS can demonstrate from now until the end of time without accomplishing getting one single thing changed in this country.

A movement can accomplish change two ways, through force, or through politics.

If they wish to actually change things, one path or the other must be chosen. Otherwise, it's all a waste of time.

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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #66
76. False premise.
One need not be a legislator to accomplish real change.

"OWS can demonstrate from now until the end of time without accomplishing getting one single thing changed in this country."

You missed it. They've added "the 1%" and "the 99%" to the national conversation. That and that alone is a nearly miraculous change, on the order of what Michael Moore did with health care when he released SiCKO.

Oops! Michael Moore wasn't a legislator, either, and he singlehandedly had an entire industry pissing its collecting pants.

"A movement can accomplish change two ways, through force, or through politics."

You forgot the media.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #76
91. The right-wing powers that be have had 30+ years to get us to this point.
It's going to take a while to turn things around. I see OWS as an awakening and a wonderful opportunity for people of different political beliefs to get together and talk about issues. We can all learn from each other. There are many different paths to the changes we all seek. OWS has changed the conversation.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #66
81. You're really asking that?

I know Occulus covered the big part of it, but as for your request for 'enlightenment', the answer is simple; 'The same way the Teabaggers did'.

Difference is, anyone running for Congress with the support of the 99% is two things;

1) Guaranteed to win.

2) A hell of a lot more educated than the teabagging morons.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #66
89. Next your going to tell me Rosa Parks accomplished nothing.
The civil rights movement made no difference at all did it.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
106. Ask Bank Of America if they see it
Ordinarily people would just accept being screwed by banks, after all...what else is new? God knows, they took away decent interest rates on your savings accounts years ago, without a whimper from the public. But something new has occurred, instead of taking it...people spoke up loud and clear. This time, you're not going to get away with it.

What brought about this change? I think it's subtle, but seeing people take to the streets and voicing their frustration about how banks got bailed out and we got sold out, helped. It sure scared Bank of America off, and make no mistake if everyone had stayed quiet, the other banks were more than ready to follow their lead. In addition you had millions of people switch from to big to fail banks to credit unions.

I think OWS is permeating our consciousness through osmosis, the message is getting through, people are getting emboldened, they have finally found a voice.

Election nite 2011....you saw Teabagger bills defeated...in Ohio anti-union, In Mississippi, the abortion bill, in Arizona the proponent of the anti immigration law defeated.

The Teabaggers were very quickly embraced by the Republican party, they had it much easier than OWS does.

It kind of reminds me of Tortoise and the Hare fable, and we know who won that race.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
35. Yeah, pretty excited here too.
Just anxious about how it will play out.

Good luck ahead. To you and all. We might really need it.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
61. Thanks. :) nt
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
64. Sarah, I'm sorry
I'm so sorry you've received such crap for the truth. It IS the most important movement since at least the 60's. That somedon't get it, especially DUers,is just beyond the pale. No OWS hasn't got any legislation passed. We are the 99% and those that pass legislation are owned by the 1%. Don't let them get to you.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
84. What donheld said.
And then some.

Don't let them bring you down,
it's only braincells burning.
Find the ones who're turning
and recognize the signs of the times.

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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Question
"it's apparently happened almost 6 years earlier than the PTB expected"

It's embarrassing to confess my ignorance publicly, but - what are you referring to?
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. It's just a theory of mine.

It's based on the cycles of bubble to bust, Republican to Democrat, and the slow institution of a fascist framework being constructed below the veneer.

It made perfect sense that Obama would oversee a slight economic resurgence that the ruling class would cash in on (like Bush 43's first year in office) once and for all sometime early on in the next Republican President's first term. That would coincide perfectly with multiple catastrophic events happening right around the same time. Namely peak oil (which they have some control over), economic collapse (which they've always had great control over), and drastic climate and environmental change. That would be when they'd finally have to declare 'indefinite' martial law.

That, I believe, was their endgame for putting the neo-feudal state in place.

But, people saw the trends and came out before the other catastrophes, so there is a chance they aren't ready. Add that a Democrat and Constitutional Scholar who could have a healthy conscience sits in the White House, and it's possible the plan is fucked. We'll see.

Of course, I could also be a stark-raving lunatic. There is always that.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
90. I agree with that.
I really haven't been giving him much thought lately.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. he's got Egypt's back, not ours
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. He didn't do anything about Egypt.
His moment will come here. Ultimately, he's proven that he's more on our side than not. But I suppose some people aren't interested in reality.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. WAKE UP
Barack Obama said this of the protests in Egypt;

"I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. He said that
But did he actually do anything?

I've seen quite a few pictures of the tear gas canisters used on Egyptians. They were made here in the US.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. Ummm... that's kind of the point of the OP.

He's not even in country yet. He has to say something soon. We'll see if he's consistent.

Meanwhile, I have absolutely no doubt that no matter how consistent his message is, it will be spun by the haters.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. LOL
get back to us when he is "consistent with his message" :rofl:
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Where is he not?
Aside from people just making shit up, he hasn't changed his tune.
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hedgetrimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
62. that'sthecruz of the matter
arab spring equals dollars. usa fall- equals nothing for the establishment in this country..it's all about the money.
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fostercareinjustice Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. As OWS evolves I think it'll be safe for him to side with OWS. I think he'll HAVE to.
Frankly, OWS is right and many people, I think even a majority, agree with the core arguments that OWS is making. I think it's only a matter of time before it has a substantial influence on our political leaders.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. That's what I'm hoping.

It could be the pin that http://journals.democraticunderground.com/The%20Doctor./65">bursts the bubble.

At that point, it's quite possible the politicians might just realize whose side it is actually smarter to be on. Then we just need to get behind a few legislators with the right ideas about corporate personhood, clean elections, and campaign financing, and it's actually possible to save the USofA.

Is that too much to hope for?
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am 100% behind this
good catch.

:thumbsup:
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. No matter what he does, he IS picking a side. nt
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, best not to piss off Limbaugh and his minions
Keep quiet and sooner or later, they'll be won over. The only alternative is the breaking of the nation.

Uh huh. Got it. Thanks for your input.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. So are you saying that the President should not take a stand
or that he is afraid to or that he should not because he might lose his job??

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The latter, of course...
...but the kind of person who would take a strong stance against the banks wouldn't have been nominated by the Democrats, much less have been elected in the general.

The president has a very real excuse for hiding from this issue, but it's also true that he has been shaped by the system that promoted him.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Then he is a weak person
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
74. American politics doesn't breed for strength.
A truly strong person would turn up his nose at a political career, or might have the gumption to break in on his own terms and reform the system.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. For the most part, I agree.
Either Obama gets berated by the left for not personally going down and standing between the protesters and the police, or he gets pilloried by the right for every single possible infraction of anything they can make up.

Obama is not the problem that OWS is angry about, and he can't CURE the problem either.
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Huey P. Long Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm thinking it'll be #2...and it will be number two.
Edited on Sat Nov-19-11 05:53 PM by Huey P. Long
He should try NOT to endorse or co-opt OWS, but 'steal its thunder', by actions and deeds. Make OWS obsolete. Impotence, corporatism and collusion are its cause.
That ain't happenin' either.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. No, he should not.
He should not attempt to 'make OWS obsolete' for two reasons;

- Such an attempt would fail.

- He'd be turning his base off in a substantial way.
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Huey P. Long Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. I'm not sure if I am communicating clearly, or I think you misunderstand me.
Let me be try again. By making 'obsolete', I also say, eliminate the necessity for OWS. Again it was his OWN (and Party) 'impotence, complicity, and collusion' that has made OWS so needed.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. I vote for #1
No public option? Tepid and worthless
Extending the Bush tax cuts? Tepid and worthless
Guantanamo still open? Tepid and worthless
Justice department activity to reign in Wall St? Tepid and worthless

But it does make for a good campaign slogan, "Who you gonna vote for? Bat-shit crazy or Tepid and worthless?"
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. There's a fifth option.
He could ask the Justice Department to actually do its job. He could not just call for "investigations" but do real investigations with real consequences. That way he comes down on the side of the Constitution, whether he agrees with the message or tactics of the protesters or not.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. +1, this is mostly about justice after all, not right or left n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. I'd like that, but it still winds up in the #4 category as the same scenario
is likely to play out.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. I think you over estimate American politicians, including Obama
I don't believe Obama is a bad person, I'll be clear about that. I'm sure he wants to make it possible for more Americans to live decent lives. He has a good moral sense and understands injustice and opposes it where practical. He has done some good things in office, other times he has fallen short. He is undeniably light years better than anyone the Republicans will nominate.

In a way I'm sure he sees OWS as a possible allie, but I'm sure he also sees it as a rival and potential threat to the power of his presidency. Most politicians have people who they consider rivals within their own political party, even when they think that rival probably sincerely shares some common ground in the way of goals. And they work to make sure that their intra party rivals don't get to steal their thunder.

Politics is in large part about control; control of message, control of timing, control of image, control of tactics, and ultimately control of constituencies. Political leaders are expectesd to deliver their follower's support when the time comes to cut a deal with either the opposition or a major special interest group. OWS is not under Obama's control, and so to an extent I suspect he sees it as, if not an actual threat already, at least as a potential threat to his authority.

I believe Obama wants to make sure that the OWS wings stay clipped at all time, so that it can't fly beyond his control with a message he would rather deliver in a , um, more nuanced way. Sure he understands the feelings behind OWS and has some common ground with it, but it remains in part a rival. It could go further than he wants to go on one hand, and on the other hand possible tactical blunders by OWS could make it harder for him to go where he wants to go if they kick up a backlash. Bottom line, he can't control them and therein lies the threat to Obama and virtually anyone else who aspires to that office.

Beyond that I suspect part of Obama's pragmatism is a belief that every society has warts and that attempting too hard to rid them could cause problems worse than the warts themselves. Translate that into tacit support for the power of the 1% provided they are reasonable in how they attempt to wield it when it comes to the rest of us. OWS is much more radical than that.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. Interesting line of thought.
The Left needs to develop "dog whistles" for communicating with the base while leaving the unwashed hordes in ignorance about what is being said. Then he can say innocuous-sounding things that fire up the hard core.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. Obama ran on repairing economic inequality. If he can't side with #OWS
Edited on Sat Nov-19-11 06:13 PM by EFerrari
his problem is not with us but with himself.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Oh, he can. He just has to be very careful how he does it.

The wrong move either disaffects his base, invigorates his enemies, or both.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. The only solution that does NOT result in things getting worse is Obama 'coming to jesus'
and abandoning his RW positions. 'Coming down on the side of OWS' is meaningless and worthless without substantive and effective actions and policies. Things have the potential to get much worse and a lot more serious.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. Rec'd
I go with #2. Maybe 4 by next October. However, OWS is our movement, not his (much as I love him).
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
38. It doesn't matter whether he does anything to "prove Fox right".
The people who buy that bullshit will do so without any legitimate excuse whatsoever. Rational people want proof. "True believers" don't need it. It is folly to moderate our actions to ward off a response from the delusional. If everything this President does is circumscribed by his fear of an unelected minority, he is useless.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
40. This is a good and thoughtful analysis. Not sure I agree with it but thanks for putting it out there
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. Well, I respect your opinion. Is there something specific
that you don't agree with or need clarification for?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
44. Our politicians do not have to be for or against the movement
to condemn the violence against American citizens exercising their Constitutional rights.

All they have to do is announce that what they have witnessed over the past several weeks, the near killing of two Iraq Veterans, the attacks on the elderly, the disabled and the hospitalization of so many others doing nothing more than peacefully assembling as is their right, has led them to believe that there is a need to investigate what is the cause of this excessive military style force and violence against the people by the police.

And of course they need to condemn it.

Even if you disagree with the cause, there is no way any decent person could condone what has been going on. Yet, there is a deafening silence from our elected officials. It has become clear that the American people need protection now from their own police departments. And the only entity that can do that, is the Government.

The police have become a serious threat to the health and well-being of the American people. Someone needs to stop it.


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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. +1000!!!
Exactly, that is the issue at hand.

Honestly, I could give a rats patootie if Obama 'sides with OWS' as a movement. Really, I think this is WAY bigger than him and hopefully he knows it too. This is beyond rep/dem because the issue is that they ALL are bought & paid for.

The ISSUE is violation of Amendments and Constitutional Rights. Period. and as a Constitutional lawyer, he should at least make some kind of statement to that effect and BACK IT UP with real actions.

OWS is going to continue, we have a very long haul ahead of us, but i still think it is coming faster than many realize because it has been pent up inside us all for far too long as well....
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #44
71. Exactly, and if he says and does nothing, he will also lose all credibility
in places like Egypt, where thugs have already started to kill and maim peaceful protesters Friday.

If he tries to lecture them, they will say he does nothing for his own people so, why should they have to listen to him?

Hence, foreign-policy wise, he has no choice but to do as you say, or immediately lose all credibility to help any victims abroad.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #44
94. Thank you. nt
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gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
56. what Obama could do
I haven't posted on here for a long time. I have been her since 2001 and I want to say what Obama could do; he could say, I hear the voices in the streets! I hear the dissatisfaction! I stand with these folks who cry for all of us. The situation is about inequality and that is a present and vital issue in our country! It is a strong and prevalent trend that is destroying our way of life. I stand by those who want to give the call for fairness. I want to stand by those who hear the call to procure a way of life that offers real and present opportunities for the whole. I do not tolerate militaristic operations against peaceful protesters. The voices I hear in our streets are true and resonant with me into incorporating change in this country. I will not rest until we move into a more egalitarian society. I stand by the protesters and will do all in my power to insure we will address and change policy to insure that all people in this great country will have equal access and equal opportunity to services and jobs that is rightly theirs. I will not rest, I will not overlook and I will champion any cause that promotes a egalitarian way of life for us all.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #56
68. See 'option 4'.
And The Divine save us.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
65. I think this crackdown was timed to coincide with his being outside the country.
Edited on Sun Nov-20-11 12:57 AM by Marr
I think they hoped that they could seriously crack heads and break the thing up, and make it "Old News©" by the time Captain Comfortable Shoes returned.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
70. Everything isn't about Obama. The movement speaks on its own.
And I disagree with one aspect you say. To come down on the side of the protests is the worst thing to do. It's not a good choice maybe politically but not the worst. The worst would be to endorse the brutality that has occured in some crackdowns. He instead could make a statement that economic disparities need to be addressed without mentioning the movement, but talk about deteriating conditions for many Americans and how he thinks it could be addressed.

I know many Obama supporters (no, I'm NOT saying all so I hope this isn't locked) are nervous and therefore are against the "tactics", whatever that means, of the OWS protests. But protests are not about election conveniences to politicians of any stripe and any protest isn't meant to make anyone in power feel comfortable but are a cry for government to address needs. The worst thing supporters can do right now from a standpoint of some of us, is to keep putting the movement down no matter how subtle. This, I think, is especially true given the gravity for many citizens. Honest criticism of events taking place at a given place of course, are what anyone would expect. But defining others on another's terms sometimes can be a double edged sword.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
72. I don't know which number this could be:
Edited on Sun Nov-20-11 06:51 AM by Amonester
If he says and does nothing, he will also lose all credibility in places like Egypt, where thugs have already started to kill and maim peaceful protesters Friday. If he tries to lecture them, they will say he does nothing for his own people so, why should they have to listen to him?

The clown$ on the dark side would then probably try to convince voters that he is a weak president. So he's got no choice but to defend the OWS victims against police brutality. Otherwise, he could jeapardize his reelection campaign if the repukes start using the 'weak' argument.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
75. So in order "not to tick off the far right". . Obama should ignore the 99%
- good one -
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
77. OWS is the one with a dilemma
if they can't convince Obama or any other politician that they can influence next years election in a direct and meaningful way, then they will get nothing more than platitudes. Because every politician's world view right now is filtered through the lens of "will this help or hurt me get elected."

Everyone understands the root cause of OWS's anger - it is the honest anger of a society ignored by their ruling elite. The issue is that everyone has a different solution on how to fix those problems - that is what the election will be all about. The dilemma OWS faces is how do they influence those elections. How are their ideas and demands presented to the electorate and by whom. They fear being co-opted by the political parties - then just who do they intend to carry their message into the political arena? There will be an important election next November - just how does OWS plan to influence them?
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #77
97. They don't have enough money to (directly) influence an election.
That's the whole point: THE.SYSTEM.IS.RIGGED.

No matter how much honest energy they would put into it, I doubt anything would change after Nov. '12, and they already assessed that.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #97
109. So what is the end game for OWS?
what has to happen for you to say they were successful?
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
78. His dilemma is how can he keep from being exposed by the 99%
movement as a right wing mole, working for the rich?
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roman7 Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. i agree with the dr.
lincoln had to shelve the emancipation proclumation untill his generals won a battle so i say win a battle for obama an quit supposing hes not doing any thing. p. s. if you think hes against the middle class your knuts
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
92. I don't think it's much of a dilemma. He'll do number one, which is the safest political bet
The movement just isn't big enough right now to merit his involvement. I understand why the movement wants his support, but he has no reason to give it right now. OWS won't have much effect at all on the 2012 election and that's what Obama is now focused on.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. I don't care whether he supports the movement or not,
but I think he owes it to the protesters to condemn the violence displayed by certain police officers. If arrests were necessary for whatever reason, that's one thing, but I didn't see anyone resisting. It's just wrong to pepper spray or beat people when they're not resisting. It's sadistic and cruel.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Well you could say he owes a lot of things
Edited on Mon Nov-21-11 01:28 AM by RZM
I think he owes it to us to come out in support/opposition to a great deal of matters. But politically, OWS just isn't all that important. I know that many DUers support it strongly and I respect that. But it's very small right now and thus not 'worthy' of Obama's time or energy. I'm sure many people think he should address it, but right now the most politically savvy move is to ignore it.

Remember that Obama got a hard lesson in this kind of thing with the Gates/Crowley affair. That was a relatively minor matter that normally would not have merited presidential involvement. Yet he chose to wade in and ended up worse for the wear because of it. I think he learned his lesson on that one.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #96
98. Polls: 60 percent of Americans say America would be better off
OWS message is more important than you think:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/money/poll-most-americans-favor-wealth-equality
"According to a recent poll by the Public Religion Research institute (PRRI), 60 percent of Americans say America would be better off if the distribution of wealth were more equal."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/25/poll-wealth-distribution-similar-sweden/
Study: Most Americans want wealth distribution similar to Sweden
92 percent prefer Swedish model to US model when given a choice


Google => polls distribution of wealth

Not important?

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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #98
99. Sadly, I don't think that's all that important
The problem with polls like that is that the the conclusions you can draw from them are quite ephemeral.

George W. Bush had majority support at the polls in 2004, yet when he left office, his approval rating was in the shitter. Same thing with the Iraq War. When the invasion started, it had strong support. In 2007 it was a different story. Afghanistan was looking good in the polls in 2001. Today not so much. You could say this about Obama too. He won a strong victory in 2008, but right now he's less popular.

I don't doubt that you can get a majority of people to support basic social justice in an abstract polling question. But to translate that into policy is a very different matter.

And I don't think that 92 percent figure about Sweden means anything at all. Far less than 92 percent of people could place Sweden on a map or even tell you what language is spoken there. I don't expect that anywhere near 92 percent of people have even the most basic information about Swedish society. The number of people who have a strong grasp of Sweden's distribution of wealth is probably closer to the number that approve of Congress' job performance :)
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. You can think the OWS movement is not important, of course.
I cannot prove you're wrong (for now), but I'll say many hope you're wrong, and will be proven wrong one day. :hi:
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. I like to think of myself as a dispassionate observer of most things
I enjoy assessing politics from a neutral perspective. Right now, I just don't see OWS having a major effect on much of anything. It's very small and doesn't seem to be moving any meters much. A year from now, the situation might be different. But right now, it's still a minor thing. That's not at all intended to be an expression of diapproval . . . it's just my honest assessment. If I were to say I think it's a huge deal, I wouldn't be being honest with myself.

I very well could be wrong, of course. I'm wrong all the time. But my sense right now is that OWS won't get a whole lot larger. But I'm no oracle . . . just another poster with an opinion :)

I do believe that OWS will have significance in the longer term. While issues of wealth distribution have always been there in the background, OWS has planted a flag. The movement as we know it will go away, but the concerns behind it will have increased visibility in the future. Actually, my assessment of the Tea Party is similar as well. I don't think the Tea Party will be much of a force 5 years from now . . . it will die even sooner if a Republican wins in 2012. But the sentiments (and people) behind it will still be there. They will eventually manifest themselves in other ways, just as the OWS folks will.

As Ice Cube once said: 'Life ain't a track meet, it's a marathon.' :)
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. It's alright. Help for the 99% "person of the year" if you please.:-)
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2098471_2098928,00.html

(scroll down the page to see the current results)

To vote, select the Candidates item on the drop-down list under the headline. The 99% is on the 'Next' page.

Thanks!
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #102
105. Sorry, I have to go for the Arab Springers
However, I think it's possible Time will put them together and select 'The Protester' as the Person of the Year.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
103. This is the first thing Obama MUST do
is speak to the brutality that has been perpetrated against the OWS protesters. It's beyond sickening and against everything a Democracy stands for. If he can't do that, he's not much of a human being. period. And I think it's pretty sad, that you want to give him an excuse not to, because it's not politically advantageous for him to do so. Isn't it time that someone who spoke so much of "Change" to stand up and speak to power? These protesters are U.S. citizens on U.S. soil in peaceful assembly. I think people have more respect for someone who stands & speaks out for what they believe in, and for the well being of others, instead of someone always afraid to say something people won't like. The former has character and principles, the latter has neither.

And I also don't agree with your assessment that Obama has "no choice" but to work with an establishment of corruption. Look back to the things he campaigned on, it was to "change" that very thing. That's why people put their faith in him, they wanted something different, they wanted a fighter that would shake things up. You say that anyone that doesn't agree that he has tried his best is "ignorant". I beg to differ. May I suggest you take a look in your own mirror after you go over the credit card reform bill, and tell me with a straight face, that was the best he could do. In no way did it curb usury. No way. As far as interest rates go, the sky is still the limit. These were the same banks that got interest free loans, with taxpayer money. Sanders had an excellent bill, one Obama could have championed, he chose not to. In addition this bill permits firearms in national parks-figure that one out. Now I'm a realist, I now know Biden's home state is the one these banks go to, because there are no usury laws & I know Obama voted in the Senate, for no cap on interest rates. But I guess I was "ignorant" at the time & didn't know that, so I voted for him, believing once he got in, he would really fight for consumers. He hasn't.

He's gone easy on these banks. Even now the Atty General of my state wants to investigate & possibly prosecute banks that caused this financial mess with foreclosures. Instead Obama is pressuring him and other state Atty Generals to lay off and make deals with the banks, keeping them immune from prosecution. So no, I don't think he has done his best. Wall Street has not been "reformed" in any way shape or form As for health care, he was no champion for the public option. And since most of the changes that he signed won't take place until 2014, when he will be presumably already be in office, it will not effect him. How it will effect the rest of us, whether or not people will be able to afford mandated insurance, is an unknown. The only ones truly happy are the Insurance Companies. What will now happen with the Super Committee is another worry. How have we even reached a point, where cuts to Medicare, SS and Medicaid are even considered? And why do we even have a Super Committee? Granted thats a change.

And if you can, please explain to me how, with all the supposed debt we are facing, Bush's tax cuts were extended with a Democratic President & a Democratic majority.

Which brings me to OWS. So much has not changed, in the right direction. And people are fed up. They are running out of time and money. And quite frankly Obama was not put into office to help himself, by playing it safe, and not irritating anyone. He was put there by the American people to fight for them. Something I think you fail to realize. This is not about "him" nor should it be, its about the people who elected him. Win or lose, Obama will be fine, he's financially set, the 99% aren't. Whether he backs OWS is inconsequential at this point. If he is too frightened to associate with them, so be it. With him or without him, this movement will continue. I promise you that.

It's just so sad, that this is still all about politics and politicians and whats "good" for them, instead of what's good for the people that elected them. So Doctor, heal thy self, because its seems the more things change, the more they remain the same.








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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
104. Perfect summary.
"...the first thing Obama MUST do is speak to the brutality that has been perpetrated against the OWS protesters. It's beyond sickening and against everything a Democracy stands for. If he can't do that, he's not much of a human being. period."
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-11 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. TY
I was hoping we would all feel that way.
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