IT question re bluetooth scanners at Occupy

[Hepburn]

OK...I have less than -0- IT experience and smarts. Some of us oldies but goodies were gonna get involved with Occupy L.A. and one in our group was told that the L.A.P.D. and other Law Enforcement (L.E.) have some type of Bluetooth Scanner software on laptops and they are getting info on persons there by scanning info on cell phones.

I have no clue on this, but sure as hell would like to know if privacy rights are being invaded in this matter at any Occupy location. Is it even possible to do this???

[FarCenter]

1. Not if you keep your cell phone wrapped in tinfoil

[lbrtbell]

2. How about a helpful response, instead of sarcasm? - n/t

[Hepburn]

4. thanks....

...I heard this from someone who has a son in L.E. So, I am concerned...particularly since we are talking about the L.A.P.D.

[FarCenter]

5. Cell Phone Evidence Bag

http://empandsolarprotection.com/shop-2/soft-sided-faraday-cases-pouches/cell-phone-stronghold-bag/

Every member of LAW ENFORCEMENT, SWAT, SERT and SPECIAL OPERATION entry teams should possess a Stronghold Bag to preserve valuable electronic evidence. In any crime scene, valuable evidence exists within wireless communication devices confiscated from a suspect. Evidence stored on a wireless device can be remotely erased if the device is not immediately secured in a Stronghold Bag.

Why else might you want to shield your cell phone in a Stronghold Bag?

•Your cell phone can be triangulated to trace the exact location of your phone (and you) to within a few feet.
•Hackers can remotely activate the microphone on your cell phone and listen in on your private conversations and important meetings.
•Avoid electronic surveillance from hostile corporate and government hackers.
You cannot make or receive phone calls when using the Stronghold Bag. Turn your phone off before placing it in the Stronghold Bag. Otherwise, your phone will constantly search for a signal, rapidly depleting the battery. If you can, remove the battery from the cell phone prior to using the Stronghold Bag.

[Hepburn]

6. Thank you....!!!!

:hug:

Amazing what can be hacked into anymore!

[MannyGoldstein]

9. That actually *is* a helpful response, though possibly unintended? nt

[Old Codger]

12. Stopped blue tooth also

But it did take two layers of aluminum foil to do it

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Two? No gaps in the foil?

One should be enough.

Puzzling.

[Old Codger]

15. No gaps

Made sure of that before going to two layers, tried it twice to be sure

[MannyGoldstein]

18. You're right - foil is thinner than I thought!

http://summerexplorations.wordpress.com/2011/07/27/michael-faraday-defeats-cell-phones-from-beyond-the-grave-and-more/

[Old Codger]

11. Well

I just tried that idea, took two layers of heavy duty aluminum foil but it did stop the phone from receiving a signal from an incoming call...♦

[Hepburn]

3. OK...

...as in tinfoil hat???

Look, I am in my 60's and the first cell phone I had was about the size of a brick. So...????

[FarCenter]

7. Cell phone that are on are continuously registered with a nearby cell tower

So, for example, the police could get a list of cell phones that were registered with towers near Foley Square.

They could also get a list of cell phones that were registered with towers near Cadman Plaza an hour later.

Merge and sort to find people who marched across the Brooklyn Bridge. Its not perfect, but its a good start.

[datasuspect]

16. cell phones that are *OFF* can still transmit and receive signal/data

you have to remove the battery.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Not sure if you're joking - but you're absolutely correct

A conductor (e.g., tin foil) completely enclosing the phone forms a Faraday cage - no RF can get in or out.

I do this kind of thing for a living, so I hope I'm right!

[napoleon_in_rags]

10. Yes, generally its possible.

Anything is possible with co-operation from the cell companies. Each phone must broadcast a unique id to affiliate it with the network, and inside the internal database that phone company can map that id to your name, everywhere you've been, etc. So if you listen to what unique id each person is broadcasting, and you have access to that internal database, you can see them all.

As far as privacy rights, we just haven't matured legislatively on this kind of stuff right now. SCOTUS was recently debating the legally of police putting tracking devices on cars without a warrant:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/scotus-big-brother-gps/
So that should give you a sense of where the debate is at. Its complicated too, the government doing that sounds Orwellian, until you remember that the cell phone company already HAS all that information on people.* So if we resist it, does that mean that a cop trying to solve a murder can't use it but a tech for the cell phone company can?

* at least they have the technological capability to easily gather and analyze it, I can't speak for what they actually do or don't record.

[FarCenter]

17. 911 service requires by law that the cell phone company be able to locate the cell phone

[ragemage]

14. Some answers hopefully

Most likely it is not a bluetooth scanner they are using. Bluetooth uses the same frequency as 802.11 wireless (2.4 Ghz spectrum) and is usually low power which means they would have to walk among the protesters to get any information. Range could be up to 60 feet or so but that would only be useful for front line protesters. However as others have said here the most likely scenario is they are gathering info on cell phone usage, numbers called, etc. They will have access to the software and hardware necessary to tap into the local cell tower to pull that info.
How can you defeat this? One very simple way. Turn off your phone and remove the battery. No power, no transmit, no problem. For Bluetooth you can turn off the Bluetooth transmitter in the phone. This still allows the phone to be used but if you have a wireless headset/ear piece that will not work now. Wrapping in foil will work but will also stop the receiving of calls. There is no easy way to defeat the cell phone triangulation stuff.
Another factor to consider is that the cops are just doing the usual intimidation, making the protesters nervous by being in the open with scanning software.
Hope this helps.